Is DarkChip5 coming out? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andymnfun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Does anyone have any information?
andymnfun is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 01:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 247
From everything I've heard TI is not that interested in home entertainment much anymore. Commercial is key to them. So
New tech will probably be really slow to market for awhile.

Contributing Editor/Writer
Sound And Vision Magazine

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is online now  
post #3 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 01:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

From everything I've heard TI is not that interested in home entertainment much anymore. Commercial is key to them. So
New tech will probably be really slow to market for awhile.

Can we understand that to mean that DLP black levels have 'leveled' off, and will not be competitive with DILA for low APL scenes?
jlanzy is offline  
post #4 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 02:34 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 295
They are not competitive re that aspect now and unlikely will be in the future. They will need to use DI and dynamic black etc. Bulb dimning etc. They do have other advantages and if superiority in these aspects is important to you, then these may dictate the choice of this technology. I prefer DLP to SXRD etc myself. Single chip and three chip. Unfortunately 3 chip DLP is held artificially expensive by DI, I suspect.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #5 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 03:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
johnsmith808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

From everything I've heard TI is not that interested in home entertainment much anymore. Commercial is key to them. So
New tech will probably be really slow to market for awhile.

I would think that most of the money from consumers comes from tv's. Not too many people want a relatively big dlp tv anymore. The projector market is small.

So for dlp, it's either low end stuff, or ultra-high end commercial level.
johnsmith808 is offline  
post #6 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 03:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 295
That is not really true. Some of the best HT projectors are one and three chip DLPs. All the LED machines are DLP and projectors like the Lumis and all the DPs like the Titan and the Runcos.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #7 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 04:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
johnsmith808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Sorry, I guess the ones you mentioned are considered high end to me. Nothing in the RS40 level for example (I don't count the Sharp 17k because I consider it low-end tech other than 3d).

Nonetheless, the argument is in regards to the shrinking home market for DLP.
johnsmith808 is offline  
post #8 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 04:34 PM
J.P
Member
 
J.P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So, if TI is out of business for domestic use,what will happen to all the DLP-manufactures in a couple of years....
J.P is offline  
post #9 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 04:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Joesyah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GA
Posts: 2,174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post

Sorry, I guess the ones you mentioned are considered high end to me. Nothing in the RS40 level for example.

You have Samsung, Planar/Runco , Optoma and a few others all in the price range of the RS40.
Joesyah is offline  
post #10 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 05:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
johnsmith808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Okay, I stand corrected on the price range. However, the dlp chip tech is so stagnant because of what was mentioned earlier. No motivation to make a better chip due to the shrinking home market. DI has nothing to do with what TI has done and that really is the only increase in contrast in the last how many years. These manufacturers are hamstrung by the limits of what the dlp chips can do.

It would be nice if the dlp tech could be bought out by projector manufacturers since that seems to be the only area of application left.

Is it possible that we have reached the limits of native contrast of dlp tech?
johnsmith808 is offline  
post #11 of 78 Old 05-07-2011, 05:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post

Okay, I stand corrected on the price range. However, the dlp chip tech is so stagnant because of what was mentioned earlier. No motivation to make a better chip due to the shrinking home market. DI has nothing to do with what TI has done and that really is the only increase in contrast in the last how many years. These manufacturers are hamstrung by the limits of what the dlp chips can do.

It would be nice if the dlp tech could be bought out by projector manufacturers since that seems to be the only area of application left.

Is it possible that we have reached the limits of native contrast of dlp tech?

It appears that advances in the home pj tech will need to come from DILA, improving on areas that DLP has had the advantages, as noted eariler, sharpness and motion. It will be interesting to see if the future use of improved LEDs and laser with DILA will help close that gap or if they are simply inherent in the DILA architecture. Although there was some earlier talk/rumor that JVC wouldn't utilize LEDs, with an unspoken assumption that they would use laser next, whenever that may be, which doesn't sound as though it will be soon.
jlanzy is offline  
post #12 of 78 Old 05-08-2011, 11:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
adude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 717
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 15
That sucks.
At the moment, DLP is the only technology clear of cross-talk in 3D. I am waiting for a nice 1080p 3D DLP projector at 120 Hz. If TI is not willing to invest in further research in DLP chips for home market, then the wait could be forever.

Manoj
adude is offline  
post #13 of 78 Old 05-08-2011, 12:05 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Alan Gouger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,726
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Front projection is a very small niche. The demise of RP DLP was the end of the incentive
to deliver any new chip. This puts the ball in the manufactures hands but they are also under constraints via TIs contract. TIs resource are currently tied up ( thanks to Sony ) bringing to market 4k D-cinema projection which will eventually trickle down to the consumer. We are most likely to see 4k Lcos & or LCD hit first.
Alan Gouger is offline  
post #14 of 78 Old 05-09-2011, 09:08 AM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Everyone wanted flat and while DLP was flat compared to Direct Sets, it wasnt as flat as Plasma or LCD. The only thing that bothered me about DLP sets was that the bulbs didnt last very long
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #15 of 78 Old 05-09-2011, 09:43 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

Everyone wanted flat and while DLP was flat compared to Direct Sets, it wasnt as flat as Plasma or LCD. The only thing that bothered me about DLP sets was that the bulbs didnt last very long

