Older higher-end 720p model vs less expensive 1080p model - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 11-30-2010, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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First time post, first time taking the home theater plunge.

I'm having difficulty deciding between two models... what makes this my situation unique is that one model is much older than the other.

Planar PD7150 (released Aug 2006, original MSRP of $6k), I currently own a broken Planar PD7060 and the manufacturer is willing to exchange it with the PD7150 for $700

Or should I choose the newer Optoma HD20 (released Aug 2009) for $800.

I have a dedicated room with full lighting control, but have light surfaces in the room (light gray carpet and very large closet with white doors on the left side of the room). Viewing from a 9' distance on a 85" screen.

I'm looking for the best quality experience possible, is the newer, 1080p Optoma HD20 going to be a better choice over the higher quality, older 720p model?

Thanks
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post #2 of 56 Old 11-30-2010, 12:42 PM
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Speaking only from experience of one who owns a high end 720p projector, I would probably go with 1080 depending on all the normal factors (screen size, seating distance). I have a Digital Projection Titan HD-250 3 chip DLP (720p model) with TheaterScope option (ISCO III) and my screen is 16 feet wide (in scope mode). That is on the extreme end and I would probably be better off going down to 14 foot wide or so. Having said that, I do find myself wishing I had more pixels up there when I sit closer to the screen than normal, 'cause I can see the grid on some scenes. Normal viewing distance (25 - 30 feet) and I am usually quite satisfied. I do defocus ever so slightly. However, given the option I would love to have a 1080p projector in the same setup. But having 3 chip DLP, if I did go the 1080p route, it would have to be another 3 chipper and financially, that just isn't something I can do anytime soon. Just my 2c
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post #3 of 56 Old 12-02-2010, 02:08 PM
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It really depends on the size of your screen and what 2 projectors you are comparing. Of the 2 you mentioned, the Planar has the better picture IMO, but will have a little more visable pixel structure. Depending on your seating distance, this issue may be irrelavent. I've owned many projectors over the years and I learned that just because it's 1080p, doesn't mean it has a better picture. For example, IMO, the Samsung ae710 and Sharp 12000 II through a better picture than my Panasonic 3000 at my viewing distance (12 feet back with 120" screen).

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post #4 of 56 Old 12-02-2010, 02:23 PM
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720 is history. Unless you get it for a song and or it's a temp thing, get 1080. Gees 4K will be here soon enough to make 1080 history. And or 1080 3D.

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post #5 of 56 Old 12-02-2010, 02:42 PM
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Speaking of my experience of owning a high end 720p projector (Sim2 C3X) I would say it's not clear at all that 1080p would be better. Resolution is just one aspect of the image; there are many others that are just as important if not more so.

As a calibrator, I have had many 1080p projectors in my home theater for calibration, and I consider very few of them better than what I have. If you sit where you can see the pixel structure, and it bothers you, then 1080p is required. If not, it's a judgement call depending upon the specific projectors you are considering.

I have an RS50 on order to try out. I expect I'll have to replace my 1.3 gain screen for it to be satisfactory to me, and I'm somewhat concerned if the sharpness will be good enough for me, but we'll see.
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post #6 of 56 Old 12-04-2010, 03:00 AM
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Something like a JVC RS1 will pretty much destroy all but the most seriously high end 720p projectors , the later models would be even less of a fair fight.

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post #7 of 56 Old 12-04-2010, 04:42 AM
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I sold my Panasonic AE3000 to make room for my new RS40. Not having a projector for a month made me look into a cheap solution. I bought a 720p Marantz VP8600 for $320. I must admit, its sharper and HDTV and sports look much better on my Marantz than my Panasonic that I paid 8x the amount for. The only thing that I think it does better is blu ray disc. But not by far, if I had the choice between my panny at $2400 and the Marantz at $300, it would be the Marantz which also have a 4000 lamp life on high power compared to 2000 by the panny.
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post #8 of 56 Old 12-05-2010, 03:17 AM
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It's not a good comparison to use AE3000 imho, as that projector isn't sharp at all.
Quite a mediocre projector overall actually...The AE4000 is as good the AE2000 was supposed to be.
Again imho.

