Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 139 - AVS Forum
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post #4141 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Since you just got the projector, the convergence looks pretty good. Others have noted that convergence improves over the first hundred hours. Personally, I wouldn't have thought twice about it if mine had been that good. I think my misconvergence must be diagonal, since no amount of color shift improves it in any way. It only shifts the larger problems to other parts of the screen. I can see color fringing in fine details over ~60% of my screen.

My convergence got worse after 100 hours. It is luck which direction it goes!
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post #4142 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

I still haven't been able to get into the service menu. Can anyone help me out?

I think kutlow was able to get in by using a combination of back panel buttons and the remote. In other words, he hit top/bottom/right/left on the projector and enter on the remote (or vice versa). I got it to respond only one time to that sequence (I'm not sure about the sequence, BTW) by using just the buttons on the remote. Never got in again that way.

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post #4143 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I think kutlow was able to get in by using a combination of back panel buttons and the remote. In other words, he hit top/bottom/right/left on the projector and enter on the remote (or vice versa). I got it to respond only one time to that sequence (I'm not sure about the sequence, BTW) by using just the buttons on the remote. Never got in again that way.

It's all about the timing. About 0.3 of a second for each button press is correct.
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post #4144 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lorjam View Post

Looks like my plans to join the owners party were premature The promised shipment to AVS has been "re-promised" to a later date.

Me too.
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post #4145 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

I still haven't been able to get into the service menu. Can anyone help me out?

The sequence is the same as for older models, but you have to type it slower or it doesn't work. I'd say at least 1/2 a second between keypresses.

I'm using the remote, for all the keys, in the sequence listed by Joe above.
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post #4146 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Please be sure that your RS40 had already been powered on, in 3D preset mode, for 20 mins before doing any 3D viewing. This warm up period is unfortunately necessary on the new JVC 3D projectors for a ghosting-free or near-free experience. But the end result is an absolutely gorgeous, sharp and jaw dropping 3D experience.

Also please disclose the 3D source device, and the actual 3D movie because those two factors matter a lot. For example your typical DirecTV or Comcast 3D is Side by Side 3D format which will typically shoe more obvious ghosting than frame packed 3D blurays. Also some 3D blurays will show slightly more ghosting than others such as Despicable Me which is currently the animated 3D movie with higher instances of ghosting, it's not bad, but more than other animated features which show virtually none.

Last, make sure the total distance between your eyes/glasses to the screen and back to the projector or where the emitter is placed is no more that 30 feet to avoid the 3D movement jitters or the 3D signal fluctuations. And if you have the Xpand glasses, make sure you properly synch them. Also check to make sure batteries have enough juice.
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post #4147 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

It's all about the timing. About 0.3 of a second for each button press is correct.

Yes, it was your post that allowed me to get in the one and only time I did. But it's too hard to get it right on my particular RS40. I must have tried 30 times, with one success, even after I knew the delay time.

Joe Clark

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post #4148 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:30 AM
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I have my 3D emitter pointing towards the seating, about 8' away on the ceiling angled down towards the theater seats. I have not noticed any crosstalk or any significant ghosting. Just occasional ghosting briefly with some DirecTV broadcasts.

Should the emitter be pointed towards the screen rather than the seating? The emitter has clear line of site to the seats.
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post #4149 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Profly View Post

Folks,

First of all, Damnsam77, Thank you. Purely based on what has been said in this thread i made the leap to the RS-40. Incredible!! Even my dis-approving better half was impressed, 'thats clearer than the cinema!'

But i hope i can delve into your now extensive knowledge of this PJ.

2D is pristine. Static 3D images look amazing, but motion in 3D is so jittery ( not sure of the correct term) it's like watching an acid trip!

I have had others watch 3D too, in case it was just my eyes playing games. Everyone sees the same 'effect'. It looks like seeing multiple frames at the same time, the faster the motion, the more extensive the problem.
I am using the JVC 3D glasses. I have a second pair on order in case their the issue


See my response above. The good news is that this is more than likely a set up issue or a simple user error (no disrespect). It is highly unlikely that it's defective but still a possibility. Follow the recommendations I have listed in my above post and report back please.
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post #4150 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by uzun View Post

I have my 3D emitter pointing towards the seating, about 8' away on the ceiling angled down towards the theater seats. I have not noticed any crosstalk or any significant ghosting. Just occasional ghosting briefly with some DirecTV broadcasts.

Should the emitter be pointed towards the screen rather than the seating? The emitter has clear line of site to the seats.