RPTV (I had a Samsung HLP 61", and then a Mits 73" before going to a projector, RS1) also doesn't have the dynamic image of plasma or led, or a good front projector.
millerwill is online now  
post #16 of 78 Old 05-11-2011, 08:46 AM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I cant argue with that although I think that flatness of the TV was a bigger issue than the image at least with the general public
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #17 of 78 Old 05-11-2011, 10:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
f300v10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post

Everyone wanted flat and while DLP was flat compared to Direct Sets, it wasnt as flat as Plasma or LCD. The only thing that bothered me about DLP sets was that the bulbs didnt last very long

Agreed that the form factor of the set mattered more to the general buying public than image quality. As far as bulb life my first HDTV purchased spring 2004 was a Samsung DLP that now has 8000+ hours on the original bulb and still going, which has been a pleasant surprise to me. I have heard of some lasting over 12,000 hours.

I think TI had improved the native contrast of the DLP DMD about as far as the laws of physics would allow. Each successive iteration of DarkChip seemed to bring a smaller improvement than the one before it, to the point were the difference between DC4 and DC3 was hard to notice. LED and Dynamic Black were clearly more promising technologies in terms of improving perceived contrast for DLP TV/Projectors so that is where the development efforts have gone.
f300v10 is offline  
post #18 of 78 Old 05-11-2011, 12:04 PM
Member
 
Mr. Neverbicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by f300v10 View Post

...Each successive iteration of DarkChip seemed to bring a smaller improvement than the one before it, to the point were the difference between DC4 and DC3 was hard to notice. LED and Dynamic Black were clearly more promising technologies in terms of improving perceived contrast for DLP TV/Projectors so that is where the development efforts have gone.

Agreed. My SP8602 with DC3 is a noticeable improvement in many areas over my IN83 with the DC4.
Mr. Neverbicker is offline  
post #19 of 78 Old 05-11-2011, 02:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 6,966
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Hutnicki View Post
I cant argue with that although I think that flatness of the TV was a bigger issue than the image at least with the general public
I agree. Slim seems to be the big fad despite the rather obvious uniformity issues with edge lit TVs. But I guess their profile is sexy enough to dismiss the glaring issues (like so many other things in life huh!!).

Contributing Editor/Writer
Sound And Vision Magazine

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is online now  
post #20 of 78 Old 05-11-2011, 11:45 PM
Member
 
Mr. Neverbicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I agree. Slim seems to be the big fad despite the rather obvious uniformity issues with edge lit TVs. But I guess their profile is sexy enough to dismiss the glaring issues (like so many other things in life huh!!).

...well my uniformly lit 150" TV is only 3/4" thick
Mr. Neverbicker is offline  
post #21 of 78 Old 05-12-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Look at Samsung, they have those LCD\\LED that are paper thin thick. Most of the machinery is in the base. Cool idea. But lets be honest, except for the cool factor, does it really matter if the TV is 1 inch of the wall or 2. The public walked away from DLP because they were sold on the slim issue. I am the wrong person to complain as I only switched from a CRT to a LCD computer screen maybe 2 years ago
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #22 of 78 Old 05-12-2011, 11:22 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I certainly agree with he comments about the appeal of slimness, but also agree that once its down to ~2" or so, it hardly matters anymore (compared to 15" deep). The much higher brightness of LED also diminished the appeal of RPTV, and also plasma (even though they are also slim) for this reason.
millerwill is online now  
post #23 of 78 Old 05-12-2011, 01:35 PM
Senior Member
 
waterm3732's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sunny Space Coast of Florida!
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I always liked that the rear projection DLP set gives a large screen size bang for the buck, but it's that screen "sheen" and that beautiful invention called the "wobulated" chip that doesn't help with respect to PQ. That dang wobulated chip always irked me.
waterm3732 is online now  
post #24 of 78 Old 05-12-2011, 04:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
inky blacks's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,784
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Is the upcoming 92" Mitsubishi DLP RPTV going to have the wobulation chip or a real 1080 chip?
inky blacks is offline  
post #25 of 78 Old 05-12-2011, 09:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
erkq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by f300v10 View Post

Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Neverbicker View Post

Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I certainly agree

A most agreeable bunch in this thread.
erkq is offline  
post #26 of 78 Old 05-13-2011, 07:07 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 295
+1

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is online now  
post #27 of 78 Old 05-13-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Daniel Hutnicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: On the Internet
Posts: 6,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by f300v10 View Post
Agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Neverbicker View Post
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
I certainly agree
A most agreeable bunch in this thread.

Seriously?, i dont agree
Daniel Hutnicki is offline  
post #28 of 78 Old 05-13-2011, 09:44 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Splunge?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is online now  
post #29 of 78 Old 05-13-2011, 09:48 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Unfortunately I think we are all agreeing that we think few advances in dlp performance are forthcoming. Hope we are all wrong.
millerwill is online now  
post #30 of 78 Old 05-13-2011, 10:45 AM
Member
 
Mr. Neverbicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

A most agreeable bunch in this thread.

Was wondering at what point someone was going to point that out.

I'm thinking that with 3D finally becoming something, DLP might pick up again because from what I've read here, LCOS doesn't perform as well with with 3D.

Actually, I'd rather see 3-chip DLP become more common and affordable. That would be something.
Mr. Neverbicker is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off