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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Sony VPL-vw1000
BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT 11:58 AM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
I am still waiting for our buddy Ben to post a shot of the new board.

Me Too!

BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT 12:11 PM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls
Other threads with lower post counts couldn't take all the Off topic banter.

Guess the current bit of banter patter will get a bit of response from him again..... Sorry turls
G-Rex's Avatar G-Rex 12:43 PM 01-19-2014
Sony/Amy said the 1000 would be upgradable to the future 4k standard. Do many of you believe those comments made in her video merely applied to 4k PC demo material and to the short lived 4k Sony Puck which will have a crazy short lifespan? (research how the VUDU box download model went). I, as many I am sure, took it to mean apllicable to the 4k BD standard. This is when the standard will really roll out. The download model will likely end up a test the waters...beta testing thing. I really hope they are doing the upgrade with an eye on the new 4k players coming. Maybe with the formalizing of the 4K BD standard they realized the upgrade would be truly lacking. Here is to hoping!

I get it, the upgrade has to stop somewhere.....but the problem is 4K sources really aren't even here yet and the 4k BD players are around the corner. To launch them with crippled compatibility to the 1100 (which is a soon to be released current model) would be very short sighted. Are we asking too much that our upgraded 1000s are for the most part compatible with future 4K players...I don't think so. If the all the software, panels, and tech around the 1100 can take advantage of the 18 gbps chip then launching early with the 10.2 gb chip should be the last thing on their mind.

Hopefully Sony recognized this and are making appropriate changes. I for one, would not be complacent with merely 4k Puck download compatibility and only "basic" 4k BD player compatibility with this nearly $30,000 projector. This is surely not what Amy meant when she said it was fully upgradable/futureproof to 4k. If Sony launches the upgrade with appropriate 4K BD compatibility...then I may not upgrade my projector quite as fast but being a happy Sony customer I will certainly order a new 65" 950 series fald display (and pass on the new Vizio Reference 10 bit line wink.gif). Happy customers will spend $$$ on Sony products in other ways.

Does anyone even know if the 18GB chips even exist yet? If not how close are they to manufacture?

Some of you have speculated that maybe Sony is considering a price increase due to a loss on each upgrade. Hypothetically, if Sony decided to delay the upgrade by 4-6 months and added $500 to the cost of the upgrade (research and development along with lost revenues for us holding onto our projectors for a longer period of time).... would you guys be for it? I would feel better spending $3000 for an 18 GB upgrade than $2500 for the 10.2 GB upgrade, which will be obsolete in the near future. If there are 2 upgrades in order to get us to 18 surely the total cost will exceed $3000.
BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT 01:01 PM 01-19-2014
I would not have a problem waiting for the 18GB version main board if that is what Sony is planing to do.
I enjoy all of the up scaled programs and BR movies I watch now.
But I think if you don't sign up for the purposed upgrade by March? was it?, and the version 2 of the upgrade occurs later this year, you might not be able to sign up for it then.
If the upgrade occurs later on this year like 3rd / 4th quarter, perhaps we will get the later version of the server!biggrin.gif
millerwill's Avatar millerwill 02:36 PM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

For those who have already purchased the 1000ES, most owning for about 2 years now, it was compelling. I can't imaging not of having the machine for the last two years and not having a 4K machine until the price drops tp present 1080p projector prices in the say under $6K street price class. To each his own, unfortunately often dictated by economics rather a freedom of choice.

So true, Mark. I'm in for the upgrade, whatever it is, but frankly may never plug in the 'puck'. I'm very pleased just having the 1000ES (to be 1100) upconvert HDTV and BD's. I will, though, jump on a 4K BD when/if one comes out.
hermosa's Avatar hermosa 02:44 PM 01-19-2014
The puck does have free movies and video clips. Worth plugging it in for that. Hopefully the puck with the upgrade will still have them.
discodol's Avatar discodol 03:47 PM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

send me the motherboard and software, I could do this in my sleep. people in the tri-state area can come by with their 1000's and we'll take some of the load off the Sony techs.... biggrin.gif


edit: here is the training video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljxJh3qNWms

Thanks for posting the link!

If this is really how they are being trained they have completely missed the boat with regards to ESD(electrostatic discharge). Before the tech touches your board they should be employing techniques similar too what you see here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNahnyx9OWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRwgo9vSHoY

If not static discharge could easily cause damage to chips on the board that unfortunately may not show up immediately.

Then all of a sudden you start to have problems weeks or months later that were caused by a static discharge that occured during the upgrade that will require that the board be changed again. mad.gif

That is not a merry go around I want to get on.
thrang's Avatar thrang 04:05 PM 01-19-2014
There is a ceremony performed before the actual board swap not shown in the video...


discodol's Avatar discodol 05:00 PM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

There is a ceremony performed before the actual board swap not shown in the video...