Nope you're good as long as you're not using a very long extension cable for the emitter to the projector. Most of us have a ceiling mounted RS40 or on a backshelf sober use the screen to bounce the 3D signal off. But it does not have to be exactly in a line of sight.
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post #4151 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post

What 3D source are you using? I've pretty much had no ghosting with properly configured PS3 (correct screen size etc.) using frame-packed 3D from Blu-Ray. However, I did a test yesterday with SbS vid from a non 3D aware Media Player (Tvix 6600) and woohoo, enter a stupid amount of crosstalk in moving scenes. Dunno if it was the vid or the fact that the Player was totally unaware of 3D/screen size but it definately showed a huge amount of crosstalk.

tn1krr,

I am using a PS3, passing through a Yamaha RX-667 3D receiver. All leads are 3D spec. The screen is 105" 1.2 Gain. The throw for the image is 12.5ft. I have tested the image taking the receiver out of the equation, with the same result.

Could you provide me with your settings for both PS3 and RS40. I'll replicate them on my system to see if they help.
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post #4152 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 12:17 PM
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Hi everyone,

New X3 owner here! Haven't watched anything with it yet, just powered it up in the spare room (nice and dark).

A couple immediate observations.

Beautiful finish. The pj just looks elegant.

Coming from a HD1 I'm not blown away by the black level. When I press the hide button, I assume this is as dark as it gets. Still quite a way to go IMO to get BLACK.

Secondly I am really pretty shocked and dissapointed at how loud the fans are. I was expecting to hear only a slight hum. I've gone to considerable expense and effort to make my dedicated room silent. But with the PJ running there is no where in the current room that I can go where I can't clearly hear the fans. Hi altitude is obnoxious BTW. Can't see how I could ever use that setting and be happy. I hope it doesn't auto switch to this in 3D mode.....

Lastly, I have all I need for 3D, except my movies didn't arrive in time. Is there any demo material available online I could download and put on a USB key ? I don't have a bluray burner.

Cheers
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post #4153 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wilsonj View Post

Hi everyone,

New X3 owner here! Haven't watched anything with it yet, just powered it up in the spare room (nice and dark).

A couple immediate observations.

Beautiful finish. The pj just looks elegant.

Coming from a HD1 I'm not blown away by the black level. When I press the hide button, I assume this is as dark as it gets. Still quite a way to go IMO to get BLACK.

Secondly I am really pretty shocked and dissapointed at how loud the fans are. I was expecting to hear only a slight hum. I've gone to considerable expense and effort to make my dedicated room silent. But with the PJ running there is no where in the current room that I can go where I can't clearly hear the fans. Hi altitude is obnoxious BTW. Can't see how I could ever use that setting and be happy. I hope it doesn't auto switch to this in 3D mode.....

Lastly, I have all I need for 3D, except my movies didn't arrive in time. Is there any demo material available online I could download and put on a USB key ? I don't have a bluray burner.

Cheers

As far as the sound is concerned, the only time I hear mine is when I power it up. I hear the fan for about 3 seconds then never again... Even in high lamp mode I can't hear a thing while there is a movie playing. The PJ is hung maybe 4 to 5 feet directly above my head.

GO HABS GO!
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post #4154 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post
Nope you're good as long as you're not using a very long extension cable for the emitter to the projector. Most of us have a ceiling mounted RS40 or on a backshelf sober use the screen to bounce the 3D signal off. But it does not have to be exactly in a line of sight.
This may be a silly question, but wouldn't having a different light path from the emitter to the glasses than the video to the eyes effect the timing of the shutters. In other words, I thought that bouncing the emitter off of the screen was so that the IR is hitting the glasses at the same time that the image light is hitting your eyes so that the correct shutter is open.

IE, if your throw/seating are approximately 16' (for simplicity), then the image light is traveling 32' to reach your eyes. With the emitter 8' away pointing directly at the glasses, the IR is essentially off by a factor of 4 relative to the light of the picture. With the standard recommendation of putting the emitter on top of the projector, pointing at the screen, they arrive in sync (which is what I assumed to be the reason for that recommendation).

The speed of light is pretty fast though, so that may make it a moot point, but not sure how much the relative difference between them would be noticeable by the human eye. I wonder if at some point, a relative difference between the two could result in ghosting (or is it crosstalk?). IE, split second differences between which frame is on the screen vs which side of the shutter is open.
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post #4155 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 01:59 PM
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Hi zbroke,

No doubt I won't hear it either during a movie. But it will increase the noise floor, regardless. I suspect it will become noticeable during very quiet passages.

