JVC RS40/X3 Calibration Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 431 Old 02-22-2011, 02:57 AM
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Sorry for this probably dumb newbie question. Is it possible to do the calibration with the color meter about 6 feet away from the screen?
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post #182 of 431 Old 02-22-2011, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanaloa6 View Post

Sorry for this probably dumb newbie question. Is it possible to do the calibration with the color meter about 6 feet away from the screen?

That is too far for most meters, ultimately it depends on field of view of the meter.
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post #183 of 431 Old 02-22-2011, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

Has anyone used the Screen Adjust setting?

According to the manual the Screen Adjust setting "It corrects the white balance fault according to the reflective properties of the projection screen. Please adjust to your preference."

Can someone please describe this a bit more to a rookie? What is white balance fault?

Will this Screen Adjust setting help or hurt a calibration?

Could this come in handy when using a grey screen?

Thanks.

Larry

Hi,

I received more information from Steve Withers over at AVForums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Chanin View Post

Hi Steve,


Nice review.


What size screen did you use?


Did you measure the lumens after calibration?


Did you leave the Screen Adjust setting at zero in 2D because you were using a white screen?



After reading your review mentioning the Screen Adjust setting I was curious and I found the following in the JVC FAQ.

Quote:


What is the Screen Adjust setting in the Adjustment Menu used for?The DLA-RS50 and DLA-RS60 have 99 screen mode settings and the DLA-RS40 has 3 modes. This feature provides an automatic preset color correction to compensate for the coloration effects of various screen fabrics. Some screen fabrics reflect all colors in the spectrum nearly equally, resulting in a reference white surface. However, some screen fabrics slightly alter the projected light from the projector, and the Screen Adjust feature is a way to compensate for any natural alteration from a screen surface. In addition, Screen Adjust setting “99” is used to automatically color correct for the tint effect of the 3D glasses (Screen Adjust setting “99” is used only if not using THX for 3D, as this color correction feature for 3D glasses is automatic with THX). JVC will publish a list of screens modes and the matching screen fabrics soon.

Interestingly I didn't see this "99" 3D setting mentioned in the owner's manual. Were you aware of it for correcting the 3D glasses tint when you did your 3D viewing?

Thanks.

Larry

Posting #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Withers View Post

Thanks Larry. My screen is quite big at 10 feet wide and the gain is 1.4 (not 2.0 that was a typo) but I have a very black, light controlled home cinema. We aim for 14-16ftl on screen for viewing and final calibration, but all the measurements within the reviews are taken from the projector to take out any issues like room effects and screen material. It means you are assessing the projector in the most sterile conditions possible, but we always recalibrate to the screen for real time viewing tests and comments.

The screen adjustment control is a very interesting feature and with the X7 and X9 you use a two digit code to set the screen adjustment for your exact make and model of screen. I didn't know about the 99 setting for 3D, as you say it isn't mentioned in the manual but that is interesting, although it would only apply to the X7 and X9. With the X3 things are a little different and there are just four choices - Off/A/B/C. The manual isn't very informative as it just says "Please adjust to your preference" so given that I have a matt white screen I chose Off. However this link http://www.jvc.eu/dla-x/screen_ajustment.html#x3 provides the correct screen settings for all the projectors with this feature, my choice of Off turned out to be correct in my case. Interestingly it still doesn't mention the choice of 99 for 3D viewing with the X7 and X9.

So as Steve points out the "99" Screen Adjust setting only works on the X7 and X9 projectors. He also pointed us to the Screen Adjustment Mode Table for the JVC projectors. (The link above takes us to the table for the X7 & X9 projectors, so you will have to select the tab at the top to get the X3 table.)

Larry
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post #184 of 431 Old 02-22-2011, 12:17 PM
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Hi, what would be the recommended screen adjust setting and color temperature for 3D viewing on the RS40? thanks in advance
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post #185 of 431 Old 02-22-2011, 12:27 PM
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The screen adjust should stay the same regardless of what format your viewing. For color temperature, 8500. When I looked at the 8500 preset with a PR650 shooting through the glasses it was pretty close to 6500. RGB balance definitely needed some correction though.

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post #186 of 431 Old 02-22-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The screen adjust should stay the same regardless of what format your viewing.

Hi Kris,

Can you please elaborate?

Do you mean for the X3/RS40 projectors that the Screen Adjust setting depends on the particular screen regardless of whether viewing in 2D or 3D?

I gather this would be different for the X7/RS50 and X9/RS60 where the "99" setting is available specifically for 3D viewing?

