Official Sony VPL-HW30(A)ES Owners Thread - Page 77 - AVS Forum
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post #2281 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Milez28 View Post

I forgot the name of the company Bank of America used but they are no longer on my insurance provider

I'd also get a new mortgage company...they're supposed to send you notice that they haven't gotten any insurance information and that they'll be putting you on their basic plan. If you didn't get a letter or notice, I'd fight BoA on the coverage. I'd then give them the boot too.

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post #2282 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

What's the best way to determine optimal throw distance and screen size for this Pj? I tried one of the online calculators but I'm not sure if I was doing it right because it said at my proposed distance of 18', I'd only get 6 FLs. Is that right?

Anyone? Is 6 FLs at 18' correct?

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post #2283 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Anyone? Is 6 FLs at 18' correct?

What size screen and gain? Are you calculating 2D or 3D Foot Lamberts?

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post #2284 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

What size screen and gain? Are you calculating 2D or 3D Foot Lamberts?

I was using the calculator at PC so I'm guessing they are using 2D, 1.0 gain and was thinking of a 126" 16:9 screen.

I guess the question I'm trying to answer - At a 18' throw distance, what is the best size screen for the Sony HW30 for 80-90% 2D.

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post #2285 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

This weekend we watched Pirates, Kung Fu Panda 2, and How to Train Your Dragon in 3D. I also popped in my Avatar 3D disc in and watched 10 minutes of it.
Thoughts: I played around w/the 3D resolution and going 'positive' or 'negative' didn't make that much of a difference however the 3D brightness did.
Pirates is a very dark movie so keeping the 3D brightness at its max (the default) was nice a bright but made some scenes look like they were shot with an HD Cam: the grain of the original movie was gone (I even put in the 2D disc and watched the same scene to compare) so I lowered the 3D brightness for that movie to make it look more 'film-like'. I ended up doing the same for Kung-Fu Panda 2 since that movie is already bright so turning it down was a way to make it easier on the eyes. HTTYD (one of the best rated 3D movies for it's 3D quality) didn't fail - it looked fantastic in 3D. The only knock on the 3D movies w/the projector so far is when there are fast moving scenes you can see the images "stutter/strobe" which you wouldn't see watching the 2D version. I can live with that from time to time since the 3D is amazing.
Next weekend will be Avatar, Bolt, and maybe Alice in Wonderland and Puss in Boots. I still have many more 3D movies to watch on it than these too. Cheers!

A couple things to watch out for when enabling 3D content:

1. Be sure to select your brightest picture mode (out of the default settings that would be Dynamic). Although the lamp will always be force to High, the picture mode can be any among those available. Pick the brightest 8500k-ish mode.

2. Be sure to have Motion control (FI) enabled - low seems fine. FI works in 3D mode and will smooth the increased judder.

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post #2286 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

A couple things to watch out for when enabling 3D content:

1. Be sure to select your brightest picture mode (out of the default settings that would be Dynamic).

2. Be sure to have Motion control (FI) enabled - low seems fine. FI works in 3D mode and will smooth the increased judder.

Couple of comments...

I'd adjust the gamma to gamma 1 before using Dynamic... But it's your choice. Clearly dynamic will give you more lumens (a bit) while the gamma just brightens things up with the existing lumens... it's all a trade off. Dynamic will not have as accurate colors.

Also, FI is enabled by default for 3D & cannot be disabled. Pressing the button while in 3D mode gives you a message stating it cannot be changed.

Also, try sharpness = 0 / min. My experience has been this setting seems only necessary for SbS / TopBottom (over/under) content and not frame packed, but it wouldn't hurt.

I highly suggest 3D brightness Max-1 for any content other than content that is known to have no ghosting tendencies. For example, the under the sea IMAX worked well with 3d brightness = Max, but generally Max-1 works better.
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post #2287 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

I was using the calculator at PC so I'm guessing they are using 2D, 1.0 gain and was thinking of a 126" 16:9 screen.

