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post #3331 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Gleave View Post

So your chain is Oppo - Onkyo - Oppo - Sony - Darbee?
I would think the Oppo would do a better job of scaling than the Onkyo. Have you tried this?

I have went back and forth. Quite honestly I am not settled with that one yet. The Onkyo models (newer) have the HQV Vida 1900 chip which is the best in an AVR I have seen to date. In all fairness to the Oppo it could get a newer firmware that might push it even further. When I had the Edge and or a Duo the Onkyo's processing was better. It is the main reason why I have stuck with Onkyo the past couple years. I would love to experiment with the new Denon 4520 soon but I suspect the video processing might be the same as the 4311 and the Onkyo is better hands down. Of course I could send 1080i or 720p thru both and let the 1000 upscale. Hmmmm we have too many options these days. smile.gif

I will experiment during tomorrow's game and post back.

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post #3332 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post


I have went back and forth. Quite honestly I am not settled with that one yet. The Onkyo models (newer) have the HQV Vida 1900 chip which is the best in an AVR I have seen to date. In all fairness to the Oppo it could get a newer firmware that might push it even further. When I had the Edge and or a Duo the Onkyo's processing was better. It is the main reason why I have stuck with Onkyo the past couple years. I would love to experiment with the new Denon 4520 soon but I suspect the video processing might be the same as the 4311 and the Onkyo is better hands down. Of course I could send 1080i or 720p thru both and let the 1000 upscale. Hmmmm we have too many options these days. smile.gif
I will experiment during tomorrow's game and post back.

"Of course I could send 1080i or 720p thru both and let the 1000 upscale."    I thought that this was always considered the best choice.  ?

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post #3333 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I have went back and forth. Quite honestly I am not settled with that one yet. The Onkyo models (newer) have the HQV Vida 1900 chip which is the best in an AVR I have seen to date. In all fairness to the Oppo it could get a newer firmware that might push it even further. When I had the Edge and or a Duo the Onkyo's processing was better. It is the main reason why I have stuck with Onkyo the past couple years. I would love to experiment with the new Denon 4520 soon but I suspect the video processing might be the same as the 4311 and the Onkyo is better hands down. Of course I could send 1080i or 720p thru both and let the 1000 upscale. Hmmmm we have too many options these days. smile.gif
I will experiment during tomorrow's game and post back.

I would put the Lumagen up against any of them.

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post #3334 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 04:39 PM
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I choose native out of my set top FIOS box. I of course have to know what the native is and then select that. either its 720p or 1080i. ilet the Lumagen change either to 1080p and then having no choice from there let the sony take the 1080p to 4HD. I know the lumagen scales bettter than the Sony. as far as deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P and then scaling, i admit I need to try it letting the Sony deinterlace from 1080i to 1080p instead of the Lumagen.

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post #3335 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I choose native out of my set top FIOS box. I of course have to know what the native is and then select that. either its 720p or 1080i. ilet the Lumagen change either to 1080p and then having no choice from there let the sony take the 1080p to 4HD. I know the lumagen scales bettter than the Sony. as far as deinterlacing 1080i to 1080P and then scaling, i admit I need to try it letting the Sony deinterlace from 1080i to 1080p instead of the Lumagen.


This is precisely what I do (except that it's Native out of a DirectTV receiver).

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post #3336 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 05:45 PM
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I think there is to much processing going on here and I know it is hard to avoid it. Probably better to send native to the Sony and let it do its thing. I agree the Lumagen is the best video processor, as well as having a great CMS. If only we had these choices back in the CRT days.
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post #3337 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 06:07 PM
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Lumagen should just ease all our pain here and release the 4k radiance!!!!!
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post #3338 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


This is precisely what I do (except that it's Native out of a DirectTV receiver).

My direct tv receivers all had native outs, I miss that because I have to switch the Fios box through the remote when switching natives.

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post #3339 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 08:05 PM
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Lumagen should just ease all our pain here and release the 4k radiance!!!!!

It isn't close to ready yet. But by years end or so.

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post #3340 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 08:09 PM
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Really? I would call years end or early next year very soon! Awesome!
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post #3341 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post


My direct tv receivers all had native outs, I miss that because I have to switch the Fios box through the remote when switching natives.


I would get FIOS if I could, but I am really enjoying DirectTV; with my large screen and the 1000, I notice a VERY significant increased PQ for HDTV over Comcast.    And yes, being able to set Native output is very nice.

