Official Sony VPL-HW30(A)ES Owners Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3323 Old 09-01-2011, 06:19 PM
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Hey all, what throw distance do I need for a 113" black diamond screen in 16x9? Should I do a closer throw for better 3d brightness?
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post #722 of 3323 Old 09-01-2011, 08:12 PM
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Happy to say I'm part of the Sony HW30 club now, just got mine last night from AVS. Got it mounted and hooked up quickly last night and was able to quickly look at one of the Shrek movies just to see how it looked. Happy to say my unit is whisper quiet, I think it's a little quieter than my RS15 and that's when the Sony is in high lamp mode. Out of the box colour is very good, used the DVE calibration disk with the filters to check RGB and they were very close but will try a full calibration once it's broken in. Hooked my emitter up with Cat6 shielded cable and no problems there. Only thing I wish Sony had done was provide four mounting holes like the JVC, just found that to be an easier way to ceiling mount it. Found the 2d performance to be as good as the RS15, with about the same level of black level performance. Loved the 3D from what I saw far, Sony has done a good job with it, just wish the glasses were a little more comfortable but an improvement over the Sharp 3D glasses that I have been using with their 60" set. So far the only thing I wished the Sony did better was put a powered focus on it and wish the picture was a little sharper. But with that it's a great value for the cost of it and so far very happy and can't wait to really give it a workout over this long weekend.
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post #723 of 3323 Old 09-01-2011, 08:22 PM
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I picked up a pair of BR50 glasses to try out for a friend who has the HW30 and small kids who don't like adult sized glasses.

I ordered the polarizing lenses from Sony's parts website, $14.99 per set. They were supposed to be free but I ran out of patience with their customer service trying to get them to look up a KB article @ Sony which states they are supposed to be free.

The blue pair has the lenses installed, the pink pair doesn't have them in place. I'll check it out later tonight to go back to my M v A torture scene to see if these work as well on the HW30 as the new glasses.

btw, something happens when the shutters are activated, the color shift isn't anywhere near as bad as it looks by the yellowish/green tint you see in the photos with the glasses turned off.

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post #724 of 3323 Old 09-01-2011, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

Hey all, what throw distance do I need for a 113" black diamond screen in 16x9? Should I do a closer throw for better 3d brightness?

I have a 120" screen with about a 12 1/2' throw. I'm about as close as you can go for that size - could probably go a couple more inches. So I'd say you could probably go 12' on the short side. My understanding is short throw will sacrifice some contrast, but I wanted brighter since I like to have guests to watch football and have more of a "club room" than a dedicated theater.
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post #725 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:29 AM
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OK, after spending a bunch of time in 2D on my new unit, I went to go look at 3D again and it was still looking very fuzzy and giving me a headache. It is ghosting like crazy compared to my first unit I had. No wonder it is giving me a headache.

I took these pics and vids on max brightness for the glasses because the pictures look better that way, but the exact same thing happens to the same extent when they are set at the lowest setting. Is it possible the emitter is somehow out of sync on my new model?

These are just two examples, it happens throughout the movie, I could pause it almost anywhere and do this. Unless I'm looking at one specific angle constantly, and moving my head with my eyes to keep the angle things seem to work at, the ghosting is terrible. Also, it is hard to tell from the videos, but as you look through different parts of the glasses, the image is darker or brighter (brighter at angles there is more ghosting). Again, you don't have to move much to get it to change. I'd have to put my head in a vice and force my eyeballs to keep straight to not get this to happen.

Here is example one near the beginning of the movie. Click on the picture to see the movie. Watch the top, the light part of the building at how the level of ghosting changes as you rotate your head.


Now near the end of the movie, I took a couple still frames. Notice the endges of the ship, and the round section of the helicopter, the background, I could go on




And the movie to show rotating back and forth. Click the link to view.


I'm guessing other people's don't do this?
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post #726 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:40 AM
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Hey,

I can reproduce your ghosting issue. I noticed it first when looking down to the table. At this time I saw the picture through the upper edge of the glasses and noticed this kind of ghosting. Leaning back again and everything was fine.

Maybe the glasses are not 100% equally filtered in the edges?

Regards

edit: Maybe it has something to do with the angle the light comes through the glasses? Or the screen?
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post #727 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:59 AM
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Hey,

I can reproduce your ghosting issue. I noticed it first when looking down to the table. At this time I saw the picture through the upper edge of the glasses and noticed this kind of ghosting. Leaning back again and everything was fine.