I guess the question I'm trying to answer - At a 18' throw distance, what is the best size screen for the Sony HW30 for 80-90% 2D.

If you do not plan for decent brightness in 3D then you will not enjoy it, not use it, and waste that functionality of your projector. The effective light seen in 3D is cut at least 70% of the picture mode brightness.

At 18' throw the smallest (brightest) screen you could go with is 116". However, the FL of a 1.0 gain would be too low for good 3D. ie: 2D: 12.4 fL (9 fL @ 500 hrs), 3D: 6fL (5fL @500 hrs). Bumping the gain to 1.8 would do a much better job in 3D mode.

If you really want a screen in the 126" range at 18' throw, you should rethink the gain you are considering. For a screen of that size, a minimum of 1.8 gain would get by.

If your projector lens isn't mounted too high (ie: above the screen), you may be able to get away with using the DaLite HP 2.4 gain. Projection light reflected from a lens within the screen area will still yield a high FL return value. The more off center the lens height, the lower the FL value. So, while an optimal mount FL value may look very high, this retro-reflective material's net gain will reduce as you move the lens away from screen center. For example, if your lens is at the screen top and your screen bottom is closer to the floor (say 18") this would minimize the lens-to-view-angle and you could easily net 1.8 gain in the seated viewing positions.

This other tool is ok to use as an alternate to PC's calculator.
http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/

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post #2288 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Couple of comments...

I'd adjust the gamma to gamma 1 before using Dynamic... But it's your choice. Clearly dynamic will give you more lumens (a bit) while the gamma just brightens things up with the existing lumens... it's all a trade off. Dynamic will not have as accurate colors.

I'm confused over the comments above. You can and should still calibrate the Dynamic mode (or whatever mode you select to use in 3D viewing) and try to calibrate that with through-the-glasses metering. Also, selection of gamma can be picked for any picture mode, not in place of. If you simply don't care about boosting your black floor then yes, go ahead and select a bright gamma.

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Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Also, FI is enabled by default for 3D & cannot be disabled. Pressing the button while in 3D mode gives you a message stating it cannot be changed.

Incorrect as a general statement. While some 3D options such as FI may not be available or active when viewing certain content types (ie: SbS), FI selection is available for simulated 3D or framepacked (BD) content. As a sanity check I just verified this on my HW30 and was able to enable/disable FI at will using the menu.

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Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Also, try sharpness = 0 / min. My experience has been this setting seems only necessary for SbS / TopBottom (over/under) content and not frame packed, but it wouldn't hurt.

I highly suggest 3D brightness Max-1 for any content other than content that is known to have no ghosting tendencies. For example, the under the sea IMAX worked well with 3d brightness = Max, but generally Max-1 works better.

agree, IMHO.

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post #2289 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 11:53 AM
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Hi,

I just purchased a Sony HW 30. This is my first projector. I am planning on ceiling mounting, approximately 13 feet from my screen.

Please recommend a mount.

Also, once I get the projector mounted, I will project onto the wall where the screen will be installed, and try to determine the best screen size for my room. I assume this is the right way to determine optimal screen size, which I expect will be between 92 and 100 inches.

Thank you.

Brian
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post #2290 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

If you do not plan for decent brightness in 3D then you will not enjoy it, not use it, and waste that functionality of your projector. The effective light seen in 3D is cut at least 70% of the picture mode brightness.

At 18' throw the smallest (brightest) screen you could go with is 116". However, the FL of a 1.0 gain would be too low for good 3D. ie: 2D: 12.4 fL (9 fL @ 500 hrs), 3D: 6fL (5fL @500 hrs). Bumping the gain to 1.8 would do a much better job in 3D mode.

If you really want a screen in the 126" range at 18' throw, you should rethink the gain you are considering. For a screen of that size, a minimum of 1.8 gain would get by.

