Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 262 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #7831 of 10190 Old 12-30-2013, 09:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 261
that's good you got it working. Check out the 3 min demo of 'Into Saturn's Rings' when you get a chance.
zombie10k is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #7832 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 12:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
stevenjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: DC Metro area USA
Posts: 2,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

I also took Lux readings using my meter with only an hour on the lamp (Reference 1, IRIS off, D65, BT.709, Bright 50, Contrast Max). Lamp in High mode is 500 Lux (46.45 lumen/sq ft) at the screen which is just over 15 feet away from the Sony lens. I sit around 8 feet from the screen which is a 136" diagonal Carada BW 2.35:1. I watch in Low mode which measured 349 lux (32.33 lumen).

I forgot to measure FI film (black frame insertion), but will do so later and edit this post.

At 57 hours, high lamp is 480 and low is 340 with same settings. So far, so good at about a 3-4% drop after 56 hours. I guess that might mean a 30-40% drop after 560 hours. We'll see how linear it tracks. Hopefully it'll level off at some point too.

I also measured with Motionflow Film Projection On and got 318 in high ans 219 in low. I don't use FP (black frame insertion), but apparently it's all we get with 4K and someone (I forget who - SanderDVD?) was curious if it dropped off a lot. I'm seeing about a 35% dropoff on a static field.

...Steve
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." - V

 


My 3D-BD/BD/HD-DVD/DVD collection and HT gear

stevenjw is offline  
post #7833 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 03:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Grifo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Italy
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
anyway 1100 has just landed here in Italy.
The seller says it has Reality Creation 2
and is much better than 500 concerning
contrast and detail...
Grifo is offline  
post #7834 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 05:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

that's good you got it working. Check out the 3 min demo of 'Into Saturn's Rings' when you get a chance.

I have, it's one of the better ones. Some of the nature ones have their moments, but there are a few too many soft or washed out shots in them

The Jimmy Kimmel music segment (don't remember the band) is pretty sharp, and there is a film based music video of some singer with kids eating donuts at a table that is very crisp.

I didn't mind Battle:Los Angeles and Total Recall, though the effects look soft...
thrang is offline  
post #7835 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 05:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Same on my job. Get the same message as Thrang.

Thrang. What are you outputing resolution wise now on your Lumagen 2041 after the factory reset?

Right now, I'm not getting the Chris Matthews thrill up my leg with the 20xx series as I had hoped. It's inability to output 4k60 incoming signals is a large issue for using it for a lot of broadcast. I find that for film based material on Directv, I can set it to output 4k 24 and it seems to properly recognize the original cadence. But it is comical to try and watch 60hz material at 4k30, sort of a micro-jittery sense of movement, and 720p60 content does not fair well.

It does an excellent job with 23hz content, but the scaling differences vs the 1100 are subtle in my testing so far.

The Lumagen still has great value for its gamma/greyscale, and updated CMS capabilities, and it solves hdmi issues for me that I could not live without right now.

I hope there is a way they can upgrade the unit to properly scale 1080i/p 60 to 4k60. So for now, I am only outputting 1080p from the 2041 for broadcast.

Perhaps there's a setting I'm missing, but that's an interim update...
thrang is offline  
post #7836 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 09:30 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 318
Just to clarify for other readers, in your second sentence you are criticizing not the inability to input 4K but the inability to output 4K above 30 (due to chip bandwidth limitations) so that lower resolution input sources (i.e., 720p 60, 1080i/p 60) can be output at UHD/4K 60. I expect when the next generation of Lumagens comes out (after production quantities of wider band width chips come out) , this will be rectified with a generous trade in for 2041 and 2042 owners.

I agree with your assessment.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #7837 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 10:15 AM
Senior Member
 
howdydoody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas / Ft Worth
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So, to clarify for those of us that contacted our dealer immediately after upgrade was announced, we won't be getting the ten free movies?
howdydoody is offline  
post #7838 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 10:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Just to clarify for other readers, in your second sentence you are criticizing not the inability to input 4K but the inability to output 4K above 30 (due to chip bandwidth limitations) so that lower resolution input sources (i.e., 720p 60, 1080i/p 60) can be output at UHD/4K 60. I expect when the next generation of Lumagens comes out (after production quantities of wider band width chips come out) , this will be rectified with a generous trade in for 2041 and 2042 owners.

I agree with your assessment.

Yes, though I wouldn't even say criticizing Lumagen - it's more shame on me for not catching that published spec.
thrang is offline  
post #7839 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 10:39 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 318
I am not criticizing Lumagen either. Its a realization that 4K 60 out is needed and it can't be done until chips become available. I didn't realize that 4K 60 was available but I should have known that because of the unavailability of chips. The Sony server can only output UHD at 24 or 30 also.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #7840 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 10:42 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 7,200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by howdydoody View Post

So, to clarify for those of us that contacted our dealer immediately after upgrade was announced, we won't be getting the ten free movies?

It is not looking that way. Sony has barely started shipping these with just a few on their way to us.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com

Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/

 

Call for B-stock projectors

Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI & many more.
Klipsch, RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Technology, MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech.

