Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I have a thought on the "ghosting diminishes after warm-up" issue. We know that one of DLP's biggest advantages wrt ghosting is that DLP mirrors switch at the speed of light (OK, really at the speed of its pivoting mirrors, which is extremely fast). There's no phosphor lag or LCD (and LCoS) transitioning for DLP mirrors (pixels) to contend with. Perhaps it's just a simple matter of D-ILA warming up enough to switch states faster. If this is a crock, someone please correct it. Maybe Chris or Gary could comment on the technical reason for it.

And lest we contribute to HP disinformation here, I think any "contribution" to ghosting by the HP is really a function of its brightness, not the HP itself. Ghosting is a function of the display and/or the glasses (and perhaps the individual's sensitivity), not the screen. Again, brightness is easy to fix, dimness not so much. Get the HP down to the same brightness level as other screens and I suspect the ghosting would be the same, with comparable improvement as the projector warms up. Further observations and measurements will prove or disprove that notion.

I draped up a 1.0 gain screen I had from a while back to show some friends the difference with the HP screen this weekend. The cold start up ghosting was not as noticeable on the lower gain screen, it's really just a function of the brightness that made it stand out.

When is your JVC arriving? curious to hear your comments. What is you main source of 3D BD playback? Dedicated player or HTPC?

ps. guys, take it easy with the screen shot comments. Most intelligent folks know you can't judge a projector in any way, shape or form from a SS. They are fun to look at, that's about it.

@ Montrosity12 - i've had RE Afterlife 3D for a little while, I'll be watching it again on the JVC later this week.

@ sam - agreed, the Acer is a fun 3D projector for the cost, and possibly a good alternative to someone thinking about replacing an RS25 / RS35, but as you stated, there are a number of limitations including the dedicated HTPC (unless they spend the $$ for the Optima XL adaper), placement issues, 720p, RBE, Color / Contrast can't match the JVC.

once my RS40 is warmed up, there isn't much incentive to want to fire up the Acer. I will keep it mainly for 2D TV viewing since the bulb is dirt cheap and the IQ is decent for watching TV.


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post #1532 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

Researching this issue, on the Nvidia forums, lots of folks are reporting "resolution" issues with the 260.xx line of drivers (the current release). Now upon quick check, I didn't see the same issue being reported (that of doubled horizontal resolution) as most of the posts there are game related, but it wouldn't surprise me that with different hardware one could get different results.

If someone could test the older drivers as linked to here:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=185427

BTW, these should solve any stuttering issues that occur with the 260.xx line.

Nvidia forums are reporting tons of issues with the 260.xx drivers:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...ilter=all&st=0

I am currently running a "hacked" (i.e. custom inf set of drivers to allow install onto my desktop based gts 450) v265 of drivers that seem to work pretty well, but am considering moving back to the <200 line of drivers as those worked even better.

I don't have my RS40 yet, so I can't test.

thanks for looking into this. I will try anything at this point, I just want my 430GT to sync to the RS40! I am forced to using a standalone BD player, I feel like i just stepped back into the stone age without access to my NAS.

I thought the older drivers didn't work in 3D with Powerdvd? I'll give this a shot tonight and report back.

edit: I should mention that I can see the post of the HTPC during the initial BIOS screen / Windows 7 boot, it's only once it syncs to the desktop that the JVC reports 2880x1080. I am hoping this is something in the drivers, but it only happens on the JVC, none of my other displays.


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post #1533 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I draped up a 1.0 gain screen I had from a while back to show some friends the difference with the HP screen this weekend. The cold start up ghosting was not as noticeable on the lower gain screen, it's really just a function of the brightness that made it stand out.

When is your JVC arriving? curious to hear your comments. What is you main source of 3D BD playback? Dedicated player or HTPC?

ps. guys, take it easy with the screen shot comments. Most intelligent folks know you can't judge a projector in any way, shape or form from a SS. They are fun to look at, that's about it.

@ Montrosity12 - i've had RE Afterlife 3D for a little while, I'll be watching it again on the JVC later this week.