If your projector lens isn't mounted too high (ie: above the screen), you may be able to get away with using the DaLite HP 2.4 gain. Projection light reflected from a lens within the screen area will still yield a high FL return value. The more off center the lens height, the lower the FL value. So, while an optimal mount FL value may look very high, this retro-reflective material's net gain will reduce as you move the lens away from screen center. For example, if your lens is at the screen top and your screen bottom is closer to the floor (say 18") this would minimize the lens-to-view-angle and you could easily net 1.8 gain in the seated viewing positions.

This other tool is ok to use as an alternate to PC's calculator.
http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/

I've been considering an AT screen and am leaning towards the Seymour Center Stage XD which has a gain of 1.2. Also, if I need to move the PJ closer, it will definitely need to be closer to the ceiling so as not to block the view from the back row. Seems like that may play a part as well.

Using the link you provided, a 1.2 gain 126" screen at 16'3" will be 14.6/11 in LOW and 21.5/16 in HIGH, but only 7/5 in 3D. Seems like enough for 2D, but 3D might suffer. What is the recommended FL for 3D?

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post #2291 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlivingstone View Post

Hi,

I just purchased a Sony HW 30. This is my first projector. I am planning on ceiling mounting, approximately 13 feet from my screen.

Please recommend a mount.

Also, once I get the projector mounted, I will project onto the wall where the screen will be installed, and try to determine the best screen size for my room. I assume this is the right way to determine optimal screen size, which I expect will be between 92 and 100 inches.

Thank you.

Brian

http://www.projectorpeople.com/acces...p?itemid=19908. I use with my Sony VW90ES. It will work with quite a few pjs

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post #2292 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

I'm confused over the comments above. You can and should still calibrate the Dynamic mode (or whatever mode you select to use in 3D viewing) and try to calibrate that with through-the-glasses metering. Also, selection of gamma can be picked for any picture mode, not in place of. If you simply don't care about boosting your black floor then yes, go ahead and select a bright gamma.

Regarding dynamic, it was my understanding that "Dynamic" is inherently brighter because it is inherently not calibrated well. As we all know, a projector typically loses lumens when calibrated correct.

Do you believe the HW30's calibrated dynamic mode is brighter than a calibrated, say, Cinema 1 mode? I haven't personally tested it.

The above ties into my gamma comment and, hopefully, clarifies it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

Incorrect as a general statement. While some 3D options such as FI may not be available or active when viewing certain content types (ie: SbS), FI selection is available for simulated 3D or framepacked (BD) content. As a sanity check I just verified this on my HW30 and was able to enable/disable FI at will using the menu.

I'm glad you wrote the above. It caused me to double check and I agree my statement above wasn't correct. The situation seems to more complex than I expected.

"Motion enhancer" (aka FI) for 3D content is available only for 1080P/24 sources but not all variations. Within the realm of 1080P/24 3D sources, you get FI for

1) frame packed
2) Side by side
3) Simulated

But NOT over-under.

(per the manual at least --- or my reading of the manual)
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post #2293 of 3317 Old 03-10-2012, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

I'd also get a new mortgage company...they're supposed to send you notice that they haven't gotten any insurance information and that they'll be putting you on their basic plan. If you didn't get a letter or notice, I'd fight BoA on the coverage. I'd then give them the boot too.

I am sorry for. The original theft. That is a traumatic and truly unnerving thing to go through.

Where I am lost though is that if I understand correctly, the insurance company is not paying because the original poster failed to set up a policy or let his/her policy lapse. The mortgage company then, per contract went out and insured the home with a basic policy that really pretty much didn't cover the theft. How is this the mortgage companies fault? They protected the property and did not source the perfect plan for the homeowner. That is the homeowners absolute responsibility to review.

I really am sad for everyone here but for others, it is a good lesson to get the proper insurance. Renters are the worst, the statistics for renters insurance are just dangerous and sad. If your Sony projector and over amped system cause an electrical fire and you burn down your complex, guess who is liable? Landlord perhaps..... You definitely. Also if you post where you live and all your great stuff, I'd look again at your policy.

