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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Sony VPL-vw1000
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering 08:35 AM 04-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

Even if i get a "4K Blu Ray Player" when its available, will the current 1.4 HDMI on the VW1000 be able to accept an HEVC H.265 signal?

HEVC is simply a compression format. It has nothing to do with what is going over the HDMI pipeline as it has already been decoded. So yes it should go over HDMI 1.4 just fine so long as whatever was on the disc is a supported resolution and framerate (i.e. 4K@24p)

whitetrash66's Avatar whitetrash66 08:50 AM 04-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

HEVC is simply a compression format. It has nothing to do with what is going over the HDMI pipeline as it has already been decoded. So yes it should go over HDMI 1.4 just fine so long as whatever was on the disc is a supported resolution and framerate (i.e. 4K@24p)

Thanks Kris! that's what i thought, but the author of the "article" i read stated that HDMI had to decode the signal on the display side; totally wrong assumption i guess. Here's the quote from the article:
"So this past January, the white lab coat-wearing crowd who performs this mathematical wizardry conjured a next-generation digital video compression codec called HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding), or H.265, to compress hefty 4K files.

But none of the current UHDs include HEVC decoding, and likely won't until next year. This means no current UHD set will be able to play back future 4K content."

link: http://tech.lifegoesstrong.com/article/dont-buy-4k-uhd-84-tv
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering 10:06 AM 04-30-2013
Seems like a misunderstanding. Whatever is playing the source that is compressed with the HEVC codec is what has to be able to decode it. In this case that would be the Blu-ray player. Displays don't care about compression formats, they care about the video the output device sends.
d.j.'s Avatar d.j. 04:18 PM 04-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMundt View Post

So strangely enough, I was about to jump into a game on my PS3 today, and I noticed that I now have the same optical issue that was discussed earlier. What's weird about it though is that I'm 90% sure it wasn't there when I first received the projector.

The two pictures don't really do it justice-- the first photo makes it look much worse than it actually is, and the second picture makes it look like it's barely there. In reality, it's somewhere in the middle. It looks like the convergence is off, but it's not. I did zone-by-zone correction (took about two hours to get it just right), so it's dead-nuts on.

I tried playing around with the settings (RC, focus, shift/zoom, contrast and sharpness, etc.) and nothing really eliminates the problem. I also ruled out issues with the screen by projecting onto a solid white wall and noticed the same thing.

Honestly, it's not something that would warrant a replacement in my book (at least not yet), so I'll just live with it for now. It's difficult to notice from my front row. If it bothers me down the line, I'll have it replaced.

Any ideas as to what's causing it?

]

By the way, here's the thread that JonStatt referenced earlier-- looks to be almost the exact same thing.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1375094/official-jvc-x30-rs45-owners-thread/990

The "streaks" in mine seem to be much redder than Riddick's, which appear more blueish. Maybe it's an issue with panel alignment? My convergence was almost spot-on right out of the box, though. Only needed a few clicks for red and blue.

Anyone else have a PS3 that could snap a few photos?


Brian

Do not have that problem ( the little blue in the Picture is actully from the camera, it can not be seen when you look at it direct )





dj
Ron Jones's Avatar Ron Jones 05:12 PM 04-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

I have a question about this projector....

I understand that HDMI 1.4 will pass a 4096x2160 signal and 24 hertz, and a 3840x2160 signal at 30 hertz. I was initally concerned about this for gaming (movies should be fine) but i tried 30 hertz output on my pc and current VW95 (at 1080, mind you) and didn't mind playing at all. I don't really play too many fast shooters. Anyway...


