3D projectors with Nvidia Graphics card issue -Alternate HTPC ideas inside - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 260 Old 02-16-2011, 01:14 PM
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well after 2 weeks of going back and forth through nvidia support system and one phone call today the GT430 is now going to be used for taget practice!

According to nvidia the reason i have sync issues with the denon is because the JVC rs40 is not supported. Even though it works directly plugged into the projector. they will not help you unless every device in the link is listed on there website.

I tried explaining to them three times and the pretty much the response was oh well. So i proceeded to tell them where they could put that card and told them to get there "stuff" together.

no wonder ati is walking all over them.

I cant stand script readers that think they know more then you. In the 10+ years i have been in a testing lab i have found so many bugs and driver issues with both ATI & Nvidia it is not funny.

oh well back to ati.
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post #182 of 260 Old 02-16-2011, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjam_20 View Post

well after 2 weeks of going back and forth through nvidia support system and one phone call today the GT430 is now going to be used for taget practice!

Hi, I wanted to ask a while back, can you sync through all 3 frequencies on the ATI card? The Nvidia will go back and forth between 60hz and 24hz (FP) if I have 3D mode enabled in the Nvidia drivers. I haven't found a way to get it to go straight 24hz without disabling the 3D mode.

This is a buzzkill for watching regular 2D BD content on the HTPC without cycling through the 3D modes which isn't viable. Can the ATI handle all 3 without issue?

if you say yes, I'll find a large enough case/mobo to hold this 6850 I still have. In the meantime, I am switching to my Popcorn Hour C200 for 2D content and using the HTPC for 3D BD and 60hz TV viewing (I have the Ceton Quad tuner for MCE7). It would be nice to use the HTPC for all viewing.
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post #183 of 260 Old 02-16-2011, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, I wanted to ask a while back, can you sync through all 3 frequencies on the ATI card? The Nvidia will go back and forth between 60hz and 24hz (FP) if I have 3D mode enabled in the Nvidia drivers. I haven't found a way to get it to go straight 24hz without disabling the 3D mode.

This is a buzzkill for watching regular 2D BD content on the HTPC without cycling through the 3D modes which isn't viable. Can the ATI handle all 3 without issue?

if you say yes, I'll find a large enough case/mobo to hold this 6850 I still have. In the meantime, I am switching to my Popcorn Hour C200 for 2D content and using the HTPC for 3D BD and 60hz TV viewing (I have the Ceton Quad tuner for MCE7). It would be nice to use the HTPC for all viewing.

The way you switch to 24(FP) with ATI is different. It automatically switches to 24(FP) in full screen when you start a 3D BD in your software player. If you stop the movie or exit full screen for whatever reason, it goes back to your previous 2D setting (which can be 23.976hz or 60hz or whatever your desktop is set to). I have no experience with the 3rd party 3D drivers that enable you to turn the desktop into 3D with ATI cards, but for just 3D BD playback, it seems ATI/AMD is "cleaner" and more convenient because you dont have to open the driver and mess with things every time you want to watch a 3dBD.
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post #184 of 260 Old 02-16-2011, 10:13 PM
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Zombie,

So far i have not had any troubles changing between the resolutions but i must warn that i keep my desktop at 24hz because it is just easier since almost everthing i watch is 24hz.

the last post is correct about the software changes the resolution for 3D only, In my case that would be TMT5.


The only problem i have seen is when playing mkv's with media player classic HC i would get tearing on the bottom 3 iches of the screen. Which is not visible unless you are watching a 1.85:1 movie.

I have yet to try with the latest ATI 11.2 drivers though.
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post #185 of 260 Old 02-17-2011, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjam_20 View Post

The only problem i have seen is when playing mkv's with media player classic HC i would get tearing on the bottom 3 iches of the screen.

For MPC playback, have you tried using the madVR renderer? Solves many issues for a lot of people, and improves PQ. I believe it also ensures full software decoding without any of the tricks that are built into the video card drivers like dynamic contrast and such (which could be the cause of your tearing)
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post #186 of 260 Old 02-18-2011, 04:13 AM
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Hi

I have just received my X3 and im running my HTPC with GT430 (Latest Drivers) through a Yamaha RX767 hdmi1.4 receiver (1.4 cables). I am having some issues and wondered if you found a solution?

I cant get my projector to accept 1080/50 or 60hz either through my receiver or directly, only 24hz works. All I get is a coloured mess or black/blue screen. When trying to enable 3D Vision I lose picture and cannot go through the wizard. Does this sound right?