I do not sell home owners insurance or mortgages. I do have good insurance although my deductible (my choice) is $1K.
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post #2294 of 3317 Old 03-11-2012, 09:21 AM
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I'm comntemplating getting an ND filter for the HW30. I'm happy with everything else about this projector, but the black level still looks a little 'high' to me. I have no problem using auto or manual iris and know how to tweak the iris reg open/close in the service menu.

I have a HP 106" dalite with a 14' throw.

My thoughts are to use an ND filter with lamp on high and possibly using iris on manual to adjust final light output.

Concerning black level capability, would this be the same as just using the iris closed down almost all the way and having the light output equal to an ND filter with the iris opened up? I'm thinking I can get about the same output at 100 IRE either way with a combination of manual iris settings and having/not having a ND filter, but will the black level floor be any different?

It seems like the light out put is proportional to the black level, so I might just be "chasing my tail" at that point, but my reasoning is that the static black level doesn't change perceptually as drastic as the total white output when slowly leveling up the manual iris from min to very high. The ND filter would hopefully "half" the black floor, and I would have plenty of brightness to regain the loss. But in regaining that 'loss', am I just bringing the black floor right back up to where it would have been without the filter?

Hope my rambling makes a little sense.
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post #2295 of 3317 Old 03-11-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

I've been considering an AT screen and am leaning towards the Seymour Center Stage XD which has a gain of 1.2. Also, if I need to move the PJ closer, it will definitely need to be closer to the ceiling so as not to block the view from the back row. Seems like that may play a part as well.

Using the link you provided, a 1.2 gain 126" screen at 16'3" will be 14.6/11 in LOW and 21.5/16 in HIGH, but only 7/5 in 3D. Seems like enough for 2D, but 3D might suffer. What is the recommended FL for 3D?

IMO, a new lamp - 12FL for 3D is a good target. Below 10FL ventures into the "sub par" experience. Recently I had a Epson 5010 here and that produced a very pleasing 15FL in 3D.

Unfortunately with bigger screens the HW30 is a bit limited in 3D output. As you probably found, moving your projector mount even closer will not produce sufficient 3D brightness. Starting with only 7FL (new lamp) is not a good place to be. My 1.8 gain (min) recommendation for your screen size still stands as far as achieving decent 3D. Then, your choices among AT screens will be somewhat limited too.

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post #2296 of 3317 Old 03-11-2012, 01:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

I've been considering an AT screen and am leaning towards the Seymour Center Stage XD which has a gain of 1.2. Also, if I need to move the PJ closer, it will definitely need to be closer to the ceiling so as not to block the view from the back row. Seems like that may play a part as well.

Using the link you provided, a 1.2 gain 126" screen at 16'3" will be 14.6/11 in LOW and 21.5/16 in HIGH, but only 7/5 in 3D. Seems like enough for 2D, but 3D might suffer. What is the recommended FL for 3D?

There is really no recommended ft lamberts for 3D. The present commercial theater standard is based on what is achievable in your average 3D commercoal theater and off the top of my head is about 2-4 ft lamberts.
The THX standard is based on a 100 inch 1.78 aspect 1.0 gain screen and is based on your average about 1300 lumens home theater 3D projector. hat said those who have seen really bright 3D presentations love it and it is so much better it isn't funny. Ideally we should have thru the glasses brightnes the same as we have now for 2D, say something like 12-14 ft lamberts. For most to approach this one would need a high gain screen and most high gainscreens require long throws to avoid hot spotting. Bryan's recommended 1.8 gain scren would dictate a throw ratio of 1.8 or so. A good solution is the HP2.4 screen which doesn't hot spot but requires near eye level placement to obtain the rated gain. If you would like to discuss screens in detail related to your set up, give AV Science a call.
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post #2297 of 3317 Old 03-11-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

Yes, the two parameters are Iris Open Reg and Iris Close Reg.

I don't have a service manual...