 

PS    And how about those GIANTS!

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post #3342 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 09:13 PM
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I would put the Lumagen up against any of them.

That's because you sell them. Quite honestly VPs are fading out fast and besides folks here at avs most don't even know what they are. And I would take that challenge with a 1000 and my components. With the new 103 and Darblet most would choose them. wink.gif I sure did! smile.gif And it is Receivers like the 3010, 5010 and other newer models which are making them extinct.

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post #3343 of 10755 Old 10-24-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post


That's because you sell them. Quite honestly VPs are fading out fast and besides folks here at avs most don't even know what they are. And I would take that challenge with a 1000 and my components. With the new 103 and Darblet most would choose them. wink.gif I sure did! smile.gif And it is Receivers like the 3010, 5010 and other newer models which are making them extinct.


The only reason I have a Radiance Mini is the Auto-calibration that is possible with ChromaPure.    Other than that, I more or less agree with you.

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post #3344 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 07:07 AM
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The only reason I have a Radiance Mini is the Auto-calibration that is possible with ChromaPure.    Other than that, I more or less agree with you.

And the Mini is their best pricing VP they have. Dont blame you at all for having that one. The days of spending an arm and a leg for a VP are long gone. And if they plan to sell their new 4K VP for a lot then they should only plan to make about 10. biggrin.gif

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post #3345 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 08:05 AM
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The problem with all this is the necessity to deinterlace and/or scale somewhere in the chain to 4HD or 4K. And to the best of my knowledge all scalers that can out put 4HD or 4K including the one built into the Sony VPL-vw1000ES ring. Noi matter what you do re scaling or deinterlacing elsewhere you have to get it to 4HD or 4K somewhere and you get ringing. Even Joerod can see it if he looks for it on his and my beloved Sony's.


Joerod. Since the new Oppo has one input for external sources, it now should not be described as a bluray player. It is now a limited input audio and video processor with a built in bluray drive. How good is that processing video wise? How full functioned is it. Yada yada. Guess you will be using an external processor or will you just cement a shorting plug into that input? smile.gif

The Lumagen has the only scaling that doesn't ring but presently there is no Lumagen that will output higher than 2K. Thank god its coming.

Likewise the Sony has no CMS. The colors are on the Sony are close but they can be touched up if one has an external CMS. And not all CMS's are created equal. Wait till you see the one that's coming in the coming Lumagen. Right now I can automatically calibrate at 125 points over the specified Rec 709 color space.Hell. Even you could do it. What I mean by that, it takes no real skill or patience with the automatation, something that I don't possess with respect to calibration either. smile.gif

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post #3346 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 08:06 AM
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Ok, joerod, you're worse than Don Trump on your "big announcement" on the new Oppo. Spill the beans.
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Joerod. Since the new Oppo has one input for external sources, it now should not be desribed as a bluray player. It is now a limited input audio and video processor with a built in bluray drive. Hoe good is that processing video wise? How full functioned is it. Yada yada. Guess you will be using an external processor or will you just cement a shorting plug into that input? smile.gif

Good one. And I don't think Oppo lets you do PiP or PoP either, which are great features especially for sports. wink.gif

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post #3347 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 08:40 AM
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To be fair Turls, neither does the Lumagen unless, as you have, one owns the XE model. But your point is well taken. For those who own an expensive projector it is nice not to be limited video processing wise to what's inside it. The Sony we (you, me, Joerod) all own is like any other video projector limited in its processing. not only is it limited, it is flawed (unlike Amy smile.gif) in certain areas. Ringing scaler, no CMS, no PIP etc. Given its Color accuracy, nothing really really no significant flaws here but still flaws. Those that know about external video processors and the coming new 4K Lumagen will quickly be able to eliminate those flaws.

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post #3348 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

That's because you sell them. Quite honestly VPs are fading out fast and besides folks here at avs most don't even know what they are. And I would take that challenge with a 1000 and my components. With the new 103 and Darblet most would choose them. wink.gif I sure did! smile.gif And it is Receivers like the 3010, 5010 and other newer models which are making them extinct.

Not at all. I use my Mini for three things. I still watch a lot of DVD and Netflix. The scaling in the Lumagen is far better than anything else that I have used. I also run an A-lens in my setup. Using the Lumagen for the vertical stretch (since it is scaling) is much better than letting the projector do it. Last I use my Lumagen for auto calibration. Mark uses a Lumagen with his 1000 and he too reports that the Lumagen does a better job of scaling than the 1000. The Onkyo I have not tested, but I would be very surprised to see any AVR that can scale as well as a Lumagen.