What i'm concerned about is this: I can get it this year and be satisfied with the image it throws at 3840x2160 for gaming, which is fine. BUT i just read an article this morning stating that HEVC H.265 will be used (probably) for 4K blu rays. Even if i get a "4K Blu Ray Player" when its available, will the current 1.4 HDMI on the VW1000 be able to accept an HEVC H.265 signal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

HEVC is simply a compression format. It has nothing to do with what is going over the HDMI pipeline as it has already been decoded. So yes it should go over HDMI 1.4 just fine so long as whatever was on the disc is a supported resolution and framerate (i.e. 4K@24p)

I suspect the confusion is because Samsung announced they are adding HEVC support to some of their new smartv models. However, this is not for 4K, but rather in anticipation of future web streaming services that will switch from h.264 AVC to HEVC.



.
whitetrash66's Avatar whitetrash66 05:47 PM 04-30-2013
Ah, I see. So I wouldn't have to worry about streaming apps and stuff if my projector is hooked up to my pc, as I could stream using my pc and hdmi 1.4 port, correct?
work permit's Avatar work permit 09:27 PM 04-30-2013
Brian

I don't have this problem, at least not with any text source i could find including the following shots from a sony bdp-s790:






I have 115 hours on my lamp. No sign of the issue you mention. Pics are from a camera phone so not indicative of overall color or quality. Meant to show no streaking.
d.j.'s Avatar d.j. 01:32 PM 05-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

Ah, I see. So I wouldn't have to worry about streaming apps and stuff if my projector is hooked up to my pc, as I could stream using my pc and hdmi 1.4 port, correct?


Yes


dj
aligborat's Avatar aligborat 04:05 PM 05-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I agree that the 1000ES would not be bright enough for a 1.0 screen of my size. I find the HP2.4 (which make the large size possible) to give an exceptionally smooth and refined surface, and calibration with ChromaPure (and a RadianceMini) takes care of any minor color shift.

Mark keeps telling me that the Stewart Snomat100 is even better, so I'm really looking forward to seeing his week after next. (Even if it is, though, I wouldn't give up the size I have.)


I'm almost certainly buying this projector soon. My proposed setup is:

* 144" x 61" 2.35:1 StudioTek 130 screen
* About a 20' throw distance
* Anamorphic lens

I'm expecting to still get about 16 fL *after* calibration, and after a decent amount of lamp burn-in. Do any of you think I won't get to 16 fL with my setup?
millerwill's Avatar millerwill 04:21 PM 05-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by aligborat View Post

I'm almost certainly buying this projector soon. My proposed setup is:

* 144" x 61" 2.35:1 StudioTek 130 screen
* About a 20' throw distance
* Anamorphic lens

I'm expecting to still get about 16 fL *after* calibration, and after a decent amount of lamp burn-in. Do any of you think I won't get to 16 fL with my setup?

Your arrangement should require ~ 740 lumens (16x60/1.3), which the 1000ES should do for quite a while.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 05:00 PM 05-02-2013
I would get the 100 over the 130. I have both and the 100 beats the 130 hands down in making the screen disappear and in adding a level of realism. i'd trade the brightness any day.
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering 06:56 PM 05-02-2013
Guess I'm going to have to do some critical viewing of my screen in the next few days. I have 20/10 vision in one eye and 20/15 in the other. I sit about 13' back from a 120" diagonal ST130. Screen texture has NEVER been an issue with the G3. I am very sensitive to screen texture on the HP screens, Firehawks and Grayhawks and I've seen in on the older version of the ST130, but I can't recall seeing it with my G3. I'll have to look at a lot of material this weekend looking specifically for it to see if it is truly an issue. Art of Flight would probably be a good one with its bright whites, or just some full field white patterns.
R Harkness's Avatar R Harkness 08:03 PM 05-02-2013
I have the G3 ST-130. I'm extreeeeemly sensitive to screen texture but needed the gain. Luckily it's mostly benign and usually doesn't jump out to bother me. But I can certainly still
see the sparkly screen texture if I look for it in brighter areas, especially on something like snow scenes.

Tempted by the 100, but probably too dim for some of the image sizes I like.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 05:20 AM 05-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I have the G3 ST-130. I'm extreeeeemly sensitive to screen texture but needed the gain. Luckily it's mostly benign and usually doesn't jump out to bother me. But I can certainly still
see the sparkly screen texture if I look for it in brighter areas, especially on something like snow scenes.