I am sure I will hear it much more when in 3D mode.

I have also been playing with the CMD settings. I quite like setting 3, but its a little too much sometimes. 1 and 2 flicker too much to be of use, and 4 looks like a computer game.
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post #4156 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post
Ok,I finally got around to trouble shooting a little tonight.

1. Banding. It goes away with a piece of paper taped to the screen,so there is some kind of "interference"with the pattern of the Seymour AT screen. I will contact Chris and make sure that he is aware of the problem. I don't know if it is my particular install, projector or what. I tried moving the Oppo player and connecting with a shorter cable, removing the ISCO II lens. Nothing got rid of it....

2. 3D works with my existing cable, I just have to power on JVC first, AV7005 and then the Oppo 93 last. Bingo 3D.

3. I still can't get the Harmony 1000 to power on the projector correctly. I used the remote to "learn" the on and standby commands tonight and still couldn't get it to work.

That is it , long night.....

P.S. Sorry I forgot to add, I took over 115 pictures trying to get a good shot of the "effect" and couldn't.....

Man that is really odd! I wish you could post a pic that would show it but I know what you mean because I tried to show everyone that "digital rain" I'm experiencing in my upper left quadrant and it just would not come out (even with my Panny Lumix).

Kevin

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post #4157 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsonj View Post
Coming from a HD1 I'm not blown away by the black level. When I press the hide button, I assume this is as dark as it gets. Still quite a way to go IMO to get BLACK.

Secondly I am really pretty shocked and dissapointed at how loud the fans are. I was expecting to hear only a slight hum. I've gone to considerable expense and effort to make my dedicated room silent. But with the PJ running there is no where in the current room that I can go where I can't clearly hear the fans. Hi altitude is obnoxious BTW. Can't see how I could ever use that setting and be happy. I hope it doesn't auto switch to this in 3D mode.....
The RS40/X3 is measureably darker than the HD1. Will you notice it without side by side comparison? Doubtful. Try lowering the Lens App to -15 and go from there. Calibration for proper grayascale and gamma help too. I'm coming from an RS20 and RS2 before that and the RS40 is better PERIOD (not even counting 3D).

It's also at least as quiet as your HD1, if not more. Not sure why you think it's louder unless yours is defective. High Lamp mode is always louder, and yes, it is used in 3D since you need more light.

If my post comes across as harse, please understand that there are others on the fence that may take the negativity of your post as fact. I'd hate for anyone to avoid ordering or cancel an RS40. It's the best damn PJ on the planet for value (=features + performance/price). One could easily look at your post and the others questioning convergance and make the wrong decision.

All three panel projectors have some panel alignment issues. Some are worse than others. Most are usually within spec and aren't noticeable at all from a normal seating distance. A 0.5 pixel shift probably won't be noticable at all while watching a movie, etc. None of your guests are going to look at a cross-hatch screen from one foot away. It's probably best if you don't either, especially a single pixel-width test. The RS40 has is sharper than previous models and that's a good thing overall and probably produces less CA because of that.

I wonder if people spend this much time complaining about the "faults" in the new car that they just bought that cost 10 times as much. I suggest sitting back and actually trying to enjoy the show. Life is too short to nit-pick.

If not, well like the man said, you can't please all the people all of the time.

EDIT: I'm also getting older, so my eyes and ears aren't what they used to be. YMMV

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post #4158 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsonj View Post
Hi everyone,

New X3 owner here! Haven't watched anything with it yet, just powered it up in the spare room (nice and dark).

A couple immediate observations.

Beautiful finish. The pj just looks elegant.

Coming from a HD1 I'm not blown away by the black level. When I press the hide button, I assume this is as dark as it gets. Still quite a way to go IMO to get BLACK.

Secondly I am really pretty shocked and dissapointed at how loud the fans are. I was expecting to hear only a slight hum. I've gone to considerable expense and effort to make my dedicated room silent. But with the PJ running there is no where in the current room that I can go where I can't clearly hear the fans. Hi altitude is obnoxious BTW. Can't see how I could ever use that setting and be happy. I hope it doesn't auto switch to this in 3D mode.....

Lastly, I have all I need for 3D, except my movies didn't arrive in time. Is there any demo material available online I could download and put on a USB key ? I don't have a bluray burner.

Cheers
Congrats Wilson on the X3. As far as the fan noise, check you do not have it set up in high lamp as it will make it hum a little louder. In any case, just turn the received audio up and problem solved. Hope nothing is wrong with the new baby pj.

