Official JVC RS-50 Owner's Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 4220 Old 01-17-2011, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post

Greetings,

I may have been the first one to report the "HDMI Hanging issue" I'm not sure (it was during my first few days of having it before X-Mas). Switching inputs/resolutions etc. was problematic as I coudn't consistently get the RS50 to synch with my Anthem AVM50v.

I tried several things after which I decided to try setting the JVC's HDMI color space setting from Auto to YCRCB 4:4:4. I did the same in the AVM50v.

I haven't had a problem since. Handshaking between the AVM50v (HDMI 1) as well as my Samsung BD-C7900 3D Blu-ray player which is connected directly to the projector (HDMI 2) has been smooth.

I am not sure if this will work for everyone but it is food for thought and worth a shot.

Regards,

Anyone try this with a HTPC in the mix? I'm going to try it later today. My RS40 hasn't hung during input changes, but I do get an automatic switch by my computer's video card from/to 24p/60p as I switch inputs on the Octava 4x4 matrix switcher. It's the one troubling thing about my setup. It's fixable, but it sometimes requires some Octava switching to do so.

It's beginning to sound to me like the computer's video card is responding to the display it's connected to (via EDID?), and as I bring displays with different settings into the mix, it adjusts video output as needed to match the displays' capabilities.

This is probably the source of the frequent problems with my ATI video cards, as I switched back and forth among the RGB and YCrCb "pixel format" settings in CCC. It's just one more reason that I need a firm grasp of this whole color space issue. As long as the RS40 doesn't have problems with any of my sources when set to YCrCb, it might solve my issues, too. They're not as severe as having the projector hang, but they're annoying.

Edit: I really didn't understand how much a computer's video card communicates dynamically with display devices. As I go from using the the JVC with my HTPCs to my everyday PC monitor (a 32" Sharp LCD panel), the video card has to adjust its output automatically so that it can communicate with the 32" monitor - which has no 24p capability. Apparently, the RS40 has no problem with any type of RGB or YCrCb signal type that I throw at it, if it's in "Auto" mode. It may take a few seconds to resync, but it works. When I switch to the Sharp LCD for that computer, and the computer was outputting 24p, the computer has to change its display rate.

This may also be the source of the bug with my new nVidia card, where it sometimes switches automatically to 24p (though I still don't get that) and sometimes it won't let me reset from 24p to 60p in the nVidia control panel. This specific topic, though probably related, is probably more appropriate for the other thread.

If the less capable Sharp LCD monitor weren't in the mix, life would probably be a lot simpler.

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post #902 of 4220 Old 01-17-2011, 02:25 PM
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[quote=alk3997;19842430]...So far, I'm inclined to agree that the problem occurs when unexpected HDMI responses are received by the RS50. In other words its error handling routines are not robust. Keep bad HDMI outputs from getting to the RS50 and everything is OK. Unfortunately there are a number of ways to generate bad HDMI outputs...

Makes sense. What are the types of things then that cause unexpected HDMI responses? I don't think I'd be doing anything too fancy...

Here is my usage scenario:

a) Comcast STB outputting 720p, 1080i, or 1080p/24 via HDMI to AVR

b) PS3 outputting its typical HD resolutions via HDMI to AVR

c) HDMI 1.4 #D Blu-ray player such as Samsung or Sony outputting 1080p/24 (but possibly 1080p60 during menus, loading screens etc) via HDMI to AVR.

All three of the above sources would be feeding my Yamaha A2000 with processing turned off, and switched by the AVR out to HDMI 1 only on the pj (no changing HDMI inputs on the RS50).