Thanks.

Larry

P.S. I was wondering if you might respond to posting #169
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post #187 of 431 Old 02-25-2011, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uzun View Post

I replaced my RS15 with an RS40 a couple of weeks ago, overall the 2D picture on the RS40 is superior to that of the RS15. It has much more natural colors, and the picture seems sharper as well with less artifacting in panning scenes etc.

But the loss of lumens is very noticeable. In normal lamp mode, on a 110" stewart Studiotek screen, it has way less lumens vs the old RS15, and the RS15 had 800 hours on its lamp!

In High mode it also has less lumens, but the difference is not so great. with the RS15 in high lamp mode, and the RS40 in high lamp mode, they seem closer in lumen output than when both are set to Normal.

Has anyone else noticed a loss in lumens when going from last years to this years? It's so great I really want to stick with high lamp mode even with a new bulb, but the fan noise gets bad in high mode.

The room is completely light controlled, and I have the projector ceiling mounted about 12' from a 110" diagonal stewartfilm Studiotek 1.3 gain screen. It's the same exact position and placement as the RS15 was.

I also have moved from an RS15 to the RS40 and have noticed improved sharpness, better convergence, and probably better ansi CR (less "glowing" around bright objects against an all-black background). Black level seems about the same or maybe a tad worse with the iris fully closed, but the highlights are way brighter. I still have the RS15 so i might do a side by side to see which black can go blacker.

One improvement that I can easily spot without any measuring or simultaneous comparison is that that the RS40 has way less lens light spill outside of the 16:9 rectangle. Projecting black on a white wall, I pretty much see just the rectangle, whereas on the RS15 i see a big oval with no rectangle. I suspect this difference already existed between the RS25/20 and RS15/10 models, too.

I took my RS15 to my brother's house with a 14' 2.35:1 matte white screen a year ago and he and his roommates were amazed by the brightness. This time I did the same thing once i got the RS40 and nobody was really amazed, and people were straining to see the details. Gamma A seemed to help, but nobody was particularly thrilled and blown away like last year. Subjectively I think this is in line with everyone else's experiences regarding the brightness. To be fair though, I have not touched the "Wide1" or "Wide2" color modes. Maybe the RS15 gets much of its subjective brightness advantage from its oversaturated colors?
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post #188 of 431 Old 03-01-2011, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE: New firmware has been released for the DLA-X3 and RS40 projectors (same firmware file then select which model you have when you run the program on your PC). Both the JVC consumer web site (for the DLA-X3) and the Professional JVC web site (for the DLA-RS40) now have the new ver. 1.3 firmware available for download. Update requires you connect a Windows based PC (e.g., laptop) via a USB cable to the projector. The projector has a mini-USB connector hidden behind a cover plate on the rear of the projector, so you will need a full sized USB to mini-USB cable or adapter to make the PC to projector connection. Also the PC software for installing the new firmware in the projector is not compabilble with the 64-bit version of Windows. Specfically, the PC/laptop used for installing the firmware update needs to be using the 32-bit version of Windows XP or Windows Vista or Windows 7

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post #189 of 431 Old 03-09-2011, 12:10 PM
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Hi all.

Just curious to know if there are any former Benq W5000 / W6000, or Mitsubishi HC3800 / HC4000 owners here.

How do you find the X3 compares for brightness, contrast, black level and motion smear ?

Thanks in advance!
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post #190 of 431 Old 03-13-2011, 07:52 AM
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Hello,

I have read this topic (and many others) from front to back and read some nice tips. I just bought my X3 (came in last friday), read the calibration for dummies on saturday, ordered the Eye One and the DVE HD basics on saturday and gonna give calibration a try when all is delivered. Never done this before so hope I can count on you guys if I need some help.
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post #191 of 431 Old 03-13-2011, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stress!!!!! View Post

Hello,

I have read this topic (and many others) from front to back and read some nice tips. I just bought my X3 (came in last friday), read the calibration for dummies on saturday, ordered the Eye One and the DVE HD basics on saturday and gonna give calibration a try when all is delivered. Never done this before so hope I can count on you guys if I need some help.

I was in the same boat a few months ago and read the guides front to back. I had the Eye One LT1 and use Color HFCR for calibrating my RS50. The issue I ran into was meter was reading my red valus correctly so the resulting calibration was off enough that you could easily tell with the eye something wasn't right.