Also 2D issues:

2D TMT3 picture smooth 24hz but no HD audio.
2D TMT5 some disks dont get past loading screens, pic smooth when working and full HD audio.
2D Powerdvd 10 Mark II Jittery picture every 10 seconds no HD audio.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Andy
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post #187 of 260 Old 02-18-2011, 09:34 AM
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Hello all I am currently in the processes of buliding a home theater I am also building a htpc for movie and music storage. I wanted to know what would be the best video card for my setup: Rs 50---Onkyo 5008----Htpc...I was going to buy the gt 430 but have heard about the sync issues its having are there any video cards that work going thru avr 1.4a to RS 50

Thank you
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post #188 of 260 Old 02-18-2011, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noshandy View Post

Hi

When trying to enable 3D Vision I lose picture and cannot go through the wizard. Does this sound right?

Also 2D issues:

2D TMT3 picture smooth 24hz but no HD audio.
2D TMT5 some disks dont get past loading screens, pic smooth when working and full HD audio.

Andy

the 3d vision going black seems to be a driver issue and i tried working on it with nvidia but they do not care right now. Until the JVC rs40 goes up as a aproved 3d device you will probably get the smae response i did which was "we cant help you because the RS40 is not supported"

TMT3: make sure you have the hotfixes installed for the nvidia hd audio. I am not sure if this is rolled into the latest update. if not they can be found in the TMT3 forums.

TMT5: I have never had an issue. all i can say is make sure you have the latest updates
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post #189 of 260 Old 02-18-2011, 10:31 AM
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ballers34,

If it were me i would currently go with a ATI 6850. it is not a small/low profile card but it is not huge by any means.

untill nvidia gets there head out of there you know what, the ati is really the only option that just works!
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post #190 of 260 Old 02-18-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjam_20 View Post

ballers34,

If it were me i would currently go with a ATI 6850. it is not a small/low profile card but it is not huge by any means.

untill nvidia gets there head out of there you know what, the ati is really the only option that just works!

Thank you for your help so the ati 6850 works with the onkyo to rs 50 with no issues?
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post #191 of 260 Old 02-18-2011, 11:58 AM
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i can not gaurantee that it will work in that config as i do not have a onkyo 55xx. The clicks drove me nuts!

but the ATI 6850 is working with my denon 4311 to rs40.

If you have store with a good return policy like a fry's or best buy i would go pick one up from there and if it does not work return it.

I am lucky as i have access to almost every production card and some non production cards to try before i buy. I am still working on my tearing issue with MPC-HC.
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post #192 of 260 Old 02-21-2011, 06:58 PM
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Running the v266.58.

I watched my first 3D movie last night. After enabling 3D support in the NV CP, I got "3D HD" resolutions section in the resolutions pane in the CP. The two options are 1080p 23/24 or 720p 50/60.

In this state, under the normal HD resolutions, I could now only select 50/60Hz for the available 1080p resolutions. You go to "Customize Resolutions" and 23Hz is available and checked (I added it before) but not available to actually use.

The problem with this is that using the 3D HD modes to get 23/24Hz results in a frame-packed mode which seems to result in the inferior PQ with some occasional stutter when the RS40 is not in 3D mode and using MPC-HC. So I had to disable 3D mode to get my normal resolutions available without FP.

Am I missing something there? Should that be easier?
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post #193 of 260 Old 02-21-2011, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

The problem with this is that using the 3D HD modes to get 23/24Hz results in a frame-packed mode which seems to result in the inferior PQ with some occasional stutter when the RS40 is not in 3D mode and using MPC-HC. So I had to disable 3D mode to get my normal resolutions available without FP.

Am I missing something there? Should that be easier?

yes it should be easier, and is the real obstacle to using the card for 2D 24P playback.

My HTPC is used for 3D BD playback and 1080p 60hz viewing TV through MCE7 and the Ceton quad tuner card. This works fine going back and forth between regular 60hz and 24(FP) for 3D playback.

If I want to watch 2D BD in just 24p mode, I have to disable the Nvidia 3D. I created shortcut on the desktop to disable / enable it, but it's a pain and takes the automation of using the HTPC for TV / Movies. Right now I swap over to my Popcorn Hour C200 for 2D BD and use the HTPC for HDTV and 3D BD viewing.

Nvidia could probably fix this so the desktop doesn't go into 24(FP) mode without a 3D signal coming from the player (powerdvd or TMT5).
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post #194 of 260 Old 02-21-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjam_20 View Post


but the ATI 6850 is working with my denon 4311 to rs40.

