JVC RS40/X3 Calibration Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum

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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering
04:37 PM Liked: 397
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01-25-2011 | Posts: 7,237
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Calibrated the 40 last night using the new Radiance Mini. The Lumagen really takes this projector to the next level with a completely dead on result for color, grayscale and gamma. The improvements in the image were immediately noticeable so anyone looking to get the nth degree from this already spectacular value should really considering putting the Lumagen in their system.
Shepardos's Avatar Shepardos
04:39 PM Liked: 10
post #92 of 431
01-25-2011 | Posts: 174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Calibrated the 40 last night using the new Radiance Mini. The Lumagen really takes this projector to the next level with a completely dead on result for color, grayscale and gamma. The improvements in the image were immediately noticeable so anyone looking to get the nth degree from this already spectacular value should really considering putting the Lumagen in their system.

What was your Base!? Userprofile with Wide1? Can you please share your Approach!?
dangc's Avatar dangc
04:59 PM Liked: 10
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01-25-2011 | Posts: 641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Calibrated the 40 last night using the new Radiance Mini. The Lumagen really takes this projector to the next level with a completely dead on result for color, grayscale and gamma. The improvements in the image were immediately noticeable so anyone looking to get the nth degree from this already spectacular value should really considering putting the Lumagen in their system.

Hi Kris,

I have been looking for some feedback with this combo and heavily considering it. Are you using the Radiance Mini with with a package like CalMan or built in tools that Lumagen provides with unit to perform calibration? Is the Radiance pretty strait forward to use and make adjustments?

Thanks
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering
05:00 PM Liked: 397
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01-25-2011 | Posts: 7,237
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I believe I used Film with Wide 1 color profile but I'll have to check.
Toe's Avatar Toe
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01-25-2011 | Posts: 13,320
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Probably hard to say since there is variation from unit to unit, BUT what preset gamma is considered the most accurate on the 40? I have cycled through the options and keep coming back to "A".
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering
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Accurate in terms of what? Some people prefer a 2.2 gamma, others a 2.4. The 2.3 preset tracks at 2.2 pretty well if that is what you're after. I've found that 2.3 is a very nice setting for this PJ, 2.4 is a bit overkill given the contrast performance and ends up being just a bit too dark, even in my batcave.
Toe's Avatar Toe
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post #97 of 431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Accurate in terms of what? Some people prefer a 2.2 gamma, others a 2.4. The 2.3 preset tracks at 2.2 pretty well if that is what you're after. I've found that 2.3 is a very nice setting for this PJ, 2.4 is a bit overkill given the contrast performance and ends up being just a bit too dark, even in my batcave.


Sorry, I meant the most accurate as far as 2.2 goes. Sounds like 2.3 is the way to go if 2.2 is what you are after from what you are saying........thanks
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering
08:32 PM Liked: 397
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01-25-2011 | Posts: 7,237
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Just checked the PJ and I used User 1 with Wide 1 for the calibration. From there I just followed the tips laid out by Lumagen on their website. Used the Custom gamma 2.3 preset for a baseline.
lovingdvd's Avatar lovingdvd
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01-25-2011 | Posts: 9,083
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Tom - thanks for the very detailed report! Looking at the CIE chart, it seems the position of the red would suggest a dE considerably greater than 2-ish. From your report it doesn't seem like it though so that is good.

You mentioned 650 lumens in high lamp mode. Was this from long throw? I would have expected this in normal mode... ?
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman
01:05 PM Liked: 249
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01-26-2011 | Posts: 6,478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Looking at the CIE chart, it seems the position of the red would suggest a dE considerably greater than 2-ish. From your report it doesn't seem like it though so that is good.

You mentioned 650 lumens in high lamp mode. Was this from long throw? I would have expected this in normal mode... ?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...2&postcount=44

It was about mid throw, so more light is possible at shortest throw installation.
Kelvin1965S's Avatar Kelvin1965S
01:12 PM Liked: 48
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01-26-2011 | Posts: 3,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Just checked the PJ and I used User 1 with Wide 1 for the calibration. From there I just followed the tips laid out by Lumagen on their website. Used the Custom gamma 2.3 preset for a baseline.

I'm hoping to get the Mini3D soon, but initially to use with my existing HD350. Pleased to see that you got such good results with it following the Lumagen tips which I've been reading up on in readyness.
lovingdvd's Avatar lovingdvd
09:39 PM Liked: 73
post #102 of 431
01-26-2011 | Posts: 9,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...2&postcount=44

It was about mid throw, so more light is possible at shortest throw installation.
Thanks - that makes sense. The Sharp 10K and RS1 had red in a similar position on the CIE chart. At this position it has a tendency to make oranges look more like red.

