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post #121 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 08:50 AM
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Guys. Understand me. I am not a moderator but I really do appreciate the respect I am given here. I, as a forum member, get tired of the bashing some here continually give JVC no matter what thread or what post. There are places for that. The JVC threads not threads devoted to a non JVC projector. That's all. The parties know exactly what I mean and thankfully respect it my wishes. And repeating the same thing, over and over and over, really does nothing than act as a vendetta and provide an emotional release. If you need that, call me, plenty do. The doctor is in.

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post #122 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 11:21 AM
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Mark. Your right. But, u still have to ask yourself why there is so much JVC bashing? Why us no one satisfied with buying an rs50 instead of rs40, etc, etc. Yes a few on here are more vocal then others but the fact is we got scammed straight up. There's NO arguing that. As a seller for JVC, I hope u let JVC know at CEDIA what we think.

I've been a member for many years and not once has there been this much negativity toward a JVC.
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post #123 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

This is our ghosting results with the value "0" on 3D Deep Mode :

Ghosting Test picture 1080p :



Left eye :



Right eye :



As you can see, the L and R are clean without ghost image, they are still a shadow on the upper corner but it's really discrete and nothing to worry about during a movie. It's not the same if you change the 3D deep value + or -, that operation increase the crosstalking.

Kraine - is there any changes you can make to further reduce the mild ghosting seen in the screen shots? Even if it was at the expense of light, I am curious if it can be furthered reduced.

thanks for posting the examples. Overall it looks good for LCOS 3D.
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post #124 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Ask and you will get

I reduce the glasses luminosity to average and..... still a little bit ghosting, but it's really not annoying on this level :



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post #125 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


Start another thread if you need to since there are some who are very curious how this Sony will compete with other units, especially as far as ghosting goes. I dont expect it to compete with the Acer of course, but I am very curious how it does vs your 50 as far as ghosting goes.

And 2D
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post #126 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 03:34 PM
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Interestingly, the ghosting became less visable but swithched from the top corners to the bottom corners.

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post #127 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Interestingly, the ghosting became less visable but swithched from the top corners to the bottom corners.

Mark,

Did you replace your "borrowd" projector yet or are you getting/got a HW30ES?
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post #128 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 04:56 PM
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Just my impressions so far...
For anyone else considering upgrading from an older projector, I received mine yesterday (shipping NY to SD in 22 hours - i need to learn patience ), i'm very happy with it so far. I had a VPL-VW50 before (with about 500 hours on it's 2nd lamp), and so far the HW30 seems a lot brighter (in low lamp mode it seems much brighter than the 50 was in high mode!), also the blacks look 3-4 time darker. I have no calibration equipment so that's totally subjective. My screen is fairly old 106" diagonal Draper - not sure what gain, and i had considered upgrading to one with higher gain to help 3d brightness, but from what i've seen so far the 3D is plenty bright on brightness settings 2,3,max. min and 1 are fine but maybe a little dim. This is with less than 2 hours on the bulb though.
Ghosting is very minimal and not bothersome. Strangely, what ghosting there is i have not found is affected totally by the brightness controls. Ghosting on Min setting is still visible, i'd have to guess this is now due to the LCD glasses not blocking out 100% of the light when they're opaque, rather than the timing being off. I haven't tried yet, but if so i guess i should lower the brightness of the projector and increase the glasses brightness to compensate. Has anyone else tried that yet?
Noise seems slightly lower than the VW50. the mounting holes are exactly the same as the VW50 (so it worked immediately with the home-made ceiling mount i made).
I had to do some panel alignment, but the alignment menu worked great, very accurate small steps and the end result is good.
I miss the motorized focus, but once this is set correctly it won't be moved so it doesn't really matter. It's really nice having the horizontal shift, which the VW50 did not have. My projector mount is less than 1" off center which always resulted in a very slightly bigger picture at one side than the other, but this issue is fixed now. My projector is mounted as close to the screen as possible, which i liked 'cos it helped boost the VW50 brightness, and the VW50 was always zoomed at maximum. It seems like the HW30es has maybe a slightly higher zoom, but it's withing a couple of percent.
So far i've only tried it with Rango (2D), Tron(3D), Piranha(3D).
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post #129 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 05:24 PM
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Thanks for the info! I'm debating on this projector, the upcoming panny, or the low end JVC model. My local Best Buy will have the projector on display on August 8th so I'm eager to see how this projector performs in person!
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post #130 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 05:55 PM
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The glasses don't cause the ghosting. Its more an issue of the wrong eye image not being completely gone when the correct eye shutter on the glasses is open. The longer the glasses are open the more ghosting will be apparent.

