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post #4141 of 10568 Old 03-27-2013, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Just spoke with "Redray" and we are still up in the air on a possible ship date. Will Sony or Netflix beat them to the punch? eek.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The Redry is a player SD card, drive, or internet downloaded content. The lame ass excuse for something that was supposed to ship in january is that theuy contracted with a third party to develop software and the third psarty is late, not them.

regardless their internet content distributor, Odemax, hasn't been heard from since jan 2oth is not ansering emails (it was supposed to have a psartial roll out at sundance inlate january and a full roll out this month. I think its dead.

I dont think anyone should be surprised...don't they have a bit of history of announcing ship dates and missing them about as wide as a blindfolded man skeet shooting?

I still don't understand the fuss - where's the beef when it comes to content we;d care about?
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post #4142 of 10568 Old 03-27-2013, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


I dont think anyone should be surprised...don't they have a bit of history of announcing ship dates and missing them about as wide as a blindfolded man skeet shooting?

I still don't understand the fuss - where's the beef when it comes to content we;d care about?

sucks.. I was looking forward to seeing The Strange Love of Martha Ivers in 4k. Oh well.. rolleyes.gif

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post #4143 of 10568 Old 03-27-2013, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The Redry is a player SD card, drive, or internet downloaded content. The lame ass excuse for something that was supposed to ship in january is that theuy contracted with a third party to develop software and the third psarty is late, not them.

regardless their internet content distributor, Odemax, hasn't been heard from since jan 2oth is not ansering emails (it was supposed to have a psartial roll out at sundance inlate january and a full roll out this month. I think its dead.
That is a misunderstanding that you have posted all over the place.
After Red launched the pre-order, some company(s) offered them some software implementations that was interesting enough for them to rather hold back the release of the player until the new software could be integrated with the RedRay software than shipping the first players without. I have an inkling what it might be (just guessing) but we will see when it ship if I am right.
There was also be several other interested parties (CEM and content owners) that contacted Red after the "lauch"/CES that have their particular demands.
And then when times drag out, NAB seems a better place/opurtunity to have some big announcment.

This development is very typical Red. First they release some information and specs. Then some people come with ideas for improvements, and Red take their time to implement them rather than release without. Other companies save improvements for their "next year model".

Here are some exchanges from a March 13 thread titled " 4K for the finish... ":
Quote:
Jarred Land

Last year we developed the 4K Laser Projector because a year ago the display industry didn't look like it was moving fast enough.

How things change..

At this years CES a few months there were literally dozens of different 4K televisions being shown by pretty much every manufacture that are either on the market now or are on their way.. and TODAY you can buy 4K displays from Amazon.com, EBAY, and Google. Prices are starting to come down from the moon.

You all know about our hardware REDRAY player that delivers incredible quality 4K over the internet at 9Mb/sec, and you will soon understand why we are putting our emphasis not only on Dragon but heavily into the REDRAY player.. why we have taken the time to get it right.. to do what nobody else can.

After being the ONLY non "computer" based 4K player being shown working at this years CES, some surprising groups have shown up on our door and this is becoming less of " the future " and more of " the now " every week that passes.

You can probably guess that in the next 6-12 months there will be alot of 4K distribution triggers being pulled by alot of different companies and I have a feeling when it does turn on its going to move quick.
Quote:
How's Odemax doing?
Thats just one of the companies we are not allowed to talk about till they are ready..

You can tell its really hard for us to keep all this stuff in. The bigger these companies we start working with, the more we realize we have a very different relationship with our customers than pretty much everyone else.
We also realize everyone else is always late as well.. but nobody ever hears about it because most others don't announce stuff till engineering is complete.

I guess we are suckers for punishment to decide to publicly announce before we should and then miss almost every date we ever give smile.gif

Wait for NAB.............then you can start screaming "bloody murder" again. biggrin.gif
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post #4144 of 10568 Old 03-27-2013, 05:57 AM
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sucks.. I was looking forward to seeing The Strange Love of Martha Ivers in 4k. Oh well.. rolleyes.gif

I'm waiting for the 3D version...
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post #4145 of 10568 Old 03-27-2013, 08:10 AM
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Jarred Land? Please. biggrin.gif

Seriously, they should issue a statement or at the very least email the folks who had the balls to put in a pre order in November/December. We get that they are implementing new ideas and features but it just looks bad when you treat the customer base like mushrooms (keep us in the dark and feed us $hit- or in this case nothing). We are invested in 4K (proof by buying the 1000ES) and many of us here were excited to pioneer the Redray player but at this time some are starting to fold. Either they are trying to add new groups or they are having issues with the few units they are beta testing. Either way some info would be good... If they do not release a statement or an update by next week I plan to cancel. Let's face it, at this rate if and when they do ever make it out we will have other options...

