Official JVC RS-50 Owner's Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Mine is at 70 hours right now.

Sorry Jon, I was refering to the other RS50 that Jeff calibrated, but I'd overlooked yours. While 70 hours is still a little 'green' for a calibration, I'd have thought it should be settling down by now. Maybe there is an issue that JVC need to address, hopefully a firmware issue rather than hardware which is a bit of a pain if you've already paid for a calibration...

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #182 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 10:22 AM
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Here are some screenshots. The first 3 show THX mode out of the box with aperture at 0. Aperture changes DO affect the result.

The final screenshot shows greyscale after calibration. Notice that 100 IRE is a bit out but that can be tweaked later with gamma.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #183 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Adidadi I was interested to know how many hours you have on your RS50 as you've already had it calibrated? I know Jeff is highly respected on here, but I always thought it was considered prudent to wait until at least 100 hours on the lamp. Unless of course you're having him back later for a 'touch up' calibration once it's settled in?

I wondered if the lack of hours might have been the cause of the other RS50's stability issues, hence my question.

You are most likely correct, but I've never been accused of being over prudent. I'm sure things will settle, but it looks so darn good right now I am happy with it. Jeff will not be out in California until April, so John was kind enough to give me his December slot.

Silence is overrated!
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post #184 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

Worked on second RS50. This one was completely different than the first. No CMS or color problems with this one. Best color I have seen from LCOS machine.

3D was much better than CEDIA. Appears flicker visibility is dependent on lumen level. Movies were running at 48Hz on JVC. I suspect that is why it flickers when bright. First scope 3D install I have seen on 11 ft wide High Power screen. Powerful combination. Used anamorphic stretch for 2:35 3D in Oppo. Very cool.

I wonder how it will compare to the RS 40 and to Sony 90ES.
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post #185 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Here are some screenshots. The first 3 show THX mode out of the box with aperture at 0. Aperture changes DO affect the result.

The final screenshot shows greyscale after calibration. Notice that 100 IRE is a bit out but that can be tweaked later with gamma.

Jon - looks great. Are you going to touch up 95%? The jump to a dE of 4 from nearly 0 is likely visible on the results.

Can you post the measured gamut and luminance of your color calibration? Something sounds very wrong if the controls did not have sufficient range to move all the targets to their correct Rec 709 positions. That was basically the issue (among linearity problems) with the RS20 CMS before the firmware fix.
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post #186 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 10:52 AM
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Where are people getting their Oppo 93 players? I thought they have not been released yet.

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post #187 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidadi View Post

You are most likely correct, but I've never been accused of being over prudent. I'm sure things will settle, but it looks so darn good right now I am happy with it. Jeff will not be out in California until April, so John was kind enough to give me his December slot.

I found my HD350 changed markedly from an initial calibration I did at around 30-40 hours compared to 150 hours, but I guess when Jeff comes back it'll only be a relatively quick tweak to get it back on track. It was more any possible issues with updated firmware or early failures that would put me off paying for a calibration very early on. I guess judging by Jeff's reputation on here that he'll 'look after you' anyway.

I recently calibrated a new TV as I rented an i1Pro for a week to do my HD350 plus VideoEQ Pro and the TV failed a few weeks later, so the replacement will need calibration. At least I'm just paying for the rental of the sensor I suppose. One day I hope to own a projector with a more stable light source, so I'll treat it to a professional calibration once it's got a few hours on it.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #188 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert_S View Post

Where are people getting their Oppo 93 players? I thought they have not been released yet.

Robert

It's a limited pre-release to a few select owners...
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post #189 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Jon - looks great. Are you going to touch up 95%? The jump to a dE of 4 from nearly 0 is likely visible on the results.

Can you post the measured gamut and luminance of your color calibration? Something sounds very wrong if the controls did not have sufficient range to move all the targets to their correct Rec 709 positions. That was basically the issue (among linearity problems) with the RS20 CMS before the firmware fix.

I will fix the linearity. This was a rough and ready first pass.

I aborted the colour calibration because I just wasn't getting anywhere. I could see luminance adjustments quite easily but I didn't need to change them much as you can see from my original starting point. But I just couldn't get anywhere with hue and saturation at all. So I'm afraid nothing to post. What do you think of the "out of the box" numbers? The greyscale isn't wonderful but I think fairly typical. I have never seen such good luminance figures out of the box though but shame about the red saturation and yellow hue. However I want to test it again as I was using the Duo's built-in test patterns. And I want to check again with the AVS patterns although they should be the same.
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post #190 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidadi View Post

Please let me know. it would be nice to know if my Marantz AV7005 has this feature too. In case the oppo 93 has java issues.

adidadi..

How do you like your AV7005?? Interested in your comments. Have you seen the UD5005 bluray that matches it??

