Official JVC RS-50 Owner's Thread - Page 130 - AVS Forum
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post #3871 of 4220 Old 07-13-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rgoldman View Post

Actually the 50 60 and 40 all calibrate 3d. My Isf calibrator used the user1 as a start point and put the glasses in front of the colorometer and then ran the calman.

Hi,

Thanks for the clarification.

Larry
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post #3872 of 4220 Old 07-13-2011, 09:37 PM
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Building my first home theater. Just got a JVC RS50. Will set it up next week. Should I immediately get it calibrated or wait a while. If you recommend I wait, how long?

Thanks
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post #3873 of 4220 Old 07-13-2011, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dough34929 View Post

Building my first home theater. Just got a JVC RS50. Will set it up next week. Should I immediately get it calibrated or wait a while. If you recommend I wait, how long?

Thanks

As a rule of thumb... maybe 100 hours on the lamps to take off the edge and then calibrate.

Then again, you might try setting up the projector, doing a basic calibration contrast/brightness/color/tint, and it you're happy with the image, save the calibration $$$ to put toward purchasing a new lamp down the road.

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post #3874 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 09:27 AM
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Pundits of the forum, I was just about to buy a RS50 when I read the threads saying it is less bright than the RS40. Considering how picky I am when it comes to light output, my concern is this: I currently own a Panny 4000 and a negative gain 120" screen. Throw distance at 18,37 feet. I'm more than happy as good ol' Panny does deliver a crisp and bright image. Now, will I be pissed off at the RS 40 when it comes to light?
Thanks for your wise words.
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post #3875 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcio.carvalho View Post

Pundits of the forum, I was just about to buy a RS50 when I read the threads saying it is less bright than the RS40. Considering how picky I am when it comes to light output, my concern is this: I currently own a Panny 4000 and a negative gain 120" screen. Throw distance at 18,37 feet. I'm more than happy as good ol' Panny does deliver a crisp and bright image. Now, will I be pissed off at the RS 40 when it comes to light?
Thanks for your wise words.

I have both an RS40 and a Panasonic 4000. If you're happy with the 4000 on that size screen at that throw, you won't be disappointed with the RS40. And the RS40 is in a whole other league in terms of image quality. And you get 3D!

Joe Clark

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post #3876 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 11:13 AM
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Thanks a whole lot for your input, Joe. I'll go ahead and get it then.
Cheers!
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post #3877 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 11:21 AM
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One more thing -- I'll be really better off with the 40 than the 50 when it comes to light...?
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post #3878 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcio.carvalho View Post

One more thing -- I'll be really better off with the 40 than the 50 when it comes to light...?

See graphs on pg 115 of this thread.
You may also wish to read Cine4homes X3/X7/X9 comparison review (Data for the graphs on pg 115 came from Cine4Home).

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post #3879 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 11:44 AM
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Thanks for coming in, Geoff. The link you gave me goes to a German review, which Google translated into the wackyest English possible...
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post #3880 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 11:55 AM
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Just read the threads on pg. 115. Very "enlightening" (pardon the pun). I'll be crossing my finges I don't get a bummed bulb and hope to God it goes for at least 1500 hours with no significant drop in light... Sheesh...am I hoping to much? Thanks yet again, guys...
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post #3881 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcio.carvalho View Post

Just read the threads on pg. 115. Very "enlightening" (pardon the pun). I'll be crossing my finges I don't get a bummed bulb and hope to God it goes for at least 1500 hours with no significant drop in light... Sheesh...am I hoping to much? Thanks yet again, guys...

Hi,

Yes, you are hoping too much. It is unrealistic to expect no significant drop in output after 1,500 hours.

Here is a posting from an owner of an RS40, which has more lumens than an RS50. Notice that after more tha 1100 hours the output is down to 239 lumens. For his screen that means that 3D is probably unwatchable regardless of how tolerant his is of low brightness.

JVC RS40/X3 Calibration Thread

RS40's have an initial output in the 800 to 900 lumen range. This lamp was down to the half-brightness level in just 1000 hours. Since he was running on normal (low) lamp mode, that means that the lamp dimmed in one third of the time of the specified life expectancy of 3000 hours.

This of course is only one data point, but not too many owners have that much usage yet. Since we know these lamps are not of the best quality I think it would be wise if we reigned in over-optimism. Even if the lamp met the specified life expectancy, it is normal for even high quality lamps to lose significant brightness by 1500 hours.