So I perfectly understand you prefer your old High End 720punits.

Instead, I think you need one of the sharper Epsons (if you insist using a LCD that is)
But I think HC4000 is a more interesting projector comparing with as that is a sharp, new budget DLP!
Anyone?
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post #9 of 56 Old 12-06-2010, 11:11 PM
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I had a choice between a hd20 and a sim2 domino d10 I went with the sim2. If you had a choice between a new Toyota or a slightly old Lexus what would you get? The picture will be much better on the used one better processing and internal parts. Unless you have a huge issue with seeing pixels which I see none from 12ft away on 100" screen with my sim2. Good luck!
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post #10 of 56 Old 12-06-2010, 11:22 PM
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I don't want to sound like an ass, but if you're asking about sub-$1K projectors and 720p, you probably should be looking/asking in the under $3K section of AVS for opinions. You'll get answers from people more familiar with PJs in that MSRP price range.

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post #11 of 56 Old 12-07-2010, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
I don't want to sound like an ass, but if you're asking about sub-$1K projectors and 720p, you probably should be looking/asking in the under $3K section of AVS for opinions. You'll get answers from people more familiar with PJs in that MSRP price range.
To be fair I think he is interested in comparing models whose RRP would have put them originally into the higher category. As someone else says I think he's more interested in seeing if he can get an old lexus for the price of a new vanilla toyaota.

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post #12 of 56 Old 12-07-2010, 07:57 AM
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The Infocus IN76 is not a high end 720p PJ, but I preferred sports over the Sony HW10 in terms of rich color and vividness. However, the Sony is smoother and has definitely better contrast when I watch movies.

In terms of DLP vs. DLP, the Mitus hc3800 is comparable to the IN76 in terms of contrast and noise level. The IN76 has no light spill and the color (flesh tone) is even better than the 3800. May even has a tad less RBE for some unknown reason, since they're both 4x wheel speed. 1080p does bring out additional details and smoothness that the IN76 lacks.

Overall, I'll take the JVC RS2 any day but it costs a lot more than any of these, despite the noise and color "accuracy".

Like cars or any purchase, we can only pick our own "optimal" solution.
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post #13 of 56 Old 12-07-2010, 11:29 PM
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The HD20 is brighter in best mode, has better resolution, has a 4000 hour lamp, and is a new model with an HDMI input, plus a new warranty.

I would say the old PD7150 isn't worth more than $500 with a warranty. Without a warranty I think $400 would be my top price.

The PD7150 probably has slightly better color and blacks, but not by much. The new 1080p chips are better than the older ones in many cases.

Go for the new machine over the old for the asking price.
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post #14 of 56 Old 12-27-2010, 09:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

I don't want to sound like an ass, but if you're asking about sub-$1K projectors and 720p, you probably should be looking/asking in the under $3K section of AVS for opinions. You'll get answers from people more familiar with PJs in that MSRP price range.

Since he is talking about projectors that sold new for way more than $3,000 he is in the right place. Many of the people in the + $3,000 threads have owned these projectors. Few in the - $3,000 threads have owned them. A lot of the people in the - $3,000 thread (not all) think that all 1080P is better than 720P and that is not the case. The lens and the processing is just as important, especially if you are talking about 1.5 x viewing distance or more.
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post #15 of 56 Old 12-28-2010, 11:39 AM
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Yep, viewing distance is probably the biggest factor for resolution. I sit at 1.2-1.3 times my screen's width, and I would never go back to 720p.

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post #16 of 56 Old 12-29-2010, 09:44 AM
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Having seen many 720p and 1080p projectors, I think it comes down to personal preference. I currently have a Sharp 12k MK II, one of the best 720p projectors available. A good friend of mine has an Epson Pro Cinema 1080. I've seen both of them in good viewing conditions on similar sized screens and I honestly don't have a preference. The Epson certainly shows more detail on quality HD content, but the Sharp is substantially more dynamic on mixed bright/dark scenes.