Iris Open Reg sets a max opening value for the iris, and Iris Close Reg the maximum close value. The projector uses an algorithm to set the iris value somewhere in that range depending on the scene.

Different HW30's come set with slightly different initial values. The values are set at the factory based upon Iris Open Hal / Iris Close Hal readings with a certain input (that I forget - it's in the service manual for different models). My first model had different settings than my second one, and other users have reported slightly different settings as well.

The readings are in cd/m^2, but they're only meant to provide a reference against readings at the other settings to give users an idea of what effect a change in settings will have, so don't put any weight on them beyond that.

Hi Dave,

I was wondering with your understanding of hacking the iris range if you have noticed it effecting the iris range when DI is off or in manual mode?

For example, when you tuned down the iris max open, does that also effect the DI off (iris open) or the max manual iris open?

You also mentioned the value setting is per "certain input". I am curious about using this function to knock down the brightness (and floor) of my 2D viewing with DI and low lamp. Then 3D always has DI=Off which AFAIK results in a max open iris. Correct? I'd like to set a global DI range which would automatically be used by all 2D content, and not have that effect DI off/manual iris usage.

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post #2298 of 3317 Old 03-11-2012, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

There is really no recommended ft lamberts for 3D. The present commercial theater standard is based on what is achievable in your average 3D commercoal theater and off the top of my head is about 2-4 ft lamberts.
The THX standard is based on a 100 inch 1.78 aspect 1.0 gain screen and is based on your average about 1300 lumens home theater 3D projector. hat said those who have seen really bright 3D presentations love it and it is so much better it isn't funny. Ideally we should have thru the glasses brightnes the same as we have now for 2D, say something like 12-14 ft lamberts. For most to approach this one would need a high gain screen and most high gainscreens require long throws to avoid hot spotting. Bryan's recommended 1.8 gain scren would dictate a throw ratio of 1.8 or so. A good solution is the HP2.4 screen which doesn't hot spot but requires near eye level placement to obtain the rated gain. If you would like to discuss screens in detail related to your set up, give AV Science a call.

Thanks Mark. I think we're on the same page, though perhaps the 1.8 gain would need at least a 1.6 throw ratio (not 1.8). As this would be at the mimimum throw distance of 12'10", perhaps not the ideal location, but technically within spec.

Regardless, most people feel commercial theater 2-4 FL is way too dark, but that is the best they can feasibly do. As you mention, 12-14FL is a much better target to aim for and something realistically acheivable in our home theaters.

Your last point it good too... give AV Science a call!

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post #2299 of 3317 Old 03-11-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

Thanks Mark. I think we're on the same page, though perhaps the 1.8 gain would need at least a 1.6 throw ratio (not 1.8). As this would be at the mimimum throw distance of 12'10", perhaps not the ideal location, but technically within spec.

Regardless, most people feel commercial theater 2-4 FL is way too dark, but that is the best they can feasibly do. As you mention, 12-14FL is a much better target to aim for and something realistically acheivable in our home theaters.

Your last point it good too... give AV Science a call!

Is the throw ratio a factor of the width or diagonal? And how much does the distance from the ceiling make a difference? My first row is at 11', but my 2nd row is at 16'. If I mounted the PJ at 12'10" it would probably interfere with that 2nd row, which in my last theater was our primary viewing row.

I believe I've read in this thread that the HW30 is relatively quiet, so I could get away with it above the 2nd row, which means a mounting location of about 15'10" give or take a couple inches. At that distance with the SemourAV 1.2 gain screen, it looks like I'd get away with 15/22/7 FLs.

Perhaps I should be looking at other PJs as well as higher gain screens.

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Normally one calculates the throw distance (TD) by multiplying the screen width (SW) by the throw ratio (TR).When a screen manufacturer recommends a minimum throw ratiio to avoid hotspotting it is calculated by dividing the throw distance by the screen width. (TR=TD/SW).