No clue when my JVC will arrive. It depends on when AVS gets to my name on the list. I have a Panasonic 350 Blu-ray player, and a Sony 570, playing back on the Samsung PN63C8000 3D plasma. I'm probably going to put an nVidia 450 card in my everyday HTPC, and depending on how that goes, a higher end nVidia card in my editing rig. I have 3D checkerboard working on the Samsung via the HTPC, with a Radeon 4850 card and PowerDVD 10, but no Full HD 3D yet. Looks like I have my new 1.4 AVR, thanks to this thread. Many thanks for that, BTW. (I did some power-reviewing last night. )

Edit: Ordinarily, I wouldn't do a blind buy for a receiver, but I have some experience with Yamaha, and that's why I feel more comfortable about this purchase.

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post #1534 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post

Hey Damnsam -

Do you plan on buying Resident Evil Afterlife 3d coming out around Dec. 28th.

I would really love to hear your impressions.

I am pretty much getting every blockbuster 3D title I can get my hands on for under $30.

This includes Resident Evil 3D and Step Up 3D (both shot natively in 3D).

I would love to have the Shrek Collection, How to Train You Dragon, Monsters Vs Aliens, and Street Dance 3D (Hint hint anyone )

i will report back on both RE-3D and Set up3D, the latter of which I should be getting tomorrow in the mail, which I was told would be quite a work out as far as ghosting for the JVC in 3D.

CEDAR PEAKS CINEMA (Now w/ 3D)

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post #1535 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I thought the older drivers didn't work in 3D with Powerdvd?

Yeah, you can't go back very far to older drivers without losing 3D support. When I discussed the issue with Nvidia they offered plenty of suggestions but going back to older drivers was never mentioned.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #1536 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

...I believe Gary B from JVC mentioned there is ~20 minute period until the system is at even operating temperature and final convergence settles in...

Of course I'd rather there not be a warm up period at all, but 20 minutes isn't objectionable. I'll just fire up the pj a bit in advance while I'm still preparing to start the movie - making popcorn etc. And the good news is that at least it does go get better after the warm up period - much better than it persisting...
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post #1537 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Of course I'd rather there not be a warm up period at all, but 20 minutes isn't objectionable. I'll just fire up the pj a bit in advance while I'm still preparing to start the movie - making popcorn etc. And the good news is that at least it does go get better after the warm up period - much better than it persisting...

Me too, anyway.. we all must consider this warm up period a waste of util lamp life ...
Sum I mean 10 -20 minutes everytime you light on the vpr and in a year we loose a part of lamp life in warm up ....
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post #1538 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 01:07 PM
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FWIW I tend to put my projector on, then setup some of my room treatments (aka Bat tent and dark throws on the other sofa that I don't sit on when watching a film). I tend to put on some TV for those 20 minutes or so as well, especially if there's some series I like to catch up on. That way once the film proper starts, the projector is fully warmed up and the (usual) BluRay looks even better after watching some low bit rate SD.

Considering the lamp hours I've spent doing calibration a warm up prior to a 3-5 hour viewing session doesn't seem that bad and it's not like I don't see anything while this is happening.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #1539 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 01:35 PM
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I just had the BEST 3D experience EVER! I left my HT room and fired up the HD-FB2005, that's Harley Davidson Fatboy 2005!

Wow! My RS40 will never be able to beat that! 79 degrees on December 20th! Not even with a HP screen!

While riding, I was however wondering what I was going to watch this evening!!!!

GO HABS GO!
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post #1540 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I am pretty much getting every blockbuster 3D title I can get my hands on for under $30.

This includes Resident Evil 3D and Step Up 3D (both shot natively in 3D).

I would love to have the Shrek Collection, How to Train You Dragon, Monsters Vs Aliens, and Street Dance 3D (Hint hint anyone )

i will report back on both RE-3D and Set up3D, the latter of which I should be getting tomorrow in the mail, which I was told would be quite a work out as far as ghosting for the JVC in 3D.

I watched Step-Up 3D yesterday. I wasn't looking for any ghosting and I didn't see any ghosting through the entire movie. The only ghosting I saw was on a blue logo on a white background before the movie started.
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post #1541 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zbroke View Post

I just had the BEST 3D experience EVER! I left my HT room and fired up the HD-FB2005, that's Harley Davidson Fatboy 2005!

Wow! My RS40 will never be able to beat that! 79 degrees on December 20th! Not even with a HP screen!

While riding, I was however wondering what I was going to watch this evening!!!!

HAHA! That's awesome!!! Now if you can only shoot yourself driving your Fatboy in 3D, that would be so AWESOM-O!!!