I have a ATI 6850, Denon 4311 and JVC X3. Since applying the latest Denon firmware update to fix the blue rain issue (which I didn't have) I can't get the combo to pass 1080p 24fp. TMT 5 latest outputs 720p 60fp and then craps out later and Powerdvd latest just says isn't a 3d display.

All worked fine for me before I applied latest firmware update to Denon receiver. Have you applied the latest firmware on the Denon? If so can you tell me as much of your settings as possible. I've tried ATI drivers 10.11, 10.12, 11.1 and 11.2. Do get slightly different results but doesn't work properly with any of them. I'm running Windows 7, 32 bit. I can use a modified edid to get it to work, but that causes other issues for me.

I've tried the Denon with video processing on and off with no difference and also tried changing the other hdmi settings just in case with no result.

Thanks,
Dave.
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post #195 of 260 Old 02-22-2011, 08:35 AM
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I do have the latest update on the denon. I am not having any problems. The denon is set to default. I did not change anything.

ATI i am using the 10.10 with the d hotfix. The only thing i do in ATI control panel is set the ovescan to 0 because that is what it takes to fill the screen completely.

Other then that everything else is just default and working.

I am going to try the 11.2 driver this weekend.
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post #196 of 260 Old 02-22-2011, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjam_20 View Post

I do have the latest update on the denon. I am not having any problems. The denon is set to default. I did not change anything.

ATI i am using the 10.10 with the d hotfix. The only thing i do in ATI control panel is set the ovescan to 0 because that is what it takes to fill the screen completely.

Other then that everything else is just default and working.

I am going to try the 11.2 driver this weekend.

I've been considering a switch to ATI due to the numerous Nvidia issues and read that 11.2 is working pretty good for most folks including the video level accuracy for desktop and video.

Was thinking of a 5570 or 5670. I do want a 3D HDMI 1.4 setup - anyone have any thoughts?
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post #197 of 260 Old 02-22-2011, 12:39 PM
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i could be completely wrong but i think the 6 series are the only hdmi 1.4 cards that fully support bluray 3d

http://www.amd.com/us/products/techn...-hardware.aspx
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post #198 of 260 Old 02-22-2011, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjam_20 View Post

i could be completely wrong but i think the 6 series are the only hdmi 1.4 cards that fully support bluray 3d

http://www.amd.com/us/products/techn...-hardware.aspx

Now that table looks definitive and supports your view. But looking at the specs for say a 5570:

5570 specs

it states:

"3D stereoscopic display/glasses support"

but perhaps that's for game play or something and BD 3D is different format.

Ah, we need a standard for 3D.
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post #199 of 260 Old 02-23-2011, 09:51 AM
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i think that is for games. I tried a 5450 with my set up and it would out put 1080p24fp but the HD audio would drop out all of the time. The core audio would work with no problems.

I would honestly stick with a 6 series card or if you like the punishment you can go with the nvidia.

The nvidia cards do seem to work for some people but just with some quirks. Depending on if the card likes your reciever or not is depending on how bad it is.

Like i said in an earlier post if you have a store with a good return policy around you pick one up and try it.
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post #200 of 260 Old 02-23-2011, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjam_20 View Post

I do have the latest update on the denon. I am not having any problems. The denon is set to default. I did not change anything.

ATI i am using the 10.10 with the d hotfix. The only thing i do in ATI control panel is set the ovescan to 0 because that is what it takes to fill the screen completely.

Other then that everything else is just default and working.

I am going to try the 11.2 driver this weekend.

Thanks for that. Yes works fine for me with the 10.10d drivers. Didn't even know they existed!

3D was working fine for me with 10.12 and 11.1 drivers before updating the firmware on my Denon. After firmware update 3d wouldn't work for me (or would only output 720p60fp) with 10.12, 11.1 or 11.2 drivers. Can you post back how you go with the 11.2 drivers, will be interesting to see if they work for you.

Thanks,
Dave.
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post #201 of 260 Old 02-23-2011, 11:58 PM
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With the AMD cards, if i connect the HDMI to my TV for 3D playback, can I use a Displayport>HDMI adapter to get bistreamed audio to my AVR?
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post #202 of 260 Old 02-24-2011, 09:38 AM
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ausvette: No problem. i will let you know when i try this weekend

J5: In theory yes this should work. It should also work with the DVI-HDMI adapter that comes with some of those cards.

Now having said that it is a little bit more of a pain to get the dual out to work. I think is was zombie and i that were trying with the 5450 which did not have a display port.