AV Science Sales 5 is offline  
post #7841 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 11:05 AM
Member
 
KRGM1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So the people fortunate enough to get the earlier appointments for the upgrade get the 10 free movies and the rest of us are left in the cold. Seems about right.
KRGM1 is offline  
post #7842 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 11:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 318
You won't be left out in the cold.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #7843 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 09:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


The Jimmy Kimmel music segment (don't remember the band) is pretty sharp, and there is a film based music video of some singer with kids eating donuts at a table that is very crisp.

This concert looks amazing.. wow. There is a lot of detail and great color in this clip.

now I want a 4K camera... smile.gif
zombie10k is online now  
post #7844 of 10190 Old 12-31-2013, 09:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

This concert looks amazing.. wow. There is a lot of detail and great color in this clip.

now I want a 4K camera... smile.gif

Zombie and Oz, since you have FMP's...

Any luck connecting an external hard drive? I just tried a 3tb high speed external USB, and nothing happens - no acknowledgment of a connect drive, no formatting options...

Tested the drive on both mac and pc, and it comes up fine...

And Happy New Year to all here...
thrang is offline  
post #7845 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 04:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Grifo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Italy
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Happy new year!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Grifo is offline  
post #7846 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 06:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,562
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

This concert looks amazing.. wow. There is a lot of detail and great color in this clip.

now I want a 4K camera... smile.gif

I was seriously thinking about the new Sony 4k camera, but its just too big to lug around to everything I would want to film (kids sports, events, etc).

For those that know about the quality of imaging devices, sensors, etc.... is it likely we will see truly great quality 4k cameras in the sizes we get 1080p cameras now? I am sure they will get smaller, but people already complain that the 4k imaging chip isnt large ENOUGH right now for great low light capability even with the size of the current "consumer" 4k camcorders, so making them smaller is only going to compromise that, I assume.

Do you guys think we will be "stuck" with fairly large cameras if we want great 4k quality from both the lens and sensor?

Sony could release a cheaper one without the huge boom mic / viewfinder / LCD apparatus and integrate that more on the body. That would help. I'm sure that would be a step backwards for real filmmakers, but I think taking video as just a parent at an event with one of these things would be embarrassing, if not at least pretentious. smile.gif
hifiaudio2 is offline  
post #7847 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 06:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I was seriously thinking about the new Sony 4k camera, but its just too big to lug around to everything I would want to film (kids sports, events, etc).

For those that know about the quality of imaging devices, sensors, etc.... is it likely we will see truly great quality 4k cameras in the sizes we get 1080p cameras now? I am sure they will get smaller, but people already complain that the 4k imaging chip isnt large ENOUGH right now for great low light capability even with the size of the current "consumer" 4k camcorders, so making them smaller is only going to compromise that, I assume.

Do you guys think we will be "stuck" with fairly large cameras if we want great 4k quality from both the lens and sensor?

Sony could release a cheaper one without the huge boom mic / viewfinder / LCD apparatus and integrate that more on the body. That would help. I'm sure that would be a step backwards for real filmmakers, but I think taking video as just a parent at an event with one of these things would be embarrassing, if not at least pretentious. smile.gif

The lenses are also a factor in 4k capture - even today, the best digital images are captured with full sized SLR styled cameras with large quality glass...so you will definitely see smaller "4k" cameras as the consumer market dictates, but there will be quality compromises, Just like the FMP online delivery concept.
thrang is offline  
post #7848 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 06:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,562
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Yeah I have a full frame DSLR and some good lenses, but even those are dwarfed by this camcorder, unless the pics are tricking me into thinking its bigger than it is. I guess I am just mostly wondering if its size is a necessary component of the quality its trying to achieve, or more because it it s a first gen device. Or even if its because its aimed at a filmmaker that doesn't need it any smaller.
hifiaudio2 is offline  
post #7849 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 02:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Yeah I have a full frame DSLR and some good lenses, but even those are dwarfed by this camcorder, unless the pics are tricking me into thinking its bigger than it is. I guess I am just mostly wondering if its size is a necessary component of the quality its trying to achieve, or more because it it s a first gen device. Or even if its because its aimed at a filmmaker that doesn't need it any smaller.

Here's a nice cat scan view...

thrang is offline  
post #7850 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 140
That image makes me want to run out and buy something I really don't need. Sony is sure good at that :P


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #7851 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
OzHDHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Antipodes aka Oz
Posts: 1,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Tried again, no difference. Then tried a third time, first using the app to shut down the FMP and quit the software, then deleted and reinstalled. Manually turned the FMP on, reinstalled the app, and the store returned...thanks Oz

No probs. Glad it worked. I found also with the app, unlike with IOS, when deleted into the trash, you still get the option to uninstall when you get to the Play store to re-download it. I've made sure to hit that option first, then done the re-install from there. Fortunately I only encountered that error the once, hopefully it never comes back. Also another tip, if you ever run into the E4400 connection error with downloads, close the app fully, power down the FMP manually, then restart the app. It happens to me when I've got several movies queued to download across a few days.

