It's official. Projectors are obsolete 750" OLED coming this fall from Sony! - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 2063 Old 09-03-2011, 11:40 PM
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Chronoptimist, I assume you also see no possible discomfort factor with wearing a one pound, HDMI cord tethered, head gear contraption, forced to listen to Sony supra aural headphones pressed against your ear, for a two hour movie session, either.

I feel differently.

[Previous incarnations have also been known to make some people dizzy or sick, as well, but I have no info on this new one regarding that. Maybe they figured out what that was and have eliminated that as well?]

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #122 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post
As I said earlier, OLED is basically the best display technology out there, except it's very difficult and expensive to produce in large sizes, and is not suitable as a projector technology, only flat panels. This should effectively give you the very best of flat panel technology (as much as I enjoy projectors, they can't compete on contrast) with the size of a projector. That's why this is so exciting.
I'l like to see someone create an Oled projection screen( grey scale only) this used actively inconjunction with a projector.

Think of the active vari darkening of specific areas of the screen in sync with the projected frame controlled by a signal from a projector frame analysis circuit.......the On/Off and ANSI CR would be amazing!!

Sorry!

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post #123 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 03:07 AM
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At first I thought to myself, "how could two little .7" displays look like a movie theater screen?" Then I remembered that projectors have tiny little chips just about the same size, then magnified. Sort of the same concept here but a different way of getting there.
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post #124 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 03:21 AM
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reply of Kraine:

" The HMZ-T1 is a gadget, a cool gadget but nothing that can really compare to a projector, even what SONY representatives says.

The picture is great with a very good black level and sharpness, 3D effect is average but the sensation of a really big picture is missing."

a bit disapointing...
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post #125 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 04:41 AM
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My concern would be connecting it to my output devices. Does it come with a long, lightweight hdmi cable? I guess i would need a 1x2 switcher in the chain after my 5x1. Will there be iPhone and iPad adaptors?
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post #126 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 06:13 AM
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The display sounds cool with image quality way better than previous heads mounted displays I have seen down through the years, but I think I am sort of in M. Zilch's camp at this point with concerns about the weight and possible nauseous side effects.

It would be very useful input if one of you going to CEDIA could wear them for two hours straight and report on the experience.

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post #127 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p_sousa View Post

reply of Kraine:

" The HMZ-T1 is a gadget, a cool gadget but nothing that can really compare to a projector, even what SONY representatives says.

The picture is great with a very good black level and sharpness, 3D effect is average but the sensation of a really big picture is missing."

a bit disapointing...

The big picture is missing? Where's the 750in picture at?
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post #128 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonDono View Post

My concern would be connecting it to my output devices. Does it come with a long, lightweight hdmi cable? I guess i would need a 1x2 switcher in the chain after my 5x1. Will there be iPhone and iPad adaptors?

In one of the links it shows a little box the headset comes with. That is where you would plug devices into it and then there is one cable that goes from this box to headset.

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post #129 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 07:12 AM
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No problem. What's two hours at a show that's only open for about 26 total hours and has hundreds of exhibitors. Tell you what, I will wear them for all the time I am at Cedia. Two hours is not along enough time. We need repeated samples and various time lengths. Look for my report Of course I won't be able to see or report on anything else including anything else of interest Sony might have. You know, I am changing my mind. I won't be able to do it. Besides can't you imagine the guys waiting in line and the Sony people who want to show it to dealers while a consumer Cedia gate crasher wants to run a two hour test on the few pairs they might have on active exhibit?

Seriously, when they come out I will certainly report. I suspect the adverse impacts of the glasses will greatly vary depending on the viewer.

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post #130 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 08:07 AM
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The very first Walkman (audio cassette tape) sold in the US, TPS-L2, had a very useful feature which promptly disappeared on all later incarnations (for some odd reason): a big yellowish orange "push to listen" (to the external world for a moment) button (which may have simultaneously paused the audio tape transport, but I'm not sure). The concept was that as walking on the street, if you bump into a friend, you can press the button and exchange a quick "Hello, how's the family?" conversation without having to remove the head set. It activated a built in microphone on the top corner which temporarily would amplify the outside world's sound, instead of the music.

THESE VIDEO GOGGLES NEED THAT TOO, IMO! When you tap a button on the side of the goggles [just like Lt. Geordi La Forge does on Star Trek Next Generation] a built in 3D camera is activated which allows one to experience the outside world for a moment.

