Official JVC RS-50 Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

Folks,

I am trying to make a decision on where to mount the RS50 as I do not have a dedicated theater, I need some advice on throw ratio's with this projector and distance from the screen. I am trying to maximize my scope space and thus far I've come up with a 1.99x Zoom at 14ft for 2.35:1 on a 133" diagonal.

I have not factored in what an A-lens will add to the throw and whether this would result in an acceptable picture. I understand that the focal point may be an issue here, but I'd like to hear whether anyone thinks I am better of moving the projector back or getting a smaller screen. The wife factor is limiting the aesthetics of the projector placement and I'm not sure I can go back to the well after convincing her to let me paint the ceiling black!

with an anamorphic lens base your throw distance on a 16x9 screen. with the lens in place your image width will increase by 1.33%.
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post #542 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

The display is primarily responsible for ghosting. The only change of state for DLP pixels is whether they're tilted so that they reflect light to the screen. DLP is far faster than LCD, plasma or LCoS at removing the last frame from the screen - and it's that "after image" that is the ghost that we see. I've seen a couple of instances of rear projection DLP ghosting, but I suspect that was because of a poor viewing environment. When Deja Vu and zombie10k tried to find ghosting on their Acer DLP projectors with test images, they found none. Bad timing with the shutter glasses can cause ghosting, but I suspect that's quite rare compared to the ghosting caused by the display itself.

This is just conjecture on my part, but I suspect that the warm-up period necessary for the JVCs to show less ghosting is because the chips change state faster after they've heated up. If true, it would seem to imply that they show 2D motion better after warm up, also. JVC already acknowledges that color fidelity increases after the first few minutes. We just don't notice these things as much as ghosting.

Maybe we should crack the case and install one of these to get to an optimal state right away...

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-1153-Hand.../dp/B000BOABS6

But even Avatar (you're familiar with that title, right ) looks great right from the start. Still, your theory sounds plausible...
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post #543 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Maybe we should crack the case and install one of these to get to an optimal state right away...

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-1153-Hand.../dp/B000BOABS6

But even Avatar (you're familiar with that title, right ) looks great right from the start. Still, your theory sounds plausible...



I think Avatar looks great because Cameron knows what kind of displays are out there right now, and he worked very hard to minimize ghosting on them. He's not finished innovating with 3D, either, and I think he'll be responsible for many more advances in the technology. I may not think the Avatar story is the best one ever told, but there's no doubt in my mind how bright a guy James Cameron is. He knows exactly what he's doing.

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post #544 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

If you really want to find out where the problem is located you'll want to run tests like Geof. First replay the scenes (probably a few minutes before to a few minutes after) that caused the problem. If the problem has gone away, then other testing may not help - you would be chasing an intermittent ghost.

If the problem does reoccur, then try the same section again but just have the PS3 connected directly to the RS50 with different HDMI wiring. If the problem then reoccurs you have eliminated the Duo and the HDMI wiring. If it doesn't occur then suspect the Duo or the HDMI wiring. My experience is that HDMI wiring can cause what you saw, although usually for longer distance runs (> 25 ft / ~8 m).

Narrowing down between the PS3 and the RS50 would be more difficult. The best way would be to try a different 3D BD player and see if the problem reoccurs.

Either way, you're a long way away from having to worry about the RS50 and HDMI is a very unforgiving cable standard when a problem does occur. A single unit with a problem doesn't mean there is a trend.

I appreciate your response.

I did start a process of elimination today, and so far the indications are with the short HDMI cable from the PS3 to the Duo.

Firstly, it does only happen when its hot. So I closed the door and let the room warm up more than normal. I then watched a different disc as I knew the problem does not re-occur at the same scene. Sure enough about 50 minutes in, I had a complete loss of sync. I noticed the surround amp also re-sync. I then tried to replicate by pulling the HDMI plug out from the Duo to the projector. It did not cause a sound re-sync. Plugging the HDMI cable back in caused the DUo to crash (this was repeatable). Another good sign, because if the RS50 was doing it, then it would probably cause the Duo to crash as well. I then tried removing and re-inserting the HDMI cable for the PS3, which did result in a resync of sound despite using the optical. The PS3 was actually paused at this point, and another loss of re-sync happened while I was trudging around the room looking for another HDMI cable...possibly triggered by vibration. I then replaced the short HDMI cable run and so far I have not had a repeat, but it is early days yet.

