Official Sony VPL-HW30(A)ES Owners Thread - Page 84 - AVS Forum
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post #2491 of 3270 Old 05-03-2012, 10:25 AM
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There was a little misalignment on my pixels and I used the convergence feature. Red adjusted by 4/+4 and blue adjust by 5/+5. The convergence pattern looked better.

Then I checked the 1-pixel image from this thread http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...threadid=90884

And look what it did to the color of this black and white image:

Panel alignment OFF:



Panel alignment ON:



The black and white image (which should look gray from far) is now purple.

I guess it's not a good idea to use it if you want a 1-1 pixel mapping.
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post #2492 of 3270 Old 05-03-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post


Why is that?

I am guessing that a fairly significant raise in the wholesale price is coming down the pipe line and an approved vendor has just nicely suggested that potential purchasers consider buying now. I would also trust the hint as these guys are reputable.
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post #2493 of 3270 Old 05-03-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

I am guessing that a fairly significant raise in the wholesale price is coming down the pipe line and an approved vendor has just nicely suggested that potential purchasers consider buying now. I would also trust the hint as these guys are reputable.

Sony needs to make up for losses elsewhere. Until there's real competition, they can charge whatever they want. By the time Red gets their $10K laser projector to market, an entire product life cycle will have run its course, and Sony can then introduce the 'Ruby' version of the 1000 @ $10K.
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post #2494 of 3270 Old 05-03-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Sony needs to make up for losses elsewhere. Until there's real competition, they can charge whatever they want. By the time Red gets their $10K laser projector to market, an entire product life cycle will have run its course, and Sony can then introduce the 'Ruby' version of the 1000 @ $10K.

and i will be first in line to buy it
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post #2495 of 3270 Old 05-06-2012, 07:25 PM
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Where is the best price on additional Sony glasses for this projector? I saw one site selling them for $95 each but they are out of stock. (Or are there any other manufacturers who sell a similar product?)
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post #2496 of 3270 Old 05-06-2012, 10:39 PM
 
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Sony is not raising pricing. They are bringing all their ES projectors (30, 95 and 1000) under their sure pricing policy effective June 1st which basically requires all dealers to sell these models at MSRP or potentially lose the Sony line if they violate that policy. This is a unilateral pricing policy which has been upheld in the courts. Dealers have no discretion in the matter. Sony shops it dealers and if if one of their paid shoppers makes a purchase of one of these products below MSRP, it is potentially good bye to the dealer. So this is the month to buy if getting a discount is important to you.
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post #2497 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Sony is not raising pricing. They are bringing all their ES projectors (30, 95 and 1000)under their sure pricing policy effective June 1st which basically requires all dealers to sell these models at MSRP or potentially lose the Sony line if they violate that policy. This is a unilateral pricing policy which has been upheld in the courts. Dealers have no discretion in the matter. Sony shops it dealers and if if one of their paid shoppers makes a purchase of one of these products below MSRP, it is potentially good bye to the dealer. So this is the month to buy if getting a discount is important to you.

How can I contact you without calling as international
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post #2498 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Sony is not raising pricing. They are bringing all their ES projectors (30, 95 and 1000)under their sure pricing policy effective June 1st which basically requires all dealers to sell these models at MSRP or potentially lose the Sony line if they violate that policy. This is a unilateral pricing policy which has been upheld in the courts. Dealers have no discretion in the matter. Sony shops it dealers and if if one of their paid shoppers makes a purchase of one of these products below MSRP, it is potentially good bye to the dealer. So this is the month to buy if getting a discount is important to you.

So I guess the "S" in MSRP is getting thrown out the window? I guess as consumers we'll have to vote with our wallets. I'd love to be able to buy one this month, but I'm 6-8 months out before I can use it and would rather not have it sitting and collecting dust. If the price is MSRP when it comes time to buy - perhaps I'll get the Epson instead.

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post #2499 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black View Post

Where is the best price on additional Sony glasses for this projector? I saw one site selling them for $95 each but they are out of stock. (Or are there any other manufacturers who sell a similar product?)

The best price I found was a seller at Amazon for $100 a pair (and the seller was AVScience if I'm correct!). I bought 2 so now I have 4.

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post #2500 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 08:30 AM
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Local B&M vendors are probably crying to Sony that some dealers are selling the unit below the MSRP. Tough. I can't see how they can force retailers to hold the prices. In my book that's called price fixing.

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post #2501 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

...I can't see how they can force retailers to hold the prices. In my book that's called price fixing.

