Official Sony VPL-HW30(A)ES Owners Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

Jason the VW90ES have the same ethernet port 3D connection. I will try to answer you about the pin-outs

Kraine - thanks very much. I really want to use my Monster Vision 3D glasses with the Sony and it would be very easy to make a 3 Pin -> RJ45 connector once I can find out the pin values.

thank you!


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post #32 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

3D MKV's can't play back in 3D frame packed mode which is likely going to challenge any LCOS 3D system.

I have a 3D MKV of Avatar and the 3D Bluray as well. imo, there is no comparison between the two in regard to overall quality, sharpness, ghosting, etc. This is the case with all my 3D MKV's and really don't bother with them since I have the 3D ISO's stored on my 12TB NAS.

100% agree with Zombie and he explained why. 2D MKV's are fine in this regards.

The fact both of us came to the conclusion that so far these units come close to the Acer/Optoma/any 720p 3D DLP varient says a lot.
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post #33 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by William View Post

Thanks, I'll give it a try this evening. So for refresh rate at 1080p it needs to be set to 24Hz?


I hope the focus problem works out but I'm stating to become concerned that my lens may be defective.

1080p will be 24hz, correct. The HDMI 1.4 spec does not allow for 60fps yet.
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post #34 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

William - how far off is the focus in the corners if center is accurate? What image are you focusing on?

I am so used to the autofocus on the JVC that I am having a tough time getting it right on the Sony. I tried Binoculars as someone else suggested, but it's not the same as pressing my nose against the screen with a remote control in hand making micro-adjustments.

I'll look closer tonight at mine to see what it looks like on the edges vs. center.


edit: has anyone viewed the single pixel pattern test on the AVS disk. My convergence is definitely off a bit, but can be easily fixed with the adjustment controls. Someone mentioned not to do this as it would soften the image. This wasn't the case when correcting my JVC's pixel adjustments. Does the Sony do something different that can affectsharpness during panel alignment?

I was just looking at a Windows desktop and noticed the Start button was fuzzy. I then used both the Windows desktop and the (1) internal test pattern. It is maybe an 1/8 of a turn on the focus to get the center in focus and then 1/8 back to get the 4 corner in focus. Hard to assign a specific value to this but from what I saw it was unacceptable.

Strange it only has one test pattern built in.

I have ISF HDTV Calibration Wizard BD, THX Calibration BD and Qdeo HD Video Evaluation disc. I will try some patterns in these tonight and see if I can better determine the extent of the focus problem. I also have to work on my 3D problem too and have very little time tonight.
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post #35 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

1080p will be 24hz, correct. The HDMI 1.4 spec does not allow for 60fps yet.

Thanks, I wasn't sure if something like 48Hz should show up since this is close to the actual frame rate/data stream.
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post #36 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 11:13 AM
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post #37 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

Thanks, I wasn't sure if something like 48Hz should show up since this is close to the actual frame rate/data stream.

Just a technical question. Isn't the 3D stream still considered 24fps with a double height frame or SBS or checkerboard (display must extract left/right eye from this "one" frame) as opposed to 48fps where the first frame is left eye and the 2nd frame is right eye? Is there any 1.4 HDMI 3D mode that isn't always a left/right image packed into a single frame?
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post #38 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 12:42 PM
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William. How much lens shift are you using? If you can, look (from the side) at the chip image exiting the lens. Is it centered, if not, how much is it shifted from center?

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post #39 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Anstey View Post

Just a technical question. Isn't the 3D stream still considered 24fps with a double height frame or SBS or checkerboard (display must extract left/right eye from this "one" frame) as opposed to 48fps where the first frame is left eye and the 2nd frame is right eye? Is there any 1.4 HDMI 3D mode that isn't always a left/right image packed into a single frame?

A standard 2D 1080p frame is 1080 (plus blanking area) x1920. A Packed3D frame (unpacked) is 2205 pixels (plus blanking area) x1920. So I guess while it is still 24 fps (24Hz) it does contain 2x +45 pixels more info than a standard 24Hz 2D. So in effect the amount of data and number of frames would equal a little more than 48fps (48Hz).
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post #40 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

William. How much lens shift are you using? If you can, look (from the side) at the chip image exiting the lens. Is it centered, if not, how much is it shifted from center?