Congrats on your RS50..
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post #191 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I will fix the linearity. This was a rough and ready first pass.

I aborted the colour calibration because I just wasn't getting anywhere. I could see luminance adjustments quite easily but I didn't need to change them much as you can see from my original starting point. But I just couldn't get anywhere with hue and saturation at all. So I'm afraid nothing to post. What do you think of the "out of the box" numbers? The greyscale isn't wonderful but I think fairly typical. I have never seen such good luminance figures out of the box though but shame about the red saturation and yellow hue. However I want to test it again as I was using the Duo's built-in test patterns. And I want to check again with the AVS patterns although they should be the same.

I don't really pay much attention to any of the out of the box numbers. To me its irrelevant because no matter how bad or good they are I'm going to dial them in where I want them. For those who don't plan to calibrate, or who won't calibrate until x hours then OOTB results are more important.

For me all that really matters is that a display is capable of being dialed in. We know that's the case with the grayscale. We know that's the case with the RS20 CMS. And we've heard mixed things about the RS50 - both from the same person (umr stating one was shaky, the other was great) and now we have a report from you that the hue and saturation controls do not seem to be working. I assume that's the case with all colors, or did you try one color in particular and then give up (and if so, trythe others). Very odd. Let us know what you find when you are able to test more.
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post #192 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 12:07 PM
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Maybe it's a good time to open an RS50/60 CMS Calibration thread.

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post #193 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 12:11 PM
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Maybe it's a good time to open an RS50/60 CMS Calibration thread.

Right
Then post the link so I'll subscribe the thread
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post #194 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 12:28 PM
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Right
Then post the link so I'll subscribe the thread
Thanks

Well I don't have my 50 just yet but I should have it tomorrow after I drive to Rochester to pick it up (fortunately I was higher on the preorder list than I figured ). But I won't be attempting to calibrate it for a bit.

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post #195 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Well I don't have my 50 just yet but I should have it tomorrow after I drive to Rochester to pick it up (fortunately I was higher on the preorder list than I figured ). But I won't be attempting to calibrate it for a bit.

Well, Congratulation

If all goes right, I'll get my RS60 next 22 or 23 Dec...
Just bought some 3D Titles to shot and try ...
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post #196 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 01:09 PM
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Should get my x7 just after Christmas. Just returned the Sony due to poor 3d performance. I'll post my impressions in the vs. Thread. The Sony was a fantastic 2d machine, but the 3d was dim and had tons of ghosting. So far the Acer is the projector to beat for 3d. Lol.
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post #197 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 01:09 PM
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John - what meter are you using? I found that my old I1 D2 was bad about measuring changes but my I1 pro is much better.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #198 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Highlander_AVS View Post

Well, Congratulation

If all goes right, I'll get my RS60 next 22 or 23 Dec...
Just bought some 3D Titles to shot and try ...

Thanks!
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and everyone else waiting. I know I got on the list early but I wasn't sure if I'd make the first cut.

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post #199 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Should get my x7 just after Christmas. Just returned the Sony due to poor 3d performance. I'll post my impressions in the vs. Thread. The Sony was a fantastic 2d machine, but the 3d was dim and had tons of ghosting. So far the Acer is the projector to beat for 3d. Lol.

It'll be interesting to read your take on JVC motion....Hopefully the JVC scratches your itch!

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post #200 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Bouncing off the screen is about all you can do as the emitter cable is really not long enough to be placed at the front of the theater. An extension cable would be need to try the direct method...

I bought a high quality 15ft. M/F mini-din cable for testing what a direct line of sight to the screen (vs. a bounce), would do and I'll report back what I find (soon).

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post #201 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

I bought a high quality 15ft. M/F mini-din cable for testing what a direct line of sight to the screen (vs. a bounce), would do and I'll report back what I find (soon).

Kevin

I think I came across the same web site...could there really be that much of a timing difference buncing off a screen 15 feet away ( so a 30 foot roundtrip) vs. a direct line of transmission of 15 feet? Curious if this has any impact on what little crosstalk I see...
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post #202 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I think I came across the same web site...could there really be that much of a timing difference buncing off a screen 15 feet away ( so a 30 foot roundtrip) vs. a direct line of transmission of 15 feet? Curious if this has any impact on what little crosstalk I see...

The speed of light is (roughly) 300,000,000 meters/Second - a 30' round trip will take just about 30 nanoseconds. There may be less IR interference and perhaps the glasses won't lose sync as easily.

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post #203 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 03:10 PM
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Hmm...I switched from the DVDO test screens to the AVC disc and got slightly different results. The gamma tracks somewhere between 2.1 and 2.2. The greyscale has a similar dE although green and blue track together rather than crossover. And for the colour gamut, it actually showed slightly better with all colours being under dE of 10. However, the basic trends were the same, with the largest errors being Red being out on saturation, and yellow on hue.