I guess I'm going to have to start practicing my mantra!!
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 05:08 PM 01-19-2014
A Telsa coil would have been more spectacular than a rather small Van de graaff generator. Actually built these when I was a kid.
thrang's Avatar thrang 05:35 PM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

A Telsa coil would have been more spectacular than a rather small Van de graaff generator. Actually built these when I was a kid.

THAT explains it....
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 05:52 PM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

Sony/Amy said the 1000 would be upgradable to the future 4k standard. Do many of you believe those comments made in her video merely applied to 4k PC demo material and to the short lived 4k Sony Puck which will have a crazy short lifespan? (research how the VUDU box download model went). I, as many I am sure, took it to mean apllicable to the 4k BD standard. This is when the standard will really roll out. The download model will likely end up a test the waters...beta testing thing. I really hope they are doing the upgrade with an eye on the new 4k players coming. Maybe with the formalizing of the 4K BD standard they realized the upgrade would be truly lacking. Here is to hoping!

I get it, the upgrade has to stop somewhere.....but the problem is 4K sources really aren't even here yet and the 4k BD players are around the corner. To launch them with crippled compatibility to the 1100 (which is a soon to be released current model) would be very short sighted. Are we asking too much that our upgraded 1000s are for the most part compatible with future 4K players...I don't think so. If the all the software, panels, and tech around the 1100 can take advantage of the 18 gbps chip then launching early with the 10.2 gb chip should be the last thing on their mind.

Hopefully Sony recognized this and are making appropriate changes. I for one, would not be complacent with merely 4k Puck download compatibility and only "basic" 4k BD player compatibility with this nearly $30,000 projector. This is surely not what Amy meant when she said it was fully upgradable/futureproof to 4k. If Sony launches the upgrade with appropriate 4K BD compatibility...then I may not upgrade my projector quite as fast but being a happy Sony customer I will certainly order a new 65" 950 series fald display (and pass on the new Vizio Reference 10 bit line wink.gif). Happy customers will spend $$$ on Sony products in other ways.

Does anyone even know if the 18GB chips even exist yet? If not how close are they to manufacture?

Some of you have speculated that maybe Sony is considering a price increase due to a loss on each upgrade. Hypothetically, if Sony decided to delay the upgrade by 4-6 months and added $500 to the cost of the upgrade (research and development along with lost revenues for us holding onto our projectors for a longer period of time).... would you guys be for it? I would feel better spending $3000 for an 18 GB upgrade than $2500 for the 10.2 GB upgrade, which will be obsolete in the near future. If there are 2 upgrades in order to get us to 18 surely the total cost will exceed $3000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post

I would not have a problem waiting for the 18GB version main board if that is what Sony is planing to do.
I enjoy all of the up scaled programs and BR movies I watch now.
But I think if you don't sign up for the purposed upgrade by March? was it?, and the version 2 of the upgrade occurs later this year, you might not be able to sign up for it then.
If the upgrade occurs later on this year like 3rd / 4th quarter, perhaps we will get the later version of the server!biggrin.gif

People are making the assumption that the 10.2 chips will not be able to play the full 4K BD standard when the new 4K BD's come out. That may not be a safe assumption. I think Sony has enough pull to make the new 4K BD standard what ever they want it to be. Also if the 4K BD's look as good as some of the shorts on the puck, then I will be happy with 4K BD. smile.gif
BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT 08:06 PM 01-19-2014
What you show is a Telsa coil. The discharge ball is standing on an insulator.
A Van de graaff generator uses a hollow ball at the top where the belt runs into it with a pickup comb inside, and no need for a high voltage transformer in the foreground.
The coil is picking up a reflection somewhere, perhaps off of the black neon sign transformer in front of it which would account for the vertical black stripe on the red enamel windings on the coil form.

This is a Van De Graaff generator...

mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 08:13 PM 01-19-2014
The whole problem is that we don't know what will be the operative 4K bluray standard, what a projector would have to have inside to play it, and when the standard will happen, machines be available, and some discs be available. It would be a shame if Sony forced a dumbing down of the standard from what is possible because of its rush to market with 10.2 GBS chip. Sure, 10.2 chips might be enough, but that would be a poor result for the future of 4K.
Ben Withrow's Avatar Ben Withrow 08:22 PM 01-19-2014



BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT 08:48 PM 01-19-2014
A Van De Graaff generator has a very soft spark as it is a static discharge. The Telsa coil has a very hot spark as shown in the photo especially the one in the photo that uses a high voltage primary neon sign transformer with a capacitor and a spark gap to the primary winding of the Telsa coil.
The other version of the Telsa coil, like the one I built when I was a kid uses tubes in a oscillator circuit. It had a safer RF discharge.
The one I built used 3 811A tubes in parallel and drove a 4 foot tall 10" diameter secondary coil and resonated at about 800 Khz. It threw a 30" spark and jammed all of the AM radios in the neighborhood.
Was fun to build, and didn't get busted by the FCC.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 08:59 PM 01-19-2014
I really couldn't tell what was in that photo. You could bring a fluorescent tube near the coil and it would light. The Van de's we used just like in the photo. To send what looked like a lightening bolt. They were a lot bigger than whatever was in the photo. An aluminum dome I think with a high speed belt driven by a motor to bring a static charge up for storage on the inside of the dome. The larger the dome, the higher voltage the static charge. One of the largest Van de's ever built is now on display at the Boston Museum of science. The dome was so large, the insides were used as an office.
BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT 09:11 PM 01-19-2014
How a Van De Graaff generator works.

mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 09:22 PM 01-19-2014
Actually, that's about how we built them then. I can't image anybody being fascinated enough with one nowadays to build one. Hell. I actually built crystal radios 60 years ago.
BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT 09:25 PM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
.....You could bring a fluorescent tube near the coil and it would light.
Yup, I lit up all of the fluorescent tubes in Dad's garage and some in the house!
BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT 09:33 PM 01-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich
Actually, that's about how we built them then. I can't image anybody being fascinated enough with one nowadays to build one. Hell. I actually built crystal radios 60 years ago.

I wanted to build a Van De Graaff generator, but could never afford the hollow globe.
Could only build Telsa coils.
The first one I built was in Popular Science magazine around 1965.
It was called a Flower Pot Telsa Coil as it used a plastic flower pot as the coil form for the secondary winding.
JohnHWman's Avatar JohnHWman 01:53 AM 01-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post

On this picture, you can easely locate the HDMI 2.0 chips receivers (two squares TQFP packages) of the two HDMI inputs. These chips are juste located beside the HDMI receptacles (left side - middle of this board picture).

Having a closer picture of the printing/laser marking that is on these chips can let us know what is the manufacturer (Silicon image ?) and let us found what are their HDMI 2.0 (HDCP) capabilities (including 18 or 10Gbps).

John
sanderdvd's Avatar sanderdvd 02:32 AM 01-20-2014
I think it s become time for Sony Dave to tell us more
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 06:30 AM 01-20-2014
Ben. Rather than trying to do a close up of the two small chips, you could just see if the markings are the same on each and just post the markings. If they are the same, why no HDCP 2.2 on HDMI 1?
Ben Withrow's Avatar Ben Withrow 10:36 AM 01-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Ben. Rather than trying to do a close up of the two small chips, you could just see if the markings are the same on each and just post the markings. If they are the same, why no HDCP 2.2 on HDMI 1?

The chips aren't the same. HDMI 1 is an Analog Devices's chip, HDMI 2 is a proprietary/custom looking chip. I'll post a close up later today.
Ben Withrow's Avatar Ben Withrow 12:21 PM 01-20-2014
Here is the chip for HDMI 1



For HDMI 2


zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 12:48 PM 01-20-2014
what a coincidence... it's identical to the chip on the VW500/600.

Sony_VPL_VW500-C4HEd_clip_image029.jpg
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 12:50 PM 01-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

what a coincidence... it's identical to the chip on the VW500/600.

Sony_VPL_VW500-C4HEd_clip_image029.jpg

Then you know pretty much what you will get out of the 1000 with server, having seen the 600. smile.gif
b curry's Avatar b curry 12:55 PM 01-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post

Here is the chip for HDMI 1



For HDMI 2

 

Just for fun I Googled the part numbers of the bottom chip.

 

Up pops a report from  Cine4home titled, Sony's new 4K projector in the series check: How big are the tolerances of individual devices?

 

In the report Cine4home comments on the proprietary HDMI 2 chip and goes on to say, to the effect, that they have contacted Sony Japan and have been assured that the chip makes the device (VPL-VW500) compatible with future 4K software so the buyer should not be worried about compatibility.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.cine4home.de/knowhow/Cine4Home_Edition_VW500/Sony_VPL_VW500-C4HEd.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dr9531an%2Bngt392d%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us%26rlz%3D1I7ADFA_en%26biw%3D1429%26bih%3D767

 

 

 


Ben Withrow's Avatar Ben Withrow 02:11 PM 01-20-2014
This should makes us all feel a little more at ease, as our HDMI configuration on both ports is effectively identical to both the 600 and 1100. One port for legacy HD and one for protected 4K. Does anyone know what chip the TVs use? I can't imagine Sony leaving all 600, 1000, and 1100 users in the lurches, especially when the 600 and 1100s are brand new. I'm excited to see the identical chip being used in the upgrade as used in the brand new products. You gotta love the forum.
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