Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 306 - AVS Forum
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post #9151 of 9990 Old 05-22-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter08 View Post

anyone think whats a total price to produce one bulb in china incl shipping/taxes?
i can only imagine its really low,like 10-20$ ,everything above that its just profits for companies like JVC
The only reason why im praying for LED/laser expansion on a market its not that i want to go with them but is the fact that all companies will be pushed for dramatic droping a price ordinary bulbs...
so all jvc owners stay cool

It's ironic that a Japanese company has chosen a Chinese company to manufacture their projector bulbs. Japan used to be known for manufacturing inferior ripped off products in the 1950s until the 70s when the stigma of "made in Japan" evolved into meaning superior high quality products from companies like JVC, Toyota, Canon and Sony (which has lately fallen from grace). Now China has assumed the role of the maker of inferior products like dry wall, lead based toys and bad dog food. Will LED technology speed up the
drop in price of projector bulbs and return the former quality soon? I don't know how fast China can catch up but it's painful to watch if you have a JVC projector that you bought in the last 2 years.
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post #9152 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 05:46 AM
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I think you in your RS 40 might have some item of lamps in poor condition, here in Europe a user know that the first lamp of X7 (RS50) I take 1850 hours to several power cuts without having installed UPS and its second lamp has 2400 hours cun and a low light, in my particular case my X3 (RS40) is 450 hours holding off my screen of 127 "dropping to 5.5 meters lamp mode normal (low) with a luminosity sufficient to maintain the lens opening at -12, I leave a sample image greetings from Spain.
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post #9153 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 06:17 AM
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This indeed seems to be an RS40 problem. The european Χ3 owners in forums like avforums.com have not reported any issues with lamps, at least not to the degree reported here. I just got a second hand X3, which seems pretty bright still at 330 hours on the lamp. I'll get measurements later on to see where it's at and how it degrades and will report back.

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post #9154 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan P. View Post

I was looking at the RS45 thread a little bit and didn't see too many lamp complaints there, or maybe I didn't look enough? Does the RS45 series use exactly the same lamp as the RS40 series? If so, perhaps the RS45 series is still too new to see a lot of lamp complaints just yet?

I believe it is the same lamp. You're probably right, there are (I assume) less people with enough hours on a RS45 yet to run into many problems.
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post #9155 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

I believe it is the same lamp. You're probably right, there are (I assume) less people with enough hours on a RS45 yet to run into many problems.

Or the 003 bulbs are actually better.....if the RSx5 series came with them from day 1.
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post #9156 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

Is that the only proof you had to give them? I am currently measuring 7 fL, which seems low to me with 150 hours on the bulb. However, the image does not look dim to me.....but the measurement seems low given a 100" screen a 11 ft throw. Makes me think I should try and get a 003 replacement now.

What did you measure when the lamp was new? The change/drop in fL is what's important, not necessarily what a single reading is.
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post #9157 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

What did you measure when the lamp was new? The change/drop in fL is what's important, not necessarily what a single reading is.

I didn't have a meter then. I will be keeping track of it now though. I would expect dimming in the first 100 hours anyway, so I'm not sure it would have mattered.
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post #9158 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ahMuraT View Post

Hello everyone! As of yesterday, I've officially joined the X3 owners after months of research, I came across a deal i couldn't refuse.

I have a question regarding ceiling mount. I've searched the forum but couldn't find it. What bracket is compatible / recommended?

I have a Chief mount, they generally seem to be the most recommended on here, from my past research. The bracket I have is the RPMA281, which is custom designed for the RS40/X3.

http://www.chiefmfg.com/Mount-Finder/JVC/DLA-RS40
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post #9159 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter08 View Post

anyone think whats a total price to produce one bulb in china incl shipping/taxes?
i can only imagine its really low,like 10-20$ ,everything above that its just profits for companies like JVC
The only reason why im praying for LED/laser expansion on a market its not that i want to go with them but is the fact that all companies will be pushed for dramatic droping a price ordinary bulbs...
so all jvc owners stay cool

Considering that even aftermarket projector lamps are a few hundred dollars, I don't think your manufacturing estimate is correct.
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post #9160 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitris View Post

This indeed seems to be an RS40 problem. The european Χ3 owners in forums like avforums.com have not reported any issues with lamps, at least not to the degree reported here. I just got a second hand X3, which seems pretty bright still at 330 hours on the lamp. I'll get measurements later on to see where it's at and how it degrades and will report back.

As far as I know, the RS40 and X3 are exactly the same except for some minor cosmetic differences on the case.
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post #9161 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

Or the 003 bulbs are actually better.....if the RSx5 series came with them from day 1.