Maybe the glasses are not 100% equally filtered in the edges?

Regards

edit: Maybe it has something to do with the angle the light comes through the glasses? Or the screen?

But is it just extreme angles for you? Looking straight forward on both sets of my glasses, theres ghosting somewhere on the screen, so something always looks fuzzy. I'm constantly squinting and blinking my eyes on this new set, it is definetly worse than my other one. Another thing that makes me think somethign is wrong is that in my old unit, I could set the emitter strength from 0 to 1, and everything worked fine. The glasses stop working if I do that with my new unit.
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post #728 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Roshy View Post

Any sbs mkv I've tried looks TERRIBLE. I'm talking about the ones that are 1920x1080, so the 2 images for each eye are squished. Actual 3D content like blurays look GREAT. I've found top/bottom 3d content squished into 1920x1080 looks way way better than sbs so far. Could just be the sources though... just sharing my experience.

Thanks for the input, haven't checked any of those, but I really need to get a BD 3D reference, will try to pick one up in the weekend.
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post #729 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy View Post

But is it just extreme angles for you? Looking straight forward on both sets of my glasses, theres ghosting somewhere on the screen, so something always looks fuzzy. I'm constantly squinting and blinking my eyes on this new set, it is definetly worse than my other one. Another thing that makes me think somethign is wrong is that in my old unit, I could set the emitter strength from 0 to 1, and everything worked fine. The glasses stop working if I do that with my new unit.

Hi,

I have only tested one 3D Bluray yet. So I cannot proof this 100%, but yes it seems to be only with extreme angles. Extreme angles means that my screen is ~8,6 feet x ~4,87 feet. My viewing distance is about ~10-11 feet and my eye height is in the lower third of the screen. I see the ghosting effect when looking straight at the lower edge of the screen or a even little bit lower and it appears in the upper edge of the picture which is than viewed through the upper edge of the glasses.

Cheers
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post #730 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy View Post


But is it just extreme angles for you? Looking straight forward on both sets of my glasses, theres ghosting somewhere on the screen, so something always looks fuzzy. I'm constantly squinting and blinking my eyes on this new set, it is definetly worse than my other one. Another thing that makes me think somethign is wrong is that in my old unit, I could set the emitter strength from 0 to 1, and everything worked fine. The glasses stop working if I do that with my new unit.

I'm curious, if you turn your head side to side, does the ghosting move across the image in vertical bands?
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post #731 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 06:13 AM
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Hi,
Got my HW30es and love the picture. Very quite comparing to my 5 years old sony projector. I got the HW30es without glasses and emitter, if you know where I can get emitter and glasses, please let me know. Tried google serach, no luck.
Thankd in advance


Zongfu
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post #732 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by zfc6e View Post

Hi,
Got my HW30es and love the picture. Very quite comparing to my 5 years old sony projector. I got the HW30es without glasses and emitter, if you know where I can get emitter and glasses, please let me know. Tried google serach, no luck.
Thankd in advance


Zongfu

As far as I know you can't get the glasses yet. However you can get the TDG-BR250s, and then polarizing filters from Sony. I didn't have to pay for the polarizing filters, and they came in about 3 days, but zombie did have to pay, so YMMV.

As for the emitter, I haven't seen it anywhere either, but I think studiox_swe might have been able to obtain one.

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post #733 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I picked up a pair of BR50 glasses to try out for a friend who has the HW30 and small kids who don't like adult sized glasses.

I ordered the polarizing lenses from Sony's parts website, $14.99 per set. They were supposed to be free but I ran out of patience with their customer service trying to get them to look up a KB article @ Sony which states they are supposed to be free.

The blue pair has the lenses installed, the pink pair doesn't have them in place. I'll check it out later tonight to go back to my M v A torture scene to see if these work as well on the HW30 as the new glasses.

btw, something happens when the shutters are activated, the color shift isn't anywhere near as bad as it looks by the yellowish/green tint you see in the photos with the glasses turned off.





I actully has a pair off the BR50 ( I like them best, light and fits my small head best ) who I tested against the PJ1, BR100, BR250 and Xpand 103
- there are allmost no difference between them ( performence/ ghosting/brightness ) that is both with the 90ES and the 30ES.