Ian B
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post #4159 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post
It's all about the timing. About 0.3 of a second for each button press is correct.
Jon is exactly right. It's all in the timing. You can use either the remote buttons or the buttons on the projector. I've never tried mixing them and wouldn't recommend it.

Chris
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post #4160 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 02:21 PM
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cdeutsh,

can you tell us more about how the projector calculates lamp hours? Mine shows close to 390 hours now and, as much as I watch it, there's no way it was turned on for that long?

Some speculated high mode would add more. Also some speculated that the projector would round up, i.e. watch 1.5h, clock records 2h?

Just curious...

390/24 = 16.25 full days of wathcing since Dec.8th. That's 8 full days a month for a guy with a full time job,, a wife, 2 kids in sports and myself still playing hockey. Where do I get the time????!!!

GO HABS GO!
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post #4161 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
Yes, it was your post that allowed me to get in the one and only time I did. But it's too hard to get it right on my particular RS40. I must have tried 30 times, with one success, even after I knew the delay time.
I tried it many times with the remote and never had any luck. Then I have done what Joe said and used the buttons on the back of the pj for up down right left then very quickly reached around with the romote and hit enter. Works like a charm.
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post #4162 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by zbroke View Post
cdeutsh,

can you tell us more about how the projector calculates lamp hours? Mine shows close to 390 hours now and, as much as I watch it, there's no way it was turned on for that long?

Some speculated high mode would add more. Also some speculated that the projector would round up, i.e. watch 1.5h, clock records 2h?

Just curious...

390/24 = 16.25 full days of wathcing since Dec.8th. That's 8 full days a month for a guy with a full time job,, a wife, 2 kids in sports and myself still playing hockey. Where do I get the time????!!!
wow try the Genis Book Of World Records.
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post #4163 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post
It's all about the timing. About 0.3 of a second for each button press is correct.
I haven't needed or tried to access the service mode yet, but will set this up as a sequence (macro) in my Harmony. I believe it allows control of the timing between commands which should help. That may provide the most repeatable access method.

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post #4164 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbroke View Post
cdeutsh,

can you tell us more about how the projector calculates lamp hours? Mine shows close to 390 hours now and, as much as I watch it, there's no way it was turned on for that long?

Some speculated high mode would add more. Also some speculated that the projector would round up, i.e. watch 1.5h, clock records 2h?

Just curious...

390/24 = 16.25 full days of wathcing since Dec.8th. That's 8 full days a month for a guy with a full time job,, a wife, 2 kids in sports and myself still playing hockey. Where do I get the time????!!!
I'd like to hear if there's any rounding, but hope not and don't think so. I've got 70 hours on mine and subtracting for calibration/inspection and menu/pausing time, I'm pretty sure the rest has been used watching movies and some extras. I'm not home to count the stack that I've watched already, but I'm pretty sure it's at least 30.

In fact, I'm surprised my hours aren't higher. Maybe it's rounding down on mine.

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post #4165 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagg

This may be a silly question, but wouldn't having a different light path from the emitter to the glasses than the video to the eyes effect the timing of the shutters. In other words, I thought that bouncing the emitter off of the screen was so that the IR is hitting the glasses at the same time that the image light is hitting your eyes so that the correct shutter is open.

IE, if your throw/seating are approximately 16' (for simplicity), then the image light is traveling 32' to reach your eyes. With the emitter 8' away pointing directly at the glasses, the IR is essentially off by a factor of 4 relative to the light of the picture. With the standard recommendation of putting the emitter on top of the projector, pointing at the screen, they arrive in sync (which is what I assumed to be the reason for that recommendation).

The speed of light is pretty fast though, so that may make it a moot point, but not sure how much the relative difference between them would be noticeable by the human eye. I wonder if at some point, a relative difference between the two could result in ghosting (or is it crosstalk?). IE, split second differences between which frame is on the screen vs which side of the shutter is open.
The speed of light is far too fast for the relative distances to be relevant. If it was sound you might have a case (1100-ish ft / sec), but light is effectively instananeous (200,000miles/sec or so, IIRC, which is about a billion ft/sec, which means is takes about 10 billionths of a second to go from PJ to screen, which is much less than the 120hz shutter rate).

Feel free to correct my math and physical constant values: been a while, didn't bother Googling.

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post #4166 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post
It's all about the timing. About 0.3 of a second for each button press is correct.
I never did figure out timing but it has to be done quickly. I just made a macro sequence (with no delays between commands) and it works every time....