Tempted by the 100, but probably too dim for some of the image sizes I like.


The 130 is a very fine screen. I used one for many years. I was never bothered by any let's call it artifacting it did. I really never saw any artifacting. Unlike others, I don't spend my time looking for things.

For many years I have read about Studeotec or Snomatte 100. The pros use it, yada yada and I finally had a world class projector, the Sony VPL-vw1000ES with its 8 zillion pixels. And I was absolutely wowed by the picture on my 54 x 96 Studeotec 130.

I juxtaposed my self into a position where I could obtain a 54 x 96 piece of 100 for next to nothing. So I said what the hell.

It arrived punched for my existing 4 way electric masking fixed screen. I unsnapped the 130 and snapped in the 100. Man what a difference. The decrease in brightness was not really noticeable in 2D but was quite noticeable in 3D. But the image. Wow. It was like the screen was replaced by a look through the window with no glass in the window frame. The great picture I had before was replaced with a picture a whole order of magnitude better. Chris? You got that? Really. I couldn't believe how much better the image was. It was great before but now? Wow. I called Tom Huffman over and a local Widescreen Review reviewer who had seen my system with the Sony 1000 and the Stewart 130. They both kind of ridiculed me on the phone about how there could be that much of a difference. I said you have to see it. They both came over and verified my observations.

I offer no criticism of the 130. Its just that the 100 is better. It makes the screen drop out of the equation. You don't see it anymore. Things look more real.

But. Its not for large screens or for rooms that aren't black pits. You can't have it all, at least with the limited lumens out of the Sony. Bring it on with a really high quality light cannon from Sim2. But then you would have to give up the 4K.
Kris Deering's Avatar Kris Deering 09:39 AM 05-03-2013
Good comments Mark. With my screen I need to stick with the ST130. I am running at about 14 fL for 2D and 5 fL for 3D with my JVC X75. I use low lamp for 2D and high lamp for 3D. The JVC is just way too loud for running in high lamp, which is what I'd have to do with something like the 100. If I had a Sony it may be a different story since their high lamp is as quiet as JVC's low lamp. But at this point I don't want to give up the brightness (despite the fact that I've had a 8-10 fL setup in this room before and been more than happy with it).
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 12:07 PM 05-03-2013
One thing I found interesting with my samples of both perforated and non perforated ST130 and Snomatte 100 is that the Snomatte is a MUCH thicker material than the ST130. Not even close. In fact, when comparing a cross section of the materials, the Snomatte looks like two pieces of material sandwiched together. I just found that interesting...

I also would assume the thicker Snomatte perf would be worse for AT screens as there is simply heavier / thicker vinyl in front of the sound.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 02:02 PM 05-03-2013
I won't give up the better video that a non perf has. With a smaller screen size there really is no reason to go with a perf anyway except if you have multiple rows with the further away rows on risers. then it is necessary as I did to mount the center speaker above the screen and fly the left/right from ceiling poles to keep their acoustical centers with 2 vertical feet of the center speaker acoustical center.
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 03:15 PM 05-03-2013
Yep I agree.. with a 54x96 screen, no reason to think about perf.
millerwill's Avatar millerwill 09:22 PM 05-03-2013
Mark, I'm back home now, and FYI I checked the output of my Sony1000, now with 966 hrs (on my 2nd lamp--yes, I know I use it too much!): I'm using high lamp**, and measured ~ 1225 lumens (~18 fc on my 68 ft^2 screen). So if I were to have a 1.0 gain screen, I would be getting ~18 ftL off the screen. As it is with my HP2.4, I'm getting 35 ftL or so--watching the Giants-Dodgers game at present--and it is an extremely dynamic pic, like a giant plasma, and looks great. I see no grain, or any other artifacts in the pics; it looks smooth and 'integral'.