Best to give us a call to discuss all this.
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post #2301 of 3317 Old 03-12-2012, 03:17 PM
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As I wrote in my "HW30 impressions" web site, the HW30's remote gives me pause. I don't understand why they included some keys and not others.

Specifically, there is no single key to turn off all 3D functions like SbS/OverUnder or simulated.

I dug around the net and found some other Sony projectors do have discrete codes for this functionality. I'm happy to report they work for the HW30 also! Below are the pronto IR codes for "2D/3D Auto" (my standard mode) as well as "3D Side by Side" and "3D Top Bottom".

1) 2D/3D Auto
0000 0067 0000 0015 0060 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 021D

2) 3D Side by Side
0000 0067 0000 0015 0060 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 020B

3) SD Over/Under (aka Top/Bottom)
0000 0067 0000 0015 0060 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 020B

The sad news is my Harmony remote offers no native way to input multiple pronto codes (and I hear they started charging $$$ to have their support add them).

The good news is I found a post here offers a windows tool and a procedure to add arbitrary pronto codes to a harmony remote!

(Note: the first time I used this tool it somehow deleted all my previously learned custom codes. That was annoying. But after I relearned my custom codes, I was able to use the tool with no problem)

In short, my Harmony 880 now has discrete 3D buttons. It's useful for when I accidentally leave 3D side-by-side enabled and don't want to press several buttons to fix it.
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post #2302 of 3317 Old 03-12-2012, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

The effective light seen in 3D is cut at least 70% of the picture mode brightness.

I find it hard to imagine that 70% of the light is cut out by the 3D glasses. Is 70% "real world" and what others are seeing? Are there any actual measurements through the glasses?

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post #2303 of 3317 Old 03-12-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

I find it hard to imagine that 70% of the light is cut out by the 3D glasses. Is 70% "real world" and what others are seeing? Are there any actual measurements through the glasses?

Well... It's at least 50% because the light gets divided up between each eye. Then there is some "slop" because the glasses and the projector need some breathing room to toggle between the two images.

But whether it's 60% or 70% or xx%, it's in that area. I suspect there is no single answer as the hw30 has different 3d brightness settings which like move you closer to 50% but increase ghosting

But no, I have not read an official measurement myself. I think it's a good question...
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post #2304 of 3317 Old 03-12-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

I find it hard to imagine that 70% of the light is cut out by the 3D glasses. Is 70% "real world" and what others are seeing? Are there any actual measurements through the glasses?

If you don't mind reading sketchy translated pages, see: http://66.163.168.225/babelfish/tran..._Sony_HW30.htm for a decent rundown on the projector, including discussion of 3D light loss.

Next time I get the lux meter or calibration tools out I'll try to remember to measure with the glasses turned on and in 3D mode.

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post #2305 of 3317 Old 03-12-2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolplazma View Post

If you don't mind reading sketchy translated pages, see: http://66.163.168.225/babelfish/tran..._Sony_HW30.htm for a decent rundown on the projector, including discussion of 3D light loss.

Next time I get the lux meter or calibration tools out I'll try to remember to measure with the glasses turned on and in 3D mode.

Thank you for the link. If you use Chrome browser it will do a better translation.
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek..._Sony_HW30.htm
I see now why you and others say 70% (the article says 75%) but I'd still be curious to see real world measurements.

As far as lamp modes, can 3D use HIGH mode, or is it locked into Dynamic? Are there other benefits to dynamic besides lamp life?

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post #2306 of 3317 Old 03-12-2012, 09:44 PM
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Perceivably the drop by eye is about 1/4 to half, technically the drops are 50% to 80% depending on the projector, screen, glasses, setup, and all the other mumbo jumbo involved.

I have long debated over what fL to consider 3D to be optimal at, my personal opinion is 8 fL to 10 fL is bright enough to maintain most of the POP in bright scenes, but if you can get 3D to 10+ fL to 14 fL, the more the merrier and it does add that last bit of POP to the image, plus you will lose some brightness as the lamp ages.