I'm not 100% sure, but I thought the 003s came out after the initial RSx5 launch. My guess would be that most early RSx5s came with an 002 in them.
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post #9162 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

As far as I know, the RS40 and X3 are exactly the same except for some minor cosmetic differences on the case.

That's true however the fact remains that there are minimal complaints about X3 lamps in Europe. Maybe something to do with different voltage?

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post #9163 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

I have a Chief mount, they generally seem to be the most recommended on here, from my past research. The bracket I have is the RPMA281, which is custom designed for the RS40/X3.

http://www.chiefmfg.com/Mount-Finder/JVC/DLA-RS40

Thanks a lot, looking into it. What price should i expect to pay?
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post #9164 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahMuraT View Post

Thanks a lot, looking into it. What price should i expect to pay?

Contact the AV Science store....they will get you the RPA mount and bracket for the RS40 at a great price. This is the mount to get IMO.
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post #9165 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 08:26 AM
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Let's all understand some things. JVC does not make the lamp...nor do Sony, Epson, etc... The manufacturers spec a lamp and have companies such as Philips, Osram, etc...make them. In the case of the RS40/50/60 and consumer equivalent (they are the same lamp and model...you don't see the talks about the consumer issues as they sell way less here where these are discussed) the lamp filament was inadequate to begin with. That is why there were so many premature failures. The newest version has fixed the issue and the RSx5 series have those. Part of the reason you still see RS40 people having issues is use. Some people can take 2 years to put 300 hours on a unit, so they may just be getting to an issue.

That being said, JVC and your dealer should be able to work out a fix should you have an issue with the lamp. Do note that ALL lamps will dim so it is only the cases of "out-of-the-norm" that are of concern.

It does stink, but things like this can happen in electronics as we all know.

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post #9166 of 9990 Old 05-23-2012, 08:47 PM
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What exactly is the RSx5 model that is improved that more than one person has recently stated that is not having the bulb failures compared to last year? I don't think that model number exists.

Last year there was the x3 (RS 40)
the x7 (RS 50)
the x9 (RS 60)

This year there is the x30 (RS 45)
the x70 (RS 55)
the x90 (RS 65)

From just following the forum, it appears to be premature to say the bulb issue has been fixed until more people report long term use of the 003 bulb with the newer projectors. So far it just looks like anecdotal case reports here and there and finger crossing from what I've read because there haven't enough viewing hours yet. But we all hope you're right and the European models confirm that the new bulb design lasts longer than last year's bulbs. Few people know more about these projectors than Jason Turk and I don't doubt he has a finger on the pulse of all of this.
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post #9167 of 9990 Old 05-24-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veinboy View Post

What exactly is the RSx5 model that is improved that more than one person has recently stated that is not having the bulb failures compared to last year? I don't think that model number exists.

Last year there was the x3 (RS 40)
the x7 (RS 50)
the x9 (RS 60)

This year there is the x30 (RS 45)
the x70 (RS 55)
the x90 (RS 65)

RSx5 just means RS45/RS55/RS65. Yes, a little confusing because there is also a real "x3/x7/x9" model number.

Quote:


From just following the forum, it appears to be premature to say the bulb issue has been fixed until more people report long term use of the 003 bulb with the newer projectors. So far it just looks like anecdotal case reports here and there and finger crossing from what I've read because there haven't enough viewing hours yet.

I tend to agree. It's probably still too early to tell how well the 003 and/or "flapper" are performing.
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post #9168 of 9990 Old 05-24-2012, 10:04 AM
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I have a x3 and have had a bulb go and a engine that needed replacing.
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post #9169 of 9990 Old 05-28-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 3 View Post

Let's all understand some things. JVC does not make the lamp...nor do Sony, Epson, etc... The manufacturers spec a lamp and have companies such as Philips, Osram, etc...make them. In the case of the RS40/50/60 and consumer equivalent (they are the same lamp and model...you don't see the talks about the consumer issues as they sell way less here where these are discussed) the lamp filament was inadequate to begin with. That is why there were so many premature failures. The newest version has fixed the issue and the RSx5 series have those. Part of the reason you still see RS40 people having issues is use. Some people can take 2 years to put 300 hours on a unit, so they may just be getting to an issue.

It does stink, but things like this can happen in electronics as we all know.

How do you KNOW the newest version (003 w/flapper) has fixed the issue? If you do have proof, I'm sure a lot of folks here would like to see it, me included.

On the 2nd bolded point, this (quality issues) is certainly not unique to electronics, and it's not a result of anything unique about designing and manufacturing electronics or bulbs. In principle it's no different than Ford selling Pintos with gas tanks that explode or Chinese companies selling drywall that is defective (other than the consequences obviously being much less severe). The OEM failed to commit due diligence in developing their design, in managing their supplier and in verifying and validating their product. This is straight out of ISO 9001, AS9100, CMMI, etc. -- pick your favorite quality management system standard.