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post #4146 of 10568 Old 03-27-2013, 01:07 PM
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Seriously, they should issue a statement or at the very least email the folks who had the balls to put in a pre order in November/December.

Exactly, why do I have to troll forums with a lot of banter that I care nothing about to get a tidbit of news on something I gave them my credit card information for? At least e-mail me. Even Kickstarter projects run by individuals have 1000 times better communication than RED on this....

Matt
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post #4147 of 10568 Old 03-29-2013, 06:23 PM
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I didn't put in a pre-order for RedRay for this very reason. I never once believed they'd hit their release date, or frankly, even come close. I wouldn't be surprised if it came out in October or later. By then, I'm sure there'll be alternatives.

If I had preordered though, I'd be really ticked about the lack of communication. Poor communication is one of my pet-peeves-- a simple update email is so easy to do.

A good example of proper communication is the Oculus Rift. I backed their Kickstarter last year and I get an update email once a week, sometimes more (three this week). When they delayed the product for four months, I got an in-depth email explaining why, the improvements they'd make in that time, and even a rough manufacturing schedule! Guess what? No one complained! People felt like they were part of the process, not having their money/credit card information held hostage with only vague message board statements to go on.

I think customers are much more forgiving than companies give them credit for. If the reason is legitimate and communicated properly, you'll have happy customers. It's Public Relations 101. I'm not sure why it's so rare these days.
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post #4148 of 10568 Old 03-29-2013, 08:46 PM
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Coolscan. At NAB idiot reporters will be clamoring for interviews. Young reporters who Ted can chew up like a soft taco. He will say how they dominate the industry now and all the stuff that has been shot using Red cameras, will say that here look we have a Redray feeding somebody's 4K panel monitor and how it should be shipping soon, yada yada yada. He will say nothing and some young woman reporter will misinterpret what he said as saying something. Any technical questions and he will smile saying you will have to ask their engineering department which the reporter never follows up or does. yea. They will show the same kludged together 4K projector they showed last year. Saying its 4 to 6 months off. I emailed Ted suggested answers for reporter questions .Actually I just wrote the same answers he has historically given. I really don't care how long Red takes.to get the Redray out. Its useless without content to me and Odemax has not uttered a word since the we are sick from Sundance. They are dead and missed their previously announced really big roll out in March. They only roll they had was their casket being transferred to the crematory.

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post #4149 of 10568 Old 03-30-2013, 06:58 AM
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Big 1000ES news for me. I finally got it off my test table and hung it. The wires and ceiling flange amd pipe have been sitting unused for a year. Moved the test table out. Room looks a lot better.

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post #4150 of 10568 Old 03-30-2013, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Big 1000ES news for me. I finally got it off my test table and hung it. The wires and ceiling flange amd pipe have been sitting unused for a year. Moved the test table out. Room looks a lot better.

I trust that your ceiling is properly reinforced!
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post #4151 of 10568 Old 03-30-2013, 08:36 AM
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Mark,
I thought you were moving to Florida. Did you decide to stay put?
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post #4152 of 10568 Old 03-30-2013, 05:09 PM
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They are shooting the virtual tour for our house on Monday and it should be up on the MLS by Friday. I thought the theater would look better with the Sony flying instead of sitting on a small round table between the rows of seats. The table went back to make the inlaw kitchen in our house look better. I will post a link to the MLS listing which will obviously have one or two pictures of the theater. I have flown projectors in my HT before but since I get to play with so many, I haven't bothered to fly one since my Samsung left. The ceiling flange and the wires were just left in place, all I had to do was buy a mounting plate for the Sony. It does look nice out of the way. I have been busting my rear getting the house ready. Worked on the garage today and will finish it tomorrow. Happy Passover. Unleavened bread and all I feel like is a slave.