If you can, look at both projectors before buying. I don't know much about the 7150, but you may find that the better optics and larger DLP chip of the Planar result in an image you prefer over the Optoma. Your viewing distance is long enough that the pixel structure of 720p is unlikely to be distracting and the benefits of 1080p might not be glaringly evident.

There are other factors to consider as well. The build quality of high end PJs is substantially superior to their lower end brethren. Things like die-cast aluminum chassis contribute to durability in high end machines which are lacking in low end ones. How long will you keep it? Add to that the fact that Optoma has a less than stellar history of building reliable machines.

Good luck, and don't listen to those who say 720p is dead. At lower price points it can be entirely reasonable to give up resolution in favor of other benefits.

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post #17 of 56 Old 12-29-2010, 10:08 AM
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The fact that there is a debate about an "old" high end vs a new low end projector let's us know the wonderful and fast progress that is being made.

Either way, the bottom line is that for less than $1200 you can get a nice 110"+ image that your neighbors with puny 60" LCDs will envy!
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post #18 of 56 Old 12-29-2010, 12:18 PM
 
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I also own a Planar PD7130. Nearly identical projector to the PD7150. It is a good projector, but not near the projector of a Marantz VP12S4 or Sharp 12000 MK II. Projectors like those were built to last. As what I and another poster said, build quality is important to some of us. A projector is not too enjoyable if you are having to repeatedly send it in for repairs.
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post #19 of 56 Old 12-29-2010, 06:24 PM
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Well it looks like I may be able to test this out first hand. Our non-profit is building a video editing suite and will employ an LG CF181D lcos due to it's brightness and ability to accept a native 1080/24fps source (thanks LG!!) and this is a $2499 list price projector. I am eager to see how it compares to my $20,000 plus DPI Titan HD250 720p 3 chipper. I am prepared to be surprised but understand that technology tends to get better and cheaper over time so I will post my opinions and some pics. I don't anticipate the new projector until middle of January at the earliest. I wonder if I will be purchasing a unit for my personal room or sticking with my Titan.
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post #20 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 01:31 PM
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I've been thinking the same thing about the older 720P "high end" units versus the new 1080P units.

For example right now there are some great deals on 3 chip 720P units, Runco vx-2cx, Sim2 C3X, Infocus SP777 can all be had for around $3,500. On the 1080P side you can get an Infocus SP8602 or JVC RS25 (non dlp) for about the same amount.

Are there people who have seen any of these side by side? If so which has the better picture? Is your answer different if it was on a 120in diagonal perforated screen in a partially light controlled room with 50/50 sports to moves?
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post #21 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post
Speaking of my experience of owning a high end 720p projector (Sim2 C3X) I would say it's not clear at all that 1080p would be better. Resolution is just one aspect of the image; there are many others that are just as important if not more so.

As a calibrator, I have had many 1080p projectors in my home theater for calibration, and I consider very few of them better than what I have. If you sit where you can see the pixel structure, and it bothers you, then 1080p is required. If not, it's a judgement call depending upon the specific projectors you are considering.

I have an RS50 on order to try out. I expect I'll have to replace my 1.3 gain screen for it to be satisfactory to me, and I'm somewhat concerned if the sharpness will be good enough for me, but we'll see.
Hey Bob, been a while! I agree with you as you already know and have remained happy with my Sim2. Still, I have also considered the move to an RS50 or possibly the Sony 90ES. I would be very interested in your opinion of the RS50 since we have similar tastes and setups. Thanks.

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post #22 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 01:57 PM
 
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the only 720p projector I would buy over a 1080p projector would be something like a Sim2 3 chip DLP assuming you can find one.
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post #23 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 02:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

the only 720p projector I would buy over a 1080p projector would be something like a Sim2 3 chip DLP assuming you can find one.