In this scenario how likely am I to hit this bug?
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post #903 of 4220 Old 01-17-2011, 04:43 PM
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Sorry if this question has been asked before but I have searched the forum and can't find the answer. Does anyone know where to find the screen adjust settings for my particular screen? Stewart firehawk G3.
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post #904 of 4220 Old 01-17-2011, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggumsmax View Post

Sorry if this question has been asked before but I have searched the forum and can't find the answer. Does anyone know where to find the screen adjust settings for my particular screen? Stewart firehawk G3.

http://www.jvc.eu/dla-x/screen_ajustment.html

There are tabs for the X3/RS40 and a more exhaustive one for the 50/60/X7/X9

If you are using Stewart FH G3

A for X3/RS40
74 for RS50/60/X7/9
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post #905 of 4220 Old 01-17-2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

**update** Here are the RS50 calibrated pics using the WOW disc and all BASE settings (no special color profile nor gamma (normal lamp w/ -5 on iris):






-

So now that I've had a chance to look at both pics (HP vs.non-HP) which one would you choose? I realize there's a bias on camera differences but...

===================
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTonik
Jaw? Meet floor.

Displaying Disney's Calibration Disc via a 106" Da-Lite High Power 2.4. Default settings on Cinema.


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post #906 of 4220 Old 01-17-2011, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post


http://www.jvc.eu/dla-x/screen_ajustment.html

There are tabs for the X3/RS40 and a more exhaustive one for the 50/60/X7/X9

If you are using Stewart FH G3

A for X3/RS40
74 for RS50/60/X7/9

Thanks for the info. Seems like firehawk isn't the best for 3d, well get another screen probably when budget permits. Always have a harder time picking out screens then projectors for some reason
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post #907 of 4220 Old 01-17-2011, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggumsmax View Post

Thanks for the info. Seems like firehawk isn't the best for 3d, well get another screen probably when budget permits. Always have a harder time picking out screens then projectors for some reason

How do you get that FH isn't good for 3D from that page?

From the discussion, I thought it might be something to do with the glasses. Isn't it ok with JVC glasses? And even so, it only affected the earlier batches of the FH?
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post #908 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

So now that I've had a chance to look at both pics (HP vs.non-HP) which one would you choose? I realize there's a bias on camera differences but...

===================
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTonik
Jaw? Meet floor.

Displaying Disney's Calibration Disc via a 106" Da-Lite High Power 2.4. Default settings on Cinema.


Hi,
I am new on this thread.
Based on some test I made on small Da-lite HP samples with my HD 750, I am considering to buy such 146"x 62' HP screen but I am puzzled by the content of the quoted post.
Could you help me to understand its content?

My vewing distance: 18'

thanks
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post #909 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

How do you get that FH isn't good for 3D from that page?

From the discussion, I thought it might be something to do with the glasses. Isn't it ok with JVC glasses? And even so, it only affected the earlier batches of the FH?

I did not get that FH was bad for 3D from that page. I have read it from various other sources although they also rave about the HP 2.0+ screens so it might just be objective opinion. Personally I think the 3D image looks great on my FH so I'm not going to worry about it although I may order some samples of other material in the future for comparison for 3D. 2D looks outstanding on it as well.
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post #910 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

Just a little FYI - If anyone needs to learn the remote commands that are not available on the standard remote control, there is a way to do it. If you can get hold of a JVC Service Remote Control, part number PTU94023B, this will let you transmit any of the IR commands in my guide. You just type in 73, followed by the required hex code, then hit the transmit button. There are available from eBay and many other places for around £25/$35. One word of warning, don't transmit any codes that are not in the guide.

Hi Gary,

I've just received one of these, thanks for the tip. I'm not sure about the process though...

To switch it on, the instructions say "press 4 5 6 together" while putting the batteries. This works fine, and the unit displays 43-00.

What do I do from there?

Do I use the arows above "custom" to select 73 (which replaces the 43), and then type in the hex data, which appears instead of the "00"? Can you send the whole hex sequence, or do you have to hit the transmit button between each individual hex code?

Could you please give an example of which keys to press once the 43-00 is on screen, say to send Power On: 21 89 01 50 57 31 0A

I've read your word of warning re not typing a command that isn't in the guide, so I'd rather not experiment...

Also, if I want the string to be learnt by my Harmony One, do you know if I should use the RAW mode or the normal mode?

One last question, any news about discrete codes for 3D modes?

Thanks!
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post #911 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Do I use the arows above "custom" to select 73 (which replaces the 43), and then type in the hex data, which appears instead of the "00"? Can you send the whole hex sequence, or do you have to hit the transmit button between each individual hex code?