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post #4153 of 10568 Old 03-31-2013, 08:47 AM
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Since you installed the projector I guess it stays with the house.smile.gif
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post #4154 of 10568 Old 03-31-2013, 09:43 AM
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Since you installed the projector I guess it stays with the house.smile.gif

Those are tbe rules I heard, too.
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post #4155 of 10568 Old 03-31-2013, 02:00 PM
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Actually, no. I have specifically excluded it in the realtor notes which accompany the listing. I did say the equipment excluded, my Lumagen, the Sony and mount, and one of my subs, an Aerial (there are two transmission line subs weighing about $300 pounds each, hidden in the ceiling which do convey), are negotiable. The price I would charge is dealer cost replacement plus shipping new ones to me. I am beat. The garage still has a ways to go but the bulk of the stuff I had stored there is gone. About another days work but they don't shoot inside photos of the garage and the house won't be shown until Sunday so I have some time. Its a pity I can't turn on the waterfall in my koi pond but its still too cold and I don't want the fish to get sick by circulating the warmer water from the pond bottom (4500 gals) with the colder top water and effect a drastic lowering of the bottom water temperature. We are about three weeks off from staring up the pond again. IIts clean though. Perhaps we will reshhot the outside then when the landscaping starts to bloom too.y

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post #4156 of 10568 Old 04-01-2013, 12:38 PM
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I'm trying to decide between this projector, and a 1080p projector, likely the DPI HIGHLite 330-3D-HB. I'm leaning toward the Sony at the moment, and I've read the last 1000 posts or so on this thread.

It seems like there are a number of issues with this projector that people have been dealing with, namely:

(1) A banding problem of some sort, which I understand can be fully fixed by killing the blub prematurely
(2) "Dust blobs"
(3) Issues with the zooming memory not quite remembering where to go (likely not an issue for me as I plan to A-lens).
(4) Seemingly poor quality control in general, with a number of random issues scattered throughout this thread.

Despite these issues it seems that people have been generally pleased with customer support from Sony, and their willingness to exchange faulty projectors.

All-in-all this has been a very helpful thread, and many thanks to the various contributors. Some questions for you guys:

* Are there any other problems I should be aware of that people are finding consistently?
* It seems like people are having to get 2, or even 3 of these before they find one that is reasonably free of issues. Is that the norm, or is the first projector typically good from the start?
* Are the newer projectors more or less likely to have issues?
* Despite these faults it seems like people are generally very pleased with their decision and wouldn't change it if they could.

Finally, if anyone compared any similarly priced projectors before settling on the Sony, I'd love to hear some impressions.

In case it helps answer any of the above, some basic stats on my room / setup: Room size is about 20'x30', seating distances are about 12.5' in first row, about 19' in 2nd row, and about 23' in third row. Screen size is 132" x 56", 2.35:1 AR, probably a StudioTek 130 G3, acoustically transparent.

Thanks!
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post #4157 of 10568 Old 04-01-2013, 12:50 PM
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* It seems like people are having to get 2, or even 3 of these before they find one that is reasonably free of issues. Is that the norm, or is the first projector typically good from the start?

Seems like the ones I've sold have been good from the start.

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post #4158 of 10568 Old 04-01-2013, 07:40 PM
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Hi aligborat. You've certainly done your homework.
Quote:
* It seems like people are having to get 2, or even 3 of these before they find one that is reasonably free of issues. Is that the norm, or is the first projector typically good from the start?!
I had one with "a random issue". Sony's 3 month exchange program more then made up for it. I literally got a replacement projector shipped to my door in a couple of days, with a return label for door side pickup of my old projector. And I have the piece of mind that if another "random issue" crops up withing 3 months, I can exchange it.
Quote:
* Are the newer projectors more or less likely to have issues?
I bought mine about a month ago and it had a "random" issue.
Quote:
* Despite these faults it seems like people are generally very pleased with their decision and wouldn't change it if they could.
Yes, I am very very pleased.
Quote:
Finally, if anyone compared any similarly priced projectors before settling on the Sony, I'd love to hear some impressions.
Besides of course wanting a great, bright image, I also wanted a quiet projector. I didn't find any projector, at any price, that was as bright AND quiet as the Sony. The JVC's are a bit dimmer and a bit louder. The Lumis 3D solo is brighter but noticeably louder.

