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post #7651 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I must have missed that part, as I ran into my theater to measure 1.5 times my screen height as a seating distance and became concerned that I might kick my center channel diamond tweeter to the ceiling when I cross my legs from that distance...

Not sure what they are saying there. Perhaps native 4k? But scaled to 4k certainly benefits from FI...

That sounds like gobbledygook to deflect from not having FI to begin with...


Depending on certain other physical factors and parameters, one might damage their center channel if watching 4K porn at that distance.
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post #7652 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thrang, are you still having issues with audio on the 4K puck? I changed the setting to HDMI 2 in the software and it seems to be working fine with my Denon 4311. Shame there is no HD audio, I wonder if that will change with future releases.

Spiderman and Total Recall are impressive, very clean. So are some of the short videos like Eldorado. Some movies are hopeless like Ghostbusters, they must have used crap film stock for this movie.

I haven't tested directly in bat a week - still running the audio through a Lumagen. I didn't see a firmware update for the puck, so I presume no change.

Did you have problems and now it works? If so, what changed (firmware update on the Denon, or it just started to work?)

I know the Sony 4k site was down again for several hours a few days ago - while I seriously doubt it, perhaps there's something server side that could effect this issue that they fixed.

I'll try later
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post #7653 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Depending on certain other physical factors and parameters, one might damage their center channel if watchig 4K porn at that distance.

I just threw up in my mouth a little...
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post #7654 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 09:05 AM
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I don't know who's "right" here, or where this source data comes from, but this chart shows some different viewing distances:



Article:

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

Still, it says I should be 10' for full benefit...I cannot see that (no pun intended) being realistic for me.

When 8k comes, we will be three inches behind the screen
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post #7655 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I haven't tested directly in bat a week - still running the audio through a Lumagen. I didn't see a firmware update for the puck, so I presume no change.

Did you have problems and now it works? If so, what changed (firmware update on the Denon, or it just started to work?)

I know the Sony 4k site was down again for several hours a few days ago - while I seriously doubt it, perhaps there's something server side that could effect this issue that they fixed.

I'll try later

I only ran the first required update and then realized I had no sound when playing content, but it was only because I didn't set the HDMI 2 -> Audio in the android app. I also have a Pioneer SC-07 and SC-68 I'll try it with as well.

The last firmware update I did on the Denon was a year ago to enable Pandora, etc but haven't touched it since.
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post #7656 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I only ran the first required update and then realized I had no sound when playing content, but it was only because I didn't set the HDMI 2 -> Audio in the android app. I also have a Pioneer SC-07 and SC-68 I'll try it with as well.

The last firmware update I did on the Denon was a year ago to enable Pandora, etc but haven't touched it since.

Ok - yes, I've set and re-set the HDMI 2 audio out multiple times...

I've been told to try a CEC-less cable or adapter, so I have one on order (adapter). We'll see, but I think the puck is way to strict handshaking...
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post #7657 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 10:11 AM
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Some first impressions on the 4K media device - I was watching scenes from Spiderman, Total recall and yes I can't believe I watched a few scenes, but 'That's my Boy' looked incredibly clean as well.

So others understand, this isn't all about sharpness. There's already a number of ways to sharpen the heck out of upscaled BD content that may or may not add to actual PQ. This is about a very clean representation of the source material with no distracting issues like visible noise in the background. Think Oblivion which is one of the cleanest BD releases available right. I would love to see this in native 4K since it was shot on the Sony F65.

The best way to describe is it that is appears very analog yet is still sharp and detailed. I would equate it to watching good 70mm content like the IMAX scenes in the Batman series.

of course there are bombs like Ghostbusters which would not be worth the $30 fee since the 4K preview looks as bad as the remaster in 4K disks, it must have been terrible film stock they used.

If they can do the same for 4K BD, I would be sold if it looked this good with no further improvements. The content here that comes from a good source looks excellent IMO.
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post #7658 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 11:00 AM
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Do you have any of those titles in BD Mi4K to perform an A/B test? I'd be interested to hear if/how much better the native low-def 4K from the puck looks verses upscaled Mi4K BDs.

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post #7659 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Some first impressions on the 4K media device

So others understand, this isn't all about sharpness. There's already a number of ways to sharpen the heck out of upscaled BD content that may or may not add to actual PQ. This is about a very clean representation of the source material with no distracting issues like visible noise in the background. Think Oblivion which is one of the cleanest BD releases available right. I would love to see this in native 4K since it was shot on the Sony F65.