Larry
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post #3882 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 12:35 PM
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Bummer. My Panny bulb is 1400 hours and still a beaut! Makes me wonder if the change is really worth it... using the projector as I do I'll be in for trouble...
Thanks, Larry.
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post #3883 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 12:55 PM
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Just to clarify Larry's post. The original lamps have shown to have a large variability in: initial brightness; Lumen output vs time; and premature failure. JVC has been responsive to owners with defective lamps even if they are beyond the 90 day warranty period.

There is a newer lamp, which we all hope performs well, but to date there isn't enough data to see how these lamps hold up over time.

Geof
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post #3884 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by helcio.carvalho View Post

Bummer. My Panny bulb is 1400 hours and still a beaut! Makes me wonder if the change is really worth it... using the projector as I do I'll be in for trouble...
Thanks, Larry.

Hi,

Our eyes become acclimated to a gradual reduction in brightness. I'm sure if you actually measured the out of the box lumens and compared it to the value at 1400 hours it would be down very significantly say 25-30%.

My previous projector was a fairly bright DLP with initial lumens around 1100. Before I replaced the projector with an RS40 the lamp had 3300 hours on it even though the life expectancy was 3000 hours. Ron Jones who is a very experienced enthusiast who frequents these threads visited me and after a brief viewing he politely let me know that he estimated that my output was in the 300s. So I was still viewing in low lamp mode because I had become accustomed to the reduced brightness.

Now that I have an RS40 I took Ron's advice and I purchased an inexpensive lux meter so that I can monitor the dimming of the lamp.

Larry
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post #3885 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Just to clarify Larry's post. The original lamps have shown to have a large variability in: initial brightness; Lumen output vs time; and premature failure. JVC has been responsive to owners with defective lamps even if they are beyond the 90 day warranty period.

There is a newer lamp, which we all hope performs well, but to date there isn't enough data to see how these lamps hold up over time.

Hi Geof,

Thanks for the clarification.

With regard to this newer lamp I have read postings where folks have speculated that the different number series on the lamp represented a new lamp. Is that what you are referring to, or do you have a more authoritative source, i.e. JVC stating that a new lamp design has been released?

Thanks.

Larry
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post #3886 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Geof,

Thanks for the clarification.

With regard to this newer lamp I have read postings where folks have speculated that the different number series on the lamp represented a new lamp. Is that what you are referring to, or do you have a more authoritative source, i.e. JVC stating that a new lamp design has been released?

Thanks.

Larry

Larry,
I have no knowledge about a new lamp design and that is why I said it's a newer lamp, which I believe to be true. They may have made subtle design changes and/or production/manufacturing improvements, or even sprinkled it with pixie dust , but hopefully the "7's" solve "5's" problems!

Geof
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post #3887 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 03:14 PM
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Guys -- all of ye pundits -- I take a bow. Thanks a whole lot for shedding more LIGHT into this delicate matter, which really threw me at first. I'm getting my RS40 in two VERY LONG weeks (I live in Brazil). Will set it up and let you know my feelings (which I'm sure will be oozing WOWs!).
Helcio
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post #3888 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helcio.carvalho View Post

Guys -- all of ye pundits -- I take a bow. Thanks a whole lot for shedding more LIGHT into this delicate matter, which really threw me at first. I'm getting my RS40 in two VERY LONG weeks (I live in Brazil). Will set it up and let you know my feelings (which I'm sure will be oozing WOWs!).
Helcio

I'm not a pundit, of course - just a satisfied RS40 owner. My original RS40 (sent back due to a convergence issue) literally blew its lamp after 270 hours. I'm a heavy user. I believe my second RS40 probably has the same early lamp, because it's really starting to fade, too. I've put significant time on it and it shows. There's no way I'll make it to 2000 hours on this thing. Still, even if the early lamps suck (and they do), this is one fine projector. I love it and I can't imagine going back to DLP or LCD. I think you'll like yours, too.

Joe Clark

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post #3889 of 4220 Old 07-17-2011, 08:27 PM
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Well, pundit or not, you guys were a great help in my decision to go JVC. Honest to God, I've been so happy with Panasonic (since I got my first 1000) that I'd made up my mind to stick to the brand, like, forever. I was waiting for the 5000 to be out (should have 3D on it), but... welll, forever is too long a word for anything, I guess. I know I'll be happy and moving up to the a major league with the RS40. Will surely let you know my thoughts on it. Much obliged, guys.
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post #3890 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 01:35 AM
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Hi guys, a bit off topic but why do lamps dim over time?