CEDAR PEAKS CINEMA (Now w/ 3D)

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post #1542 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 01:52 PM
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Have you guys noticed eye fatigue from watching in 3D?

Joe.T
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post #1543 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post
HAHA! That's awesome!!! Now if you can only shoot yourself driving your Fatboy in 3D, that would be so AWESOM-O!!!
Shoot yourself...humm...are you saying you'd watch that suicide if it's in 3D?

J/K...

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post #1544 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 01:57 PM
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Do any of you guys regret cheaping out and buying the RS40 instead of the much superior RS50? Did you know that the RS50 is THX 3D certified? and the RS40 isn't?

Im pretty sure that THX means that there will be at least half the ghosting of what you guys are getting with the RS40. SUcks to be poor
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post #1545 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post
SUcks to be poor
I know! With the money I saved going with the 40, I was able to afford an OPPO-93, A Denon 3311CI, the 3D emitter and 4 (yes FOUR) XPAND 103 glasses. If I was rich I would have went with the JVC glasses...

GO HABS GO!
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post #1546 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post
Do any of you guys regret cheaping out and buying the RS40 instead of the much superior RS50? Did you know that the RS50 is THX 3D certified? and the RS40 isn't?

Im pretty sure that THX means that there will be at least half the ghosting of what you guys are getting with the RS40. SUcks to be poor
I would think that people paying $4400 for a tv are not exactly poor. At the $4400 price point I would think that the buyer has a decent amount of cash. Poor is a very bad description.
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post #1547 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post
If this is so then why has no one (that I am aware of) measured anything close to 1300 lumens?

In past years, many people had measurements close to JVC's specifications.

The same seems to be true for Contrast specifications.

I am not trying to be disagreeable but there seems to be a disconnect between specs and measurements.


For maximum brightness, you have to set the X7 / X9 into "Off" Profile. This will result in a brightnes around 1200 lumens but with a Red deficit of 40% to D65. For the X3, you have to choose the Hi Bright Color Temperture.

By the way, 6500K ist not the right setting for 3D, as the glasses absorb a significant amount of blue.

Regards,
Ekkehart
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post #1548 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:16 PM
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I would think that people paying $4400 for a tv are not exactly poor. At the $4400 price point I would think that the buyer has a decent amount of cash. Poor is a very bad description.
His whole post is yankin' our chain.

EDIT: AND making a really good poke at marketing gibberish.
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post #1549 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
For maximum brightness, you have to set the X7 / X9 into "Off" Profile. This will result in a brightnes around 1200 lumens but with a Red deficit of 40% to D65. For the X3, you have to choose the Hi Bright Color Temperture.

By the way, 6500K ist not the right setting for 3D, as the glasses absorb a significant amount of blue.

Regards,
Ekkehart
Interesting? So what is the right setting for 3D then? And does your statement re: glasses absorbing a significant amount of blue pertain ONLY to the JVC glasses, or is this something you've observed with other brands (e.g. the Xpand 103s)?
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post #1550 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
By the way, 6500K ist not the right setting for 3D, as the glasses absorb a significant amount of blue.
Thanks for the info. It confirms what most have speculated. It makes sense that 6500K, which is accurate with out glasses, would no longer be accurate with tinted glasses on.
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post #1551 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
His whole post is yankin' our chain.

EDIT: AND making a really good poke at marketing gibberish.
you would think so lol but ironically he really means it.
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post #1552 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post
I think people have misunderstood this whole 1300 Lumens thing. The bulb does go into high mode...the highest wattage it can produce. But in 3D mode the contrast is reduced (as also noticed by Cine4home). So the pixels do not go as "light" (or to be more precise, rotate allowing the most light through) as they normally do. So the effective lumens is lower. The reason JVC increased the lumens was to alter the starting point otherwise in 3D mode it would be even lower! However someone who can, should verify how many lumens there are in 2D mode at 8500k on high lamp. It is a proportional thing. If the loss is 25% in 3D mode, then having the 1300 lumen capable bulb has made that loss more similar to the max we had with the previous models.

Yes, you analysis is sort of right, congratulation!

Here is the "Light-Break-Down":

1200 Lumens max without any Color correction at all (-40% Red)

---> 800 - 900 Lumens at 8000K
------> 400 - 450 Lumens in 3D mode (on the screen)
----------> 150-165 Lumen in 3D (behind the glasses)


---> 700 - 810 Lumens in 2D with D65 calibration.