All indications point to it NOT being the RS50/X7 thank goodness. I think I just got a bit paranoid after Geof's experiences!! Thank you for bearing with me
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post #545 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

So am I reading you correctly that pretty much all the reports of zero ghosting using these 720p dlp projectors is iin conjunction with an htpc and a software player? Does anyone have experience with a standalone 3d br player with these dlp projectors?

conversely, does the same htpc setup, when connected to a jvc, then exhibit some ghosting?

Thanks

I have run a ton of 3D content through the HTPC -> Acer 5360 and also HTPC -> RS40, using the same exact software. In this case, I don't think the source player has any effect on the ghosting.

I turned on the Acer last night to go through a few movies, it is remarkable how there is just no ghosting to be seen. I have gone to the most difficult high contrast scenes, and it's just not there.

going back to the JVC, you can't miss it in some of these scenes, like the title screen in Alice 3D. I have also A/B between the HTPC and my Samsung 7900 BD player, imo they look nearly identical and can't distinguish any differences in ghosting.

having said that, it's not going to distract me enough to get through a movie. The other advantages over the Acer (no RBE, better res / sharpness / color / contrast) stand out and make for a decent 3D viewing experience.
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post #546 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post


All indications point to it NOT being the RS50/X7 thank goodness. I think I just got a bit paranoid after Geof's experiences!! Thank you for bearing with me

I know I was sure disappointed to find out it was the pj.....a pj with good convergence no less....drats...

One thing I did not check that I probably should have is the component input. If the breakup issues I was having also occurred with the component inputs that would have been most telling.

In your case I would tend to think the cable is not at fault because they should be very insensitive to temperature change. Nonetheless I'm confident you'll sort it out!!

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post #547 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Anyone out there using an Oppo 93 with the RS50:

Can someone recommend how Deep Color should be set on the player, (36bit, 30bit, 30bit(dithered), off pr off(dithered)??

Thanks and Happy Holidays to all my RS50 bruvah's!!

Kevin

BUMP -

I know with Xmas and all this may have been missed (or maybe it's just me!) BUT . . .

Could someone with an Oppo or just a good understanding of Deep Color respond please?

Thanks!
Kevin

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post #548 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 08:47 AM
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I have the same question. I have the Oppo 93 and the RS50 and have no idea where to set that either. If anyone could chimne in we would appreciate it. Kevin, did you try the Oppo thread? I Haven't had the time to read alot of it due to my mom having a hip replacement, so Kevin if you find anything out could you either post it here or private message me? Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

BUMP -

I know with Xmas and all this may have been missed (or maybe it's just me!) BUT . . .

Could someone with an Oppo or just a good understanding of Deep Color respond please?

Thanks!
Kevin

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post #549 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 08:49 AM
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+1

Would like to know myself (RS50)

Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

BUMP -

I know with Xmas and all this may have been missed (or maybe it's just me!) BUT . . .

Could someone with an Oppo or just a good understanding of Deep Color respond please?

Thanks!
Kevin


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post #550 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 08:51 AM
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I just left it on 30 bit dithered but I don't think it matters because I don't think there are any deep color sources yet.

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post #551 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 09:01 AM
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Anyone have thoughts on a hard protective case for the JVC glasses? at ~$150 a pop, I think it's warranted. The glasses are pretty big so I'm curious if anyone has considered a good third party option.

I'm thinking these might do the trick..

http://www.amazon.com/EXTRA-LARGE-BL...ref=pd_sbs_a_6

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post #552 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I just left it on 30 bit dithered but I don't think it matters because I don't think there are any deep color sources yet.

I would have thought 36-bit dithered would be the optimum. There are no deep colour sources but it is supposed to "dither" the extra depth out of a normal blu-ray in that mode.

Personally I think you will find it almost impossible to see any difference, 36-bit dithered is probably the optimal.