No change in behaviour of the CMS though

I am using a Calman enhanced Spyder 3.
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post #204 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I think I came across the same web site...could there really be that much of a timing difference buncing off a screen 15 feet away ( so a 30 foot roundtrip) vs. a direct line of transmission of 15 feet? Curious if this has any impact on what little crosstalk I see...

First - the speed of light is many orders of magnitude faster than needed to keep the correct timing. Second - running the signal thru 15ft. of copper wire also incurs a similar, but still inconsequential, delay. A 30 ft. total round trip of the IR signal requires about 0.03 microseconds which is far too short to result in any sort of timing issues compared to the approx. 8 millisecond (for 120 Hz 3D video refresh rate) cycle time for the 3D glasses.

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post #205 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 03:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

First - the speed of light is many orders of magnitude faster than needed to keep the correct timing. Second - running the signal thru 15ft. of copper wire also incurs a similar, but still inconsequential, delay. A 30 ft. total round trip of the IR signal requires about 0.03 microseconds which is far too short to result in any sort of timing issues compared to the approx. 8 millisecond (for 120 Hz 3D video refresh rate) cycle time for the 3D glasses.

...and 30 nanoseconds (.03 microseconds) is well within clock drift tolerances of most CE devices. A typical laptop does a lot worse.

From display work, a human's perception ability for change is usually in the 10s of milliseconds.
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post #206 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 03:53 PM
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Well I pulled the trigger and ordered an X7. Got a 110" Stewart firehawk G3 screen, i was informed this is not the best screen for 3D, i was wondering if some more informed users can confirm this. Now to find a mount, emitter, and some glasses. From what i have read this should be a huge improvement for 2D content over my current RS1 regardless of the screen.
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post #207 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Hmm...I switched from the DVDO test screens to the AVC disc and got slightly different results. The gamma tracks somewhere between 2.1 and 2.2. The greyscale has a similar dE although green and blue track together rather than crossover. And for the colour gamut, it actually showed slightly better with all colours being under dE of 10. However, the basic trends were the same, with the largest errors being Red being out on saturation, and yellow on hue.

No change in behaviour of the CMS though

I am using a Calman enhanced Spyder 3.

Personally I'd go by the patterns coming out of the blu-ray player. Calibrate 100% to D65 using each sources on two different presets. Then flip between them. Which looks the most like a cloudy sky on a totally overcast day? That's the one closest to D65.

The CMS not working for your is quite confusing. I assume its not operator error, but just to double check, have you used the JVC CMS before like with the RS20?
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post #208 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post


First - the speed of light is many orders of magnitude faster than needed to keep the correct timing. Second - running the signal thru 15ft. of copper wire also incurs a similar, but still inconsequential, delay. A 30 ft. total round trip of the IR signal requires about 0.03 microseconds which is far too short to result in any sort of timing issues compared to the approx. 8 millisecond (for 120 Hz 3D video refresh rate) cycle time for the 3D glasses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post


...and 30 nanoseconds (.03 microseconds) is well within clock drift tolerances of most CE devices. A typical laptop does a lot worse.

From display work, a human's perception ability for change is usually in the 10s of milliseconds.

Glad I didn't lay out money for the cable!
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post #209 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 09:51 PM
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The cable costs less than a beer.

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post #210 of 4220 Old 12-16-2010, 09:54 PM
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Well theater fans, today I got my RS50 hooked up and the glasses and emitter finally came. I can say without a doubt that I almost fell off my chair with the quality of this projector. I had an Epson 1080 (from 2006, non-UB) and I just can't believe the difference in picture quality.

The 3D on the RS-50 is ABSOLUTELY STUNNING. I never thought JVC could pull off, to this extent, such amazing looking 3D with plenty of light and SO much clarity. My Elite 150" 1.1 gain screen is working beautifully. Those of you who are waiting on this model are going to literally be blown away. This is just on the THX setting out of the box!

I tested 14 3D blu-rays out of my 24 and did not see ghosting at any time, the picture was absolutely perfect on all of the discs and I have to say that I have not seen 3D look this good in most theaters (Imax was similar but no other).

This is the best Chaunukah present I have ever bought for myself. I am going to have to watch my entire Blu-ray collection over again and any 3D film that comes out is going to be on my shelf.

HATS OFF TO JVC!!!!!!!! UNBELIEVEABLE!


My only problem is that while I have been a home theater junkie since I was 17 (I am now 48), I really know nothing about many of the settings and CMS, ect. I just used the THX picture. So I hope in the future on this thread that some of you who are familiar with all of this tech will post your settings so some of us who aren't so inclined can try them out. I am in a small town so there is no one here to calibrate anything and I have tried calibration discs before but for some reason I just don't get it...so I hope some of you will post your settings.
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