Kris - from you experiments with the RS40 service menu CMS-ish adjustments, is there anything in there that can improve the red?
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering
08:29 AM Liked: 397
post #103 of 431
01-27-2011 | Posts: 7,237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks - that makes sense. The Sharp 10K and RS1 had red in a similar position on the CIE chart. At this position it has a tendency to make oranges look more like red.

Kris - from you experiments with the RS40 service menu CMS-ish adjustments, is there anything in there that can improve the red?

Not that I could tell. You can definitely move the color points, but at the expense of image quality. They aren't cut and dry CMS adjustments, they affect too many other things with each adjustment, so while you think you're getting red good, your probably screwing up yellow and orange and vice versa. I wouldn't recommend messing with it.
stevenjw's Avatar stevenjw
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02-04-2011 | Posts: 2,184
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Finally got around to calibrating my RS40 using Calman 4.1 and Chroma 5 in 2D through my A-lens. I'm at work now, so I'll add the charts later (once I figure out easy way to do that. I'm new to Calman). My lamp indicates 70 hours of use.

Screen: Carada BW 1.4 gain 136" 2.35:1
Ambient light: none (complete bat-cave with flat black ceiling and flat burgendy walls and carpet)
Measured ft-L: 7.4
Lamp: normal
Lens App: -10
Color Space: Standard
Gamma: Custom 2 (2.3)
HDMI: enhanced
Contrast: 15
Brightness: -6
Color: 10
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

Color Mode: User1
Gain Red: -5
Gain Green: -4
Gain Blue: 0
Offset Red: -3
Offset Green: -5
Offset Blue: 0

I'll be tackling very minor CMS adjustments to D65 perfection via Lumagen XS next, but have to say that the RS40 has very acceptable Grayscale, Gamma, and D65 gamut using above settings and no CMS. Very impressive machine.
Dave Vaughn's Avatar Dave Vaughn
05:46 PM Liked: 108
post #105 of 431
02-04-2011 | Posts: 4,358
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I have a Lumagen Radiance XE-3D that will be here next week and will be doing a full calibration once it arrives.
desray2k's Avatar desray2k
09:00 PM Liked: 11
post #106 of 431
02-05-2011 | Posts: 216
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For those interested to know how well the RS40 perform before and after calibration using the DVDO iScan Duo (with 3D CMS)...can take a look at my review in this forum: http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/in...?topic=90193.0







For those interested with the settings on my Projector (After calibration)

Settings on the Projector
Contrast: 1
Brightness: 0
Color: 8
Tint: 1

Gamma: 2.32
Sharpness: 7
Detail Enhancement: 4
RNR: 8

Color Temp: 6500K

Custom Preset:
Gain Rd: 0
Gain Green: -40
Gain Blue: -18
Offset Red: -10
Offset Green: 3
Offset Blue: 5


Thebes's Avatar Thebes
02:06 AM Liked: 22
post #107 of 431
02-06-2011 | Posts: 447
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Hi,

the result of a calibration with the software HCFR and a ColorMunki.

The thread where is the file is here :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...087#p174477087

that is not my "calibration" or my projector, but except problems on saturation and luminance, the other issue is brightness.

After 200 hours of use, only 10 Fl in eco mode (around 105-110 lux or 440-450 lumens) (12 fL out of the box) with the shortest throw (closest to the screen) on a 275 cm wide screen. It seems he is not so bright in eco mode.

The other files follow.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
Thebes's Avatar Thebes
02:09 AM Liked: 22
post #108 of 431
02-06-2011 | Posts: 447
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Hi,

the other "files"
LL
LL
stereomandan's Avatar stereomandan
02:19 PM Liked: 21
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02-08-2011 | Posts: 1,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebes View Post

Hi,

the result of a calibration with the software HCFR and a ColorMunki.

The thread where is the file is here :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...087#p174477087

that is not my "calibration" or my projector, but except problems on saturation and luminance, the other issue is brightness.

After 200 hours of use, only 10 Fl in eco mode (around 105-110 lux or 440-450 lumens) (12 fL out of the box) with the shortest throw (closest to the screen) on a 275 cm wide screen. It seems he is not so bright in eco mode.

The other files follow.

Interesting files. Thanks for sharing.

HCFR now works with the colorMunki? I was not aware of this. Do you have confirmation of this? Thanks.

Dan
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k
07:34 PM Liked: 401
post #110 of 431
02-08-2011 | Posts: 7,742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desray2k View Post

For those interested to know how well the RS40 perform before and after calibration using the DVDO iScan Duo (with 3D CMS)...can take a look at my review in this forum:
For those interested with the settings on my Projector (After calibration)


Custom Preset:
Gain Rd: 0
Gain Green: -40
Gain Blue: -18
Offset Red: -10
Offset Green: 3
Offset Blue: 5


I'm glad I'm not the only one having to pull so much green out of the gain. My RS50 which replaced my RS40 (poor convergence, uneven focus) seems to have a noticeable green push out of the box. I've had to pull back the green (although not quite as much as you did).