Price fixing is when there is collusion (usually from different manufactures) to fix a price. Sony CAN'T force retailers to sell a certain price directly but it's Sony's right to choose who can be a retailer based on their required criteria.
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post #2502 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 09:18 AM
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it seems like an odd move considering how much competition is out there in the FP marketplace - especially this year in particular.

I've been using my low hour HW30 more than ever recently, even though I have a number of other projectors. It's one of my favorite all around projectors and the cost to operate is minimal with the inexpensive lamps.
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post #2503 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it seems like an odd move considering how much competition is out there in the FP marketplace - especially this year in particular.....

I think Sony wants to rewind the clock to 1989 when they were THE Apple.
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post #2504 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 01:19 PM
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I like my hw30 but there is no chance I would have made this choice a MSRP. Probably would have held off another year...
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post #2505 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Sony is not raising pricing. They are bringing all their ES projectors (30, 95 and 1000)under their sure pricing policy effective June 1st which basically requires all dealers to sell these models at MSRP or potentially lose the Sony line if they violate that policy. This is a unilateral pricing policy which has been upheld in the courts. Dealers have no discretion in the matter. Sony shops it dealers and if if one of their paid shoppers makes a purchase of one of these products below MSRP, it is potentially good bye to the dealer. So this is the month to buy if getting a discount is important to you.

Does this also apply to replacement bulbs? Or can they be sold less than the MSRP?
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post #2506 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it seems like an odd move considering how much competition is out there in the FP marketplace - especially this year in particular.

I've been using my low hour HW30 more than ever recently, even though I have a number of other projectors. It's one of my favorite all around projectors and the cost to operate is minimal with the inexpensive lamps.

Exactly! It's like telling potential customers we don't want your business. I have seen the local BB Magnolia selling this unit for under the $3999 MSRP. Not as good of a deal as I got from AVS but it was a typical big box retailer discount.

Is Sony going to reduce the MSRP at the same time? If not then I see this as a major FAIL for Sony considering all the other competition out there. Sony better come to the realization that they are not Apple.

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post #2507 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 04:51 PM
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Sony has the right to do as they wish...............though I believe this policy will be short lived.

Consumers have the right to send messages via their pocket book...........I know I will participate in a "grassroots" campaign looking for alternatives to the Sony ES 1000.

Let true "capitalism" reign!!
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post #2508 of 3270 Old 05-07-2012, 08:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by matthewa View Post

How can I contact you without calling as international

There is an email address not hiding in my signature block.
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post #2509 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan_chow View Post

There was a little misalignment on my pixels and I used the convergence feature. Red adjusted by 4/+4 and blue adjust by 5/+5. The convergence pattern looked better.

Then I checked the 1-pixel image from this thread http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...threadid=90884

And look what it did to the color of this black and white image:

I've found the sharpness control also interacts with the "purple effect" when the alignment is engaged.

As has been mentioned before, using shift amounts in round 10s seems to help.

I've managed to get mine looking sharp, having clear text and no purple by only moving the red vertically by -10 (fixes the red on text) leaving the blue alone (even though it is a little off, blue tends to be less noticeable and it looks worse using a 10 multiple versus 0) and then reducing the sharpness from 10 to 5 (0 makes the image a little too soft to me).

This even seems to give a pretty sharp image from power on versus a very soft image for 30 mins when using "full alignment" (i.e. no visible bleed on the white grid).

I'm using the AVCHD test disc patterns to check for purple effects - the 1 pixel images and the "test card" with boxes at the corners and single pixel text etc.

I'm much happier with the image produced with these settings.

Regarding the Iris, mine was set with open reg of 665 and moving it up to 680 as someone said their's was has produced a much brighter feeling picture (low lamp with 0.95 gain AT screen, so everything counts, high lamp is too loud), I also lowered the close reg to 325 (or around there) from the default 336 which has improved the blacks, even with this wider gap, with the sensitivity on slow there is a very tiny brightness change when I go back to the file list (white text) after a black screen (end of credits) and it's not at all visible during playback.