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post #734 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Avatar26 View Post

I'm curious, if you turn your head side to side, does the ghosting move across the image in vertical bands?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If I turn my head side to side the amount of ghosting in a particular part of the screen gets better or worse. It is a gradual thing.
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post #735 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy View Post


I'm not entirely sure what you mean. If I turn my head side to side the amount of ghosting in a particular part of the screen gets better or worse. It is a gradual thing.

When I had a demo of the 90ES, I saw definite ghosting. What made it unique was that if I focused my eyes on a particular object and kept them fixed on it while turning my head side to side, the ghosting came and went in waves. Essentially, the ghosting was appearing in vertical "bands". That was using the glasses that came with the 90ES. Hoping you're not seeing the same thing on the 30ES. That would be a deal breaker for me, although one would think this is due to glasses (not projector) and therefore could be an easy fix...
Are you using the new glasses or the old glasses with the snap in polarizing filters?
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post #736 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar26 View Post

When I had a demo of the 90ES, I saw definite ghosting. What made it unique was that if I focused my eyes on a particular object and kept them fixed on it while turning my head side to side, the ghosting came and went in waves. Essentially, the ghosting was appearing in vertical "bands". That was using the glasses that came with the 90ES. Hoping you're not seeing the same thing on the 30ES. That would be a deal breaker for me, although one would think this is due to glasses (not projector) and therefore could be an easy fix...
Are you using the new glasses or the old glasses with the snap in polarizing filters?

The new glasses that came with the projector. It is the same with both sets of glasses. It is definetely worse than my first unit I had. I'm wondering if different parts of the glasses don't all turn on and off as fast, and my emitter is somehow out of sync slightly.
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post #737 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 11:25 AM
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OK, I'm probably beating this to death, but took a couple more pictures (no idea how you guys take such great pictures of your screens that turn out that clear, mine turn out terrible).

First is without 3D glasses on, so you can see where the two images differ:



And then taken through the glasses. For ghosting, you can see the big billboard the two lights in the upper lefthand corner, you can see the guys have some of the light superimposed on top of them. What is hard to tell because the picture is so bad, is the guys are fuzzy from this as well, Jake's arms have ghosting(can kinda see it on his right arm), the tables have slight ghosting, the long sign with the arrow and 5 on it do, plus numerous others. I took this image the BEST I can get the ghosting aiming the camera through the glasses. I could aim it differently and make it even worse.



For the most part, as long as theres anything on the screen well defined, and theres anything remotely dark and light beside each other, I see ghosting. On my other projector this wasn't the case. Not sure if I just happened to get a gem the first time (besides the fan noise), or if this one has worse ghosting than normal.
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post #738 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy View Post

OK, I'm probably beating this to death, but took a couple more pictures (no idea how you guys take such great pictures of your screens that turn out that clear, mine turn out terrible).

First is without 3D glasses on, so you can see where the two images differ:



And then taken through the glasses. For ghosting, you can see the big billboard the two lights in the upper lefthand corner, you can see the guys have some of the light superimposed on top of them. What is hard to tell because the picture is so bad, is the guys are fuzzy from this as well, Jake's arms have ghosting(can kinda see it on his right arm), the tables have slight ghosting, the long sign with the arrow and 5 on it do, plus numerous others. I took this image the BEST I can get the ghosting aiming the camera through the glasses. I could aim it differently and make it even worse.

For the most part, as long as theres anything on the screen well defined, and theres anything remotely dark and light beside each other, I see ghosting. On my other projector this wasn't the case. Not sure if I just happened to get a gem the first time (besides the fan noise), or if this one has worse ghosting than normal.

Is your 3D Depth set to 0?

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post #739 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:00 PM
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Is your 3D Depth set to 0?

It in these shots. But I've tries every depth and it looks the same
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post #740 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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It in these shots. But I've tries every depth and it looks the same

Is your source a HTPC and if so have you/can you try a 3D STB BD player?
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post #741 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:34 PM
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Is your source a HTPC and if so have you/can you try a 3D STB BD player?

It is a htpc. I don't have a standalone player or know anyone with one. I'm the only person I know who is really into movies. So these scenes I'm avatar have no ghosting for you? The scene above is particularly bad for me.
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post #742 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:50 PM
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Does anyone know what the 'Black Level' button on the remote is for? Whenever I hit it, I get a message on screen that says 'Not Applicable', just like when I hit the 3D button. So is that button only enabled for 3D as well? I looked in the manual, and it says what it does, but it doesn't say anything about when it should be enabled. I've only tried it on 2D.
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post #743 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy View Post

It is a htpc. I don't have a standalone player or know anyone with one. I'm the only person I know who is really into movies. So these scenes I'm avatar have no ghosting for you? The scene above is particularly bad for me.