.

Whilst the live footage in Oblivion was shot in native 4K the entire movie was mastered in 2K to accomodate the VFX.

It looks as good as it ever will on your 1000es.

The same issue afflicts most VFX heavy flicks(Lord Of The Rings,The Matrix ect ect)
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post #7660 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 11:18 AM
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SC ROM Version SC1:01.07/SC2:01.03
NVM Version 02 / 01.06
Sub ROM Version 01.00
IP ROM Version 01.03
DE ROM Version 01.02

My unit was labeled as VPL-VW1000ES2 and my serial number is 11100XX

I'll post back later with DFI impressions, but I run low lamp so may not like the loss. I'll also try with lamp in high mode to help compensate.

I just finished setting up my replacement VPL-VW1000ES2 (lens cover door issue) and noted the following firmware (the replacement has similar convergence, 0 Blue, minor adjustments Red):

SC ROM Version SC1:01.08/SC2:01.04
NVM Version 02 / 01.07
Sub ROM Version 01.00
IP ROM Version 01.03
DE ROM Version 01.03

I now see a Test on/off feature under RC. I find it handy to compare any changes in RC. It's a little cumbersome because it cycles between on and off only and rather quickly. You have to go back make any adjustment and then compare again. Tedious, but better than nothing and helpful in eventually figuring out what's a good setting for RC. Of course, that still may end up being source dependent.

I also took Lux readings using my meter with only an hour on the lamp (Reference 1, IRIS off, D65, BT.709, Bright 50, Contrast Max). Lamp in High mode is 500 Lux (46.45 lumen/sq ft) at the screen which is just over 15 feet away from the Sony lens. I sit around 8 feet from the screen which is a 136" diagonal Carada BW 2.35:1. I watch in Low mode which measured 349 lux (32.33 lumen).

I forgot to measure FI film (black frame insertion), but will do so later and edit this post.

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post #7661 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 11:54 AM
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a quick observation with RC in UHD mode on the 600 vs 1000, they appear similar in that the changes are very subtle. The real benefit of the RC in the 600 is that it does a great job with 1080P content vs. the 1000.

I still think this could have been adjusted in a firmware update. Just turn down the aggressiveness of the processing at the minimum setting.
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post #7662 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I don't know who's "right" here, or where this source data comes from, but this chart shows some different viewing distances:



Article:

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

Still, it says I should be 10' for full benefit...I cannot see that (no pun intended) being realistic for me.

When 8k comes, we will be three inches behind the screen

Yes, I think that's correct, i.e., ~ 10 ft or so for a ~144" diag screen.
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post #7663 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 12:32 PM
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Yes, I think that's correct, i.e., ~ 10 ft or so for a ~144" diag screen.

Well, that's for a 160" diagonal screen...10 feet...
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post #7664 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Well, that's for a 160" diagonal screen...10 feet...
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Well, that's for a 160" diagonal screen...10 feet...

That does seem a bit close. It's hard to extrapolate the graph that you showed, but it looks like the 'full benefit' of 4K for a 160'' diag screen is realized for a viewing distance of ~ 11 to 12 ft, a bit more that 10. My screen is 144" wide for 2.35 pics, and I sit ~ 11 ft away. But everyone has their own preferences.
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post #7665 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 02:04 PM
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I sit 12'4" back from a 161" x 68" screen. Seems about perfect to me! smile.gif
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post #7666 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I haven't tested directly in bat a week - still running the audio through a Lumagen. I didn't see a firmware update for the puck, so I presume no change.

Did you have problems and now it works? If so, what changed (firmware update on the Denon, or it just started to work?)

I know the Sony 4k site was down again for several hours a few days ago - while I seriously doubt it, perhaps there's something server side that could effect this issue that they fixed.

I'll try later

There was another update for the puck that came down when I got home yesterday. I don't know what it had in it. I had probs since Thurs with the 4K store as well. In the end I uninstalled the remote app and reinstalled and voila it was back up, was a bit updated in the way it looked, easier to see the newer titles, like Evil Dead displayed. I notice the app auto updated itself last week as well, so that was perhaps what lead to my store connection issue.