YMMV of course but it would be interesting to hear folks results for both of these things.
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post #2510 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 07:59 AM
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Hey guys. Trying to get opinions on three different Sony Projectors. The three projectors are the Sony VPL-VW90ES, VPL-VW95ES and VPL-HW30AES. If I'm correct, I think the 30AES is the newest Sony Projector of the three. Firstly, which one of the three has better overall 2D picture quality including motion? Which one has the best overall 3D Picture, such as brightness, crosstalk and ghosting? This is the first time I've ever really considered a projector. I would be coming from a Samsung UN65D8000. Got tired of the uneven screen uniformity as well as not so immersive 3D being on a smaller scale than a projector. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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post #2511 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

Hey guys. Trying to get opinions on three different Sony Projectors. The three projectors are the Sony VPL-VW90ES, VPL-VW95ES and VPL-HW30AES. If I'm correct, I think the 30AES is the newest Sony Projector of the three. Firstly, which one of the three has better overall 2D picture quality including motion? Which one has the best overall 3D Picture, such as brightness, crosstalk and ghosting? This is the first time I've ever really considered a projector. I would be coming from a Samsung UN65D8000. Got tired of the uneven screen uniformity as well as not so immersive 3D being on a smaller scale than a projector. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

The vw90 came out fall of 2010, the hw30 came out summer 2011, and the vw95 came out most recently, fall of 2011.

The VW90 and VW95 have the same basic 2D quality, black level, motion,
sharpness. Also, the VW95 has lens memory if that is important to you. The HW30 has the same basic features as the VW95, but lacks the lens memory (or powered lens zoom/focus/shift for that matter) and doesn't have the deep blacks of the VW90 or VW95.



But 3D on the VW90 is apparently much worse than the VW95. VW90 is dimmer in 3D with more crosstalk.

So, for 2D it goes VW95>VW90>HW30
and for 3D, VW95>HW30>VW90

I have the HW30, and i'm pretty satisfied, but i have the craving for better blacks. I have a Dalite HP screen and am overall, pretty happy. But i do want the increase in contrast.
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post #2512 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 11:34 AM
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I've been wanting to upgrade my current projector for awhile now. I have Pioneer Kuro FPJ-1 (JVC IDLA RS2). Besides being little dim with no 3D capability, I still love this projector. Pixels are aligned dead-on perfect, great uniformity, etc.

Having that said, I do want 3D capable projector. 2D is still my main focus, but I would like get a descent 3D performance with minimal cross-talk. I also considered Panasonic PT AE7000U, but too many owners are having trouble with flickering issue. And, contacting Panasonic didn't help much either. HW30ES doesn't seem to have this problem, but it does seem to have focus and pixel misalignment problem. Should I be concerned about it? It seems as though all HW30ES have this focus issue (if right side is in focus then left side is not, vice-versa). Will lens shift make these problems worse? My projector will be hung at about 7' off the ground and the top of the screen is at about 7.5'. Its horizontal alignment will be dead-center though. I want a projector that's bit brighter with 3D, but at the same time I don't want to deal with all the headaches.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2513 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dtchung View Post

HW30ES doesn't seem to have this problem, but it does seem to have focus and pixel misalignment problem. Should I be concerned about it? It seems as though all HW30ES have this focus issue (if right side is in focus then left side is not, vice-versa). Will lens shift make these problems worse?

My HW30 has very good focus and no obvious convergence issues. There is going to be sample variance with every projector manufacturer - you should have seen my first RS40 and RS55, both were awful with convergence and focus - by luck, the replacements were excellent.

What size screen are you using? does it have any gain?

I have several projectors, but my HW30 is my 'every day' projector for 2D and 3D since it looks good and the lamps are the most affordable.
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post #2514 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

My HW30 has very good focus and no obvious convergence issues. There is going to be sample variance with every projector manufacturer

What size screen are you using? does it have any gain?

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I understand that there are sample variances. However, I'm trying to gauge if some of these issues are wide-spread. As for Panasonic PT-AE7000U, that flickering issue is wide spread, far above normal. I'm just wondering if there are any gotchas with the Hw30ES. It's seems to be the most capable projector that does everything well. HW30 really wasn't on my radar until I read about all the problems with the Panasonic. I always liked Lcos technology, so there is a plus for Sony. How's Sony's customer support though?

As for my setup, I have 115" screen with 1.0 (no gain). Screen is nothing to write home about. The projector is mounted about 17' away from the screen. I wish it was closer to the screen, but this is the best I can do.

I got lucky with my current projector. Convergence and focus is dead-on perfect. It makes it that much harder to take a chance and upgrade.
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post #2515 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 02:05 PM
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For the price and just for 3D, you could buy the Optoma hd33 and still keep your perfectly converged Panny (and I'm guessing) for not that much more money than getting rid of the Panny and upgrading to the Sony. The hd33 has brilliant 3D much like the Benq w7000 (although the hd33 black's aren't as good and it's not as sharp, but probably slightly sharper than the Sony).