You're on the right track. Use the arrows above "CUSTOM" to select the 73 (or 63 if you change the remote code on the projector), then use the "DATA" buttons to punch in the ASCII value of the command from pages 4-9 of my guide, then press the Transmit key (the one with a No. 3 in a square box on it).

Quote:
I've read your word of warning re not typing a command that isn't in the guide, so I'd rather not experiment...

I wouldn't - in fact I did, but I won't be doing that again

Quote:
Also, if I want the string to be learnt by my Harmony One, do you know if I should use the RAW mode or the normal mode?

I don't know the Harmony well enough to answer that. maybe someone here or over at Remotecentral will know.

Quote:
One last question, any news about discrete codes for 3D modes?

Not yet. Last I heard was that it wasn't possible, but you never know.
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post #912 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

You're on the right track. Use the arrows above "CUSTOM" to select the 73 (or 63 if you change the remote code on the projector), then use the "DATA" buttons to punch in the ASCII value of the command from pages 4-9 of my guide, then press the Transmit key (the one with a No. 3 in a square box on it).

Thanks, it worked a treat! Much easier to enter the ASCII value than the hex string...

I can't see a power off button for the remote, so I guess I'll have to take the batteries out after each session.
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post #913 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 10:48 AM
 
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[quote=lovingdvd;19846200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

...So far, I'm inclined to agree that the problem occurs when unexpected HDMI responses are received by the RS50. In other words its error handling routines are not robust. Keep bad HDMI outputs from getting to the RS50 and everything is OK. Unfortunately there are a number of ways to generate bad HDMI outputs...

Makes sense. What are the types of things then that cause unexpected HDMI responses? I don't think I'd be doing anything too fancy...

Here is my usage scenario:

a) Comcast STB outputting 720p, 1080i, or 1080p/24 via HDMI to AVR

b) PS3 outputting its typical HD resolutions via HDMI to AVR

c) HDMI 1.4 #D Blu-ray player such as Samsung or Sony outputting 1080p/24 (but possibly 1080p60 during menus, loading screens etc) via HDMI to AVR.

All three of the above sources would be feeding my Yamaha A2000 with processing turned off, and switched by the AVR out to HDMI 1 only on the pj (no changing HDMI inputs on the RS50).

In this scenario how likely am I to hit this bug?

Best I can tell you is that all of those would work. What I think got me was changing sources with a second display's EDID in the mix. The first time I had a problem I was switching sources. The second time I turned off a source.

Now that I've eliminated the second HDTV from the mix (or the matrix, in this case) and only output to the RS50 (a 4x1 matrix), I've had no problems.

I think this is why we're not seeing more reports of problems. You have to do some complex HDMI switching to have the problem appear. If you can remove the complexity, the problem won't appear. So, 4x2 with two dissimilar displays causes problems but 4x1 with just the RS50 is good.

Of course there is the report of the HDMI1 to HDMI2 switching problem but I don't know what else was in the mix.
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post #914 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 11:43 AM
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I posted an answer from JVC on my complaint about lack of 3D DTV support and the news ain't good!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post19851584

Kevin

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post #915 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 12:00 PM
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I've spend some time over last weekend calibrating my RS60. I've got impression that there is kind of 2 levels of CMS: 100% saturation points are fixed and moving user mode CMS controls does nothing with them, but good thing Standard mode is much better than RS35 THX mode OOB, everything is withing 2.5 dE2000 after gray scale calibration. I didn't have chance to go into service menu yet, will try to do that on weekend. Is there any CMS controls in the service menu that allow fine tuning of 100% saturation points?
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post #916 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

I can't see a power off button for the remote, so I guess I'll have to take the batteries out after each session.

You may as well leave them in. They'll last years - pretty much whatever their shelf life would be.
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post #917 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

You may as well leave them in. They'll last years - pretty much whatever their shelf life would be.

Thanks, that will make it easier!
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post #918 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 01:48 PM
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I found an interesting 3D title, The History Channel's 7 Wonders of the Universe.