Mark,
It should be very little since the projector is almost screen center (about 3/4 of the way from the bottom of the screen and 1/4 of the way down) but I will look tonight and report back. Will also play around and hopefully I just did something wrong. For reference here is a pic of where the projector sits and the screen. The rear speakers are about the same hight (tall) as the front mains.


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post #41 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 03:45 PM
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ghosting really from what i have seen comes when you do the 2d to 3d conversion and have effect set on high or in regular 3d when you have depth at #2 setting. if you have effect set to low or depth at 0 or 1 3d is really pretty good on this. in the opening scenes to RIO everything is really sharp and clear and the 3d effect is really cool. with 3d movies and setting depth at 0 i really didnt see much in the way of gosting.
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post #42 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 04:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Black HR21. When I gave the girl the reference code on the screen she said there were some early HR21's that don't work well with 3D and she feels a replacement will resolve the issue. If I don't get the new box in by this weekend I will take my upstairs one and bring it downstairs to test just to confirm.

As far as the 2D I know everyone is going to feel differently on this so this is just my opinion with the out-of-box settings on cinema and standard presets. Once you throw it into high lamp mode the picture is amazing with my particular screen. I have a pretty far throw distance, low gain, and a very large screen so that isn't helping things.

From your description of your screen earlier, I am guessing that you have a Center Stage XD screen. I seem to remember testing on the material and it was closer to 1.1 gain. Is your screen a 140" 1.78 screen? If so that is a lot of area to light up. HW30Es sounds like a real winner if it can do that.

Added
I guess I should have read down a few more posts because someone else asked the same question and your screen is 1.78.
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post #43 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mjg100 View Post

From your description of your screen earlier, I am guessing that you have a Center Stage XD screen. I seem to remember testing on the material and it was closer to 1.1 gain. Is your screen a 140" 1.78 screen? If so that is a lot of area to light up. HW30Es sounds like a real winner if it can do that.

Correct, and I believe the gain is advertised at 1.2 but I could be wrong

I have no doubt if throwing on a smaller screen even with a regular gain screen this thing would shine. I am waiting for my son to get to bed and I will be hooking up my new receiver from DirecTV, talk about service (1 day turn around!)
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post #44 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 22emmittfan View Post

ghosting really from what i have seen comes when you do the 2d to 3d conversion and have effect set on high or in regular 3d when you have depth at #2 setting. if you have effect set to low or depth at 0 or 1 3d is really pretty good on this. in the opening scenes to RIO everything is really sharp and clear and the 3d effect is really cool. with 3d movies and setting depth at 0 i really didnt see much in the way of gosting.

This is what I experienced as well. Once you go above 1 you run into ghosting issues but overall I was impressed with the 2D > 3D feature. I am going to try out some games tonight that are not native 3D.
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post #45 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 04:53 PM
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So the 1080p $3,500 3D projectors are catching up to the $500 720p DLP 3D projectors for 3D image quality.
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post #46 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Stereoscopic needs to be enabled and it should be if you are using 3DTV and it is functioning. Once you hook up the projector it should detect an HDMI 1.4 device and show you those settings.

For the settings, for 1080p you can output at 24hz and for 720p you can do 120hz. Mine autodetects and I don't have to mess with this.

Use the nvidia stereoscopic player, I never could get Theater 5 to work with anything well. The other alternative is the new PowerDVD.

Also, for the Sony I had to disable my laptop's lcd in order to get 3D to work. Go under multiple displays and disable your LCD and just keep the Sony checked.

Followed your instructions (for there most part) but for some reason sine I update the software/driver the Stereoscopic menu is no longer available. A couple of storage anomalies I noticed and here is a copy of my Nvidia system iso (if it means anything).

