Official Sony VPL-HW30(A)ES Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Avatar26 View Post


LOL
Thanks guys, needed that. Had to come back to this thread after a couple of days of lurking on a much more evil forum in pursuit of the elusive HP Touchpad (no commentary, looking for 3 year old twins for music, movies, and Angry Birds so daddy can get his iPad2 back on a regular basis).

Still looking for somewhere remotely close to me in WI to view the HW30 live. I continue to lean this way based on subjective reviews and despite the "professional" review of the new Panny based on light output, MotionFlow, and the centrally-located lens. If anyone is in WI and knows of a place that has the HW30 PROPERLY set up for 2D/3D light-controlled demo, please PM me. Willing to drive up to 2 hrs for a lengthy demo, 45 mins for a Best Buy (read: crappy) demo.

There is a place in naperville, il that has the sony in a light controlled room with a direct tv feed and blu ray demos. Dont have the name on top of my head, but the cross streets are 75th and rickett.
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post #452 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
...I used the Cinema preset. However, all the presets do is select a pre-defined combination of settings in the user menu. You could emulate any of the presets by simply choosing a User preset and manually selecting all of the associated menu settings.

Light output
With the iris fully open, the lamp on high, the white point calibrated to D65, the Color Space set to Normal, and Contrast set at 85, I measured 832 lumens, which translated to a much-too-bright 30 fL on Mark's 110" Studiotek. You can get more light by raising the contrast control even higher, but then white begins to clip.

Contrast
Iris Open: 5400:1
Iris half closed: 6750:1
Iris fully closed: 7550:1
Auto 1: 25,500:1
Auto 2: 18,800:1

Grayscale Tracking
The best grayscale tracking was with the Low 2 setting. This gave an somewhat reddish white point with a dE average of about 8 in the CIELUV color space. Custom calibration improves this significantly. Post-calibration I got the average dE down to about 2 above 10%. At 10% the reddish tint was uncorrectable.

Gamma
There are several gamma presets and each one includes the ability to tweak the response at the low and high end. I got the best gamma with a setting of 3. Gamma set to Off was a close second.


...
Great post Tom,
Which Cinema preset did you use? On gamma your scale has 2.2 to 2.35 as ideal target which Gamma 3 falls into. However Gamma off seems to track a little closer to 2.2. Is 2.2 to 2.35 considered more accurate for D65 than 2.2 +/- x-amount?
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post #453 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by HeckMc View Post

Can anyone please confirm that his HW30 has an overall clear and sharp picture with a windows desktop or test pattern. It is anoying to have a 3K+ projector where a pc desktop or a simple progress bar of a movie would reveal such issues.

Thanks in advance,
HeckMc
Can you take a few photos of the blurred area to see how bad it is? If you look a few pages back, another member had an HW30 which looked like a double image in the corners. I am curious if it's the same thing, or just uneven focus.


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Are you using an A-lens Jason in your CIH setup? I thought you had a 1.78 screen for some reason.
I have a 142" 16:9 Cinema Contour and made a cool set up of custom masks using the same velvet material that I bought from Dalite to cover the masks. I rarely use them since the JVC is so dark and the Sony is right there along with it. it's only when I use the Acer for watching TV that the bars bother me since the black floor on that projector is awful.



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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Normal


Otherwise, it was very bright, with good color, white balance, and gamma when selecting the right menu options. Its native contrast is also quite good, though not as good as the much more expensive Mitsubishi. Sony also has one the best dynamic irises available for those who wish to take advantage of this technology.
Tom thank you for taking the time to post the measurements. After fiddling with the RS50 for months, I knew right away that Normal and Gamma=off was about as good as it gets with out of the box settings.

This is remarkable that a relatively low cost projector would have settings this close to accurate out of the box vs. my 2x expensive JVC which needed huge changes in gray scale & gamma settings regardless of what lamp I used. I would recommend the Sony for folks who are looking for great out of the box IQ and Color without being forced to immediately calibrate as was necessary on the JVC.

