TruVue Vango - Owner's Thread - Page 3 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 874 Old 12-15-2010, 11:40 AM
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Regarding brightness, anyone ever in Bradenton FL area I can demo the Vango side by side with a new RS50 for brightness comparison. Bring your demo material. Spend a few hours hands on with both machines. I have several screens at hand. 12 foot wide matte white, DCI certified 3D silver and a Black Diamond HD 0.8 2d/3d.
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post #62 of 874 Old 12-16-2010, 01:17 PM
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Alan, please remind me how many lumens the Vango puts out with the color box ( Jason's review has the specs without the box ). Thanks. Craig

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post #63 of 874 Old 12-16-2010, 10:20 PM
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I have the Vango set up with the color box as well. I am still working on it but I am pretty sure the high output light mode works without the color box, it essentially being internally included in the Vango. It will take me a few more days to sort things out, but at 6500K normal gamut, gamma 2.2, the projector is bright on my studeotec 1.3 110 inch D.


Nhey. Please give me a call (240 876 2536) and we can arrange a demo perhaps at your place.

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post #64 of 874 Old 12-17-2010, 06:21 AM
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Mark,
Do you get 12-16 ft. lb on your screen?

Thanks,
Nat
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post #65 of 874 Old 12-17-2010, 06:35 AM
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Haven`t measured yet. But at least that. By eye, a lot more in max RGB color mode.

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post #66 of 874 Old 12-17-2010, 07:18 AM
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Mark is correct you do not need the color box for the extra brightness mode. Anytime you add white which is what that mode does you lose color saturation, the color box adds that color back in.
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post #67 of 874 Old 12-17-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I have the Vango set up with the color box as well. I am still working on it but I am pretty sure the the high output light mode works without the color box, it essentially being internally included in the Vango. It will take me a few more days to sort things out, but at 6500K normal gamut, gamma 2.2, the projector is bright on my studeotec 1.3 110 inch D.


Nhey. Please give me a call (240 876 2536) and we can arrange a demo perhaps at your place.
Mark,

Thanks very much. I will call you to set it up. We actually met a few years ago in Lawrenceville NJ as you may recall...
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post #68 of 874 Old 12-18-2010, 07:54 PM
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There is a lot to grasp with this projector and color box. The menus are the same when the projector is operating alone or with the color box in line. But the color box is needed to insert the 3D lut tables to compensate for room lighting including no lighting, i.e., dark pit. Also I have not yet loaded the revised lut tables. Also, one must use the color box remote and not the projector remote to control the projector box combo unless the two are hooked up by an RS232 cable, then the projector remote can be used as well.

The projector is way bright enough on my 54 x 96 inch (110 inch D 1.78) studeotec 130. This is one very good projector.

But the more I watch this projector, the more I like it.

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post #69 of 874 Old 12-19-2010, 08:05 AM
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I formed first impressions of the Vango when I saw Dormie1360's unit. I am continuing to refine those impressions and I plan to summarize them at a later date. I have owned mine for a couple of weeks.

This morning I want to try to describe another aspect of the Vango which has received no attention to date. It may be the real reason why I like it so much. Before I try, let me say that it projects a fine image. How fine can be addressed by others more capable than I. I have owned three gun CRTs, and D-ILAs and, lastly, LCDs. The Vango is different. I like the images. But, for me, that is only part of the story.

By way of analogy, let me use motors. If you tow race cars like we do in the summer you try to pull with a diesel. Gas is good, diesel is better. I know, my opinion, but common. If you use tractors like we do here on this farm, diesel is the only game in town. When you lean down and kick off a diesel within seconds you relax. Just bear with me on this. It is utterly dependable and its sound is like music. That sense of not being high-strung, not flailing itself to death, and being like a well broken in boot is what Vango seems to do. No registration issues, no noise (John has disclosed my deafness), no lamp strike gremlins, no CRT burn-in, no lamp dimming to speak of. The projector is like my diesels, I start it and I don't get anxious about anything. I just use it. It just works. This is a major blessing.

Some will sneer and claim I am worry too much. We all have our little hang ups. Suddenly I am just watching the movie---grimace if you must, but isn't that what its all about. This one works for me. That is a personal assessment.