NVIDIA System Information report created on: 08/11/2011 18:06:03
System name: HTPC

[Display]
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate, 64-bit (Service Pack 1)
DirectX version: 11.0
GPU processor: GeForce GT 520
Driver version: 275.33
DirectX support: 11
CUDA Cores: 48
Core clock: 810 MHz
Shader clock: 1620 MHz
Memory clock: 600 MHz (1200 MHz data rate)
Memory interface: 64-bit
Total available graphics memory: 2815 MB
Dedicated video memory: 1024 MB DDR3
System video memory: 0 MB
Shared system memory: 1791 MB
Video BIOS version: 75.19.1B.00.01
IRQ: 16
Bus: PCI Express x16

[Components]

easyUpdatusAPIU64.DLL 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
WLMerger.exe 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
Nvlhr.exe 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
daemonu.exe 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
ComUpdatusPS.dll 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
ComUpdatus.exe 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
NvUpdtr.dll 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
NvUpdt.dll 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
nvui.dll 7.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdsync.exe 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdplcy.dll 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdbat.dll 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdapix.dll 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
NVCPL.DLL 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvCplUIR.dll 3.7.730.01 NVIDIA Control Panel
nvCplUI.exe 3.7.730.01 NVIDIA Control Panel
nvWSSR.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Workstation Server
nvWSS.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Workstation Server
nvViTvSR.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Video Server
nvViTvS.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Video Server
NVSTVIEW.EXE 7.17.12.6742 NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision
NVSTTEST.EXE 7.17.12.6742 NVIDIA 3D Vision Test Application
NVSTRES.DLL 7.17.12.6742 NVIDIA 3D Vision Module (0)
nvDispSR.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Display Server
NVMCTRAY.DLL 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA Media Center Library
nvDispS.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Display Server
PhysX 09.10.0514 NVIDIA PhysX
NVCUDA.DLL 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA CUDA 4.0.1 driver
nvGameSR.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server
nvGameS.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server

When I play a 2D move in TMT5 you can't select 3D (always been this way). When I play a 3D move it says it's in 3D but it's just like 2D on the projector (projector set to Auto 3D). I now the projector glasses are working because I can use simulated 3D. Also when I have a 3D movie playing the projector goes out of power saving and you can't select it. I'm actually pretty bummed because my focus problem is really bad (makes it unwatchable) and can't get 3D to work to boot.

Center of screen sharp but sides or will look at the 2ed pic.


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post #47 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 05:44 PM
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HR22 DirecTV receiver box hooked up, 3D works perfectly on all the channels without any fuss. Some things to note: The 3D depth feature is enabled which is cool but motionflow and lamp mode are disabled just like when you watch MKV files! I am really disappointed you can't adjust either of these with TV. I am going to have to assume it is defaulting in high brightness mode by default and that is why that is not showing up, but motionflow I don't get at all.

This option remains accessible when using my Samsung 3D bluray player so it is not a problem there and I must say it is remarkable. If anyone loves 3D as much as I do this projector is just awesome for what it can do. There is/was slight ghosting with Monsters vs. Aliens on the bridge scene and in others but if you set the depth to -1 it goes away. Simulated 2D > 3D works well with games as well and having the ability to add motionflow on top of it is even better, especially for racing games.

I am going to check for fuzzy corners as reported by William in a minute with my laptop.
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post #48 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 07:01 PM
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William,

Bad news, I could not reproduce the fuzyness issue you are experiencing on mine. Here is my laptop hooked up to the projector and no other adjustments taken with my iphone4.

The good news is if you can't figure it out I live in Atlanta as well so maybe we can meet up and test your unit out over here or I could bring mine by.

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post #49 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 07:07 PM
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@ William - it's difficult to tell with a handheld shot. Do you have a camera w/ tripod?

what is your HTPC setup?

I am using an Windows 64bit install, Nvidia GT430 half height card and the Nvidia drivers from a few months ago. I do have the Nvidia dongle hooked up which enables 3D playback via the drivers. it works perfect with TMT5 and Power DVD 10.

The new Nvidia drivers will not play back 3D unless you 1. either have the hardware dongle installed or 2. purchase the $40 software that allows 3D playback on HDMI 1.4 devices.

I am not sure if this applies to your setup, but I am posting for anyone looking to use the Nvidia cards to drive their Sony HW30's.


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post #50 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

Followed your instructions (for there most part) but for some reason sine I update the software/driver the Stereoscopic menu is no longer available. A couple of storage anomalies I noticed and here is a copy of my Nvidia system iso (if it means anything).