I will queue up this scene for you tonight and take photos to post. I use a Nikon D90 SLR on a tripod with manual exposure and an IR remote for firing the shutter to get clear images.

as a side note, I tested out the kids BR-50 glasses and they work identical to the new models that came with the projector.

also, I might have to rescind my original comments about 'no warmup times'. I was testing the glasses last night watching Monster V Aliens which is just overall torture for ghosting. it was so late, I feel asleep with the glasses on and the screen paused on a tough frame for ghosting. When I woke up 45 minutes later, the ghosting was almost gone entirely.

remember I have an HP screen which is very bright with a low hour lamp so I can see ghosting that generally hides on lower gain screens. I am going to validate my findings this weekend. It wasn't anywhere NEAR as drastic as the warm up necessary for the JVC, but definitely think I saw a difference from cold boot to 45 mins later.
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post #744 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy View Post

It is a htpc. I don't have a standalone player or know anyone with one. I'm the only person I know who is really into movies. So these scenes I'm avatar have no ghosting for you? The scene above is particularly bad for me.

No but i did have a weird anomaly with my HTPC the other night. The 3D through the glasses look a lot like your first pic. I tried rebooting and it would not boot. Immediately ordered an LG BD690 before trouble shooting because I'm not happy with 3D on my HTPC. Moved upstairs (so I could see) and finely managed to get the Repair utility to run so I could System Restore (OS X/Time Machine is 1000x better in this regard). I still have problems with some movies like This is It.

Is it possible during the exchange you inadvertently allowed your HTPC to gain control of some setting like color and/or gamma? Are you a G-Force or Radeon? What is your player?

I see you just PM me so I'll loo at that.
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post #745 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 01:15 PM
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I purchased the Xpand 103 glasses for my new HW30 and they sync but have an annoying intermittent flash every 5 seconds. The time between these flashes seems even so it appears to be some sort of software issue as opposed to just 'losing sync'.

Any advice? Anyone else have this problem or good luck with these glasses?
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post #746 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
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No but i did have a weird anomaly with my HTPC the other night. The 3D through the glasses look a lot like your first pic. I tried rebooting and it would not boot. Immediately ordered an LG BD690 before trouble shooting because I'm not happy with 3D on my HTPC. Moved upstairs (so I could see) and finely managed to get the Repair utility to run so I could System Restore (OS X/Time Machine is 1000x better in this regard). I still have problems with some movies like This is It.

Is it possible during the exchange you inadvertently allowed your HTPC to gain control of some setting like color and/or gamma? Are you a G-Force or Radeon? What is your player?

I see you just PM me so I'll loo at that.

I am not yet an owner of this projector but am very interested in issues regarding the Sony and use of an HTPC. Sofar, I am. Getting lots of good information from this thread regarding what type of file you are running through an HTPC or simply playing back an iso file. So, rather than take it off line totally, I appreciate the info. Does the Sony struggle with HTPC ripped disks? Does it have issue with Cyberpower or TMT just playing back a disk? Is ghosting more excessive for all projectors when processed by an HTPC via N-Vidia, ATI's, etc...

From this thread, it appears many projectors struggle with transcoded 3D Blu Rays. Am I correct. Again, appreciate the dialogue.
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post #747 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post

No but i did have a weird anomaly with my HTPC the other night. The 3D through the glasses look a lot like your first pic. I tried rebooting and it would not boot. Immediately ordered an LG BD690 before trouble shooting because I'm not happy with 3D on my HTPC. Moved upstairs (so I could see) and finely managed to get the Repair utility to run so I could System Restore (OS X/Time Machine is 1000x better in this regard). I still have problems with some movies like This is It.

Is it possible during the exchange you inadvertently allowed your HTPC to gain control of some setting like color and/or gamma? Are you a G-Force or Radeon? What is your player?

I see you just PM me so I'll loo at that.