Of course I can't say whether or not the Snowmatte100 would give a nicer pic. I would truly love to have one here to find out, but that's probably not going to happen. Though I do indeed trust your judgement and experience, at present I just cannot see anything that could improve.

**In low lamp I get ~ 880 lumens (13 fc) and thus ~ 25 ftL, also nice. Seems like my 2nd lamp is a much better performer than my first.
TheSony4KRises's Avatar TheSony4KRises 05:26 AM 05-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The 130 is a very fine screen. I used one for many years. I was never bothered by any let's call it artifacting it did. I really never saw any artifacting. Unlike others, I don't spend my time looking for things.

For many years I have read about Studeotec or Snomatte 100. The pros use it, yada yada and I finally had a world class projector, the Sony VPL-vw1000ES with its 8 zillion pixels. And I was absolutely wowed by the picture on my 54 x 96 Studeotec 130.

I juxtaposed my self into a position where I could obtain a 54 x 96 piece of 100 for next to nothing. So I said what the hell.

It arrived punched for my existing 4 way electric masking fixed screen. I unsnapped the 130 and snapped in the 100. Man what a difference. The decrease in brightness was not really noticeable in 2D but was quite noticeable in 3D. But the image. Wow. It was like the screen was replaced by a look through the window with no glass in the window frame. The great picture I had before was replaced with a picture a whole order of magnitude better. Chris? You got that? Really. I couldn't believe how much better the image was. It was great before but now? Wow. I called Tom Huffman over and a local Widescreen Review reviewer who had seen my system with the Sony 1000 and the Stewart 130. They both kind of ridiculed me on the phone about how there could be that much of a difference. I said you have to see it. They both came over and verified my observations.

I offer no criticism of the 130. Its just that the 100 is better. It makes the screen drop out of the equation. You don't see it anymore. Things look more real.

But. Its not for large screens or for rooms that aren't black pits. You can't have it all, at least with the limited lumens out of the Sony. Bring it on with a really high quality light cannon from Sim2.But then you would have to give up the 4K.

Sim2 launch new 4K projector! The CINEMAQUATTRO. Yours for £160k
by Cinema Rooms on May 2nd, 2013

The Italian projector company are set to launch their first 4k projector named CinemaQuattro.

This 3 chip DLP 3D projector offers 4096 x 2160 resolution and 10,000 ANSI lumens.

Two other projectors have been launched the Super Lumis for £37,995. 3 chip DLP and 5,000 ANSI lumens.

The Sirio finishes off the line up retailing at a modest £19,995 and offers high brightness single chip projector and 6,000 ANSI lumens.

Call us for more details and to book a demonstration.

http://www.cinema-rooms.co.uk/sim2-launch-4k-projector-cinemaquattro-160k/
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 08:13 AM 05-04-2013
Subtracting out VAT and converting at $1.31 per Euro, we get a very modest and affordable for some $180,000 to $185,000. Without knowing anymore I would suspect its a rebranded Barco with Sim2 offering set up and expertise included in the asking price. But I don't know.
coolscan's Avatar coolscan 12:59 PM 05-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Subtracting out VAT and converting at $1.31 per Euro, we get a very nodest and affordable for some $180,000 to $185,000. Without knowing anymore I would suspect its a rebranded Barco with sim2 offering set up and expertise included in the asking price. But I don't know.
It is a re-branded Christie.
TheSony4KRises's Avatar TheSony4KRises 01:52 PM 05-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

It is a re-branded Christie.

When SIM2 decided to embark on the 4K challenge, it was clear that we had to offer a product with performance as close as possible to a true movie theater experience," stated Maurizio Cini President and CEO of SIM2 Multimedia. "Our collaboration with Christie assures that our Premiere Dealers will have access to the BEST 4K technology available today, and not a product that is "just" good enough because it is 4K resolution."