Do normal household light bulbs dim over time as well as it is not something I can say I have noticed.
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post #3891 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cossie0 View Post

Hi guys, a bit off topic but why do lamps dim over time?

Do normal household light bulbs dim over time as well as it is not something I can say I have noticed.

I'm not an expert in lamps nor do I understand the physics behind UHP lamps but there are significant differences between a household lamp and a UHP Mercury Lamp. The household (Edison) lamp has a tungsten filament that glows because enough current runs thru it to make it hot. A UHP lamp does not have a filament. It has two tungsten electrodes that do not touch. A arc is established between those two electrodes and this arc in combination with Ultra High Pressure (UHP) gas (mostly mercury) causes it to create a very intense light source. The amount of lumens produced are dependent on the arc gap distance and the pressure of the mercury vapor. As the electrodes wear the arc gap widens causing dimming. The gap widens because the tungsten electrodes wear but the tungsten doesn't disappear....it gets deposited on the inside of the lamp and this tungsten coating reduces the amount of light passing thru the glass and this results in dimming. Phillips adds bromide (IIRC) to help keep the tungsten from coating the inside of the glass and this helps reduce dimming but I not sure if other mfgrs do similarly. One other factor that wears the tungsten electrodes happens when turning the lamp on. Striking the arc wears the electrodes down and is supposedly equivalent to 30-60 minutes of run time. It's best not to keep turning the lamp on and off. I'm sure there are other factors as well but that is beyond my understanding.

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post #3892 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Larry,
I have no knowledge about a new lamp design and that is why I said it's a newer lamp, which I believe to be true. They may have made subtle design changes and/or production/manufacturing improvements, or even sprinkled it with pixie dust , but hopefully the "7's" solve "5's" problems!

Is the number viewable by just taking off the back cover, or do you need to remove the lamp to see it? I was just wondering if it was easy/quick to check which lamp I have.
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post #3893 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

Is the number viewable by just taking off the back cover, or do you need to remove the lamp to see it? I was just wondering if it was easy/quick to check which lamp I have.

I believe the only change is the 5 to 7 in the number you see here. There is no substantial evidence that this is a newer or better lamp in any regard until enough time passes by to see if it lasts longer than the originals.

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post #3894 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I'm not an expert in lamps nor do I understand the physics behind UHP lamps but there are significant differences between a household lamp and a UHP Mercury Lamp. The household (Edison) lamp has a tungsten filament that glows because enough current runs thru it to make it hot. A UHP lamp does not have a filament. It has two tungsten electrodes that do not touch. A arc is established between those two electrodes and this arc in combination with Ultra High Pressure (UHP) gas (mostly mercury) causes it to create a very intense light source. The amount of lumens produced are dependent on the arc gap distance and the pressure of the mercury vapor. As the electrodes wear the arc gap widens causing dimming. The gap widens because the tungsten electrodes wear but the tungsten doesn't disappear....it gets deposited on the inside of the lamp and this tungsten coating reduces the amount of light passing thru the glass and this results in dimming. Phillips adds a bromide (IIRC) to help keep the tungsten from coating the inside of the glass and this helps reduce dimming but I not sure if other mfgrs do similarly. I'm sure there are other factors as well but that is beyond my understanding.

Very nice summary.

It's also important to note that on/off cycles (especially igniting the arc while the bulb is still hot) are in many ways more important to wear/dimming than the total hours.

Planning your viewing so that you can keep the PJ on instead of turning it off several times between movies/shows, as well as making sure that you let it cool down completely before turning it on again (not just the minute or so that the fan runs), can help extend the bulb life. I'm only at around 180H on my current bulb, but so far it has been pretty consistent with it's lumens. Not sure how much of that has to do with the above, vs the luck of the draw in getting a good lamp.
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post #3895 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

Very nice summary.

It's also important to note that on/off cycles (especially igniting the arc while the bulb is still hot) are in many ways more important to wear/dimming than the total hours.

Planning your viewing so that you can keep the PJ on instead of turning it off several times between movies/shows, as well as making sure that you let it cool down completely before turning it on again (not just the minute or so that the fan runs), can help extend the bulb life. I'm only at around 180H on my current bulb, but so far it has been pretty consistent with it's lumens. Not sure how much of that has to do with the above, vs the luck of the draw in getting a good lamp.