Previous versions of Glasstron video goggles have had different variations of "translucent mode" which also allowed you to see the outside world in some sense, but these new ones, as best as I can tell, have none, and other than a small slit at the bottom, (under your nose as with any pair of sunglasses), they pretty much completely block all external visual information. You can't see your popcorn, game controller, remote control, nachos, spouse, kids, or whatever else you might expect to normally see while watching TV/movie/games.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #131 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Chronoptimist, I assume you also see no possible discomfort factor with wearing a one pound, HDMI cord tethered, head gear contraption, forced to listen to Sony supra aural headphones pressed against your ear, for a two hour movie session, either.

I have owned high-end headphones that have weighed more, and almost exclusively use headphones for HT use as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

[Previous incarnations have also been known to make some people dizzy or sick, as well, but I have no info on this new one regarding that. Maybe they figured out what that was and have eliminated that as well?]

Small viewing distance coupled with awful LCD panels and a lack of adjustability. (pupillary distance etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonDono View Post

My concern would be connecting it to my output devices. Does it come with a long, lightweight hdmi cable? I guess i would need a 1x2 switcher in the chain after my 5x1. Will there be iPhone and iPad adaptors?

The HMD is connected to the receiver by a 3.5m cable. The receiver takes HDMI in, and has a pass through for your display.

The iPad has HDMI out. This is not a portable device though, if you want portability, the Zeiss Cinemizer OLED is the one to be looking for. It has an 8 hour battery and has support for Apple's 30-pin connector for video from an iPhone etc.



Oh and with regard to image size, a friend of mine has actually had access to a couple of prototypes of this at his job. (only just mentioned it when I started talking about how excited I am about this) He is no videophile unfortunately, but said the image was big and that he will be buying one the day it is released, if he can't get hold of one sooner.

Sony do say that the perceived image size may vary. I suspect this will be dependant on the pupillary distance and if you wer glasses/contacts, and what your correction is.
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post #132 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I have owned high-end headphones that have weighed more, and almost exclusively use headphones for HT use as it is.

Which greater than 1 pound supra-aural headphones did you own? I've not ever heard of any despite having followed headphones for several decades, only circumaural ones (an entirely different animal when it comes to comfort), which I myself use and enjoy for hours at a time since they don't press against the pinna (the external fleshy part of the ear), but rather a cushioned ring around the pinna.

Quote:
Small viewing distance coupled with awful LCD panels and a lack of adjustability. (pupillary distance etc.)

Please cite your source of information with a link. Thanks.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #133 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 09:08 AM
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m. zillch you know this product is much much more advanced than any other similar 'gadget' build before right?
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post #134 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Which greater than 1 pound supra-aural headphones did you own? I've not ever heard of any despite having followed headphones for several decades, only circumaural ones (an entirely different animal when it comes to comfort), which I myself use and enjoy for hours at a time since they don't press against the pinna (the external fleshy part of the ear), but rather a cushioned ring around the pinna.

They were circumaural. These are not headphones though. There is no clamping force on your ears to keep them on your head, there is a head strap on the unit to distribute the weight.
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post #135 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sethk View Post
there's no reason not to be excited about it.
I disagree, the fact that this is still being discussed in a projector forum just boggles the mind.

There's plenty of reasons not to be excited about it, such as:

-One viewer at a time.
-It's too big for something that keeps a simple HDTV aspect ratio.
-For a HMD experience to feel like you're actually there, you don't want a "750 inch HDTV", but something that surrounds your entire field of vision.
-Price
-720p resolution
-No WiGig. (you would think a HMD would be the perfect product to make a WiGig debut with...). So a wireless experience is completely out of the question.
-For the price you would think this thing would be able to track your head movement.

I could go on...
I'm not even saying i wouldn't use the thing, but people are kidding themselves if they think this is a replacement for a real 150" screen. It's a very different experience. (and mostly not in a good way)

To me this seems a very evolutionary step for this technology, for this to be ready for prime time it needs to cover your whole FOV, head tracking, wireless HD inputs. And of course way more resolution. After all, for your whole FOV you would need so much more real estate to fill and if it did cover your entire FOV at least this thing would have a pretty damn good excuse for being huge. And it would also be much, much higher resolution.


So, while i think this is a neat toy. I don't see this thing replacing my HDTV or my projector at all.
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post #136 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post
off course I was jesting.

However, this thing looks pretty freaking awesome. Sucks about the 720p thought. I wonder how convincing this thing will be in "mimicking" a true big screen? Anyone have experience with HMD displays?