NVIDIA System Information report created on: 08/11/2011 18:06:03
System name: HTPC

[Display]
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate, 64-bit (Service Pack 1)
DirectX version: 11.0
GPU processor: GeForce GT 520
Driver version: 275.33
DirectX support: 11
CUDA Cores: 48
Core clock: 810 MHz
Shader clock: 1620 MHz
Memory clock: 600 MHz (1200 MHz data rate)
Memory interface: 64-bit
Total available graphics memory: 2815 MB
Dedicated video memory: 1024 MB DDR3
System video memory: 0 MB
Shared system memory: 1791 MB
Video BIOS version: 75.19.1B.00.01
IRQ: 16
Bus: PCI Express x16

[Components]

easyUpdatusAPIU64.DLL 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
WLMerger.exe 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
Nvlhr.exe 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
daemonu.exe 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
ComUpdatusPS.dll 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
ComUpdatus.exe 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
NvUpdtr.dll 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
NvUpdt.dll 1.3.5.0 NVIDIA Update Components
nvui.dll 7.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdsync.exe 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdplcy.dll 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdbat.dll 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvxdapix.dll 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
NVCPL.DLL 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA User Experience Driver Component
nvCplUIR.dll 3.7.730.01 NVIDIA Control Panel
nvCplUI.exe 3.7.730.01 NVIDIA Control Panel
nvWSSR.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Workstation Server
nvWSS.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Workstation Server
nvViTvSR.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Video Server
nvViTvS.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Video Server
NVSTVIEW.EXE 7.17.12.6742 NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision
NVSTTEST.EXE 7.17.12.6742 NVIDIA 3D Vision Test Application
NVSTRES.DLL 7.17.12.6742 NVIDIA 3D Vision Module (0)
nvDispSR.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Display Server
NVMCTRAY.DLL 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA Media Center Library
nvDispS.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA Display Server
PhysX 09.10.0514 NVIDIA PhysX
NVCUDA.DLL 8.17.12.7533 NVIDIA CUDA 4.0.1 driver
nvGameSR.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server
nvGameS.dll 6.14.12.7533 NVIDIA 3D Settings Server

When I play a 2D move in TMT5 you can't select 3D (always been this way). When I play a 3D move it says it's in 3D but it's just like 2D on the projector (projector set to Auto 3D). I now the projector glasses are working because I can use simulated 3D. Also when I have a 3D movie playing the projector goes out of power saving and you can't select it. I'm actually pretty bummed because my focus problem is really bad (makes it unwatchable) and can't get 3D to work to boot.

Center of screen sharp but sides or will look at the 2ed pic.

Do you have the Nvidia 3D vision kit? If so hook it up and the options should show up in the control panel once you do the setup.

If you don't have the kit just get 3DTV from Nvidia's website for $40-50 and it will work since you have an HDMI 1.4 display.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play.html

I will also note I had this very issue with my DLP TV upstairs because it is NOT HDMI 1.4 compliant. In order to get the 3D options to show up with it I had to have the 3D Kit dongle attached to my PC and even then it still gave me issues. Reinstalling the drivers with it hooked up to my TV and having the dongle plugged in resolved the issue.
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post #51 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 07:18 PM
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what are the chances.. the first 3 owners posting all own HTPC's.


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post #52 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

what are the chances.. the first 3 owners posting all own HTPC's.

2011 baby!

Looking forward to your comparison shootout Zombie. I can only go by memory since I don't have any of my previous projectors on-hand. The more time I spend with the Sony the more I like it, especially for the price and nothing has ever really "wowed" me before. The image is a tad softer than I was hoping for but my room is far from optimal and it really works against the projector having a screen this size with such a minimal gain. I think calibrating will definitely help since the contrast is on 90 and brightness is at 50.