I'll know better when my Chroma 5 Pro arrives later this week from Tom, I don't trust the Display LT meter I have here.

I've had a number of members email their calibrations (some from AVS) and it appears these projectors (RS40 & RS50) have a wide variance from copy to copy in regard to color performance out of the box. Some are lucky and only had to make minor adjustments, others are off quite a bit. My guess would be variances in the bulb affecting the color. If it's not the bulb, then it's a little more alarming as to why there would be such a difference.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio
02:59 PM Liked: 992
post #111 of 431
02-09-2011 | Posts: 8,113
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SOrry, im a calibration super newbie and was just curious what all I can calibrated without a meter, but just with the AVS calibration disk? I can tell that the green/blue levels are elevated in several scenes of movies and would love to, just for the time being, get those levels back to respectable. I havent even broken ground on calibration yet so there is much to learn but any advice to the above question would be great thanks
desray2k's Avatar desray2k
03:39 AM Liked: 11
post #112 of 431
02-10-2011 | Posts: 216
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Hi zombie, I'm contemplating of getting a chroma 5 colorimeter as well. Do post your feedback after use with your new colorimeter. If it's really good and show a vast difference in terms of the calibrated values. I'll probably get one for myself as well.
tjgar's Avatar tjgar
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02-10-2011 | Posts: 388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Finally got around to calibrating my RS40 using Calman 4.1 and Chroma 5 in 2D through my A-lens. I'm at work now, so I'll add the charts later (once I figure out easy way to do that. I'm new to Calman). My lamp indicates 70 hours of use.

Screen: Carada BW 1.4 gain 136" 2.35:1
Ambient light: none (complete bat-cave with flat black ceiling and flat burgendy walls and carpet)
Measured ft-L: 7.4
Lamp: normal
Lens App: -10
Color Space: Standard
Gamma: Custom 2 (2.3)
HDMI: enhanced
Contrast: 15
Brightness: -6
Color: 10
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

Color Mode: User1
Gain Red: -5
Gain Green: -4
Gain Blue: 0
Offset Red: -3
Offset Green: -5
Offset Blue: 0

I'll be tackling very minor CMS adjustments to D65 perfection via Lumagen XS next, but have to say that the RS40 has very acceptable Grayscale, Gamma, and D65 gamut using above settings and no CMS. Very impressive machine.

Thanks Steve,
considering I have a very similar set-up as you. (same pj, screen,semi bat cave, even our amplification) I will give your settings a try. I know every pj and lamp are different, but its a good starting point.
Thanks again
Tony
stevenjw's Avatar stevenjw
05:10 AM Liked: 27
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02-10-2011 | Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjgar View Post

Thanks Steve,
considering I have a very similar set-up as you. (same pj, screen,semi bat cave, even our amplification) I will give your settings a try. I know every pj and lamp are different, but its a good starting point.
Thanks again
Tony

Feel free to try, but just remember that each PJ is different. Mostly due to different lamps and number of hours on them. Mine had 70 hours when I performed this calibration.

Also keep in mind that there's really no "correct" gamma setting. Depending on your environment, it's probably best to use something between 2.2 and 2.4. Those are really preset as Custom 1 through 3. They're close enough. I found that setting gamma varies with source material too. In other words, don't be afraid to use a different gamma setting based on your tastes in dark scenes, etc. during any given movie. It's not written in stone. Your eyes are the only ones that count for gamma. Color is different and really requires a meter if accuracy is what you're after.

Good luck and hope they work for you.
Kelvin1965S's Avatar Kelvin1965S
09:40 AM Liked: 48
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02-10-2011 | Posts: 3,255
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Another point re gamma is that you can lower the gamma near black to increase shadow detail and help avoid black crush. I run my HD350 at 2.3 which looks good on brighter scenes, but the 5 and 10% gamma points are raised in brightness to be at the same settings as the custom 2.2 gamma for these points, which stops the dark areas looking too featureless on a lower contrast projector like mine. I know the X3/RS40 doesn't have the black adjust of the X7, but I guess you can still do this in the custom gamma area?