If they can can make these OLED so tiny already, I wonder how far off OLED projectors might be?
It's approximately like having an 85" 16:9 screen viewed from 9ft away.

OLED projector is an impossibility just like wanting a plasma projector. OLED will be the replacement of plasma.

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post #137 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
The big picture is missing? Where's the 750in picture at?
Their claim of 750" picture is "750" picture viewed from (approx) 67 ft away"

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post #138 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 11:34 AM
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Waterboarding has gotten a bad name. How about strapping the prisoner to a chair and putting a pair of these things on him?

A couple hours of Whoopi Goldberg should make anyone talk.
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post #139 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 11:49 AM
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This looks fun and I want one but a tiny screen right up to your eyes does not equal a large screen experience.
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post #140 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

As I said earlier, OLED is basically the best display technology out there,

no its flawed , and never will be a standard, soon its all over for oled
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post20903787
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post #141 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 12:17 PM
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no its flawed , and never will be a standard, soon its all over for oled
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post20903787
Obvious troll is obvious.
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post #142 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 12:21 PM
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I would be nervous about longevity. Didn't they have major problems with breakdown of the organic molecules and concomitant picture degradation with all previous OLED displays? Not so much of a problem with a cell phone with a two year life span and where the picture quality, color temperature etc. isn't the be-all-end-all - but for a HT-device...
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post #143 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
So, while i think this is a neat toy. I don't see this thing replacing my HDTV or my projector at all.
I agree as it not being a replacement for a HDTV or projector but as a neat gadget/toy to try. I wouldn't think 2D would be better than having that on a projector but for those of you that can see 3D, I could see it being fantastic especially with video games. You might need a barf bag nearby after extended viewing though.

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post #144 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 12:28 PM
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I think debating whether its good or not based on theory is just filling up bandwidth with the usual garbage. Like anything, its an alternative to something else. We don't even know streets yet let alone official MSRP. Whether based on theory you will buy it is meaningless. Right now it is what it is and even now we really don't know what that is feature wise.

I remember when the first TV glasses came out and the sales through the airplane store mags. Seeing those in real life left a lot to be desired. Preliminary reports indicates this is much better and I suspect it might be a useful viewing alternative. We shall see. I have early adoptoritis. If they were $2K, I would not do it. But at likely pricing I will take a stab and besides I will know a lot more and be able to use a pair less than 4 days from now. Anybody getting on the lists is not obligated in a anyway, just lets you get one at the beginning if reports are good and pricing is good for you.

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post #145 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
There's plenty of reasons not to be excited about it, such as:

-One viewer at a time.
If your projector is primarily for social use, this is definitely not a replacement. When I had projectors, they were still used for personal use 99% of the time, maybe once or twice a month they would be used to watch a film with friends/family.

If this recreates the projector experience for a single viewer, then I no longer need to consider buying a high-end projector, and may just stick with a larger HDTV for those situations, as none of my friends/family are videophiles. They wouldn't know the difference between a budget DLP or a JVC X9, they would only notice the size.

No matter what you spend on a projector, unless you have a near-perfect environment (a room several times the size of the screen, velvet on all surfaces etc.) you will still get reflections reducing the contrast in any low-APL scene. The highest contrast projectors are all LCoS-based, which has poor motion handling and image sharpness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
-For a HMD experience to feel like you're actually there, you don't want a "750 inch HDTV", but something that surrounds your entire field of vision.
This is not a VR headset, it's for creating a personal cinema experience at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
-Price
At $800 (or possibly less) this is cheap for the kind of image quality you should get from dual OLED displays. Nothing else should be able to compete when it comes to contrast, motion handling, gradation, 3D brightness and complete elimination of crosstalk. (all current 3DTV/Projector systems are fairly crap)

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Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
-720p resolution
Perfect for games/3D. The current HDMI spec is 720p60 or 1080p24. Gaming needs to be done at 60fps for fluid motion, 1080p24 is unplayable. 720p is higher resolution than any of the passive 3D displays (540p) and active shutter displays are dim, flicker, exhibit lots of crosstalk and only send the image to one eye at a time.

If this does well enough, I'm sure they will have a 1080p revision at a later date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
-No WiGig. (you would think a HMD would be the perfect product to make a WiGig debut with...). So a wireless experience is completely out of the question.
With all the fuss about cell phones and cancer etc. I don't think it would be in their best interests to introduce the product with a 60GHz wireless link. (and/or wireless power)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
-For the price you would think this thing would be able to track your head movement.
Again, this is not a VR headset. Considering the size, while I'm sure it will be comfortable enough to lie down and watch a film, I'm not sure you'd want to be moving your head around a lot to look about in games. I'm sure that it would be rather easy to get TrackIR working with it though if you really cared about it.