I use the i5 built in graphics. If I turn my 3d depth down to -1 it generally gets rid of most ghosting, and just the really brig stuff beside a black background like in the screenshot above still appear. So I mint just keep this projector and use that setting. I have too many other things to worry about with my father coming this Wednesday to build the riser, wall and install all the equipment. Plus my carpet estimate ended up being 3000 because of the reuse pattern, so I need to look for cheaper carpet.
I'm using TmT 5 for the player.
I don't even know how I'd set the gamma, etc on the HTPC besideS those settings in the graphics card. I haven't touched those, ill have to see if I messed With something in the TmT settings by accident, and maybe try the power DVD trial.
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post #748 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 03:47 PM
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I am not yet an owner of this projector but am very interested in issues regarding the Sony and use of an HTPC. Sofar, I am. Getting lots of good information from this thread regarding what type of file you are running through an HTPC or simply playing back an iso file. So, rather than take it off line totally, I appreciate the info. Does the Sony struggle with HTPC ripped disks? Does it have issue with Cyberpower or TMT just playing back a disk? Is ghosting more excessive for all projectors when processed by an HTPC via N-Vidia, ATI's, etc...

From this thread, it appears many projectors struggle with transcoded 3D Blu Rays. Am I correct. Again, appreciate the dialogue.

I've had the same HTPC config for about a year. First I started with the Acer 5360 3D DLP, then the JVC RS50 and now the Sony HW30. It's a win 7, 64bit setup with an Nvidia GT430 and TMT5 and PDVD10.

I especially like the Nvidia card because it allows me to use the DVI port to pass HD audio to my older Pioneer SC-07. So I run DVI-> Pioneer and HDMI-> 3D projector. This way I can get 3D frame packed video to the projector and still enjoy HD audio.

I rip all my 3D blurays to ISO on a 12TB NAS and have't had any problems in general. There are some movies that seem to play better in either player. Some of the new Disney movies like Tron and Tangled gave PDVD some fits with skipping but were fine with TMT5. This is likely resolved in an update or PDVD11 which I haven't installed yet. The HTPC IQ easily rivals my dedicated 3D bluray player, Samsung 7900 w/ dual HDMI out.

I sometimes play back SBS MKV's which work fine with either program. I generally avoid them since they look too soft for my preference on my 142" screen.

There is one issue that bugs me and haven't thought of a way around it yet. With the Nvidia card, if I have 3D enabled in the drivers, it will turn the projector to 24FP (frame packed for 3D bluray) even when playing regulard 2D blurays. I have to turn it off and then it's fine. It's a bit of a pain though and their drivers should be able to handle this better.

I have an ATI 67xx sitting in box for almost 8 months and never got around to install it since the Nvidia's been working well.

btw, check this out - another member pointed this out to me:

http://shop.xtreamer.net/products/Xtreamer-Prodigy.html

finally a network media tank with 1.4 support and 3D BD ISO playback + SBS MKV. I like my Popcorn Hour C200 but it's a dinosaur now since it can't handle my growing 3D collection. I am definitely going to pick this up to give it run again my HTPC setup. I want it completely jukebox style (like the C200) and the HTPC is a bit too much for the family to mess with when they want to watch something.
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post #749 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

I actully has a pair off the BR50 ( I like them best, light and fits my small head best ) who I tested against the PJ1, BR100, BR250 and Xpand 103
- there are allmost no difference between them ( performence/ ghosting/brightness ) that is both with the 90ES and the 30ES.

dj

I few of us are having a regular interval blinking issue with the xPand 103's on the HW30. Are yours working well?
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post #750 of 3323 Old 09-02-2011, 04:52 PM
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OH HP fanboy. Hello.

The JVC does full pixel shifts in order to allow a user to improve convergence. Thus one can correct a say minus .6, .7, .8, or .9 error, to a plus .4, .3, .2, or .1 error. No improvement possible with a .5 or less. Of curse you can correct for any error with a 1 or higher above the point. It does full pixel shifts, losing a line of pixels from the top and bottom or left and right depending on the direction of the shift.
The Sony shifts .1 pixel for every click. Of course ten clicks equals one full pixel but you know that. There is no particle on a chip less than 1 pixel. So you really have to pretend. And thus for a line of one pixel width you have to use two, say .3 on one pixel and .7 on another with the space in between each pixel to boot. This means wider lines than normal (less sharp) and less resolution, using 2 pixels to do the job of one. No free lunch with the Sony system. It does guys stop the bitchen about misconvergnce because the misconvergence is now hidden.

Remember guys I am not picking on Zombie. We are friends and continually josh each other.

Mark Haflich
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call me at: 240 876 2536
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