Down the line, I would like to see a system diagram that portrays the interactions between the color processor and the projector and the implications of each logic gate. The individual documents are intelligible but I need something to integrate the color box and the projector. I suspect I am not alone in this. I hope that Mark's demo yields some insights and as the owner base builds that we can crack some of the puzzles. As I said previously, this is not a bad desert island to be stranded on awaiting 4K lasers.

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post #70 of 874 Old 12-19-2010, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Regarding brightness, anyone ever in Bradenton FL area I can demo the Vango side by side with a new RS50 for brightness comparison. Bring your demo material. Spend a few hours hands on with both machines. I have several screens at hand. 12 foot wide matte white, DCI certified 3D silver and a Black Diamond HD 0.8 2d/3d.

Alan,

I live in Lakewood Ranch and would enjoy the opportunity to see this comparison.

Please let me know if this is still available to see.

Thanks,

David
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post #71 of 874 Old 12-19-2010, 09:46 PM
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Vlubbers. I find almost the opposite when playing with the Vango and color box. I just don't have a firm handle on what is going on and the many set up options associated with the unit's native gamut and the available normal gamut. One thing is very apparent that I am more aware of the colors in that the color box compensates for the ways one's eye see colors under dark lighting conditions. It will take me awhile and some more conversations with Jim Sullivan, the President of EE.

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post #72 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 04:32 AM
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A screen shot , just for the heck of it. I still don't have the anamorohic lens dialed in yet.


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post #73 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Vlubbers. I find almost the opposite when playing with the Vango and color box.

Mark,

Hmm. Bear in mind that my '2nd impression' relates only to the Vango projector sans color processor. Mine was calibrated to rec. 709 and I am happy with that choice. I have the processor on the bench, but I don't have the software as yet and Jason is sending it to me. My comments about the need to 'flow chart' the role of the two together is just merely a reflection of my history. Other than the memory light on the processor lighting up red I am utterly ignorant.

If you say that the combo makes you less comfortable are you saying that you think it introduces variables and effects not clearly understood as yet and that this makes you less comfortable. If so, such is the nature of a thinking person. If not, I should have locked my keyboard till I had at least five cups of coffee.

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post #74 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlubbers View Post

... no lamp strike gremlins, no CRT burn-in, no lamp dimming to speak of. The projector is like my diesels, I start it and I don't get anxious about anything. I just use it. It just works. This is a major blessing.

Some will sneer and claim I am worry too much.

Many, including me, share that feeling.

I've seen many say they're not upgrading until they can get an affordable LED.

Rationally one can say the cost per lamp hour is reasonable and not much compared to what we lose in depreciation, but I can't help but feel a certain inhibition every time I turn the pj on.

Noah
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post #75 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Rationally one can say the cost per lamp hour is reasonable and not much compared to what we lose in depreciation, but I can't help but feel a certain inhibition every time I turn the pj on.

I'm the same way. Even with my last CRT which takes a lot longer to "wear" than lamps, I felt a little guilty if I watched some mindless TV on it, or heaven forbid, played an XBox game. Still a premium to pay for the LED technology right now, but I really can't fault the image or the "comfort level".

BTW, very funny.

Your question is either so simple that you know the answer, or so complex that I don't.
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Regards,
John

Regards,
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post #76 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dormie1360 View Post
BTW, very funny.

Your question is either so simple that you know the answer, or so complex that I don't.
Thanks

Noah
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post #77 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Rationally one can say the cost per lamp hour is reasonable and not much compared to what we lose in depreciation, but I can't help but feel a certain inhibition every time I turn the pj on.
I just had an idea. Buy a lamp with a 90 day warranty every 90 days and use it. Then you will feeling bad if you don't test the lamp fully before the 90 days are up. I'm half joking, but total cost per year of always having a pretty new lamp could be under $1500 that way (and possibly less with a 180 day warranty) with a lot of these projectors, even if not selling the old lamps for anything. Another way to accomplish something similar as far as inhibitions or guilt would be to buy a lamp warranty that makes you feel like you wasted your money on the lamp warranty if you don't end up using it.

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post #78 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Also I have not yet loaded the revised lut tables.

Hi Mark. What do you mean by "revised"? Are these updated tables from EE or is this something you, the end user, did via the color box's software.