It is not rocket science to model or test thermal characteristics of a design. There are many good simulation applications available that a competent ME can use to determine if a cooling design is adequate. In my opinion, the fact that JVC has modified the enclosure design to alter the airflow after two configurations of the assembly have proven to be faulty shows that they did not adequately model or test the design before going to market. So don't count me as one who thinks this is the supplier's fault -- ensuring that a product meets its requirements is always the OEM's responsibility.

To their credit, they appear to be accepting responsibility and making it right. It appears to be a textbook case of inadequate quality assurance in planning the product.
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post #9170 of 9990 Old 05-28-2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 3 View Post
Let's all understand some things. JVC does not make the lamp...nor do Sony, Epson, etc... The manufacturers spec a lamp and have companies such as Philips, Osram, etc...make them. In the case of the RS40/50/60 and consumer equivalent (they are the same lamp and model...you don't see the talks about the consumer issues as they sell way less here where these are discussed) the lamp filament was inadequate to begin with. That is why there were so many premature failures. The newest version has fixed the issue and the RSx5 series have those. Part of the reason you still see RS40 people having issues is use. Some people can take 2 years to put 300 hours on a unit, so they may just be getting to an issue.

It does stink, but things like this can happen in electronics as we all know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

How do you KNOW the newest version (003 w/flapper) has fixed the issue? If you do have proof, I'm sure a lot of folks here would like to see it, me included.

On the 2nd bolded point, this (quality issues) is certainly not unique to electronics, and it's not a result of anything unique about designing and manufacturing electronics or bulbs. In principle it's no different than Ford selling Pintos with gas tanks that explode or Chinese companies selling drywall that is defective (other than the consequences obviously being much less severe). The OEM failed to commit due diligence in developing their design, in managing their supplier and in verifying and validating their product. This is straight out of ISO 9001, AS9100, CMMI, etc. -- pick your favorite quality management system standard.

It is not rocket science to model or test thermal characteristics of a design. There are many good simulation applications available that a competent ME can use to determine if a cooling design is adequate. In my opinion, the fact that JVC has modified the enclosure design to alter the airflow after two configurations of the assembly have proven to be faulty shows that they did not adequately model or test the design before going to market. So don't count me as one who thinks this is the supplier's fault -- ensuring that a product meets its requirements is always the OEM's responsibility.

To their credit, they appear to be accepting responsibility and making it right. It appears to be a textbook case of inadequate quality assurance in planning the product.

Jason,

We all appreciate your commenting on this matter but please consider that until we are shown that the new bulb design with the flapper works there is no assurance that we have not bought a long term bad product that was not adequately tested as quoted above. In the event that the latest flapper bulb doesn't fix the problem, which we probably won't know until mid summer, the only real remedy for us is a return of the projector for a credit. We all hope that JVC and AVS understands our dilemma to the fullest.

Also, there appears to also be an inconsistent HDMI handshake problem. This might normally only be an inconvenient irritant but the only remedy is to power off the unit by pulling the plug and consequently losing the fan that is supposed to be cooling down the aforementioned poorly designed bulb. My first RS40 had to be exchanged because of this and the second one is now doing it on occasion. Is there a remedy for this problem?

Jack
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post #9171 of 9990 Old 05-28-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post

[b]

Jason,

......................
Also, there appears to also be an inconsistent HDMI handshake problem. This might normally only be an inconvenient irritant but the only remedy is to power off the unit by pulling the plug and consequently losing the fan that is supposed to be cooling down the aforementioned poorly designed bulb. My first RS40 had to be exchanged because of this and the second one is now doing it on occasion. Is there a remedy for this problem?

According a post a month or two ago here on AVS (HERE), JVC (at least JVC in Europe) has a service bulletin out for a HDMI lockup fix that involves adding a resistor to one of the projector's circuit boards. That means sending the projector in for service. Perhaps someone at the AVS Store (Jason, Mark, etc.) knows if the same service bulletin applies in the US and if the simple hardware mod actually fixes the HDMI lockup issue with the JVC projectors.

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post #9172 of 9990 Old 05-29-2012, 09:08 AM
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Is it risky to buy b-stock RS40 from AVS ? Will they come with 003 bulbs ? Thanks.
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post #9173 of 9990 Old 05-29-2012, 09:17 AM
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That's a tough call that only you can make. I figured that if the RS40 didn't work out, it could be sold for close to what the B-stock price is. That made me feel like i had an "out" if the bulb business is not solved. The image the RS40 produces is worth that risk to me.

Now the first round of B-stocks had the 002 bulbs. Only AVS could say what this batch has.