I surprised the wife tonight (she didn't know I upgraded) and she was blown away by some of the scenes I showed her on this projector. There is NO comparison between a 60" 3D TV and a 140" projector screen and since the wife and kid are going out of town this weekend I will be revisiting all the good 3D scenes from various movies. The only time I felt the Sony was a tad too dark were in night scenes or really dark scenes from animated movies. When we watched Space Hubble 3D that movie is primarly dark because of the black space background and I didn't have any issues with the light output in Cinema mode 1.
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post #53 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 08:34 PM
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WTH??? I finally log in tonight to see what's going on with the new Sony reports and instead drop into an HTPC love fest..... From you guys no doubt this projector will be put through its paces in more than the usual review for that fact alone. Very much looking forward to what you find, especially compared to the JVCs (40s and 50/60s) if they'd had no lamp issues.
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post #54 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 08:55 PM
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I received my projector today. My findings are very similar to what others are saying. I'm running a relatively small 100 inch screen in a dedicated fully light controlled room. I was able to switch the lamp to low power and have no problems with brightness on my 1.4 gain screen. I watched Tahiti Ultimate Wave and Despicable Me with the kids. Ghosting was almost non existent. It is probably also worth noting that I was able to use some of the Sony TDG-BR50 child size glasses. I had ordered the appropriate filters from Sony a few weeks earlier. I'm guessing these are the same as the ones that come with the VW90. The Sony part number is 145831421. The glasses worked perfectly once the filters were installed.

For the emitter I used two cat 5e patch cords. I had some extra cat 6 runs put in during construction. I used a patch cord from the projector to the wall plate then at the screen I used the other patch cord from that wall plate to the emitter. I placed the emitter below the screen. I had no sync problems at all in the first row or the second row which is elevated on a riser.
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post #55 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 08:58 PM
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WTH??? I finally log in tonight to see what's going on with the new Sony reports and instead drop into an HTPC love fest..... From you guys no doubt this projector will be put through its paces in more than the usual review for that fact alone. Very much looking forward to what you find, especially compared to the JVCs (40s and 50/60s) if they'd had no lamp issues.

Ron, I need some time over the weekend to calibrate both projectors @ D65 and will take some lumen measurements of both projectors, each with a new lamp.

My initial impression is that the Sony is handling 3D better than the JVC with the toughest of the 3D scenes using 3D frame packed blurays for the source. The lack of warmup time to jump right into 3D is a major plus. In addition, I am really enjoying the Motion Flow in 3D mode. It creates a rock solid 3D image that isn't overly processed.

There is also much less flicker on the Sony than I see on the JVC. I am hyper-sensitive to refresh rates and the slower refresh of the JVC panels is evident in comparison to the Sony. The HW30 + Motion Flow in 3D creates a more relaxing image for my eyes while viewing 3D. I think most folks who see this firsthand would appreciate it.

overall, a good report card so far for such an inexpensive projector that comes with the emitter and 2 pairs of glasses. Kudos to Sony for the 3 year warranty over JVC's 2 year.


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post #56 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 09:17 PM
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Nice touch, the 3 years over 2 years. I've never kept a digital projector that long.

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post #57 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 09:47 PM
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have to agree 3d images are pretty easy on the eyes with this projector. i don't feel the headache effect as i do at the theater with this
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post #58 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 11:01 PM
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Nice touch, the 3 years over 2 years. I've never kept a digital projector that long.

Ive never kept one over 100 hours on the bulb!
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post #59 of 3309 Old 08-11-2011, 11:11 PM
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I was looking closer at the Sony and saw a 'made in Japan' sticker but everything else (glasses, emitter) are made in China.

Is Sony the only projector manufacturer still making their product in Japan?

I would like the Sony that much more if it had the same style as the Qualia or VW200. Those were great, futuristic looking projectors.


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post #60 of 3309 Old 08-12-2011, 02:36 AM - Thread Starter
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@ William - it's difficult to tell with a handheld shot. Do you have a camera w/ tripod?..

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William,

Bad news, I could not reproduce the fuzyness issue you are experiencing on mine. Here is my laptop hooked up to the projector and no other adjustments taken with my iphone4.

The good news is if you can't figure it out I live in Atlanta as well so maybe we can meet up and test your unit out over here or I could bring mine by.

I took a lot more pics and Mark has looked at them. It seems my HW30 is defective. I guess I don't need to worry about 3D right now. To me it seems that maybe the lens elements are miss aligned (but then what do I know). Time to unpack my JVC and hook it back up.
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