Regarding DI, I have seen many projectors whose DI make me cringe since I can easily see it. The Sony is possibly the best i've seen (or more important, not seen) to date. For my eyes, it's transparent and might explain why I am not rushing to hook up the JVC again. Mixed contrast scenes are very good and the iris handles dark scenes well.
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post #454 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 08:43 AM
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Thanks Jason. Yeah with a CIW screen (instead of CIH) like you have, you dont have to worry about messing with the lens after you get it set up.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #455 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Thanks Jason. Yeah with a CIW screen (instead of CIH) like you have, you dont have to worry about messing with the lens after you get it set up.
oops, no wonder I threw you off - CIW, not CIH. The 2:35:1 setup is still 133" diagonal, I didn't want to sacrifice 16:9 size by going the other way around.

142" for 16:9 and 133" for 2:35:1 is nice. I'd have gone even bigger if I had the room! long live the 2.8HP material.
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post #456 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Avatar26 View Post
LOL
Thanks guys, needed that. Had to come back to this thread after a couple of days of lurking on a much more evil forum in pursuit of the elusive HP Touchpad (no commentary, looking for 3 year old twins for music, movies, and Angry Birds so daddy can get his iPad2 back on a regular basis).

Still looking for somewhere remotely close to me in WI to view the HW30 live. I continue to lean this way based on subjective reviews and despite the "professional" review of the new Panny based on light output, MotionFlow, and the centrally-located lens. If anyone is in WI and knows of a place that has the HW30 PROPERLY set up for 2D/3D light-controlled demo, please PM me. Willing to drive up to 2 hrs for a lengthy demo, 45 mins for a Best Buy (read: crappy) demo.
I'm in the same boat as you. Maybe if we both bug Suess Electronics in Appleton enough, they'll get one set up so that we stop bugging them. I know I am(bugging them that is)!
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post #457 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jutang View Post
There is a place in naperville, il that has the sony in a light controlled room with a direct tv feed and blu ray demos. Dont have the name on top of my head, but the cross streets are 75th and rickett.

Could that be ABT Electronics you're thinking of?

EDIT: It's actually..... http://www.deluxeaudioandvideo.com/
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post #458 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 09:16 AM
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post #459 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 09:39 AM
 
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I had a few guys ask for a stock update so i thought i'd just update it here....

We currently have 17 units in stock.

Thanks!

Benito
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post #460 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I'll add to the OP.
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post #461 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by gregoryborley View Post
'The impact of not having your eyes plagued by crosstalk for 99.9% of your viewing time with the HS30ES can't be overstated, making the 3D experience infinitely more relaxing, natural, crisp, detailed and deep than it was on the VW90ES. In short, by avoiding crosstalk the HW30ES shows up all the advantages of active 3D in impressive fashion.'

I am curious how much the new glasses have to do with large reduction in ghosting compared to the VW90.

'Colours in 3D mode look natural too. Also extremely impressive is how stable and fluid 3D pictures look if you engage the projector's motion processing. Normally, of course, we wouldn't advise that you use such motion processing, but the system in the HS30ES is remarkably good and sensitive for such an affordable machine, and we genuinely preferred to have it on (at its lowest setting, mind you) during 3D viewing.'

I agree, I have watched about 10+ different 3D BD's and prefer to leave the Motion Flow on low all the time. it works well without looking overly processed.
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post #462 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:29 AM
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Hi,

here are two photos with this issue.

The projector is leveled, lens shift is used only at a minimum. The screen is wall mounted, flat and the image has no keystone.

Thanks for your feedback.
LL
LL
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post #463 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeckMc View Post
Hi,

here are two photos with this issue.

The projector is leveled, lens shift is used only at a minimum. The screen is wall mounted, flat and the image has no keystone.

Thanks for your feedback.
Looks like the issue William was having

Did you try using any test patterns and try to refocus the projector? If you could have someone verify while you tried to focus it that would be best.
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post #464 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by HeckMc View Post
Hi,

here are two photos with this issue.

The projector is leveled, lens shift is used only at a minimum. The screen is wall mounted, flat and the image has no keystone.

Thanks for your feedback.
this looks very similar to the issue that William had with his first projector.

It looks like a double image upon close inspection but probably looks out of focus from seating distance. Is this similar based on William's photo from the beginning of the thread?

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post #465 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:40 AM
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Now that I have a whopping dozen hours on my HW30, I thought I'd post some observations that I don't think I've seen anyone else talk about yet.

1) I have a new Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver. Out of the box, I had problems getting the HW30 to power on when connected to the receiver; it would blink standby/on for 5 seconds or so and then flash the standby/on 12 times red over and over without getting so far as to turn the fan on.