I would also be hesitant to go from a perfectly converged projector to one that I know will not likely be perfectly converged. I am lucky in that my JVC RS-45 has near perfect convergence (just blue off a tiny bit, which doesn't matter). An LCD with perfect convergence would be a VERY nice unit to have as well, you found the gold coin with the guy's mustache upside down

If I had to do it over, I may just have bought the Sony (we'll see when I call JVC to gripe). I knew the JVC lamp was going to be an issue, but what I didn't know was how much it would affect the color of the picture in such a short amount of time. I am tired of re-calibrating the JVC, it gets old and you run out of room.

The Sony has excellent calibration controls and super accurate nice color OOTB.


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post #2516 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtchung View Post

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I understand that there are sample variances. However, I'm trying to gauge if some of these issues are wide-spread. As for Panasonic PT-AE7000U, that flickering issue is wide spread, far above normal. I'm just wondering if there are any gotchas with the Hw30ES. It's seems to be the most capable projector that does everything well. HW30 really wasn't on my radar until I read about all the problems with the Panasonic. I always liked Lcos technology, so there is a plus for Sony. How's Sony's customer support though?

As for my setup, I have 115" screen with 1.0 (no gain). Screen is nothing to write home about. The projector is mounted about 17' away from the screen. I wish it was closer to the screen, but this is the best I can do.

I got lucky with my current projector. Convergence and focus is dead-on perfect. It makes it that much harder to take a chance and upgrade.

The HW30's been out since last summer and have only seen a handful of complaints here and on the french AV forums (where the Sony's are wildly popular). There's always going to be a few lemons, but the Panasonic W7000 issues seem substantial enough to stay away from.

That screen is a nice size with no gain, so the 3D could be underwhelming depending on your expectations. The Epson 5010 could light that screen up the best of the current models and the blacks are quite good for an LCD projector.

I understand not wanting to give up a quality copy. Can you run a 2nd projector? if you just want to add 3D, you can go cheap with something like the Optoma 750GT which is only 720P but will look fine in 3D mode (there is something about the 720P 3D DLP's that look higher res than they are in 3D mode) or something more expensive with lens shift, 1080P like the BenQ W7000.
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post #2517 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The HW30's been out since last summer and have only seen a handful of complaints here and on the french AV forums (where the Sony's are wildly popular). There's always going to be a few lemons, but the Panasonic W7000 issues seem substantial enough to stay away from.

That screen is a nice size with no gain, so the 3D could be underwhelming depending on your expectations.
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I understand not wanting to give up a quality copy. Can you run a 2nd projector?

One of the reason why I got interested in Sony is because of your mini-shootout. Excellent review, BTW. Yes, defective unit here and there is normal and inevitable, but like you said with the Panasonic, number of flickering issues are overwhelming. It seems like HW30ES is on the par with normal number of lemons.

I'm not expecting perfect, but there some quirks that I can't live with; flickering and bad convergence. Soft focus on edges are not that big of a deal, unless it's obviously noticeable.

Here are the qualities in the projector that I'm looking for:

Overall:
No flickering
Good convergence
Color uniformity
Quiet operation (fan noise)

2D:
Film-like look (soft image is OK)
Brighter image (Pioneer FPJ-1 has 600 lumens, I'm sure any projector in the market today can beat this)

3D:
Minimal ghosting (can't stand double images)
Darker image in 3D is OK.
Not really expecting too much from the 3D; this is secondary.

Panasonic had these qualities that I was looking for, but because of that flickering issue; it ruled itself out. The HW30ES seems to have all these qualities as well.

Having multiple projectors is not an option for me. Yeah, it would be very hard to give up my Pioneer Kuro, but if I can get a nice HW30ES, I'm willing to give it up.

At this point, I'm heavily leaning toward the HW30ES. I just hope I can get a good one. Either bite the bullet now or wait until I can pick up a good one in a used market.

I really appreciate your input. It helps a lot.
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post #2518 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

For the price and just for 3D, you could buy the Optoma hd33 and still keep your perfectly converged Panny (and I'm guessing) for not that much more money than getting rid of the Panny and upgrading to the Sony.

I would also be hesitant to go from a perfectly converged projector to one that I know will not likely be perfectly converged. I am lucky in that my JVC RS-45 has near perfect convergence (just blue off a tiny bit, which doesn't matter).
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If I had to do it over, I may just have bought the Sony (we'll see when I call JVC to gripe). I knew the JVC lamp was going to be an issue, but what I didn't know was how much it would affect the color of the picture in such a short amount of time. I am tired of re-calibrating the JVC, it gets old and you run out of room.

The Sony has excellent calibration controls and super accurate nice color OOTB.