Note that handshaking via HDMI can be slower with deep colour enabled.
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post #553 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Anyone have thoughts on a hard protective case for the JVC glasses? at ~$150 a pop, I think it's warranted. The glasses are pretty big so I'm curious if anyone has considered a good third party option.

I'm thinking these might do the trick..

http://www.amazon.com/EXTRA-LARGE-BL...ref=pd_sbs_a_6

Sheese...189 a pop and they don't supply a protective case with them!
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post #554 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I would have thought 36-bit dithered would be the optimum. There are no deep colour sources but it is supposed to "dither" the extra depth out of a normal blu-ray in that mode.

Personally I think you will find it almost impossible to see any difference, 36-bit dithered is probably the optimal.

Note that handshaking via HDMI can be slower with deep colour enabled.

I can assure you all that the best settings for this features depends individually by your actual "Chain"

I found at first on my old chain ( Oppo 83 Standard + RS20 ) the best settings for DeepColor in 30bit NO dithering ( 36bit was a bit too smooth and image lost in "porosity" ).
Then .. in my Actual Oppo 83SE Nuforce Edition + RS35/HD990 trying that setting found it was better to set the Deep Color to OFF ...
So, IMHO, All depends by devices in chain and your tastes/expectations
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post #555 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

BUMP -

I know with Xmas and all this may have been missed (or maybe it's just me!) BUT . . .

Could someone with an Oppo or just a good understanding of Deep Color respond please?

Thanks!
Kevin

In the past, Jeff Meier has indicated to me to keep deep color off, as it either does nothing or can introduce subtle artifacts. Don't know if this advice still stands with the latest incarnations, but given there are no deep color encodes (that I'm aware of), perhaps just leave it off...
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post #556 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Anyone have thoughts on a hard protective case for the JVC glasses? at ~$150 a pop, I think it's warranted. The glasses are pretty big so I'm curious if anyone has considered a good third party option.

I'm thinking these might do the trick..

http://www.amazon.com/EXTRA-LARGE-BL...ref=pd_sbs_a_6

I'd like to find a smaller, cheaper version of this kind of thing...

http://www.slstoredisplays.com/Prod-...splay_Case.htm
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post #557 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

In the past, Jeff Meier has indicated to me to keep deep color off, as it either does nothing or can introduce subtle artifacts. Don't know if this advice still stands with the latest incarnations, but given there are no deep color encodes (that I'm aware of), perhaps just leave it off...

There never will be any deep color blu-rays.

So the players are adding features to interpolate it instead. As Highlander pointed out...this has variable results.

In my own personal experimentation with the Oppo I struggled to see a difference. With my Sony S5000ES which also does interpolation, I actually find it fractionally better.
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post #558 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I would have thought 36-bit dithered would be the optimum. There are no deep colour sources but it is supposed to "dither" the extra depth out of a normal blu-ray in that mode.

Personally I think you will find it almost impossible to see any difference, 36-bit dithered is probably the optimal.

Note that handshaking via HDMI can be slower with deep colour enabled.

IIRC, non-deep color is 8 bits. If the player is in source direct mode I think it sends out those 8 bits unaltered (ie, what's on the disc is what's sent out of the player, there is no data manipulation). So, in this case deep color is irrelevant. In the case where there is some processing occurring (such as black level, brightness, sharpness, noise reduction, etc) the 8 bit data off the disc is used but due to the processing there are extra data bits. I would surmise that this gets truncated back to 8 bits if deep color is turned off. I would also surmise that the extra bits are not truncated when deep color is selected. In reality, there is only so much "extra information" (ahem) in those extra bits.....what is relevant is to avoid truncation errors so instead of truncating the data at 8 bits, I chose 10 bits. Truncating to 12 bits, I think, is not really buying anything more....those extra bits don't contain more information: there is no upsampling or interpolation occurring. Dithering helps reduce banding and whatnot so it seems desirable. So, 30 bit dithered made sense to me....Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it. But I could be wrong...

Geof
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post #559 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I'd like to find a smaller, cheaper version of this kind of thing...

http://www.slstoredisplays.com/Prod-...splay_Case.htm

Much, much cheaper.....