All values in lamp Hi mode of course.

Hope this clears it out now.

Best regards,
Ekkehart
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post #1553 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post
you would think so lol but ironically he really means it.
Uh... really?? Oh, I'm... uh... speechless. I though it was brilliant irony.
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post #1554 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:28 PM
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post #1555 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post
Thanks for the info. It confirms what most have speculated. It makes sense that 6500K, which is accurate with out glasses, would no longer be accurate with tinted glasses on.
But if you calibrate behind the glasses, then you can calibrate to D65 because that is what your eyes will then see.

The question is, is the 3D setting of 8500k closer to D65 when wearing the glasses or still far far out.

Today I was trying out, on an RS50/X7, 8500k, A(3D) gamma, and changing colour profile to Standard (Wide 1 I believe on an X3). So this is effectively the Rec 709 colour profile but applied to an 8500k colour temperature to offset the glasses. Seems to look quite good to me!

I have found with the Shrek movies particularly that the default 3D colour is so over-saturated that it actually also makes things look dull/heavy.
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post #1556 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:29 PM
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Awwright, Conan... what the he!! does THAT mean? Who is right? I still think I'm right. You're just brilliant, right?
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post #1557 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
---> 700 - 800 Lumens in 2D with D65 calibration.
Thanks Ekkehart. Is that for both models?

Looking at some previous numbers you guys have measured I see for high lamp, iris open, and shortest throw:

HD550/RS15:
D65: 840 lumens
Native: 910 lumens

HD950/RS25:
D65: 710 lumens

I know these values can vary from projector/lamp to projector/lamp, but from these numbers it is looking like the new models may not be brighter than last years at D65.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #1558 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:39 PM
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So, in a nutshell are the new projectors any brighter than the older ones in 2D?? Seems like the answer is NO.

And if so, that puts JVC squarely into the realm of deceptive marketing.
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post #1559 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post
But if you calibrate behind the glasses, then you can calibrate to D65 because that is what your eyes will then see.

The question is, is the 3D setting of 8500k closer to D65 when wearing the glasses or still far far out.

Today I was trying out, on an RS50/X7, 8500k, A(3D) gamma, and changing colour profile to Standard (Wide 1 I believe on an X3). So this is effectively the Rec 709 colour profile but applied to an 8500k colour temperature to offset the glasses. Seems to look quite good to me!


This is already a good setup you chose without further calibration.

Regards,
Ekkehart
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post #1560 of 10016 Old 12-20-2010, 02:43 PM
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From THX.com

During the THX 3D certification process, more than 400 laboratory tests are conducted, evaluating Left and Right Eye images for color accuracy, cross-talk, viewing angles and video processing performance. This testing is critical because a THX Certified 3D TV must present both Left and Right eye images accurately, with minimal artifacts, to ensure a pristine 3D effect for the viewer.

However, since most of us spend the majority of our time watching 2D TV programs and other content, all THX 3D Certified Displays undergo a rigorous design and laboratory testing process to also ensure exceptional 2D image quality. The result is the JVC RS50 THX 2D and 3D Cinema Modes which, with a simple push of a button, present stunning 2D and 3D movie experiences from broadcast sources and Blu-ray Discs.

Performance Benefits
400 Bench Tests: THX testing delivers accurate images and pristine video processing performance in both Left and Right Eye images.
Accurate Color Reproduction: 3D adds a layer of complexity to achieve accurate color. THX certification closely reproduces the HD Color Standard used by filmmakers for broadcast and Blu-ray Discs in both 2D and 3D Modes.
Simplified Set-up: With the push of a button, selecting THX 2D and 3D Cinema Modes delivers the closest thing to a pre-calibrated video setting right out-of-the-box.
Sharper Pictures: THX certification improves 2D and 3D de-interlacing and jaggies, ensuring sharp images.


THX Optimized Settings
THX Cinema: A simple, one-button solution
for reproducing accurate color used by
filmmakers in the studio.

THX Bright Room: Bright Room Mode sets
luminance, color, blacks, and gamma for
typical bright room conditions.

THX 3D Cinema: Sets luminance, color,
blacks, gamma and video processing for 3D
broadcasts and Blu-ray Discs.

In our testing the RS40 did not meet our demanding tests and failed to receive a 3D THX certification. One major concern with the RS40 was the horrendous amount of crosstalk visible in both content and test patterns.
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