I solved that problem by picking up this little LED pocket projector. It puts out a solid 300 lumen (my RS50 is down to 360) and works perfect with my HP screen. I use it mainly for quick on/off TV shows, kids shows, etc. This way I can save the precious JVC lamp hours for critical viewing or 3D.

It looks better than most would think for it's size and also has near dead-on greyscale calibration out of the box.


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post #3896 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

This way I can save the precious JVC lamp hours for critical viewing or 3D.

Minor comment, but I think it's the "precious JVC power on's" that are actually more a factor than the "precious JVC lamp hours"... at least to some extent. From what I understand, igniting the arc between the electrodes causes more wear than letting it run after it's been ignited.

I'm sure there's a point at which it shifts the other way, IE you wouldn't want to just put the PJ on "hide" for 8 hours at a time (extreme example). But somewhere in the middle there is a balance between on/off vs hours. The important part is to understand that it's not just hours that we should worry about. For example, if you're watching two 60 minutes shows and turn the PJ off for 15 minutes between them (120 total "on" minutes), you're probably causing more wear on the bulb than if you just let it run for 135 minutes.
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post #3897 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

Minor comment, but I think it's the "precious JVC power on's" that are actually more a factor than the "precious JVC lamp hours"... at least to some extent. From what I understand, igniting the arc between the electrodes causes more wear than letting it run after it's been ignited.

I'm sure there's a point at which it shifts the other way, IE you wouldn't want to just put the PJ on "hide" for 8 hours at a time (extreme example). But somewhere in the middle there is a balance between on/off vs hours. The important part is to understand that it's not just hours that we should worry about. For example, if you're watching two 60 minutes shows and turn the PJ off for 15 minutes between them (120 total "on" minutes), you're probably causing more wear on the bulb than if you just let it run for 135 minutes.

my point is, each and every hour of the 2011 JVC's models is a costly hour considering the potential for early dimming. If the lamps were more reliable, I wouldn't feel as guilty turning it on for a few hours just to watch TV.

I am envious of the LED owners like the Vango that can just turn them on / off whenever they feel like it. That's what I can do with this little 720P LED wonder, I don't even think about. Turn it on to watch something for 22 minutes, then turn it off.

hopefully one day JVC will lead the LCOS market with an LED light engine in the next few years. Someone is going to do it at a reasonable price (under 7k market), who will it be though.
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post #3898 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

hopefully one day JVC will lead the LCOS market with an LED light engine in the next few years. Someone is going to do it at a reasonable price (under 7k market), who will it be though.

Yeah, I'm keeping an eye out for that too, but I suspect it will be a while.

I'm not normally the type to upgrade things frequently though. For example, the RPTV that my RS40 replaced was a 2004 model. So, my intention is to hold on to the RS40 for quite a while. Hopefully, by then LED will be a more viable option.
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post #3899 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

Minor comment, but I think it's the "precious JVC power on's" that are actually more a factor than the "precious JVC lamp hours"... at least to some extent. From what I understand, igniting the arc between the electrodes causes more wear than letting it run after it's been ignited.

I'm sure there's a point at which it shifts the other way, IE you wouldn't want to just put the PJ on "hide" for 8 hours at a time (extreme example). But somewhere in the middle there is a balance between on/off vs hours. The important part is to understand that it's not just hours that we should worry about. For example, if you're watching two 60 minutes shows and turn the PJ off for 15 minutes between them (120 total "on" minutes), you're probably causing more wear on the bulb than if you just let it run for 135 minutes.

From what I've read the number is between 30-60 minutes. Striking the arc does wear the electrodes down and is supposedly equivalent to 30-60 minutes of run time. Personally I turn my pj on no more that once per evening. If I leave the theater I leave the projector run unless I am thru for the night.

I'll go back an update my previous post.

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post #3900 of 4220 Old 07-18-2011, 12:35 PM
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If this has already been posted sorry, could not take the time to read all of the replies. Seeing this is an issue with the RS50 was what we were looking for

We have a customer having this issue with his RS50. Rep had suggested cleaning the lamp window input.

Waiting for lamp to arrive so we can try this first.Attachment 217780

 

JVC RS Series low light output lamp window cleaning.pdf 388.005859375k . file
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