There are many 720P projectors that I would take over any of the under 1K 1080P projectors that are out now. The under 1K projectors do not have very many features or adjustments, Pic quality is not very good and many of them are noisy.
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post #24 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 02:54 PM
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I have seen, compared & calibrated many units, I owned a 12k mkII and a Mits HC3800 at the same time and directly compared... the 12k mkII was still over-all superior regarding image quality and the 3800 is considered to be one of the better entry level 1080p projectors. I kept the HC3800 due to being brighter, shorter throw and having a warranty (it worked better in my current set-up) but I miss the image of the 12k mkII. Now if you are talking 3 chip 720p DLP then you'll be spending more than their going rate to equal their performance with a current 1080p model. My only real concern/fear with the older models is warranty, if not for that I honestly would have kept the 12k mkII until I came across something that actually offers better IQ as well as being 1080p (just missed a great deal on an InFocus 8602).

Of course the oldies but goodies are getting harder to find as well .

Best of Luck,
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post #25 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Hey Bob, been a while! I agree with you as you already know and have remained happy with my Sim2. Still, I have also considered the move to an RS50 or possibly the Sony 90ES. I would be very interested in your opinion of the RS50 since we have similar tastes and setups. Thanks.

Hi Ray. I cancelled my order for the RS50 and I'm staying with my C3X at least for a while. I had a temporary urge to go 3D to impress my grandkids over Christmas, but I got over it. If I went with the RS50 I would have had to change out my screen (and do some carpentry work) to get anywhere near the brightness I currently enjoy. My C3X has some age on it, but it works just as good as the day I brought it home. I keep a relatively new lamp in it and keep it calibrated and I'm happy.
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post #26 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 03:09 PM
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I have an ancient Sharp 10K 720p and went shopping for a 1080p replacement. I tried to go "cheap" for budget reasons but after canvassing several HT salesmen and FPs, I decided a cheaper 1080p was not worth the trouble and a decent upgrade needed to include a relatively high end 1080p FP.

I wound up buying new (used to be very) expensive replacement bulb for archaic 720p FP and I'm still collecting pennies for a new JVC.

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post #27 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post

Hi Ray. I cancelled my order for the RS50 and I'm staying with my C3X at least for a while. I had a temporary urge to go 3D to impress my grandkids over Christmas, but I got over it. If I went with the RS50 I would have had to change out my screen (and do some carpentry work) to get anywhere near the brightness I currently enjoy. My C3X has some age on it, but it works just as good as the day I brought it home. I keep a relatively new lamp in it and keep it calibrated and I'm happy.

Good choice! Plus with DLP, its nice not to have to worry about panel aging and gamma drift that LCOS suffers from. Just replace the lamp, and all the colour, contrast, pop is right back with a DLP.

I agree that seating distance/pixel structure is the main factor in 1080p vs 720p.
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post #28 of 56 Old 02-11-2011, 06:25 PM
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Good choice! Plus with DLP, its nice not to have to worry about panel aging and gamma drift that LCOS suffers from. Just replace the lamp, and all the colour, contrast, pop is right back with a DLP.

Panel aging is really still a problem with current LCOS (DILA/SXRD) projectors?
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post #29 of 56 Old 02-12-2011, 05:08 AM
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Sounds like most people are saying that a used 720 can be better but you have to find the right oldie but goodie.

That sounds really hard to do. For example, I would have thought that the Runco vx-2c was a good choice, but if you read the forum, not many agree. Not to mention the lack of warranty problem which is what scares me about Sim2. It's probably safer/easier to just buy a new 1080p and not worry.
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post #30 of 56 Old 02-12-2011, 05:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkumar View Post

Sounds like most people are saying that a used 720 can be better but you have to find the right oldie but goodie.

That sounds really hard to do. For example, I would have thought that the Runco vx-2c was a good choice, but if you read the forum, not many agree. Not to mention the lack of warranty problem which is what scares me about Sim2. It's probably safer/easier to just buy a new 1080p and not worry.

You can get a warranty for any (new/used) projector if wanted.
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