It is all very subjective, but even 6 fL does not look terrible in 3D for some stuff, depends what it is. Luckily most 3D stuff is relatively well filmed from a contrast standpoint because you are mostly watching high budget productions, also I think they purposefully master the gamma differently to give the perception of a brighter image. A lack of brightness becomes a much bigger issue if watching certain types of filming that tend to wash the picture out, then it gets tough to watch. Right now my calculator says 10 fL is the 3D target, but really 3D still looks pretty good at 6 fL to 8 fL, under 6 fL and it really starts to push it, but depends how picky you are.


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post #2307 of 3317 Old 03-13-2012, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Right now my calculator says 10 fL is the 3D target, but really 3D still looks pretty good at 6 fL to 8 fL, under 6 fL and it really starts to push it, but depends how picky you are.

That's what I was afraid of - using your calc, I'm getting 5 fL (after 500hrs) for my gain/size screen paired with the Sony. My limiting factor is that in order to get the size I want, I need to go with an AT screen and that limits the gain to 1.1 or lower. I suppose I could mount the PJ a bit closer, but am not sure how low (or rather how high) I can mount it and not have it interfere with the row of seats behind it.

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post #2308 of 3317 Old 03-13-2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

As I wrote in my "HW30 impressions" web site, the HW30's remote gives me pause. I don't understand why they included some keys and not others.

Specifically, there is no single key to turn off all 3D functions like SbS/OverUnder or simulated.

I dug around the net and found some other Sony projectors do have discrete codes for this functionality. I'm happy to report they work for the HW30 also! Below are the pronto IR codes for "2D/3D Auto" (my standard mode) as well as "3D Side by Side" and "3D Top Bottom".

1) 2D/3D Auto
0000 0067 0000 0015 0060 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 021D

2) 3D Side by Side
0000 0067 0000 0015 0060 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 020B

3) SD Over/Under (aka Top/Bottom)
0000 0067 0000 0015 0060 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 0018 0030 0018 0018 0018 0018 020B

The sad news is my Harmony remote offers no native way to input multiple pronto codes (and I hear they started charging $$$ to have their support add them).

The good news is I found a post here offers a windows tool and a procedure to add arbitrary pronto codes to a harmony remote!

(Note: the first time I used this tool it somehow deleted all my previously learned custom codes. That was annoying. But after I relearned my custom codes, I was able to use the tool with no problem)

In short, my Harmony 880 now has discrete 3D buttons. It's useful for when I accidentally leave 3D side-by-side enabled and don't want to press several buttons to fix it.

Awesome. Any idea what projector these discrete 3D codes came from? I'm wondering if the same method I used to get the Discrete input codes from the VW-60 could be used (Program the projector to another Harmony remote and then use it to learn commands to the remote that drives the HW30).

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post #2309 of 3317 Old 03-13-2012, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

That's what I was afraid of - using your calc, I'm getting 5 fL (after 500hrs) for my gain/size screen paired with the Sony. My limiting factor is that in order to get the size I want, I need to go with an AT screen and that limits the gain to 1.1 or lower. I suppose I could mount the PJ a bit closer, but am not sure how low (or rather how high) I can mount it and not have it interfere with the row of seats behind it.

I've watched plenty of "darker" 3D and was less than pleased with projectors & lamps that calculate to under 8FL. You need to be sure of achieving sufficient brightness with an average aged/dimmed lamp, not just the new lamp. Under 10FL for a new setup is less than optimal, 12FL is a good target when considering lamp dimming. What's the point of having a HT if you can't see the picture without straining in dark scenes?

If you can tollerate a somewhat louder projector and LCD 2D picture, go try the Epson 5010 toward the back of your room and be done with it. That projector is a better match for your needs.

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post #2310 of 3317 Old 03-13-2012, 08:31 AM
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The Sony is ~900 lumens in 3D mode, the 5010 was ~ 1400 with a D65 calibration through the glasses, even brighter with the torch mode. it might be more fitting for this low gain AT screen.
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