I suspect it has aired on cable etc, but you always get a better quality with the blu-ray and it was a cheap one

The 3D is quite forced which gets lots of oohs and aahs, but it can make you feel a bit queezy after the 40 minutes. There IS some ghosting with this title, primarily because of the fact there are plenty solid colours with contrasting objects projected deep into or out of the screen. Not to mention the opening title when first booting the disc from the 3D blu-ray editing company which is black wire-grid letters projecting out of the screen against a white background...that is a real no no and of course shows obvious ghosting.

But overall i found it fascinating, but that maybe partly due to my fascination with astronomy and space.
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post #919 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I found an interesting 3D title, The History Channel's 7 Wonders of the Universe.

I suspect it has aired on cable etc, but you always get a better quality with the blu-ray and it was a cheap one

The 3D is quite forced which gets lots of oohs and aahs, but it can make you feel a bit queezy after the 40 minutes. There IS some ghosting with this title, primarily because of the fact there are plenty solid colours with contrasting objects projected deep into or out of the screen. Not to mention the opening title when first booting the disc from the 3D blu-ray editing company which is black wire-grid letters projecting out of the screen against a white background...that is a real no no and of course shows obvious ghosting.

But overall i found it fascinating, but that maybe partly due to my fascination with astronomy and space.

i found this title entertaining as well. There was a series on TLC or Discovery and recall seeing this before in 2D. The CGI is pretty good, definitely some good 3D effects.

being in the UK, you should be able to get a hold of Street Dance 3D (not Step up 3D). There are 2 scenes I like to show folks when they visit for 'real people' 3D.
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post #920 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i found this title entertaining as well. There was a series on TLC or Discovery and recall seeing this before in 2D. The CGI is pretty good, definitely some good 3D effects.

being in the UK, you should be able to get a hold of Street Dance 3D (not Step up 3D). There are 2 scenes I like to show folks when they visit for 'real people' 3D.

Thanks. I have that title but haven't played it through yet.
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post #921 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Thanks. I have that title but haven't played it through yet.

There are 2 major dance scenes, one is in a night club 1/2 through the movie, the other on a stage at the very end. Great scenes, both in dark venues with lots of lights flashing, it's a torture test for the JVC.
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post #922 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 05:21 PM
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Is anyone able to watch basketball on channel 103 right now? I just get a message saying my tv does not support 720p resolution. If it is working what's the trick?
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post #923 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLCAVS View Post

Hi,
I am new on this thread.
Based on some test I made on small Da-lite HP samples with my HD 750, I am considering to buy such 146"x 62' HP screen but I am puzzled by the content of the quoted post.
Could you help me to understand its content?

My vewing distance: 18'

thanks

It was posted to illustrate the difference between an HP screen users screenshot and mine using a non-HP AT screen and I was looking for some comments on what everyone thought of the difference(s).

I thought the HP makes the color pop but mine looked (to me) to be more accurate and natural looking.

No one on our threads got any opinions??

Kevin

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post #924 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

It was posted to illustrate the difference between an HP screen users screenshot and mine using a non-HP AT screen and I was looking for some comments on what everyone thought of the difference(s).

I thought the HP makes the color pop but mine looked (to me) to be more accurate and natural looking.

No one on our threads got any opinions??

Screens can have some effect on color, and the weave or holes in an AT screen can affect perceived resolution, or impart a texture if they're large enough. But, I don't see how an AT screen could make an image more natural, or the HP make it appear less natural. The biggest difference, I would think, would be brightness. You could get rid of that difference by moving off axis enough with the HP to equalize the brightness levels between the two screens. I always describe the HP as a "transparent" screen, in the sense that it pretty much gets out of the way and you see just the image you're supposed to see. To me, it looks very uniform in terms of color and brightness, and it has no visible sheen.

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post #925 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

It was posted to illustrate the difference between an HP screen users screenshot and mine using a non-HP AT screen and I was looking for some comments on what everyone thought of the difference(s).

I thought the HP makes the color pop but mine looked (to me) to be more accurate and natural looking.

