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post #8461 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post

So are all of the upgrade boxes just sitting at AVS and other dealers waiting for the ok from Sony to ship them out?

No. See above.

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post #8462 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post

I heard on the news this morning that Sony has spun off their Television division.
Wonder if these changes that is going on there is delaying the roll out of the upgrade of our 1000's.

Hopefully it's a positive for us and they keep an interest in the consumer projection sector. I would say it will become a more focused and efficient division when it's spun off. As long as it doesn't become over efficient and decide consumer projectors aren't worth producing..

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post #8463 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 03:27 PM
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By making it independent, it will have to stand on its own two feet. it lost money this year but they hope to return to profitability this year mostly focusing on 4K panels. Personally, I doubt it will be successful and it will I suspect be sold off in a few years. I hope not.

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post #8464 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 03:44 PM
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Is the projector division part of the TV division? Sony Professional has their own projectors, some cousins of the consumer line, and some stand along business--only models, as well as professional applications for flat panel display.

So is the spinoff for the consumer only division, and I wonder where the 4k projectors fall in the split, given their pro lineage...(if I understand the background correctly...)

I've not had the time to google more on this ...
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post #8465 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 03:53 PM
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A contractor's subcontractor...EEK,eek.gif I have a vision of a guy driving up in a old beat up Ford Econoline van, with a hammer and screwdriver in hand ready to hack on my projector with a half day training class on how to botch the
process of downloading and uploading the firmware, Oh lord...
I was ok with the Sony tech coming out, but a freshly trained person that most likely knows nothing about Sony projectors trained to "Type this" to download firmware to his laptop, take out these screws, remove board, put new board in and go through all of those steps to integrate the old firmware with the new version and upload it and get it right.
With my luck, I would be his first job.
If Sony had written s bat file or script to do all of the downloading and uploading of the files with minimal interaction from the tech, I would feel better about it, but the way I saw the process on youtube, there are multiple opportunity's to brick the projector.
Perhaps I will just hold on to the upgrade kit and give it a few months before I schedule the appointment for the install...
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post #8466 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Is the projector division part of the TV division? Sony Professional has their own projectors, some cousins of the consumer line, and some stand along business--only models, as well as professional applications for flat panel display.

So is the spinoff for the consumer only division, and I wonder where the 4k projectors fall in the split, given their pro lineage...(if I understand the background correctly...)

I've not had the time to google more on this ...

I think the projectors would stay in the pro division. Making the TV division stand on its own would limit its capital if bumps occur, they would have to borrow and predatory pricing by Samsung and LG could and I suspect will kill it. Plus a stand alone the profitable studio would not be forced into playing ball with it.

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post #8467 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I think the projectors would stay in the pro division. Making the TV division stand on its own would limit its capital if bumps occur, they would have to borrow and predatory pricing by Samsung and LG could and I suspect will kill it. Plus a stand alone the profitable studio would not be forced into playing ball with it.

Pro and consumer projectors stay with the mothership you think?
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post #8468 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 04:15 PM
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The removal of the old board and replacement of the old is a screw driver and edge connector job. The extraction, processing, and insert of he files would require basic computer skills. I think you worry too much here.

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post #8469 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


Pro and consumer projectors stay with the mothership you think?

 

I was interested to see what this means too.  It's really hard to find out exactly how Sony is organized.  But it looks like the television business is discreet now.  This move allows complete control of the TV business unit while keeping it separate on the books.  This puts Sony in a position to sell off the TV unit in a heart beat if it continues to bleed as it has.

 

From what I could find, Sony has what they call an "imaging division".  It's possible and maybe makes some sense that the projectors are in this box.  I would assume the "imaging division" has the Pro and Consumer cameras, broadcast stuff, etc.

 

I'm surprised the VAIO division wasn't shut down a year or two ago.  Sounds like they are hanging on to tablets with cell phones in the "mobile division".