Long story short, I had to change the standby mode from 'low' to 'standard' to get the projector to reliably turn on when connected to the TX-NR809, and even now have to unplug the HDMI to get the projector to turn on when it is first plugged in. I attribute this to most likely HDMI handshaking. Both products have RIHD (HDMI control), but both have this feature turned off.

2) My HW30 only seems to vent hot air out of one side - can someone verify that theirs does the same?

3) I have a Da-lite grey screen with a gain of 1.3 that's many years old (back from when home projectors had very poor contrast). Last night I was watching a 3D show with people skiing and noticed the snow was green on the lower left corner of the screen and red in the lower right corner. On further experimentation, if I look at a projected white background wearing the 3D glasses but with the glasses OFF, the lower left corner of the screen is definitely tinted green and the lower right is tinted red. I can only see this wearing the 3D glasses- there is no perceptible color shift without the glasses. If the glasses are on watching a 3D show, the color shift is still there but not as strong as with the glasses off.

I used all my vast technical experience and came up with the high-tech experiment of putting a sheet of white paper in each lower corner of the screen and then checking the result. Now wearing the 3D glasses, I don't see the green/red color shift in the corners with the paper. So clearly this is due to my screen - can anyone explain why (I see light polarization discussed often)?
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post #466 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gregoryborley

I'm in the same boat as you. Maybe if we both bug Suess Electronics in Appleton enough, they'll get one set up so that we stop bugging them. I know I am(bugging them that is)!
Last guy I spoke to at Suess told me the projector hadn't been released yet (after forum members had them in hand and BB had theirs hanging).
They do have decent demo rooms, and don't fuss about bringing in your own source material.
Still, sounded to me like they weren't planning on getting any in until Sept.
Would be nice, it's about a 15-20 min drive from my place and quieter than BB.
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post #467 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
this looks very similar to the issue that William had with his first projector.

It looks like a double image upon close inspection but probably looks out of focus from seating distance. Is this similar based on William's photo from the beginning of the thread?
Hi,

I also found his photo. My issue seems to be not that worse and I can focus the double image but than the other corner is way out of focus.

Thanks for your feedback.
I think it should be possible to get a good focus over the whole screen with a 3k+ projector

Ah and in addition I noticed a strange behaviour when connected to my Yamaha RX-V2700. The PS3 has some horizontal lines in some menus, e.g. when watching trophies or chat messages.
The upper line was only visible on the left side of the screen and on the right side the line was gone but I got to see parts of the line flickering. Using the PS3 attached directly to the projector did solve this issue.

Cheers,
HeckMc
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post #468 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by HeckMc View Post
Hi,

I also found his photo. My issue seems to be not that worse and I can focus the double image but than the other corner is way out of focus.

Thanks for your feedback.
I think it should be possible to get a good focus over the whole screen with a 3k+ projector

Cheers,
HeckMc
if it bothers you, ask the dealer to exchange it. You should be able to expect a projector for 3k+ that focuses evenly within some reason over the entire screen. My guess is that Sony has some lens elements that are shifting during production or shipment from Japan. My first JVC RS40 was REALLY bad. Sharp in the center, soft on the left, very soft on the right. The 2nd projector had dead on focus from edge to edge.

By some luck, my HW30 is quite even from edge to edge and do not see the double focus in any of the corners. I run an HTPC so my first screen I see is a windows desktop where i'll focus to make sure the 'my computer' icon, start menu and time are all as sharp as possible. Then I know i'm good for movies.


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Originally Posted by Ponziani View Post

I used all my vast technical experience and came up with the high-tech experiment of putting a sheet of white paper in each lower corner of the screen and then checking the result. Now wearing the 3D glasses, I don't see the green/red color shift in the corners with the paper. So clearly this is due to my screen - can anyone explain why (I see light polarization discussed often)?
Ron Jones could answer this one with ease. Send him a PM if he doesn't respond to this thread.
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post #469 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 10:59 AM
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Anyone know if Sony's going to have kids glasses come out for this projector? Or am i just best to pick up some of the current glasses and request poloarizing filters?

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post #470 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by William View Post
Great post Tom,
Which Cinema preset did you use? On gamma your scale has 2.2 to 2.35 as ideal target which Gamma 3 falls into. However Gamma off seems to track a little closer to 2.2. Is 2.2 to 2.35 considered more accurate for D65 than 2.2 +/- x-amount?
Gamma 3 averaged 2.27. Gamma Off averaged 2.15.