No one on our threads got any opinions??

cameras differ so much.. it's impossible to compare screenshots. Heck, his white balance could have been off creating the dull image that we see. I can make a 1.0 gain screen look as bright/colorful as my HP with just an extra stop or two of exposure on my SLR. Most cameras don't have the dynamic range to properly capture a projected screen, nor are most monitors capable of displaying said picture properly.

besides, nothing beats seeing the glory of the HP screen in person.
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post #926 of 4220 Old 01-18-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

cameras differ so much.. it's impossible to compare screenshots. Heck, his white balance could have been off creating the dull image that we see. I can make a 1.0 gain screen look as bright/colorful as my HP with just an extra stop or two of exposure on my SLR. Most cameras don't have the dynamic range to properly capture a projected screen, nor are most monitors capable of displaying said picture properly.

besides, nothing beats seeing the glory of the HP screen in person.

A lot of variables between the cameras and settings used for the two pictures.

These are selected settings from the top picture:

Model = Panasonic DMC-FZ35
Exposure Time = 1/8"
Exposure Program = Normal program
ISO Speed Ratings = 400
F Number = F2.8
Date Time Original = 2011-01-16 16:29:40
Date Time Digitized = 2011-01-16 16:29:40
Exposure Bias Value = ±0EV
Focal Length = 4.8mm
Color Space = sRGB
Exposure Mode = Auto exposure
White Balance = Auto white balance
Focal Length In 35mm Film = 28mm
Gain Control = High gain up

Below are a few selected settings from the bottom picture

106" Da-Lite High Power 2.4. Default settings on Cinema
Model = Canon EOS REBEL T2i
Exposure Time = 1/15"
F Number = F4.5
Exposure Program = Shutter priority
ISO Speed Ratings = 200
Date Time Original = 2010-05-19 20:08:05
Date Time Digitized = 2010-05-19 20:08:05
Aperture Value = 4.38 AV
Focal Length = 33mm
Exposure Mode = Auto exposure
White Balance = Manual white balance
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post #927 of 4220 Old 01-19-2011, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

It was posted to illustrate the difference between an HP screen users screenshot and mine using a non-HP AT screen and I was looking for some comments on what everyone thought of the difference(s).

I thought the HP makes the color pop but mine looked (to me) to be more accurate and natural looking.

No one on our threads got any opinions??

If I catch well the contents of the preceding posts it appears that the comparison of the said screens would be based on two pictures taken by two different cameras from different projectors in different locations (projection conditions). With so much included variables it should be definitely naïve to believe that this could result in serious relevant statement.
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post #928 of 4220 Old 01-19-2011, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

cameras differ so much.. it's impossible to compare screenshots. Heck, his white balance could have been off creating the dull image that we see. I can make a 1.0 gain screen look as bright/colorful as my HP with just an extra stop or two of exposure on my SLR. Most cameras don't have the dynamic range to properly capture a projected screen, nor are most monitors capable of displaying said picture properly.

besides, nothing beats seeing the glory of the HP screen in person.

I had unfortunately no possibility to watch an HP screen. I made only tests on small samples with my HD 750.
I am considering a 146"x 62" screen to be viewed at 18' in a very dark room and have naturally made the calculation of possible gains for my configuration, based on the HP 2.4 fabric gain curve.
My interest for this screen relates to my intent to buy a new 3D JVC projector, which shows (for me) in 3D too low light level on unity gain screens.

What is your own experience in 3D on your HP screen?

Thanks
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post #929 of 4220 Old 01-19-2011, 03:12 AM
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FLCAVS -- Especially since those two cameras have a different color balance (and color saturation levels) to start with. It is similar to comparing a Kodachrome picture to a Fuji-Color picture in a film camera.

Based on my experience (and the info provided by GeorgeHolland), the majority of the screen-shot differences are primarily due to the camera differences.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #930 of 4220 Old 01-19-2011, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post


I thought the HP makes the color pop but mine looked (to me) to be more accurate and natural looking.

No one on our threads got any opinions??

The only difference on a properly calibrated system should be a difference in brightness and m-ANSI contrast due to different screen gain. It is impossible to capture perceptual difference in color representation due to a difference in brightness levels using any camera.
Screen shots are totally useless for evaluating color accuracy.
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