I borrowed an Eye One from a peer at work and had similar results measuring red. I decided to order the Chroma 5 Pro from Tom Huffman at Chromapure. He will calibrate a meter (Either an LT1 or Chroma 5) against a reference meter and creates an offsite file that you use with a license of Chromapure which is great calibration software.

once you get familar with the basic, perhaps consider sending Tom your LT1 for calibration and a license of Chromapure standard. imo the cost is worth it because you will get better results with a calibrated meter. Check the www.curtpalme.com site for prices or www.chromapure.com as well.
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post #192 of 431 Old 03-13-2011, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stress!!!!! View Post

Hello,

I have read this topic (and many others) from front to back and read some nice tips. I just bought my X3 (came in last friday), read the calibration for dummies on saturday, ordered the Eye One and the DVE HD basics on saturday and gonna give calibration a try when all is delivered. Never done this before so hope I can count on you guys if I need some help.

I suggest you download the ISO file and burn you own copy of the AVS HD Calibration Disc. The link is in Post #1 of this tread.

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post #193 of 431 Old 03-14-2011, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I was in the same boat a few months ago and read the guides front to back. I had the Eye One LT1 and use Color HFCR for calibrating my RS50. The issue I ran into was meter was reading my red valus correctly so the resulting calibration was off enough that you could easily tell with the eye something wasn't right.

I borrowed an Eye One from a peer at work and had similar results measuring red. I decided to order the Chroma 5 Pro from Tom Huffman at Chromapure. He will calibrate a meter (Either an LT1 or Chroma 5) against a reference meter and creates an offsite file that you use with a license of Chromapure which is great calibration software.

once you get familar with the basic, perhaps consider sending Tom your LT1 for calibration and a license of Chromapure standard. imo the cost is worth it because you will get better results with a calibrated meter. Check the site for prices.
Thanks for the advice. But I am not yet ready for the Chroma. I will play around with the LT1 first to see if I like calibrating. If I get the hang of it and I like calibrating I can always upgrade.
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post #194 of 431 Old 03-14-2011, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
I suggest you download the ISO file and burn you own copy of the AVS HD Calibration Disc. The link is in Post #1 of this tread.
Hello Ron,

Forgot to mention... I already did that too yesterday.
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post #195 of 431 Old 03-22-2011, 12:20 AM
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Forgive me for being a noob... Can someone post a pic of what their X3/RS40 'in-menu' (not 'calman') gamma curves look like after a 2.3 calibration? Just trying to wrap my head around how to adjust the gamma settings.
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post #196 of 431 Old 03-22-2011, 06:38 PM
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Answered my own question...

I found all the options for custom gamma adjustment. I ended up settling on the gamma preset 'D' as it was the same as as the preset '2.3' (which was posted earlier as tracking quite close to 'real' 2.2 gamma) but with a bit more punch to the brighter areas whilst maintaining deep blacks. I am no expert calibrator and have settled on this judging by eye using the AVS test disc and various favorite films with great dark and bright scenes, choosing what I believed looked most rich and vibrant with zero to minimal white or black crush.

For anyone interested, these are my settings for 2D Bluray, DTV and PS3 gaming:

(At 38 lamp hours)

HDMI: Enhanced
Colour Space: Wide 1
Contrast: 15
Brightness: -7
Colour: 7
Tint: 0
Temp: 6500K
Gamma: D
Sharpness: 10
Detail Enhance: 25
Lens Aperture: -12
Lamp: Normal
Screen: This... http://www.selbyacoustics.com.au/sto...55&i=249819140
Room: Walls/floors dark, matte materials/colours. Ceiling is white as my wife won't budge on this! :S :P
Seating Distance: Approx. 3.5m
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post #197 of 431 Old 03-26-2011, 09:19 PM
 
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I have a rather noobish question:

I am using a ColoMunki design with hcfr. I read the Calibration for Dummies thread here, and got a basic feel for how things should work. I checked everything with HCFR before doing any calibration. The gamma curve was nearly perfect and the CIE chart was perfect except for the position of green. The RGB gamma was noticeably off though.

So I started to do some calibration, but there is no high end or low end RGB adjustment, so I figured that must be adjusted with the RGB gamma curve controls under the custom Gamma menu.

Should I first set my brightness and contrast, then create a custom color temperature, then go through the gamma adjustments for red, green, and blue (every 5 or 10 IRE) so they are all ~100%, then adjust the white gamma curve so it is flat (or however I prefer the whole curve to look)? Perhaps this makes no sense, I'm just trying to figure out how one gets the RGB gamma curve to be nice and tight.