I will get my demo probably early the following week. Its going to Warren in Chicago for videoing of a first look. This will be the normal introduction description, physical, features, menu look, etc. Then it comes to me for subjective viewing impressions.

For political reasons we will no longer be doing measrements of before and after calibrations but I will fully calibrate it using a Display 3 Pro, Chromapure, and Auto Cal with my Radiance.

We will be providing a thread and link for the posting of measurements, before and after calibration, by qualified calibrators with high quality instrumentation. Such measurements will be independent from AV Science control and will represent their independent results. As a reseller and accordingly a sales organization representing our manufacturers, we must avoid posting by us of results showing in certain instances a machine not meeting published manufacturer specifications. Everything will be there but the measurements won't be by us, but by more qualified measurers, and will represent their independent results.

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post #131 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 06:05 PM
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How do the black levels on this compare to a projector like the JVC RS2?
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post #132 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The glasses don'y cause the ghosting. Its more an issue of the wrong eye image not being completely gone when the correct eye shutter on the classes is open. The longer the glasses are open the more ghosting will be apparent.

I edited this 'cos i meant to say crosstalk but said ghosting...sorry if that led to any confusion.

I agree about when the glasses are open, and that's why the reduction in glasses brightness (shortening the open duration) reduces crosstalk, but are you totally sure that 100% of the light is blocked when the glasses are not open? If it doesn't block 100% when closed then that would also cause crosstalk, as you'd be seeing a very slight amount of the light get through when they're closed.
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post #133 of 183 Old 08-07-2011, 08:31 PM
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From what I know, its not a failure to completely block the light that results in visable cross talk. Its the the open shutter eye seeing something other than the flashed image for that eye, part of thee image for the other eye.

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post #134 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 12:09 AM
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Does anyone know the maximum distance/range from the TMR-PJ1 transmitter to the actual glasses?
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post #135 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdogg View Post

Just my impressions so far...
For anyone else considering upgrading from an older projector, I received mine yesterday (shipping NY to SD in 22 hours - i need to learn patience ), i'm very happy with it so far. I had a VPL-VW50 before (with about 500 hours on it's 2nd lamp), and so far the HW30 seems a lot brighter (in low lamp mode it seems much brighter than the 50 was in high mode!), also the blacks look 3-4 time darker. I have no calibration equipment so that's totally subjective. My screen is fairly old 106" diagonal Draper - not sure what gain, and i had considered upgrading to one with higher gain to help 3d brightness, but from what i've seen so far the 3D is plenty bright on brightness settings 2,3,max. min and 1 are fine but maybe a little dim. This is with less than 2 hours on the bulb though.
Ghosting is very minimal and not bothersome. Strangely, what ghosting there is i have not found is affected totally by the brightness controls. Ghosting on Min setting is still visible, i'd have to guess this is now due to the LCD glasses not blocking out 100% of the light when they're opaque, rather than the timing being off. I haven't tried yet, but if so i guess i should lower the brightness of the projector and increase the glasses brightness to compensate. Has anyone else tried that yet?
Noise seems slightly lower than the VW50. the mounting holes are exactly the same as the VW50 (so it worked immediately with the home-made ceiling mount i made).
I had to do some panel alignment, but the alignment menu worked great, very accurate small steps and the end result is good.
I miss the motorized focus, but once this is set correctly it won't be moved so it doesn't really matter. It's really nice having the horizontal shift, which the VW50 did not have. My projector mount is less than 1" off center which always resulted in a very slightly bigger picture at one side than the other, but this issue is fixed now. My projector is mounted as close to the screen as possible, which i liked 'cos it helped boost the VW50 brightness, and the VW50 was always zoomed at maximum. It seems like the HW30es has maybe a slightly higher zoom, but it's withing a couple of percent.
So far i've only tried it with Rango (2D), Tron(3D), Piranha(3D).

Thanks for the review. I also have a VPL-VW50 I have been thinking about upgrading (I'm 400 hours into my 4th bulb.). I have a 119" Dalite HP screen, so brightness isn't my big issue. The thing I would most like to see improved is the black level. So it is good to hear this sounds significantly better on this new machine.

Thanks,
Duane
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post #136 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjrivera View Post

Does anyone know the maximum distance/range from the TMR-PJ1 transmitter to the actual glasses?

This is a lot like asking how far a wireless network works....well it depends on MANY, many factors. It's IR so the performance/limitations would be similar to many IR remotes. Here is what the manual says:

Quote:


Place the optional 3D Sync Transmitter directly facing the 3D glasses. Also, in order to stabilize operation of the 3D glasses, it is recommended that you place the 3D Sync Transmitter near your viewing position.