One knock on the Sony is that it doesn't have a CMS system. This hasn't been an issue for me, since it is reasonably well calibrated out of the box, and I intend to purchase a $600 eecolor box which will allow for a much more precise calibration then the "standard" color/gamma controls that come with other projectors.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Alex
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post #4159 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 06:26 AM
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Out of the box the colors are fine. After some usage, say 300 hours, the unit needs to be recalibrated as to gray scale temperature but not primary or secondary points of the color triangle. Of course, a CMS is not needed for gray scale calibration. The unit has RGB cut and drive controls in the user menu and are sufficient to effect a proper gray scale .I have multiple ee color boxes and I think it is ridiculous to bother with generating new LUT tables instead of just using the 124 multi point of my Lumagen. Frankly, anything beyond 7 point is not needed with the Sony and even the 7 points have been spot on.

One must remember that calibration only results in one having the colors displayed as the colorist saw them. If you are advanced in age, your eye lenses have yellowed and you will not necessarily perceive the colors as a colorist with young eyes perceived them.

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post #4160 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 10:00 AM
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Anyone interested on how well the new Samsung BD F7500 upscales to 4K? I will report back soon. smile.gif

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post #4161 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 11:41 AM
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My personal opinion, 4K upscaling is just a marketing trick. No mater what you do, you display or projector will show 1080.
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post #4162 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 11:52 AM
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My personal opinion, 4K upscaling is just a marketing trick. No mater what you do, you display or projector will show 1080.

That is true to a certain extent. Not every device scales video the same. Each method yields different results. If done incorrectly the video can have a lot of artifacts and detract from the original quality.
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post #4163 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 11:58 AM
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My personal opinion, 4K upscaling is just a marketing trick. No mater what you do, you display or projector will show 1080.


A true 4K projector can ONLY display a 4k image, either native or interpolated. Whether upscaling matters is another story, but it is a technological function.
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post #4164 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
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My personal opinion, 4K upscaling is just a marketing trick. No mater what you do, you display or projector will show 1080.

Not the 1000ES. You send even upscaled 4K and it will show it as that.

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post #4165 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 02:15 PM
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After having a good conversation with someone about 4K (I can't post about who and what yet) I decided it was time to cancel my Redray order. The price of 1450.00 is just not realistic for downloading content. Especially when the competition will be well below it. Maybe in December I would have still been on board at that price. Even just a few weeks ago but without as much as a simple email explaining delay after delay or an announcement on their site I am considering this one of those "everything happens for a reason" explanations. As far as I am concerned redray might as well be fakeray because I doubt they ever release anything. I know their will be native 4K in the not to distant future and at a much more attractive price. And with a hell of a lot more content!

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post #4166 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 02:20 PM
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$1,500 for a player, youchie...
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

A true 4K projector can ONLY display a 4k image, either native or interpolated. Whether upscaling matters is another story, but it is a technological function.

Yah the person that posted that likely did not realize this is a TRUE 4k projector with native 4k resolution. Just about every other post in here is about 4k, you guys didn't break the bank for 1080p (oh wait, yah you did since there isn't much 4k yet, just kidding with you).


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post #4167 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 03:33 PM
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With a minuscule install base of 4K/UHD displays what's the fuss over? Enjoy what you have now.

RED's solution has no chance in h-ll of becoming the industry standard for 4K to the home.

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post #4168 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 03:47 PM
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With a minuscule install base of 4K/UHD displays what's the fuss over? Enjoy what you have now.

RED's solution has no chance in h-ll of becoming the industry standard for 4K to the home.


Don't be so quick to call them "dead in the water ".
If they get other HD and UHD streaming companies like Netflix, Hulu Plus, Vudu etc they may get it off the ground.
No one else has the technology for streaming 4k.
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post #4169 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 04:22 PM
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Actually the company I spoke to has the capability and they are far into production. We will be able to stream 4K soon with studio support and for a hell of a lot less than 1450.00. Don't let their marketing fool you. They fooled me once by getting me to pre order.

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post #4170 of 10568 Old 04-02-2013, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Actually the company I spoke to has the capability and they are far into production. We will be able to stream 4K soon with studio support and for a hell of a lot less than 1450.00. Don't let their marketing fool you. They fooled me once by getting me to pre order.

Your not alone

So did I
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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