Also, what adjustment should be made to move my green point right on the CIE chart so I comply with REC. 709, and does anyone have some tips for getting my grayscale gamma curve just right? Thanks.
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post #198 of 431 Old 03-29-2011, 02:07 PM
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I have read all postings in the last 2 hours and I am a little bit astonished. There was only one person who posted measurements of 100% and 75% stimulus levels of the wide gamut.

In Chroma Pure you can also do this with the saturation points but nobody did so ???

The first thing a calibrator should do BEFORE he begins with calibration should be measuring the gamut in order to check the linearity. I know that the Cinema 1 mode of the HD750 was CATASTROPHIC regarding linearity !

I have read 7 pages here and only ONE person thoughts about that fact ? Why ? I hope everybody knows that a calibration is useless with a gamut that lacks of linearity.

The next thing: the "normal" gamut is very close to Rec.709, that's true. But it's too close to the color points, so it's impossible to saturate them. So I think "wide" is the better choice.

Sources: Panasonic BDT-110, Toshiba HD-XE-1, Vantage VT-1S
Video processing: Lumagen Radiance 2041
Calibration: Full LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5 Business Pro, Chroma Pure
Probes: X-Rite EODIS3 / C6 / Chroma 5 / i1 pro 2
Targets: JVC-X500, TX-P65VTW60
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post #199 of 431 Old 03-29-2011, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudgiator View Post

I have read all postings in the last 2 hours and I am a little bit astonished. There was only one person who posted measurements of 100% and 75% stimulus levels of the wide gamut.

In Chroma Pure you can also do this with the saturation points but nobody did so ???

The first thing a calibrator should do BEFORE he begins with calibration should be measuring the gamut in order to check the linearity. I know that the Cinema 1 mode of the HD750 was CATASTROPHIC regarding linearity !

I have read 7 pages here and only ONE person thoughts about that fact ? Why ? I hope everybody knows that a calibration is useless with a gamut that lacks of linearity.

The next thing: the "normal" gamut is very close to Rec.709, that's true. But it's too close to the color points, so it's impossible to saturate them. So I think "wide" is the better choice.

I'm a little confused, do you have an RS40 and measured issues with linearity @ 75% stimulus levels?

I can tell you this is quite broken with the CMS in the RS50. If you select a wider gamut and wrangle in the colors via the CMS, you will create large dE errors below 100%.

For the time being, we have to pick a close color profile and notch the color controls a bit to compensate. Nice for $2k street over an RS40. JVC is supposed to be aware of the issue, but no word of a fix for it just yet.

I haven't heard if this was issue with the RS40.
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post #200 of 431 Old 03-29-2011, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm a little confused, do you have an RS40 and measured issues with linearity @ 75% stimulus levels?

I own a X3 (=RS40) and have done some measurements of all modes, but only at 75% at the moment via CalMAN and my Radiance XE. I have to do some measurements with 100%, 75% and 50%.

Quote:


I can tell you this is quite broken with the CMS in the RS50. If you select a wider gamut and wrangle in the colors via the CMS, you will create large dE errors below 100%.

"Normal" is too close to Rec.709. I cannot desaturate it with the Radiance. So I want to know if "wide" is linear. Then I can use it for a perfect calibration via the Radiance.

Quote:


For the time being, we have to pick a close color profile and notch the color controls a bit to compensate. Nice for $2k street over an RS40. JVC is supposed to be aware of the issue, but no word of a fix for it just yet.

I haven't heard if this was issue with the RS40.

Yep, without an external VP there is no choice, but I own a Radiance

So I would prefer some statements about the linearity of the RS40.

Sources: Panasonic BDT-110, Toshiba HD-XE-1, Vantage VT-1S
Video processing: Lumagen Radiance 2041
Calibration: Full LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5 Business Pro, Chroma Pure
Probes: X-Rite EODIS3 / C6 / Chroma 5 / i1 pro 2
Targets: JVC-X500, TX-P65VTW60
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post #201 of 431 Old 04-01-2011, 08:37 PM
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Do folks have any recommendations on good settings for the RS40 in 3D mode? I did a basic calibration in 2D mode using the Disney WOW disk and am happy with the results. But I have no idea how to do a calibration for 3D content. To date all I've done is use the 3D preset and turn down the sharpness and detail enhancement.
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post #202 of 431 Old 04-02-2011, 09:48 PM
 
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I spent some time going over my setting today and these are the results. The below 15IRE stuff had to be done mostly by eye since the colormunki didn't seem to know what it was doing. I tried using the service menu CMS to bring my green in a bit, but none of the controls appear to do anything at all (I'd love suggestions). Things look really good, but I can tell there is room for improvement, I would certainly appreciate suggestions.