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post #137 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdogg View Post

Just my impressions so far...
For anyone else considering upgrading from an older projector, I received mine yesterday (shipping NY to SD in 22 hours - i need to learn patience ), i'm very happy with it so far....

You paid for overnight shipping? What irony that you paid that much to have your projector shipped what amounts to 5 miles "as the bird flies".

I think you should have the honors of starting the "Officials HW30ES Owners" thread.
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post #138 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post


You paid for overnight shipping? What irony that you paid that much to have your projector shipped what amounts to 5 miles "as the bird flies".

I think you should have the honors of starting the "Officials HW30ES Owners" thread.

The real irony is that AVS is less than 90 miles from me and UPS is taking 3 business days to deliver. It's sitting in a UPS depot 15 minutes from my office.

Whoever creates the owners thread should be willing to commit the time for an faq, and update the first page with important info, etc.
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post #139 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The real irony is that AVS is less than 90 miles from me and UPS is taking 3 business days to deliver. It's sitting in a UPS depot 15 minutes from my office.

Whoever creates the owners thread should be willing to commit the time for an faq, and update the first page with important info, etc.

Why not go and pick it up? Strange since UPS (and FedEx) love to move items to keep the "pipeline" as clear as possible.

That's why I'm pushing for someone else (with creativity and smarts).
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post #140 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 08:45 AM
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Why not go and pick it up? Strange since UPS (and FedEx) love to move items to keep the "pipeline" as clear as possible.

That's why I'm pushing for someone else (with creativity and smarts).

They won't let me. UPS Security requires that at least 1 attempt be made for delivery for pickup before depot pickup is allowed.

now I will actually have to do some work this afternoon vs. an unboxing in my office.
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post #141 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

You paid for overnight shipping? What irony that you paid that much to have your projector shipped what amounts to 5 miles "as the bird flies".

I think you should have the honors of starting the "Officials HW30ES Owners" thread.

I know, after all that i was just praying that it arrived in good condition! it did I'm surprised Kraine hasn't already started the owners thread, and i'm not sure what the etiquette is with me being quite new here.

Thanks to everyone that posts here, i've learned so much.

I was first tempted by the 90es at the end of last year, it was sooo tough resisting until now, and with avs's great price i decided i could splash out and get that shipping. It's been a fun weekend.

A couple more observations on the projector. (totally subjective again). It's going to take a little while for me to get used to, the brightness and contrast are quite a bit higher and it maybe makes the picture look a bit harsher. That'll probably stop when i get used to it, and the lamp burns in a bit. Also, i watched Legend of the Guardian 3D last night - that's by far the best looking 3D movie i've seen on it so far, the depth in the flying scenes seems ideal for 3D. It was just a touch dimmer than i expected - i guess with 'real life' movies you're used to lower lighting, but in these animated movies they're just so well lit that your expectation is for very high brightness. Trying the motion flow, i watched some of The Return of the King Extended Edition (in 2D), on High there were still some artifacts, but much less than on my 3-4 year old XBR4 120hz tv. Specifically on the scene where Arwen is going to the ships and has the vision of her son running into Aragorn's arms, above her son is very artifacty. With motion flow on low the artifacts are almost (but not quite) gone. I'll be leaving it on low i think - which is what other people have suggested i think. As i mentioned on a previous post, the manual focus is much harder to get right than the motorized, just 'cos i can't see the screen close up at the same time as changing the focus. I think another reason it's harder is that the gap between the pixels is so much smaller now! The VW50 was great for pixel gap compared to my previous LCD projector, but it's actually really hard to see the pixel gap now. Of course, i'm getting older now and just got my first glasses, so probably the gap doesn't matter anymore to me. Anyhow, that's just some more stuff i noticed.
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post #142 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdogg View Post

I know, after all that i was just praying that it arrived in good condition! it did I'm surprised Kraine hasn't already started the owners thread, and i'm not sure what the etiquette is with me being quite new here.

Thanks to everyone that posts here, i've learned so much.

I was first tempted by the 90es at the end of last year, it was sooo tough resisting until now, and with avs's great price i decided i could splash out and get that shipping. It's been a fun weekend.