Geof
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post #4167 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by zbroke View Post

cdeutsh,

can you tell us more about how the projector calculates lamp hours? Mine shows close to 390 hours now and, as much as I watch it, there's no way it was turned on for that long?

Some speculated high mode would add more. Also some speculated that the projector would round up, i.e. watch 1.5h, clock records 2h?

Just curious...

390/24 = 16.25 full days of wathcing since Dec.8th. That's 8 full days a month for a guy with a full time job,, a wife, 2 kids in sports and myself still playing hockey. Where do I get the time????!!!

I'm thinking your family watches a lot more movies than you realize!

The hours will always be accurate to within an hour. High lamp mode does not change how hours are measured.

What high mode does change is how many hours your lamp should last. Our factory estimates 3,000 hours lamp life if you use the standard lamp mode, and 2,000 hours lamp life if you use the high lamp mode. The reality is most people will use a mix with a 3D projector. All these numbers are based on the "half life" of the lamp. As I always mention when I talk about lamps, your mileage may vary based on a wide range of factors.

Chris
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post #4168 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

The RS40/X3 is measureably darker than the HD1. Will you notice it without side by side comparison? Doubtful. Try lowering the Lens App to -15 and go from there. Calibration for proper grayascale and gamma help too. I'm coming from an RS20 and RS2 before that and the RS40 is better PERIOD (not even counting 3D).

It's also at least as quiet as your HD1, if not more. Not sure why you think it's louder unless yours is defective. High Lamp mode is always louder, and yes, it is used in 3D since you need more light.

If my post comes across as harse, please understand that there are others on the fence that may take the negativity of your post as fact. I'd hate for anyone to avoid ordering or cancel an RS40. It's the best damn PJ on the planet for value (=features + performance/price). One could easily look at your post and the others questioning convergance and make the wrong decision.

All three panel projectors have some panel alignment issues. Some are worse than others. Most are usually within spec and aren't noticeable at all from a normal seating distance. A 0.5 pixel shift probably won't be noticable at all while watching a movie, etc. None of your guests are going to look at a cross-hatch screen from one foot away. It's probably best if you don't either, especially a single pixel-width test. The RS40 has is sharper than previous models and that's a good thing overall and probably produces less CA because of that.

I wonder if people spend this much time complaining about the "faults" in the new car that they just bought that cost 10 times as much. I suggest sitting back and actually trying to enjoy the show. Life is too short to nit-pick.

If not, well like the man said, you can't please all the people all of the time.

EDIT: I'm also getting older, so my eyes and ears aren't what they used to be. YMMV

Howdy,

No, your post doesn't come across as harsh. I guess I was just expecting something more, given the couple generations since the HD1. But then you could look at that and say well the HD1 was really something spectacular, and future models offer increasingly diminished improvements.

Don't get me wrong. I am not unhappy with my purchase. The picture out the box is far better than how I remember my old pj. Not to mention the fact its half the price, and I get free 3D ! Once fully calibrated with the lumagen mini3D I'm sure it will nothing short of stunning. Given the choice I would choose the x3 again.

I'm not one to get caught up in the technology to the point of forgetting what its all about, watching movies.

Having said all this, nothing is perfect, and I would like to see an improvement in the fan department. Perhaps in the future with different light sources we might achieve this. I am also sure there were size constraints in the design. The thing is not small now. A bigger design would allow better cooling, but just how far do you go?
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post #4169 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

I'm thinking your family watches a lot more movies than you realize!

The hours will always be accurate to within an hour. High lamp mode does not change how hours are measured.

What high mode does change is how many hours your lamp should last. Our factory estimates 3,000 hours lamp life if you use the standard lamp mode, and 2,000 hours lamp life if you use the high lamp mode. The reality is most people will use a mix with a 3D projector. All these numbers are based on the "half life" of the lamp. As I always mention when I talk about lamps, your mileage may vary based on a wide range of factors.

Chris

Mine has 132 hours now in a month and I can account for all of them. About 4hrs a day and 6-8 daily on weekends. I use it as main tv and can't stop enjoying this incredible 3d and 2d picture. Watching now Terminator Salvation and it looks outstanding witH the blacks on this dark movie.

Ian B
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post #4170 of 9995 Old 02-04-2011, 06:52 PM
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Chris,

Is Japan working on the issue that Kris Deering brought up? Just to refresh your memory, a new HDMI handshake needs to happen for either of the User settings to "click in." Thanks in advance for your reply.

David Vaughn

Blu-ray Reviewer / Technical Writer

Sound & Vision Magazine (Print & Online)

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