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post #61 of 183 Old 07-10-2011, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

I do not mean to answer for EKKI, but my understanding having read his review suggests the hw20 has very slightly better 2D native ON/OFF contrast. The review only refers to the 70K versus 80K with both projectors in dynamic iris mode. However, I think we can infer with dynamic iris OFF, this would also translate into a slight proportional difference in NATIVE on/off contrast. BUT... is the difference enough to chose a hw20 over a hw30 at or near the same cost? IMHO, NO.



Yes, you are right.
We never made a complete Review of a HW20. However, I made some measurements with HW20 here and then and they usually end up in the same contrast region like the one we got from the HW30 now.

BTW: A contrast difference of 12% is BELOW normal tolerances / serial deviation for one and the same model.


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post #62 of 183 Old 07-10-2011, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post


There has been info about a vw95es, and I also was told to expect a new flag ship projector to be announced at Cedia. I wondered if that might have the 21:9 panels.

Yep I have already open a topic regarding the VPL-VW95ES here.
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post #63 of 183 Old 07-10-2011, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kraine View Post

think 4k for the flagship model Great review Ekkehart

Thanks Kraine

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post #64 of 183 Old 07-10-2011, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post


Yeah..without a doubt! lol
Not to down the Epson, but these units are in a different class all together.
What's wrong with your current screen?

It's a cheap pull down screen, so it it has shortened my throw distance and had to be mounted closer to my lighting.
Fixed screen will be able to be mounted deeper into the proscenium, so less direct light will hit the screen for sports.
Guessing the HCCV material will put my current screen material to shame either way.
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post #65 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Guess who is coming out for dinner ?











Review of this final model with follow in a few days Stay tuned
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post #66 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 05:03 AM
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Was the end result of the review the HW30 is a HW20 with 3D. If you just wanted 2D would it make better sense to get a HW20 instead?

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post #67 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rgathright View Post

Was the end result of the review the HW30 is a HW20 with 3D. If you just wanted 2D would it make better sense to get a HW20 instead?

I disagree, there is no motionflow on the HW20ES and it's make a huge difference in picture even in 2D.
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post #68 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 09:31 AM
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Exactly what does "motionflow" do?

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post #69 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rgathright View Post

Exactly what does "motionflow" do?

it's Sony's version of frame interpolation which was highly regarded in the VW90. It's great news to see it also works in 3D mode. I can't wait to check it out.
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post #70 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it's Sony's version of frame interpolation which was highly regarded in the VW90. It's great news to see it also works in 3D mode. I can't wait to check it out.

Motion Flow in the vw90 offered a low setting (no soap opera effect) and high (max smoothness for sports). I think Sony finally tweaked the low setting to be useable for much more content. If the hw30 carries over similar performance, it's worth the upgrade over the hw20.

Motion Flow only works with full frame 3D and it removes all flicker. But it does not work with other 3D formats like side-by-side, which does suffer from flicker anyway and is a sub standard 3D presentation.

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post #71 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 12:44 PM
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What type of 3D does Directv do? About the only reason I would use 3D would be using Directv.

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post #72 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Motion Flow in the vw90 offered a low setting (no soap opera effect) and high (max smoothness for sports). I think Sony finally tweaked the low setting to be useable for much more content. If the hw30 carries over similar performance, it's worth the upgrade over the hw20.

Motion Flow only works with full frame 3D and it removes all flicker. But it does not work with other 3D formats like side-by-side, which does suffer from flicker anyway and is a sub standard 3D presentation.

thanks for the info. I am looking forward to trying it out in 3D on the Sony. I am highly sensitive to flicker and can notice it on my JVC RS50 vs. the Acer at the higher refresh. it's not a deal breaker, but always conscious of the flicker on the JVC.
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post #73 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 02:29 PM
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For ESPN 3D, DTV does 720p side by side, a non standard format. The Sony will handle it but I don't believe with motion flow. It probably doesn't have the processing power to interpolated new images between each of the side by side frames. In essence it would have to do twice as much interpolation than for a non 3D image.