In our case the only way we could get the audio to the reciever was to use the HDMI - to the Reciever and DVI-HDMI to the display. It would not work the other way if i remeber correctly.

Also in the ATI control panel it will see your reciever as a display and it will have to be enabled in order for windows to see it and output audio.
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post #203 of 260 Old 02-25-2011, 01:45 AM
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jjam thanks for the reply.

I know that some older 4xxx series ATI cards could send LPCM through a special DVI>HDMI adapter that came with the card, or you could get one from ATI for like $40 or something.

However, I'm not sure that is the case with the newer cards. I've tried a few adapters now (none that came with this card though), and the AMD driver immediately pops-up that annoying "you've connected an HDMI device through a DVI adapter, and therefore will not get audio..." message.

Nvidia on the other hand seems to work flawlessly with any DVI>HDMI adapter, bitstream and PCM, and even giving you the opportunity to switch from RGB and YCbCr. AMD does not give you the "Pixel Format" tab in CCC when using a DVI>HDMI adapter.

Unfortunately I have to use the HDMI straight to my PJ so i can get 1080/24(FP) 3D video because a DVI>HDMI adapter will not work for this purpose... or will it? I haven't even tried it yet.

I have tried using the H55 clarkdale motherboard with my 5770. I wanted to use the H55 motherboard's HDMI for audio and the 5770's HDMI for 3D video, but TMT5 crashed on startup with two different HDMI devices enabled. I had to either remove the video card or disable the H55's HDMI in order for TMT5 to work. Probably a protected path thing...who knows. Maybe the H67 will work better since it actually supports 3D.

Has anyone tried Win7 SP1 yet? Supposedly some HDMI issues have been addressed.
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post #204 of 260 Old 02-25-2011, 06:05 PM
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Wondering if an AMD Athlon ll X4 640 3.0 GHZ 64 bit quad-core with a Blu-ray drive & GT430 graphics card would be good enough to do 3d to my Acer 5360 projector.............don't do alot of gaming so thats not really a concern Basically for 3d movies.............Any help would be appreciated.....
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post #205 of 260 Old 02-26-2011, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougES View Post

Wondering if an AMD Athlon ll X4 640 3.0 GHZ 64 bit quad-core with a Blu-ray drive & GT430 graphics card would be good enough to do 3d to my Acer 5360 projector.............don't do alot of gaming so thats not really a concern Basically for 3d movies.............Any help would be appreciated.....

that setup should be more than enough, the GT430 is doing most of the work decoding the BD content. I had a core i3 setup with 2 GB ram and the 430GT running my Acer 5360 / Ndivia vision setup with PDVD10 and TMT5.
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post #206 of 260 Old 02-28-2011, 10:36 AM
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Zombie or someone who might know please help.

Im having issues getting smooth 24p playback from MKV files. Blurays play fine at 24p through TMT5 or PowerDVD10, but I get occasional stutter from PowerDVD10 when I try playing MKV at 24hz. TMT5 keeps freezing up when switching to 24hz.

I have the Geforce gt430 card.

I also tried using MPC HC, but 24hz playback is out of sync and does stutter.

Is there anyway to play MKV with Power DVD10 or TMT5 at 24hz without issue?

What is my best option to get MKVs playing at 24hz with the geforce 430? If anyone can tell me how to get this working step by step, I would really appreciate it.

I don't mind starting from scratch and getting all new programs and just using TMT5 for bluray playback.

I looked at Reclock but it seems that it will not allow bitstream audio to be used with it, which makes it useless to me.

I can't believe how annoying it is to get 24p playback to work correctly on an HTPC with MKV files. Especially when you pay 100 bucks to get a program like Power DVD10 and it still does not work correctly.

Also what settings should I be using in the Nvidia control panel? Im using default settings with RGB colour space.
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post #207 of 260 Old 02-28-2011, 12:41 PM
 
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For those using the ATI 6850, have you noticed an improvement on 3D bluray ghosting over the nvidia cards? I have a nvidia 460 and the ghosting is pretty bad on the RS40....I tried all versions of drivers and the ghosting is the same. Probably the comment about Nvidia not supporting this projector yet is a problem. I did not have any ghosting with the 460 and my old optoma gt720. If the 6850 ghosting is much better, I'd make the jump.

Thanks
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post #208 of 260 Old 02-28-2011, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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For those using the ATI 6850, have you noticed an improvement on 3D bluray ghosting over the nvidia cards? I have a nvidia 460 and the ghosting is pretty bad on the RS40....I tried all versions of drivers and the ghosting is the same. Probably the comment about Nvidia not supporting this projector yet is a problem. I did not have any ghosting with the 460 and my old optoma gt720. If the 6850 ghosting is much better, I'd make the jump.