Having seen JonStatt's comments regarding the X7 contrast, then I may as well look to an X3 myself as I've got the Lumagen Mini3D coming...unless a used X9 turns up for a song once the next range is annouced.
lovingdvd's Avatar lovingdvd
10:49 AM Liked: 73
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02-10-2011 | Posts: 9,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
Another point re gamma is that you can lower the gamma near black to increase shadow detail and help avoid black crush. I run my HD350 at 2.3 which looks good on brighter scenes, but the 5 and 10% gamma points are raised in brightness to be at the same settings as the custom 2.2 gamma for these points, which stops the dark areas looking too featureless on a lower contrast projector like mine. I know the X3/RS40 doesn't have the black adjust of the X7, but I guess you can still do this in the custom gamma area?

Having seen JonStatt's comments regarding the X7 contrast, then I may as well look to an X3 myself as I've got the Lumagen Mini3D coming...unless a used X9 turns up for a song once the next range is annouced.
Have you tried doing the same thing, except with a target of 2.4 instead of 2.3? I go up from 2.2 to 2.4 from 5% to 30% and then 2.4 from 35-95% and it looks fantastic. This is with my RS20 but same would apply with your pj.
Thebes's Avatar Thebes
01:15 AM Liked: 22
post #117 of 431
02-11-2011 | Posts: 447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Interesting files. Thanks for sharing.

HCFR now works with the colorMunki? I was not aware of this. Do you have confirmation of this? Thanks.

Dan

Hi,

[HS on]

as you can see, "we" are working on a HCFR version with a colormunki pilot, but at this time it's only a "beta".

Some HCFR, AVS or AV Forum members (as Pando2 or me (I use a colormunki with HCFR software for my HD1 and an Iscan Duo)) use this beta version, but it is not available for "public" currently (and I don't know when it will be available for end-user, sorry).

[HS off]
Kelvin1965S's Avatar Kelvin1965S
01:22 AM Liked: 48
post #118 of 431
02-11-2011 | Posts: 3,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Have you tried doing the same thing, except with a target of 2.4 instead of 2.3? I go up from 2.2 to 2.4 from 5% to 30% and then 2.4 from 35-95% and it looks fantastic. This is with my RS20 but same would apply with your pj.

This may work well with the RS20 and the RS40 due to the higher on/off, but the HD350 just lacks enough to run at 2.4 even in my batcave IMHO. I'm getting my Lumagen today (hopefully) so I may try it again, but I think I'll have to wait until I get an X3/X9 to run that gamma permanently.
LarryChanin's Avatar LarryChanin
10:32 AM Liked: 10
post #119 of 431
02-12-2011 | Posts: 6,810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Finally got around to calibrating my RS40 using Calman 4.1 and Chroma 5 in 2D through my A-lens. I'm at work now, so I'll add the charts later (once I figure out easy way to do that. I'm new to Calman). My lamp indicates 70 hours of use.

Screen: Carada BW 1.4 gain 136" 2.35:1
Ambient light: none (complete bat-cave with flat black ceiling and flat burgendy walls and carpet)
Measured ft-L: 7.4
Lamp: normal
Lens App: -10
Color Space: Standard
Gamma: Custom 2 (2.3)
HDMI: enhanced
Contrast: 15
Brightness: -6
Color: 10
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

Color Mode: User1
Gain Red: -5
Gain Green: -4
Gain Blue: 0
Offset Red: -3
Offset Green: -5
Offset Blue: 0

I'll be tackling very minor CMS adjustments to D65 perfection via Lumagen XS next, but have to say that the RS40 has very acceptable Grayscale, Gamma, and D65 gamut using above settings and no CMS. Very impressive machine.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the information.

Have you done any viewing in 3D on such a large screen?

If so, I assume that the lamp power is on high and the iris setting is open?

What color temperature do you use when viewing 3D?

Do you use the 3D Picture mode when viewing 3D?

If so, do you use the 3D gamma settings? A or B?

Thanks again.

Larry
nightfly85's Avatar nightfly85
11:14 AM Liked: 18
post #120 of 431
02-12-2011 | Posts: 962
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Update: These reading were taken with a "bad" i1 LT. Got a new one and it produces entirely different results.

Is it just me? My RGB Gain controls can only be adjusted to the negative, i.e., they are not on 0 like the Offset controls.

User 1 - Wide1, 65000K temp, with everything else @ defaults.
Using Eye One LT/HCFR

The problem for me is that I apparently need to increase Green Gain & Offset but am unable to increase Gain! How can I pull that Green line up?



Oddly nice and linear but still way off. My Delta-E sucks.

Ok, I re-read this thread.

- Looks like I need to drop the + adjustment to my Green Offset and use 0.
- I need to get the RGB to line up using two of the gains with neg offsets only.
- Use gamma RGB controls to tweak final settings @ various IREs.
- Start in Film Mode, Standard Color Space, 65K Temp
- Use 80%, 30% IRE fields to dial in the greys.
Tags: Jvc Dla Rs40u

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