"Christie is very pleased to be working with a company of SIM2's caliber," said Jeff Jaramillo, Senior Director, Product Management at Christie. "Our companies complement each other well and the combination of technical and market experience certainly yield a high performance offering that delivers a stunning 4K option for the CEDIA community."

http://hometheaterreview.com/sim2-unveils-cinemaquattro-4k-dlp-projector/
d.j.'s Avatar d.j. 02:53 PM 05-05-2013
Have had a little time with a 4K PC with some materiel from Sony ( sadly NOT the server with the 10 movies, you can get in US frown.gif ) , Timescapes and Sintel to play with in the weekend.

And yes, Im not a Photo nerd redface.gif , I just holded the camera in my hands and pointed it at the screen ( (No image editing ), so the pictures do not give full justice to the actual viewed image on the screen - sorry , but hopefully it can give an idea !?

I used low lamp mode ( unless otherwise will be shown on the image ) on the projector and screen gain is about 0.95

Picture area for my screen = 279x 116 cm / 110"x46" - I used 3 Picture sizes for the photo´s :

93" diagonal in 16/9 which fits my 2.40:1 screen in the high,
126" diagonal 16/9 with spilover in top and bottom and fits the width of the screen
136" diagonal in 16/9 in 2.35 zoom mode which use the full panel but do not 1:1 pixel perfect, and spill over all the way around my screen.

93"


126"


And one very zoomed in on the Picture


This is taken few inches from the screen and 16x zoomed (can you find it on the normal size picture ? ...like find Holger smile.gif )


More later, there are to few Pictures in this tread biggrin.gif ( I know, you cant´ use them to judge the real Picture quality, but fun to look at IMO and can hopefully give a little impression of it !? )


dj
d.j.'s Avatar d.j. 03:04 PM 05-05-2013
Timescapes:

93"


126"


more.




And Sintel:



dj
joerod's Avatar joerod 06:40 AM 05-06-2013
Anyone going to "bite" soon and try any of the new "Mastered in 4K" titles coming out? I know it has that "Superbit" DVD feeling but I am curious to know if they will improve the image somewhat. Of course with the new Sony FMP-X1 coming is it worth getting them anyway?
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 07:18 AM 05-06-2013
Only if it comes out with the 5th Element so I can say I purchased and have every version of that film. DVD, DVD Superbit, 1st Bluray version screwed up in the making, second version of the Blueray. I have more versions than these too. I have never watched the whole thing, just test clips or frames.
Yzfbossman's Avatar Yzfbossman 03:04 PM 05-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Only if it comes out with the 5th Element so I can say I purchased and have every version of that film. DVD, DVD Superbit, 1st Bluray version screwed up in the making, second version of the Blueray. I have more versions than these too. I have never watched the whole thing, just test clips or frames.

LOL I'm in the same boat as you, I have each version too. But I have watched it....and like the movie. smile.gif
OzHDHT's Avatar OzHDHT 06:49 PM 05-06-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Anyone going to "bite" soon and try any of the new "Mastered in 4K" titles coming out? I know it has that "Superbit" DVD feeling but I am curious to know if they will improve the image somewhat. Of course with the new Sony FMP-X1 coming is it worth getting them anyway?


I feel the same way. But also it feels like the FMP-X1 is going to be here so soon, there almost won't much of a gap to even worry to much about the 'Mastered in 4K' titles. I really though they'd have made a solid effort to get the on shelves back in say Feb to perhaps semi-justify their existence. Also seems like only a few of the titles if any are outside what the FMP-X1 is going to be sold with. Kind of a puzzling strategy to me by Sony. I would normally go for a couple of these titles, but I really can't see myself bothering even though some of the older titles are cheap.
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 08:32 PM 05-06-2013
Screen decision is done:

140" Seymour/Screen Excellence Enlightor 4k in 2.37 ratio............................I agonized over which screen............I was leaning heavily towards 130", but succumbed to the bigger is better crowd. I do sit at 1.0 when at the theater, so I'll be ok.

AVS's very own Mike Garrett has been most helpful......................
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