Both AVS and JVC claim to be standing by these (as per AVS). But AVS can't fix something if it is inherently wrong.....if the bulbs, even the newest 003's, are just faulty. I have more faith that AVS will try to make it right if things continue to look bad for these lamps than I do of JVC doing so.

The way I look at it, I'll have 500 hours by the end of the summer. Hopefully, if it's going to die, it will happen before then and I can get an 003 replacement.
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post #9174 of 9990 Old 05-29-2012, 09:43 AM
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AVS did not check which bulb was coming or the bulb hours on the 1st batch.

Though I hate that there have been so many bulb issues others have reported, I feel more comfortable with AVS in the loop and the price I paid.
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post #9175 of 9990 Old 05-29-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

How do you KNOW the newest version (003 w/flapper) has fixed the issue? If you do have proof, I'm sure a lot of folks here would like to see it, me included.

On the 2nd bolded point, this (quality issues) is certainly not unique to electronics, and it's not a result of anything unique about designing and manufacturing electronics or bulbs. In principle it's no different than Ford selling Pintos with gas tanks that explode or Chinese companies selling drywall that is defective (other than the consequences obviously being much less severe). The OEM failed to commit due diligence in developing their design, in managing their supplier and in verifying and validating their product. This is straight out of ISO 9001, AS9100, CMMI, etc. -- pick your favorite quality management system standard.

It is not rocket science to model or test thermal characteristics of a design. There are many good simulation applications available that a competent ME can use to determine if a cooling design is adequate. In my opinion, the fact that JVC has modified the enclosure design to alter the airflow after two configurations of the assembly have proven to be faulty shows that they did not adequately model or test the design before going to market. So don't count me as one who thinks this is the supplier's fault -- ensuring that a product meets its requirements is always the OEM's responsibility.

To their credit, they appear to be accepting responsibility and making it right. It appears to be a textbook case of inadequate quality assurance in planning the product.

Ditto. I feel like we're JVC's beta tester for their first gen 3D projector with these new lamps. I was lead to believe that the 002 series of lamps was the answer, so forgive me if I'm not holding my breath that the 003 lamps are any better. And while JVC is replacing the lamps, how long will they continue to do so? And what happens if/when they stop? Compared to lamp for the Sony HW30, these JVC lamps aren't cheap. When we have to start paying for them, then what?

JVC has long held a great reputation on AVS forums for being excellent PJs with superb value. Personally, I'd like to see that continue. Sadly, I don't think that's going to be the case until they provide a permanent resolution to this issue. Call me nuts, but I think the only solution is a refund or an exchange for their next model which is hopefully a better engineered, redesigned model, not an RS*5.

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post #9176 of 9990 Old 05-31-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Call me nuts, but I think the only solution is a refund or an exchange for their next model which is hopefully a better engineered, redesigned model, not an RS*5.


NUTS! just kidding. If it were a fair world, and JVC could not fix this for us, you would be right. Unfortunately this is not a fair world and this is purely a numbers issue for JVC. What costs more:

1) Replacing all units with this issue with newer units. And if the bulbs are the issue, not the PJ, then this does nothing as the RSx5 series uses the same bulb anyway. If it IS a PJ issue, then they are certainly not going to replace two generations of PJ's.....not a chance.

2) Continuing to bandaid fix the issue with replacement bulbs until we all upgrade....even if they lose some customers.

It has to be cheaper to go with number 2. So we're stuck until/unless the bulbs are really fixed. I hope they are and that my 002 dies soon so I can replace it, recalibrate, and stop worrying about this issue and just enjoy the thing!
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post #9177 of 9990 Old 05-31-2012, 12:42 PM
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I picked up one of the B stock RS40s from AVS a couple of days ago. I plan on ceiling mounting the projector with about a 16' throw to a 120" screen. I'm having trouble finding information on how much vertical and horizontal lens shift the projector will allow. The entry into my theater is the middle of the back wall where I would like to mount the projector, so I will need to move it a couple of feet to the right.

I've search many threads and JVC's website but can not seem to find the answer. Can anybody help me out or point me in the right direction?
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post #9178 of 9990 Old 05-31-2012, 02:02 PM
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Maybe this can help: http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/jvc/102...9/lenshift.jpg

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post #9179 of 9990 Old 05-31-2012, 03:43 PM
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FYI the B-Stock RS40 I purchased from AVS last week has an 002 bulb. Firmware was 1.4. Lamp had one hour on it.
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post #9180 of 9990 Old 05-31-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justins123 View Post

FYI the B-Stock RS40 I purchased from AVS last week has an 002 bulb. Firmware was 1.4. Lamp had one hour on it.

If all of the second round of AVS B-Stocks have 002 lamps, seems JVC is asking for trouble.
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