Many people talk about adding an A-lens and the picture looking slightly softer with the lens in place. I found that was the case when I added an A-lens, but I also found that it was not the lens that was making the image soft. It was the scaling (stretch) done by the projector. When I used the Lumagen for the vertical stretch the image was just as sharp with the A-lens as it was without the A-lens, except that it was now 33% larger. smile.gif

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post #3349 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 09:58 AM
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 ...   presently there is no Lumagen that will output higher than 2K. Thank god its coming....
 

Really looking forward to it, Mark; something else to spend $ on since I won't be buying a projector for a while!   (But I may need a new lamp soon as much as I use it.)

 

But I hope the '4K Radiance Mini' doesn't cost $10K !

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post #3350 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 10:03 AM
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Really looking forward to it, Mark; something else to spend $ on since I won't be buying a projector for a while!   (But I may need a new lamp soon as much as I use it.)

But I hope the '4K Radiance Mini' doesn't cost $10K !

No mini coming here. I know the MSRP of the new one and its quite a bit under $10K but it won't be cheap like the mini. Cheap is relative with the mini MSRPing for $1995.But there will be trade in programs and dealers discounting as well.

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post #3351 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 10:19 AM
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OK, so I've got some questions (possibly stupid ones because I haven't been paying attention)...

So when this Radiance 4K comes out, how do you handle 720p60 or 1080i60 (or 1080p60 or any >24p for that matter) when the Sony can only accept 4K at 24p (well according to the specs 30p tops). Would you scale 60p to 3840x2160p30 and drop half the frames? Or would you give up the great Lumagen scaling and only scale to 1080p60 and let the Sony scale to 2160p60?

The other things that have been running through my mind:
Would a Prismasonic HD5000 do more harm than good? Ie do you need a ISCO-class cylindrical?
Would an original batch SMX screen not have a fine enough structure?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #3352 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 10:23 AM
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No mini coming here. I know the MSRP of the new one and its quite a bit under $10K but it won't be cheap like the mini. Cheap is relative with the mini MSRPing for $1995.But there will be trade in programs and dealers discounting as well.

Hopefully also a special 'early adopters' price, e.g., something like the Darblet did.

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post #3353 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 10:25 AM
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No mini coming here. I know the MSRP of the new one and its quite a bit under $10K but it won't be cheap like the mini. Cheap is relative with the mini MSRPing for $1995.But there will be trade in programs and dealers discounting as well.

What about a trade-in program + dealer discounting? Wishful thinking, I suspect.

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post #3354 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 03:42 PM
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There will be a beta tester program and the rest is not wishful thinking. Just too early for any details and dealers will do what we do

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post #3355 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 03:45 PM
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I thought all the owners of the Sony VW1000 were already Beta testers for 4K... Hehe. tongue.gif
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So I'm noticing some heavy grain on dark scenes. To the level of missing detail. Does not appear to be intentional for the films I tested. Any thoughts on a setting I should review that may have exaggerated that behavior or allow me to control it?

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post #3357 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 05:17 PM
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To the extent that one buys a projector right after its release, software changes often occur. Buy a 1000ES now and I don't foresee changes coming until there is a 4K 60 input added. Good questions Stanger. i need to think a bit on that. Not a problem with Bluray scaled through the Lumagen. As to 1080p 60 and 720p 60, I think one would get best results feeding out of the Lumagen at 1080p 60 and waiting to use the full scaling capacity of the Lumagen until Sony offers a 4K 60 input board. It will come. I just don't know when. The chips are available now.

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post #3358 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 05:21 PM
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Re an anmorphic lens with the Sony, i'd want to get a 4K rated lens and that's really expensive. The Sony has good lumens out for normal size large wide screens and I would just zoom. remember the chip is 1.89 to start with and as long as your active image is greater than 1.89 (or at least equal to that).ou can set the Sony to use the full chip width.

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post #3359 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 05:26 PM
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I would love to Beta Test 4K Blu ray (Ultra HD)... smile.gif

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post #3360 of 10755 Old 10-25-2012, 05:34 PM
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My guess is that Sony will within a year or two come out with a 4K ray player, whatever it will be called, and be releasing 4HD content from its library. I doubt there will be a beta testing program.The Bluray consortium has under active discussion 4HD standards.

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