Regards,
John

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post #79 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 10:16 PM
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The lut tables that come with the color box shipped with the Vango have been revised by EE. They are down loadable by the user. If one is using the color box with a non LED projector, still other 3d lut tables should be loaded. When I sell a color box to a non Vango owner, I make sure the non Vango tables are loaded.

Vince. I am saying that there are many more variables that come into play with a Vango over a bulb projector and then with adding a color box. Just the native vs normal color space alone for example. The CTI features. The lut tables used for dark lighting. I am much more aware to color sensitivities of ones eyes for example in dark pit viewing conditions and how the color box makes up for them. Its different than any other projector processor combo I have worked with. So many choices and I spend time looking at them rather than being engrossed in the action I am watching. As I get things sorted out, I am sure this evaluating the image rather than watching will go away.

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post #80 of 874 Old 12-20-2010, 10:59 PM
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Thanks, Darin, but with the screaming deal I got on the RS10, lamp cost would equal what I paid for the pj in about a year and a half.

But the warranty idea is good. If I get the Mack warranty and get one replacement lamp, I essentially get the pj warranty for free.


Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
I just had an idea. Buy a lamp with a 90 day warranty every 90 days and use it. Then you will feeling bad if you don't test the lamp fully before the 90 days are up. I'm half joking, but total cost per year of always having a pretty new lamp could be under $1500 that way (and possibly less with a 180 day warranty) with a lot of these projectors, even if not selling the old lamps for anything. Another way to accomplish something similar as far as inhibitions or guilt would be to buy a lamp warranty that makes you feel like you wasted your money on the lamp warranty if you don't end up using it.

Noah
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post #81 of 874 Old 12-21-2010, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The lut tables that come with the color box shipped with the Vango have been revised by EE. They are down loadable by the user. If one is using the color box with a non LED projector, still other 3d lut tables should be loaded. When I sell a color box to a non Vango owner, I make sure the non Vango tables are loaded.

Vince. I am saying that there are many more variables that come into play with a Vango over a bulb projector and then with adding a color box. Just the native vs normal color space alone for example. The CTI features. The lut tables used for dark lighting. I am much more aware to color sensitivities of ones eyes for example in dark pit viewing conditions and how the color box makes up for them. Its different than any other projector processor combo I have worked with. So many choices and I spend time looking at them rather than being engrossed in the action I am watching. As I get things sorted out, I am sure this evaluating the image rather than watching will go away.

Wow, I am stilling circling the color processor like a cat playing with a ball of string. No perceivable progress and I have the Vango. For non-Vango users to be using the color processor with custom look up tables implies that I have definitely fallen off the back of the bus. But with each of your posts another marble falls into a hole and it makes a bit more sense. I look forward to feedback from the upcoming demonstration. Vince

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post #82 of 874 Old 12-21-2010, 06:23 PM
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I am pretty much decided that I am going to get the color box.

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post #83 of 874 Old 12-25-2010, 10:19 PM
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If I was to use the Vango it would be right over my head. Most reviews say its quiet but there have been a couple that say its louder than expected. Does anyone have it 2 feet over their head?

I dont fully understand the lens shift in the Vango manual. If I have a 66x158screen, how far above the screen can the lens be? If someone can give me that number I am sure I can understand the diagram.
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post #84 of 874 Old 12-26-2010, 07:33 AM
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If I was to use the Vango it would be right over my head. Most reviews say its quiet but there have been a couple that say its louder than expected. Does anyone have it 2 feet over their head?

I dont fully understand the lens shift in the Vango manual. If I have a 66x158screen, how far above the screen can the lens be? If someone can give me that number I am sure I can understand the diagram.
I never hear mine which is about 3 feet behind and 3 feet over my head. But my hearing is attenuated. Not much help to you I know.

The manual on lens shift drove me nuts. I think I concluded that the default assumption for the ranges assumes the lens is centered on the screen. A 16x9 screen. Mine is at the top edge of a 2.35 screen and since I prefer to zoom I must shift the lens by the distance of the black bar. It does that. More, I think so, but I don't know how much.

With the short throw lens, and in the case of a zoomer, the window that the projector can be in can be quite limited. My lens is about 180 inches off a screen 118 wide. If I moved it more than 4 inches forward then the lens would not zoom wide enough to fill the full 118 width. If I moved it rearward more than 4 inches then I could not zoom the 16x9 material to be as short as the vertical height of the screen. About 9 inches of front to back freedom. This works for me but I was startled and this is my fourth theater build-out. If you are not zooming to fit a scope screen than this is not an issue.