Attachment 207682

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post #203 of 431 Old 04-02-2011, 09:49 PM
 
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I think I got the 90IRE gamma fixed, but didn't have time to run the measurements again and update the chart.
Attachment 207684

Attachment 207683

Attachment 207686
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post #204 of 431 Old 04-04-2011, 09:01 PM
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What is the procedure to calibrate the X3 with chromapure?

I know that brightness/contrast are the 1st things.

Just curious if then gamma would be best the be next then do greyscale? Then CMS?

If doing gamma, do I only do 10-90 range?
Do I set the levels to reach the 100%?

Then adjust the RGB in gamma to have them reach 100% in chromapure?

Thanks
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post #205 of 431 Old 04-05-2011, 03:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

What is the procedure to calibrate the X3 with chromapure?

I know that brightness/contrast are the 1st things.

Just curious if then gamma would be best the be next then do greyscale? Then CMS?

If doing gamma, do I only do 10-90 range?
Do I set the levels to reach the 100%?

Then adjust the RGB in gamma to have them reach 100% in chromapure?

Thanks

I think this thread may be geared more toward pros working with the RS40/X3. Having said that, I'm a newbie so take my advice with a grain of salt. It seems that after I did the color gamma it really did change the grayscale gamma, so it seems to me that you should do the color gamma first, then the overall white gamma. I would imagine that you should also do the whole 5-95% gamma range not just 10-90. Also, you are certainly right to do the brightness and contrast first. Perhaps you should also adjust your color temp first as well (but I'm not sure about that). Any help from the "pros" would be much appreciated. I hope this does help you, my picture is looking quite nice to my untrained eyes...
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post #206 of 431 Old 04-05-2011, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

What is the procedure to calibrate the X3 with chromapure?

I know that brightness/contrast are the 1st things.

Just curious if then gamma would be best the be next then do greyscale? Then CMS?

It is critical to get the white point correct before doing the CMS.

Edit: As Mark just reminded me, the RS40 has no CMS to calibrate.

However, whether you do gamma or grayscale first is your choice. Whichever you do, it will require going back to the other and making some changes because the two will likely interact.

BTW, the RGB gamma controls allow you to calibrate the white point at each level of adjustment. However, you'll probably find that the standard RGB gains and offsets will get the grayscale quite accurate, and you can use the RGB gamma controls (especially at 10%) to make fine adjustments.

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Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

If doing gamma, do I only do 10-90 range?
Do I set the levels to reach the 100%?

You can do gamma adjustments in 5% increments from 5%-95% or 10% increments 10%-90%. That's your choice. 100% and 0% have no gamma

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #207 of 431 Old 04-09-2011, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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For anyone looking for a really low cost digital lux meter (under $40 with shipping), I have tested the one in the link below and it appears to give results very similar to the widely used AEMC CA813 for measurement of a projector's lumens output for reference white level. More expensive meters will surely be able to more accurately measure black level lumens (for contrast measurements), but for measuring the projector's overall light output the one I checked is accurate (within a few %). It's available from many sources, including on eBay, and I've posted the Amazon link below:

Link: http://www.amazon.com/Mastech-Digita...2378999&sr=8-1

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post #208 of 431 Old 04-10-2011, 07:30 AM
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This week I'm getting my new radiance mini3d to go into my X3.

What is the best settings to put JVC to as a good starting base line, so all adjustments can be made with the mini?

Also, people with radiance scalers, do you do all adjustments with radiance or do some with JVC and some with radiance.

Thanks
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post #209 of 431 Old 04-10-2011, 10:37 AM
 
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I found that Film mode, 6500K, standard color was very close on my unit, so that might be a good starting point.
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post #210 of 431 Old 04-10-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

For anyone looking for a really low cost digital lux meter (under $40 with shipping), I have tested the one in the link below and it appears to give results very similar to the widely used AEMC CA813 for measurement of a projector's lumens output for reference white level. More expensive meters will surely be able to more accurately measure black level lumens (for contrast measurements), but for measuring the projector's overall light output the one I checked is accurate (within a few %). It's available from many sources, including on eBay, and I've posted the Amazon link below:

Link: http://www.amazon.com/Mastech-Digita...2378999&sr=8-1


Thanks Ron. Can you recommend a accurate low cost colormeter? (low cost and accurate seem to be an oxymoron, but one can try).
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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