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post #74 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Before calibration, out of the box, cinema mode 1, color space normal, gamma off, iris off, color temp low 1 :




Gamma 2.29 :



Color temp 6250K, delta E : 2.9



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post #75 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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After calibration, the RCP is really efficient :






Color temp 6561K delta E 0.9



gamma off at 2.23

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post #76 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 02:41 PM
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Kraine- thanks for posting. It's not bad out of the box at all... my JVC RS50 greyscale with 2 different lamps was off by a mile in comparison.

hard to believe the machine that costs 1/2 the price of the RS50/X7 is going to be easier to calibrate with the built in controls. JVC should be taking lessons from Sony this year.
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post #77 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Kraine- thanks for posting. It's not bad out of the box at all... my JVC RS50 greyscale with 2 different lamps was off by a mile in comparison.

hard to believe the machine that costs 1/2 the price of the RS50/X7 is going to be easier to calibrate with the built in controls. JVC should be taking lessons from Sony this year.

Yes you(re right, Sony did a really good job with the HW30ES.
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post #78 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Kraine- thanks for posting. It's not bad out of the box at all... my JVC RS50 greyscale with 2 different lamps was off by a mile in comparison.

hard to believe the machine that costs 1/2 the price of the RS50/X7 is going to be easier to calibrate with the built in controls. JVC should be taking lessons from Sony this year.

I mentioned this in the other Sony thread as well, but I think Sony is remarkable in unit-to-unit consistancy. It must be their QC or just how matured their tech is. I have a 4 year old SXRD TV that still shows fantastic skintones and color, and only required a few tweaks.

And this is a lesson for those manufacturers (you know who they are) that intentionally mistweak or oversaturate the colors of the base model, and then leave out any ability to fix them, leaving you to watch sunburned faces.
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post #79 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

After calibration, the RCP is really efficient :






Color temp 6561K delta E 0.9



gamma off at 2.23


So, post calibration, how many lumens are we talking here (high/low lamp setting)?
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post #80 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that the calibration is made I will measure the lumens output but you will have to wait a little while. In the meantime you can watch the pannels alignments (wich are excellents on my sample).





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post #81 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 03:04 PM
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Very tight convergence. Nice!
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post #82 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 03:05 PM
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Calibrated lumens are around 900 in High mode. Eco mode 30% less.
And the RCP is a bit buggy and not perfectly working.


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post #83 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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RCP is working fine on my HW30ES, real time adjustments with chromapure and my eye one pro are effective for HSL.
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post #84 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 11:12 PM
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Here is my gamut measurement of the 'Standard' color space (Calman 4.3, I1Pro), the good thing: I did not even touch the RCP controls!
And I can confirm the aprox. 900 lumens after calibration to D65.
LL

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post #85 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 11:20 PM
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For grey scale I used custom3/'gamma off' or the like and had to correct it only a few dots (you could do even better than I did, as kraine pointed out):
LL

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post #86 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clehner View Post

For grey scale I used custom3/'gamma off' or the like and had to correct it only a few dots (you could do even better than I did, as kraine pointed out):

So do I, custom 3 + gamma off (custom 3 use the factory preset color temp low 1).

Hallo Christoph

HDTV Gamut is good out of the box, but not the Luminance, and you need to use the RCP to correct it.
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post #87 of 183 Old 08-05-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

HDTV Gamut is good out of the box, but not the Luminance, and you need to use the RCP to correct it.

As you can see, in my case only Blue is a bit high, with the rest of the colors even luminance is almost perfect. So, there may be some unit to unit variance here.

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post #88 of 183 Old 08-06-2011, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
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True, but with the RCP you can working on the Blue and reduce it.

That is the only difference that I saw between our two models
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post #89 of 183 Old 08-06-2011, 12:08 AM
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I'm considering getting a new screen. If i get the hw30es calibrated, i guess i should not have that done until after getting the screen, correct?

BTW, has anyone tested the polarization of the RGB as the mark mentioned earlier it's possible the 3 panels could be polarized on a different axis, which would affect my decision on getting a screen that retains the projector polarization. It should be easy to test that i guess. My projector is due tomorrow anyhow so if no-one answers i'll test it myself and post the results.
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post #90 of 183 Old 08-06-2011, 03:13 AM
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How are these straight out of the box with only user friendly adjustments being made?

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