The lens shift controls don't seem to have centering detentes. So I ended up looking at where the light was exiting the lens and trying to center that. Then assuming that this meant the controls were centered. Detentes would be easier. I happen to like the straight industrial-style sides. Much easier to align the projector case.

Initially I fabbed up a mount using the 5mm bosses that harbor the feet. Bad balance. I started over and now I use the four 5mm bosses toward the center. Much better positioning WRT the center of density on the projector.

I have used an ISCO in the past and with your screen area you may need to bring all the pixels into play with an anamorphic lens to achieve the desired brightness.

Ciao

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post #85 of 874 Old 12-26-2010, 08:00 AM
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In order to do a zoom from 2.40 to 1.78, you need your zoom lens to have a zoom range of 2.40/1.78, or approximately 1.35. To see if whatever projector you are considering will work, look up the zoom range in the specifications, if not there but where there are throw ratio numbers, just divide long throw ratio by short throw ratio. In the case of the T1 (short throw) lens with the Vango, that gives 2.1/1.5 or 1.40. In the case of Vince's screen, his possible throw range (not considering zooming), would be about 177 inches to 248 inches, or 71 inches. Multiply that by the spare .05 he has in zoom ratio and that gives his flexibility in mount position, .05 times 71 inches, about 3 and one half inches.

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post #86 of 874 Old 12-26-2010, 08:18 AM
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Re lens shift simplified if it says half of screen height, 120%, that gives 60 you 60% of full screen height measured from center for lens shift up, what you would use for inverted machine mounting, the top of the machine is looking at the floor. So that means your lens center can be mounted 10% above the top of the viewable portion of the screen. In the case of Vince's screen, that would be about 10% of 65 inches, or 6.5 inches.

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post #87 of 874 Old 12-26-2010, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Re lens shift simplified if it says half of screen height, 120%, that gives 60 you 60% of full screen height measured from center for lens shift up, what you would use for inverted machine mounting, the top of the machine is looking at the floor. So that means your lens center can be mounted 10% above the top of the viewable portion of the screen. In the case of Vince's screen, that would be about 10% of 65 inches, or 6.5 inches.
OT:Mark, I sent you a PM several days ago; are you checking your pm these days?

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post #88 of 874 Old 12-26-2010, 11:48 AM
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thanks, so for my 66 inch tall screen I have basically the same shift as Vlubbers of 6.6 inches above the screen. I would go with an A-lens for this Pjs based on its brightness along with my screen size.

How would the A-lens affect the throw ratio?

Do I need to keep the throw as short as possible to maximize brightness on a large 1.0 gain screen?

I have noticed that Projector Central does not have this PJ in its calculator. I wonder why?
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post #89 of 874 Old 12-26-2010, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fledwinter View Post

thanks, so for my 66 inch tall screen I have basically the same shift as Vlubbers of 6.6 inches above the screen. I would go with an A-lens for this Pjs based on its brightness along with my screen size.

How would the A-lens affect the throw ratio?

Do I need to keep the throw as short as possible to maximize brightness on a large 1.0 gain screen?

I have noticed that Projector Central does not have this PJ in its calculator. I wonder why?

It dosen't. Calculate your throw range with the 16:9 and the height of your scope screen, which is 66" by 117" and then you can place the Anamorphic lens in between the lens and the screen and it will expand the image out the the scope width while keeping the image height the same.

I kept mine as short as possible , but I am on a 14' wide screen. Not that much difference in size, so keeping it close may be a good choice.

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post #90 of 874 Old 12-26-2010, 06:35 PM
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I assume by an A lens, You mean an anamorphic lens. The two standard lens, one of which goes before the anamorphic lens, is the T1 which has a throw ratio of 1.5 to 2.1 one times the screen width or the T2 which has a throw range of 2.1 to 4.0 times the screen width. By screen width, I mean the width of the 1.78 size screen which can be drawn inside the larger or wider aspect screen you are using. What size is that? 2.35 or 2.4? The 1.78 width would be 1.78 times 66 inches or 117.5 inches. Anamorphics work best at long throw. At lot depends on the size of the throw you have available. What is that?

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