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post #471 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 11:00 AM
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Hey guys,
I am looking at getting a 113 inch black diamond screen for this projector. Should I get the 1.4 gain version, or the .8? How are you guys finding your brightness on your screen sizes in 3d and 2d?
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post #472 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 11:02 AM
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I wonder how many units have this focus problem. I hope when my replacement comes for my fan issue, that it doesn't have the focus problem
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post #473 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by browerjs View Post
Anyone know if Sony's going to have kids glasses come out for this projector? Or am i just best to pick up some of the current glasses and request poloarizing filters?
google search joe rod on highdefjunkie(s).

He and some other members used the kids glasses from before and picked up the required polarizers direct from Sony. They list all the parts in the HW30 discussion on that site.

If it works out well, please post your results as I would be interested in doing the same. With my poor experience with the Xpand 103's and Monster Vision 3D's, I am not hopeful there are too many glasses that are going to work as well as the model that shipped with the HW30.
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post #474 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
google search joe rod on highdefjunkie(s).

He and some other members used the kids glasses from before and picked up the required polarizers direct from Sony. They list all the parts in the HW30 discussion on that site.

If it works out well, please post your results as I would be interested in doing the same. With my poor experience with the Xpand 103's and Monster Vision 3D's, I am not hopeful there are too many glasses that are going to work as well as the model that shipped with the HW30.
Yea, I've seen that post, however I was hoping for native kids glasses that would work for the projector. I'm also in no hurry.

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post #475 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeckMc View Post

Hi,

here are two photos with this issue.

The projector is leveled, lens shift is used only at a minimum. The screen is wall mounted, flat and the image has no keystone.

Thanks for your feedback.

Yes that does look like the double issue (and I should know). Did you try projector's Panel alignment and do you see 2 white vertical lines?
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...I think it should be possible to get a good focus over the whole screen with a 3k+ projector....

As I stated in my PM it's not a focus problem and likely not even lens related. It's more likely a bad chip/board/connection or electronic problem causing it (at least 3 I know of (counting yours) were released into the wild).
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post #476 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponziani View Post

...2) My HW30 only seems to vent hot air out of one side - can someone verify that theirs does the same?...

Hope it's not coming out of the projector's front right side.

Not sure about your screen but the main thing is you now KNOW it's the problem so no mater what what the cause you must deal with it.
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post #477 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 12:18 PM
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Not sure about your screen but the main thing is you now KNOW it's the problem so no mater what what the cause you must deal with it.

Agreed - I needed an excuse to go from 92" to 110" anyway
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post #478 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Avatar26 View Post

Last guy I spoke to at Suess told me the projector hadn't been released yet (after forum members had them in hand and BB had theirs hanging).
They do have decent demo rooms, and don't fuss about bringing in your own source material.
Still, sounded to me like they weren't planning on getting any in until Sept.
Would be nice, it's about a 15-20 min drive from my place and quieter than BB.

I'm working with a guy at Suess for my basement theater project(only dealer close to me that had GoldenEar). He said he'll notify me the second they get one in. When he does I'll shoot you a note.
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post #479 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

oops, no wonder I threw you off - CIW, not CIH. The 2:35:1 setup is still 133" diagonal, I didn't want to sacrifice 16:9 size by going the other way around.

142" for 16:9 and 133" for 2:35:1 is nice. I'd have gone even bigger if I had the room! long live the 2.8HP material.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

Your screen sounds fantastic! Makes me wish I could go bigger which I cant. I am maxed out both height and width in my setup.

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post #480 of 3323 Old 08-23-2011, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HeckMc View Post

Hi,

I also found his photo. My issue seems to be not that worse and I can focus the double image but than the other corner is way out of focus.

Thanks for your feedback.
I think it should be possible to get a good focus over the whole screen with a 3k+ projector

Ah and in addition I noticed a strange behaviour when connected to my Yamaha RX-V2700. The PS3 has some horizontal lines in some menus, e.g. when watching trophies or chat messages.
The upper line was only visible on the left side of the screen and on the right side the line was gone but I got to see parts of the line flickering. Using the PS3 attached directly to the projector did solve this issue.


Cheers,
HeckMc

Not a projector issue if removing the AVR from the equation removed the problem. You might check in the Onkyo thread for your AVR and see if anybody else has had this problem.
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