OzHDHT is offline  
post #7852 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 04:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

No probs. Glad it worked. I found also with the app, unlike with IOS, when deleted into the trash, you still get the option to uninstall when you get to the Play store to re-download it. I've made sure to hit that option first, then done the re-install from there. Fortunately I only encountered that error the once, hopefully it never comes back. Also another tip, if you ever run into the E4400 connection error with downloads, close the app fully, power down the FMP manually, then restart the app. It happens to me when I've got several movies queued to download across a few days.
Now I'm trying to add an external drive. Anything over 2 TB seems not to be recognized; 1tb is recognized, I'm given the option to format, but when it's done, the app simply reports the drive is ready to format again and is not used..

Apple, please release a 4k ATV already so things just work....
thrang is offline  
post #7853 of 10190 Old 01-01-2014, 04:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
OzHDHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Antipodes aka Oz
Posts: 1,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


Now I'm trying to add an external drive. Anything over 2 TB seems not to be recognized; 1tb is recognized, I'm given the option to format, but when it's done, the app simply reports the drive is ready to format again and is not used..

Apple, please release a 4k ATV already so things just work....

I have brand new 1TB Toshiba drive attached. It doesn't seem to be recognised so far at all. I even re-formatted it myself to FAT32. I haven't wanted to play around too much with external drives whilst still downloading movies as the FMP seems to be a bit temperamental when you start doing things to mid download. I will have a try again tomorrow. Will try some other brands of drives as well and see what I can learn.

+1, ATV's just plain work. Wondering how that little ATV lookalike Nuvola 4K player will go when they get released shortly...

OzHDHT is offline  
post #7854 of 10190 Old 01-02-2014, 06:31 AM
Member
 
KRGM1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

At 57 hours, high lamp is 480 and low is 340 with same settings. So far, so good at about a 3-4% drop after 56 hours. I guess that might mean a 30-40% drop after 560 hours. We'll see how linear it tracks. Hopefully it'll level off at some point too.

I also measured with Motionflow Film Projection On and got 318 in high ans 219 in low. I don't use FP (black frame insertion), but apparently it's all we get with 4K and someone (I forget who - SanderDVD?) was curious if it dropped off a lot. I'm seeing about a 35% dropoff on a static field.

I measured my lamp at 0 hours and again at 66 hours in high lamp and there was no change that I could measure with my CA813.
KRGM1 is offline  
post #7855 of 10190 Old 01-02-2014, 06:56 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Mark_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRGM1 View Post

I measured my lamp at 0 hours and again at 66 hours in high lamp and there was no change that I could measure with my CA813.

Did you have the CA813 turned on? I find this result rather hard to believe...

My cinema: The Cave!

My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, Sony vw1000es, Lumagen 2144, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500

Mark_H is offline  
post #7856 of 10190 Old 01-02-2014, 07:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
thrang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,125
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_H View Post

Did you have the CA813 turned on? I find this result rather hard to believe...

Zero point zero...

thrang is offline  
post #7857 of 10190 Old 01-02-2014, 07:51 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 318
Thrang. When I saw the internal view of the camera, I thought was the use of the word schematic appropriate. I actually looked the definition up and I do think it was appropriate though I think the edit is a better description. Maybe no cat scan but xray Man I hope the updates come soon so we have something more to talk about. I have been home four days now and have not even turned my projector on. Football over the weekend for sure fed 1080p 60 out of the Lumagen.

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #7858 of 10190 Old 01-02-2014, 08:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,562
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Here's a nice cat scan view...


Good pic. Looks like they could definitely eliminate the front hood and pretty much everything attached the the handle up top, integrating the LCD and viewfinder into the body like other camcorders and going back to an internal, inferior mic. Should get the whole thing back to being on par with a larger 1080p camcorder with no or very little loss of image fidelity. Those that need the better mic could still have a mic jack for an external.

OK I will quit designing camcorders for Sony in the vw1000 thread now. smile.gif
hifiaudio2 is offline  
post #7859 of 10190 Old 01-02-2014, 08:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
turls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Central IL
Posts: 4,555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 32
I've ended up with quite a collection of Mastered in 4k Blu-rays with all the holiday sales. Even Smurfs 2, although only for the 2D version. Starting to look like many newer Sony releases are Mi4k, but what I don't get is how they did all the re-releases without extras, but now they admit they can do extras, since all the new releases include them. Why would they want to open themselves up to the criticism?

At this point with my backlog I probably will wait for the magic of the 1100 upgrade to play any of these, so I get the full effect.

Matt
turls is offline  
post #7860 of 10190 Old 01-02-2014, 08:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
hifiaudio2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,562
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Been a while since I thought about the mi4k titles. I forget, do they require a specific or special Blu Ray player as well for the "special" color? Must it be a Sony, or do Oppo players work, etc?
hifiaudio2 is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector , Casio Rs 232 Adapter Catalog Category Projectors Accessories
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off