Thanks

ghosting is a factor of the projector, not the source player or the source content. I have the Acer 5360 so I know what ghost-free 3D DLP images look like. Unfortunately, the LCOS and SXRD panels in the JVC and Sony appear to be more prone to ghosting than DLP.

Worse yet, is that there is likely some manufacturing variances between copies of each projector. I had an RS40 where the ghosting was noticeable, but my replacement RS50 is better. This isn't in the specs, so there could be some variances as they being built.

Are you letting 20-30 minutes pass by? it's a general consensus that the JVC's need a 'warm up' time before the ghosting is reduced by quite a bit.

let me know what 3D content you are watching, I have just about everything that's been released in 3D and can confirm certain scenes.
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post #209 of 260 Old 02-28-2011, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

ghosting is a factor of the projector, not the source player or the source content. I have the Acer 5360 so I know what ghost-free 3D DLP images look like. Unfortunately, the LCOS and SXRD panels in the JVC and Sony appear to be more prone to ghosting than DLP.

Worse yet, is that there is likely some manufacturing variances between copies of each projector. I had an RS40 where the ghosting was noticeable, but my replacement RS50 is better. This isn't in the specs, so there could be some variances as they being built.

Are you letting 20-30 minutes pass by? it's a general consensus that the JVC's need a 'warm up' time before the ghosting is reduced by quite a bit.

let me know what 3D content you are watching, I have just about everything that's been released in 3D and can confirm certain scenes.

Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, I have let the projector warm up for 1 hour plus and the results are pretty much the same. I see ghosting in pretty much all 3d bluray except avatar. Despicable me is probably the worst....especially the ending sequence with the guys with the ladder. Under the Sea....ghosting is noticed throughout the movie. I am using PDVD 10 and the 460 straight to the projector. I'm not sure which firmware version i have on the Rs40...wonder if I should try upgrading that. Not sure if that would affect ghosting.
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Originally Posted by bachuka View Post

Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, I have let the projector warm up for 1 hour plus and the results are pretty much the same. I see ghosting in pretty much all 3d bluray except avatar. Despicable me is probably the worst....especially the ending sequence with the guys with the ladder. Under the Sea....ghosting is noticed throughout the movie. I am using PDVD 10 and the 460 straight to the projector. I'm not sure which firmware version i have on the Rs40...wonder if I should try upgrading that. Not sure if that would affect ghosting.

Wow your experience is almost EXACTLY like mine. I first tried 3D on my RS40 with an AMD 5770 card and was really surprised at how much ghosting there was, given the gushing ghost-free feedback early in the RS40 thread, so I chalked it up to the 5xxx cards not officially supporting HDMI 1.4, and got an Nvidia 450 card to test. With the Nvidia card, the ghosting seems to be almost the same...maybe a slight improvement. I do prefer the auto-switch into 3D mode that the AMD cards have, so you dont have to go into the driver and switch your whole desktop into 3D for no reason.

From my observation, it seems that the objects that have ghosting are the ones with more pronounced 3D pop-out effect.

I recall that Avatar appear to have a mostly "deep" style of 3D instead of an "in your face" feeling, which is probably why it doesn't show the ghosting on the RS40 that other movies do.

Despicable Me was pretty disappointing, because the things that are really supposed to pop out at you tend to just seem like they "go cross-eyed" instead of coming farther towards you. However, the shallow 3D effects looked great! Gru's pointy nose was always perfect throughout the movie.

I know it's probably the panel variance between projectors and probably not fixable even with a JVC firmware update, but I'm still holding onto some hope that it is a HTPC software player thing. Someone mentioned that standalone bluray players have a "screen size" adjustment that I haven't found in the video card drivers or the software player interface.

If TMT5's 3D playback was designed around small-size computer monitors and short viewing distances, maybe that could explain why "shallow" 3D looks great but anything that tries to pop-out further seems to hit a wall and starts doubling up/ghosting and crossing over into itself. With my 92" screen, I'd say things generally look good up until they try to pop out more than 3 feet off of the screen. I really need to borrow a PS3 or some other player though. I just can't believe there would be so much variation between units that some people would get an amazing experience while others are left with a "see, I told you this 3D stuff was just a gimmick, put on the 2D version!" taste in their mouth.

All that being said, I've only tested Despicable Me, Alice, and the first 10 minutes of RE4. I'll have to test the movies people mention being ghost-free, such as Avatar and the owl movie.
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