I'm having absolutely no issue with the HDMI 2 into the Denon 4520, works without a hitch. Retiring my long serving Rotel 1085 and Meridian 599 amps today as I just bought myself an Anthem P5 to power my Revels.

Watched Elysium last night. Def the best looking release I've seen so far. A heap of detail, vivid colours. The scene of the off world colony were quite stunning. Pity as a film it's about as lackluster as I expected it to be from the reviews. I think I'll sit back and check out 4K Lawrence over the Christmas period. Very much like the 4K preview concept on the puck, who wants to pay for a title only to find it's an ordinary quality transfer. I've got a few queued to download.

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post #7667 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 03:43 PM
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Is there a way we can see a list of all the films available online? If not, what are 3 or 4 of the newest and best titles available?
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post #7668 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

There was another update for the puck that came down when I got home yesterday. I don't know what it had in it. I had probs since Thurs with the 4K store as well. In the end I uninstalled the remote app and reinstalled and voila it was back up, was a bit updated in the way it looked, easier to see the newer titles, like Evil Dead displayed. I notice the app auto updated itself last week as well, so that was perhaps what lead to my store connection issue.

I'm having absolutely no issue with the HDMI 2 into the Denon 4520, works without a hitch. Retiring my long serving Rotel 1085 and Meridian 599 amps today as I just bought myself an Anthem P5 to power my Revels.

Watched Elysium last night. Def the best looking release I've seen so far. A heap of detail, vivid colours. The scene of the off world colony were quite stunning. Pity as a film it's about as lackluster as I expected it to be from the reviews. I think I'll sit back and check out 4K Lawrence over the Christmas period. Very much like the 4K preview concept on the puck, who wants to pay for a title only to find it's an ordinary quality transfer. I've got a few queued to download.

I just downloaded the latest update..after reboot, it seems the Sony service is down again.

Heading out now, will try hooking up HDMI 2 directly to my processor later to see if the update made a change...
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post #7669 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 04:17 PM
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I just downloaded the latest update..after reboot, it seems the Sony service is down again.

Heading out now, will try hooking up HDMI 2 directly to my processor later to see if the update made a change...

Just checked - no difference with the latest FMP update re: audio on HDMI 2
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post #7670 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 04:44 PM
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Just checked - no difference with the latest FMP update re: audio on HDMI 2

Bummer. Wonder what it is that's making it so diff with the MX? Hope they sort it soon. Ironically I was starting to get itchy about trying a MX151 myself a couple of months ago. But then got cold feet with the video pass through aspect and it's impact down the track as more 4K sources begin to emerge. Although with that said, I'll likely more be relying on a Lumagen to completely bypass any reliance on the pre/pro itself as I'm doing now when playing X1 ironically.. I wouldn't have ever suspected an audio issue like the to creep in with HDMI and the MX151. If it gets sorted soon, I may look at one for the new year as the reports of sonic prowess by yourself and others who have graduated from identical gear to me(Integra/Denon) are seriously impressive. Are you able to extract the audio via something like a hdmi to coax converter at all? Not an ideal fix, but perhaps a stop gap given the X1's not putting out that greater a class of digital audio right now.

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post #7671 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

Bummer. Wonder what it is that's making it so diff with the MX? Hope they sort it soon. Ironically I was starting to get itchy about trying a MX151 myself a couple of months ago. But then got cold feet with the video pass through aspect and it's impact down the track as more 4K sources begin to emerge. Although with that said, I'll likely more be relying on a Lumagen to completely bypass any reliance on the pre/pro itself as I'm doing now when playing X1 ironically.. I wouldn't have ever suspected an audio issue like the to creep in with HDMI and the MX151. If it gets sorted soon, I may look at one for the new year as the reports of sonic prowess by yourself and others who have graduated from identical gear to me(Integra/Denon) are seriously impressive. Are you able to extract the audio via something like a hdmi to coax converter at all? Not an ideal fix, but perhaps a stop gap given the X1's not putting out that greater a class of digital audio right now.

I don't know for certain, but my understanding is this issue is not limited to just the McIntosh, but time will tell once all the kits are installed...

I am passing the audio through a Lumagen, then to the MX, and that works.
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post #7672 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


That does seem a bit close. It's hard to extrapolate the graph that you showed, but it looks like the 'full benefit' of 4K for a 160'' diag screen is realized for a viewing distance of ~ 11 to 12 ft, a bit more that 10. My screen is 144" wide for 2.35 pics, and I sit ~ 11 ft away. But everyone has their own preferences.