Thanks for input. Sorry, I think you misunderstood my post; I should have been more clear. I don't currently have a Panasonic, that was one of my choice for a replacement. I currently have the Pioneer Kuro FPJ-1 (JVC IDLA RS-2).

I'm not a stickler for accurate color, but I do have some gripes with my JVC lamps of my own. It does seem to loose its brightness fairly quickly. Currently, my lamp has about 500hrs., but I can tell it's gotten significantly dimmer.

Anyway, initially thought about upgrading to another JVC, but after seeing cross-talks exhibited by the JVC, I decided to look elsewhere. Maybe next upgrade; I may go back to them again. I know they have stunning 2D performance.

All these factors landed me here, with the Sony HW30ES. This projector really seems to everything equally well. I just wanted to know if there are owners out there with issues that I can't live with. So far, everything seems pretty normal.

Sorry folks, I know this is a Sony forum. It seems though I've gotten off the topic.
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post #2519 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 08:17 PM
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You should be fine with the Sony, it sounds like the best match for what you want. It is very hard to buy a projector and make a decision, but you sound well matched to the Sony.
The Sony is the most diverse projector in its price range, it's truly the "I CAN DO EVERYTHING BUT CIH" projector.

I know almost every difference between each of these various projectors much like Zombie (partly from living in this forum, partly from the calculator, and partly from seeing most of them at various places), but even after seeing most of these projectors it is still a hard decision. For me, I ruled the Panny 7000 out early on because of the lower brightness to start with and the lower Native on/off, so that was an easy elimination for me. Over time the Panny is probably brighter than the JVC, but such is life. I still would not pick a Panny 7000 for my uses. The flickering issue is just salt on the wound, plus LCD can get dust blobs (covered by warranty though).

I ruled the Sony out mostly just because I figured it's time I own a JVC (I've owned Epson, Sony, Sanyo, Viewsonic, Mitsubishi, and now JVC, pretty much all techs in most models -- DLP/LCOS/LCD).

Each one will have an advantage/disadvantage, not even just for each tech, but each specific projector within that tech. Some are brighter, some are dimmer, some are sharper, some have more accurate color, some calibrate better and some do not, and some have better blacks, and some have better lamps (and on and on). Some get dust blobs and some do not.

I recommend the Sony a lot because:
Better lamps than JVC, better at gaming, better in 3D
Sharpness should be fine for most people, it's not a DLP but still
Higher pixel-fill of LCOS is a benefit especially if you sit closer than 1.5x screen width
Calibrates so well, and OOTB very good color


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post #2520 of 3270 Old 05-08-2012, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtchung View Post

One of the reason why I got interested in Sony is because of your mini-shootout. Excellent review, BTW. Yes, defective unit here and there is normal and inevitable, but like you said with the Panasonic, number of flickering issues are overwhelming. It seems like HW30ES is on the par with normal number of lemons.

I'm not expecting perfect, but there some quirks that I can't live with; flickering and bad convergence. Soft focus on edges are not that big of a deal, unless it's obviously noticeable.

Here are the qualities in the projector that I'm looking for:

Overall:
No flickering
Good convergence
Color uniformity
Quiet operation (fan noise)

2D:
Film-like look (soft image is OK)
Brighter image (Pioneer FPJ-1 has 600 lumens, I'm sure any projector in the market today can beat this)

3D:
Minimal ghosting (can't stand double images)
Darker image in 3D is OK.
Not really expecting too much from the 3D; this is secondary.

Panasonic had these qualities that I was looking for, but because of that flickering issue; it ruled itself out. The HW30ES seems to have all these qualities as well.

Having multiple projectors is not an option for me. Yeah, it would be very hard to give up my Pioneer Kuro, but if I can get a nice HW30ES, I'm willing to give it up.

At this point, I'm heavily leaning toward the HW30ES. I just hope I can get a good one. Either bite the bullet now or wait until I can pick up a good one in a used market.

I really appreciate your input. It helps a lot.

I'm glad the shoot-out thread helped. It turned into exactly what I was hoping for, a wide open discussion on the pros/cons of the 2012 models.

The HW30 is one of my favorite all around projectors this year for both 2D and 3D. I have several projectors, but I use the HW30 as my daily projector.

The 2D IQ will be familar to JVC owners, but it has some nice features your JVC doesn't like the excellent FI in 2D and 3D modes + brighter output. I recently bought an HW30 and a 106" 2.4 dalite HP for a friend who loves ice hockey. Their kids go nuts over the 3D.

In regard to getting a good copy, buy from a dealer like AVS that will back you if there is an issue. My first RS55 had some issues and they replaced it with no problem.
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