Remember, this is essentially a first generation product. (I don't consider previous HMDs to be a viable solution for anything, they were so bad)


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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
This looks fun and I want one but a tiny screen right up to your eyes does not equal a large screen experience.
The optics (the reason it's this deep) throw the image back 20m (65ft)


As someone here already said, it's effectively a projector in reverse. Sony's own SXRD projectors use 0.61" panels for example, and then use optics to project an image. This uses 0.7" OLED panels and optics to create a "virtual" projection.

I am also fairly confident about the quality of these displays, because Sony are using similar ones (0.5" 1024x768 OLED panels) to replace optical viewfinders in three of their high-end digital cameras this year (Alpha 77, NEX-7 and NEX-5N external viewfinder) and reports for them have been extremely positive, with many claiming that it is at least as good, if not better than a full-frame viewfinder. (even the best APS-sized optical viewfinders are typically small and dull compared to full-frame)

To quote one review (first on google):
Quote:
Although there a few clues that the viewfinder is an EVF, when you are shooting with the Alpha 77, it is actually possible to forget it and think you are using an optical finder. The 1.3cm 2.4 million dot OLED screen uses the same technology as Sony's OLED televisions, albeit with shrunk-down dots, and its detail resolution is impressive. Unlike most EVFs, which have a visible texture, the view in the A77's finder is smooth.

...

the refresh rate of the EVF has been improved to the extent that it is possible to follow even very fast moving objects in the finder – just as you would with an optical viewfinder.

What's more, we didn't experience any distracting colour drag, so the viewfinder information and furniture aren't pursued by a rainbow of colours as the camera is moved around.



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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
It's approximately like having an 85" 16:9 screen viewed from 9ft away.
More like 85" at 7.5ft (44.7 degree FOV) but FOV is not the right way to compare it.

If the optics throw the image back 20m (where your eyes focus) then it is the same as looking at a large screen.

Your eye uses visual cues such as the distance they're focused at, to judge the size of an object. Even in a pitch-black room, you can tell the difference between a small screen right up against your face compared to being far back from a large screen because of this.

Even if it focuses at half that distance for you, that's still considerably further back than the projected image of any other HMD, and would still seem like you are looking at a large image from a distance, rather than being right up close to a small screen, which is more relaxing on the eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I remember when the first TV glasses came out and the sales through the airplane store mags. Seeing those in real life left a lot to be desired.
Right, because they were based on LCD panels (and LCD panels 10 years ago were unbelievably bad) did not make use of high quality optics to push the image back a good distance, had poor connectivity etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I will know a lot more and be able to use a pair less than 4 days from now.
Can't wait to hear your impressions. As previously mentioned, a friend has had access to these at work while they were in development, and said they were great, but he is no videophile.

I look forward to hearing impressions from someone that is not only a videophile, but is also familiar with projectors.
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post #146 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 12:58 PM
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(all current 3DTV/Projector systems are fairly crap)
-nice, but lemme tell you something, OLED is crapty, and laser/CRT is king ( for a while).
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post #147 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 01:05 PM
 
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Preety cool for watching while walking on a treadmill or laying in the sun...Don't really think this is the correct forum for these glasses. This is for "projectors over 3grand" right?...
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post #148 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gain3 View Post
-nice, but lemme tell you something, OLED is crapty, and laser/CRT is king ( for a while).
How are CRTs for 3D? I would have thought that phosphor decay would have been an issue. I never got a chance to try out 3D vision when I still had CRTs.

Laser projectors seem awesome, but they're still using a polarised passive system which probably still suffers from crosstalk to some degree? You can't beat one screen per eye for 3D.


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Preety cool for watching while walking on a treadmill or laying in the sun...Don't really think this is the correct forum for these glasses. This is for "projectors over 3grand" right?...
"Obsoleting projectors over 3 grand" forum?
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post #149 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
...OLED projector is an impossibility just like wanting a plasma projector...
Not true. The only thing preventing an economical OLED projector is light output. An OLED projector would work just like a CRT projector, take a 5" or 7" panel and put a lens in front of it. Heck, 3 7" panels might even get the CRTers to move.
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post #150 of 2063 Old 09-04-2011, 01:41 PM
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-the better grade the CRT phosphor behaves like laser
...
-let's not talk about how crapty's behave...
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