If you visit the link included along with the graph, there is a calculator which you can punch in the values to see the optimal distance for each resolution - that's were the 10' comes from.
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post #7673 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I don't know who's "right" here, or where this source data comes from, but this chart shows some different viewing distances:



Article:

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

Still, it says I should be 10' for full benefit...I cannot see that (no pun intended) being realistic for me.

When 8k comes, we will be three inches behind the screen
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post

I'm about 12' feet back from my 133" diagonal 16X9 1.3 gain Screen, and it is just fine. 3D movies really look great at that distance.
It seems like various sites / people have their idea of what the perfect distance should be from the screen.
I think that it boils down to personal preference. Not everyone sees or perceives the same. What looks good to one person, may not look good to another.
The formula might be a good starting point, but it is not etched in stone. Just set your seating up where the view looks good to you.


Thanks for the reassurance and advice. Its a novel approach. smile.gif

Obviously one can sit where they like if they have the physical layout options. It really doesn't matter what some one else likes or prefers.

What is interesting here is that Sony makes the specific recommendation of 1.5 picture heights (PH) for maximum immersion and bases it on viewing angles, pixel resolution of the average eye, pixels taken in by the eye etc etc. Its based on science just like SMPTE recommendations.

From the calculator, the multiplier is about 1.6 times the picture height assuming 20/20 vision. I need to run it putting vision worse than 20/20.

I just got home from 12 days of solid install with a trip home of 300 miles. i'll catch up on the posts tomorrow. Back to the install on Thursday.

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post #7674 of 10568 Old 12-22-2013, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


I don't know for certain, but my understanding is this issue is not limited to just the McIntosh, but time will tell once all the kits are installed...

I am passing the audio through a Lumagen, then to the MX, and that works.

Yeah I do remember you mentioned running it that way now. Hopefully it gets sorted. I started looking again at mx151 locally. Man we get ripped on the Mc products here. I will have to find a very friendly dealer to go with one I think.

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post #7675 of 10568 Old 12-23-2013, 12:00 AM
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Exactly. I agree 100%.
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post #7676 of 10568 Old 12-23-2013, 02:52 AM
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It's a 9 pin serial cable that is specifically called a null adapter. The internal wiring is different from a regular 9 pin serial cable.
I just see that I need a RS232 port on my PC for this right? If so, I don t have that
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post #7677 of 10568 Old 12-23-2013, 07:27 AM
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It depends if you need to use the RS 232 connection. Its used for controlling the projector from an automation system such as crestron etc I believe. There are lots of USM to serial out there, just be sure to use a null modem cable from there. Basicall the pins at each end do not correspond one to one. Diagrams on the internet abound.

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post #7678 of 10568 Old 12-23-2013, 07:36 AM
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Projector log in update:

(case sensitive)
name: root
password: Projector

And I still can only get IE under Windows XP (virtual machine on 7 works) to reliably log in and navigate. So they did not update any of this code, as this was the same problem with the 1000.
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post #7679 of 10568 Old 12-23-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Some first impressions on the 4K media device - I was watching scenes from Spiderman, Total recall and yes I can't believe I watched a few scenes, but 'That's my Boy' looked incredibly clean as well.

So others understand, this isn't all about sharpness. There's already a number of ways to sharpen the heck out of upscaled BD content that may or may not add to actual PQ. This is about a very clean representation of the source material with no distracting issues like visible noise in the background. Think Oblivion which is one of the cleanest BD releases available right. I would love to see this in native 4K since it was shot on the Sony F65.

The best way to describe is it that is appears very analog yet is still sharp and detailed. I would equate it to watching good 70mm content like the IMAX scenes in the Batman series.

of course there are bombs like Ghostbusters which would not be worth the $30 fee since the 4K preview looks as bad as the remaster in 4K disks, it must have been terrible film stock they used.

If they can do the same for 4K BD, I would be sold if it looked this good with no further improvements. The content here that comes from a good source looks excellent IMO.

Generally agree, though I would hope they could do better with 4k Blu Ray. Less compression and deeper color is where one might hope for such advances in authoring and delivery, with the greater storage space and no bandwidth restrictions of physical media.
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post #7680 of 10568 Old 12-23-2013, 12:49 PM
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Might improve, will improve, when the new codec gets sorted out and if they use it.

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