A couple more observations on the projector. (totally subjective again). It's going to take a little while for me to get used to, the brightness and contrast are quite a bit higher and it maybe makes the picture look a bit harsher. That'll probably stop when i get used to it, and the lamp burns in a bit. Also, i watched Legend of the Guardian 3D last night - that's by far the best looking 3D movie i've seen on it so far, the depth in the flying scenes seems ideal for 3D. It was just a touch dimmer than i expected - i guess with 'real life' movies you're used to lower lighting, but in these animated movies they're just so well lit that your expectation is for very high brightness. Trying the motion flow, i watched some of The Return of the King Extended Edition (in 2D), on High there were still some artifacts, but much less than on my 3-4 year old XBR4 120hz tv. Specifically on the scene where Arwen is going to the ships and has the vision of her son running into Aragorn's arms, above her son is very artifacty. With motion flow on low the artifacts are almost (but not quite) gone. I'll be leaving it on low i think - which is what other people have suggested i think. As i mentioned on a previous post, the manual focus is much harder to get right than the motorized, just 'cos i can't see the screen close up at the same time as changing the focus. I think another reason it's harder is that the gap between the pixels is so much smaller now! The VW50 was great for pixel gap compared to my previous LCD projector, but it's actually really hard to see the pixel gap now. Of course, i'm getting older now and just got my first glasses, so probably the gap doesn't matter anymore to me. Anyhow, that's just some more stuff i noticed.

If you have a pair of binoculars, it can help in focusing. I'm not making a joke, either....it's actually a really good way to see the screen up close!
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post #143 of 183 Old 08-08-2011, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

If you have a pair of binoculars, it can help in focusing. I'm not making a joke, either....it's actually a really good way to see the screen up close!

Motorized focas is one thing I won't miss with the HW30. I always hated "touching" the button and passing the "best" point (especially when I was already or almost there). I will try the binoculars trick since the one advantage of motorized focus is being able to stand close to the screen while focusing.
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post #144 of 183 Old 08-09-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

RCP is working fine on my HW30ES, real time adjustments with chromapure and my eye one pro are effective for HSL.


It is not perfectly working.

You have to check more stimulus levels for color brightness in order to find out about the errors of RCP.



Regards,
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post #145 of 183 Old 08-09-2011, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clehner View Post

As you can see, in my case only Blue is a bit high, with the rest of the colors even luminance is almost perfect. So, there may be some unit to unit variance here.


Nope, ther is not much deviation between the HW30. And your obversations are right: We have checked 6 machines already and all showed comparable results ootb as yours. (being close to perfect without using RCP, which gives you additional problems).

Regards,
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post #146 of 183 Old 08-09-2011, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Nope, ther is not much deviation between the HW30. And your obversations are right: We have checked 6 machines already and all showed comparable results ootb as yours. (being close to perfect without using RCP, which gives you additional problems).

Regards,
Ekki

So this means the SXRD panels don't vary very much between units? This is good news because a review unit is a good indicator of what the final product will be like. Seems like Sony has really matured this tech and learned from the earlier hurdles.

Ekki, have to noticed the recent Sony models suffer any contrast degredation?
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post #147 of 183 Old 08-09-2011, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes Ekkehart you're right RCP isn't working so perfectly I'll explain why in my review.
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post #148 of 183 Old 08-09-2011, 09:08 AM
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Pin Function
1 + 5V DC (secured with 750 mA)
2 Ground
3 Stereo Sync

I'd like to make an RJ45 -> 3 Pin DIN connector so I can continue to use the Monster Vision glasses.


Kraine or Cine4home - any chance you guys can find out the pin-outs on the RJ45 connection on the Sony? thank you!!
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post #149 of 183 Old 08-09-2011, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier1 View Post

So this means the SXRD panels don't vary very much between units? This is good news because a review unit is a good indicator of what the final product will be like. Seems like Sony has really matured this tech and learned from the earlier hurdles.

Ekki, have to noticed the recent Sony models suffer any contrast degredation?


We did not check review units, but normal serial units. Deviation in color space was very little. In color temperature also. We did find normal deviation in contrast though.

Contrast degradation with time we have not observed lately...


Regards,
Ekki
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post #150 of 183 Old 08-09-2011, 09:35 AM
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Why is so hard to get a CMS system right? I think it takes special knowledge and understanding of color theory that most projector engineers don't have. Its not that they are incompetent, its just that like many of us don't fully grasp everything like varying the stimulus level etc. 100% this, 75% that. Its no shame not to grasp everything about CMS and how to design a CMS that most will be happy with.

Once again, I will go to my standard to dial everything thing in. A fully and properly working external CMS which I already own. But from what our friends overseas tell us, its pretty close out of the box and only the obsessed may be distressed. Damn. I like the end of the last sentence.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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