Geof
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post #560 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Much, much cheaper.....

I said I'd like to find a smaller, cheaper version of that...
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post #561 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 11:03 AM
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I said I'd like to find a smaller, cheaper version of that...

Yes, I understand.

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post #562 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 11:15 AM
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What about a padded dry box, like Otter and Pelican?

If you have a rack, a padded rack mount drawer from Middle Atlantic.
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post #563 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

What about a padded dry box, like Otter and Pelican?

If you have a rack, a padded rack mount drawer from Middle Atlantic.


What about a nice quality string bag with a JVC logo on it... wait... oh yeah...

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post #564 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 12:52 PM
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Anyone out there using an MX series URC remote that can point me in the right direction for coding the RS50 to my MX-850?

Are the RS35 codes the same?

Thanks in advance!
Kevin

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post #565 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

IIRC, non-deep color is 8 bits. If the player is in source direct mode I think it sends out those 8 bits unaltered (ie, what's on the disc is what's sent out of the player, there is no data manipulation). So, in this case deep color is irrelevant. In the case where there is some processing occurring (such as black level, brightness, sharpness, noise reduction, etc) the 8 bit data off the disc is used but due to the processing there are extra data bits. I would surmise that this gets truncated back to 8 bits if deep color is turned off. I would also surmise that the extra bits are not truncated when deep color is selected. In reality, there is only so much "extra information" (ahem) in those extra bits.....what is relevant is to avoid truncation errors so instead of truncating the data at 8 bits, I chose 10 bits. Truncating to 12 bits, I think, is not really buying anything more....those extra bits don't contain more information: there is no upsampling or interpolation occurring. Dithering helps reduce banding and whatnot so it seems desirable. So, 30 bit dithered made sense to me....Well that's my story and I'm sticking to it. But I could be wrong...


Thanks to everyone for the input. Guess I'll just do nothing and wait for Jeff to arrive this March!

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post #566 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Anyone out there using an MX series URC remote that can point me in the right direction for coding the RS50 to my MX-850?

Are the RS35 codes the same?

Thanks in advance!
Kevin

For the most part, yes, they work. But I also used the Remote Control Guide (v1.3) to implement functions that aren't in the RS35 list.

Geof
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post #567 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

For the most part, yes, they work. But I also used the Remote Control Guide (v1.3) to implement functions that aren't in the RS35 list.

Thanks Goeff, but are you talking about something I can use with an IR command? I use the URC software and short of learning everything into the MX-850 I'm not sure how this helps me.

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post #568 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Thanks Goeff, but are you talking about something I can use with an IR command? I use the URC software and short of learning everything into the MX-850 I'm not sure how this helps me.

The JVC Remote Control document defines a bunch of IR commands that are not on the JVC remote -- unfortunately you cannot learn them. You have to make them. No sweat though, it's easy.

The document lists ASCII codes for a lot of useful [direct] commands and those ASCII codes need to be converted to Hex. The Remote Control document describes this process (see page 19). You can use MakeHex (a Windows program) or, better yet, here is a second JVC document containing all of the hex codes. Once you have the Hex codes you can use the URC software to convert it into a command the URC remotes understand (actually I'm not sure about the MX850 but the MX900 software has a "Universal Browser" tool that allows you to work with hex codes directly).

I've implemented a lot of the IR commands defined in the Remote Control Document and they work as advertised.

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post #569 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 06:06 PM
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Thanks Geoff.

It was just as easy to recode the RS35 to the RS50. So if anyone needs the .mxf file on an URC device I can send it to you.

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post #570 of 4220 Old 12-29-2010, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Anyone have thoughts on a hard protective case for the JVC glasses? at ~$150 a pop, I think it's warranted. The glasses are pretty big so I'm curious if anyone has considered a good third party option.

I'm thinking these might do the trick..

http://www.amazon.com/EXTRA-LARGE-BL...ref=pd_sbs_a_6

I just measured the glasses and we would need a case that 7x3x2"

I love the idea though!

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Richter Family 3D Theater  

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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