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post #8470 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 05:26 PM
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Apparently every manufacturer trying to get an adequate supply of HDMI 2.0 chips is having trouble
I have heard of several who are delaying product shipment several months after Jan 2014 announcement dates
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post #8471 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

I was interested to see what this means too.  It's really hard to find out exactly how Sony is organized.  But it looks like the television business is discreet now.  This move allows complete control of the TV business unit while keeping it separate on the books.  This puts Sony in a position to sell off the TV unit in a heart beat if it continues to bleed as it has.

From what I could find, Sony has what they call an "imaging division".  It's possible and maybe makes some sense that the projectors are in this box.  I would assume the "imaging division" has the Pro and Consumer cameras, broadcast stuff, etc.

I'm surprised the VAIO division wasn't shut down a year or two ago.  Sounds like they are hanging on to tablets with cell phones in the "mobile division".

Not discrete yet, but will be by late 2nd Q.

I just don't think it looks good. They will try to compete in the 4K panel sector with a large color space and superior claimed processing.

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post #8472 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 09:44 PM
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Well, surprise, Sony delivered the 1100ES before the latest estimated arrival(2/12) and my dealer installed it today. It went smoothly since they had previously installed a Sony demo 1000ES until the 1100 arrived. A few observations:

1. There appears to be no difference in the menus or display quality (as would be expected).
2. The FMP-X1 delivers beautiful video but no audio. The HDMI out from the puck goes directly to HDMI2 on the projector. The second HDMI out from the puck (audio only) goes to AVP(Classe CT-SSP). I have enabled HDMI audio via the 4K app on the tablet but still no sound. I should probably post this in another thread but since several here will be getting the puck with the 1000 upgrade, I thought it would be worth a heads up. From what I have read elsewhere this appears to be a common problem for anyone using an AVP. I would be glad to test any possible solutions offered by this group.
3. The free movie offer expired 12/31 but they did give me a free download( Elysium) and about 30 short clips. It took a little less than five hours to download Elysium.
4. VCR won't play video, probably since 480i composite signal won't be output correctly to HDMI out of AVP. But the Laserdisc player works via composite out(AVP won't accept s-vid) so that is puzzling. Not a big issue since I only have a few old family videos that I can convert to DVDs.
5. I am using two Celerity fiber optic cables to the projector and the video works fine for all sources (Uverse STB, Panasonic Blu Ray, AppleTv, Pioneer CLD-704 laserdisc, and FMP-X1). Originally my dealer was going to use HDMIbaseT but was concerned about my 60 ft. length requirement. They do need to be powered at receiving end but not a big deal.

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post #8473 of 10190 Old 02-06-2014, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sner View Post

Well, surprise, Sony delivered the 1100ES before the latest estimated arrival(2/12) and my dealer installed it today. It went smoothly since they had previously installed a Sony demo 1000ES until the 1100 arrived. A few observations:

1. There appears to be no difference in the menus or display quality (as would be expected).
2. The FMP-X1 delivers beautiful video but no audio. The HDMI out from the puck goes directly to HDMI2 on the projector. The second HDMI out from the puck (audio only) goes to AVP(Classe CT-SSP). I have enabled HDMI audio via the 4K app on the tablet but still no sound. I should probably post this in another thread but since several here will be getting the puck with the 1000 upgrade, I thought it would be worth a heads up. From what I have read elsewhere this appears to be a common problem for anyone using an AVP. I would be glad to test any possible solutions offered by this group.
3. The free movie offer expired 12/31 but they did give me a free download( Elysium) and about 30 short clips. It took a little less than five hours to download Elysium.
4. VCR won't play video, probably since 480i composite signal won't be output correctly to HDMI out of AVP. But the Laserdisc player works via composite out(AVP won't accept s-vid) so that is puzzling. Not a big issue since I only have a few old family videos that I can convert to DVDs.
5. I am using two Celerity fiber optic cables to the projector and the video works fine for all sources (Uverse STB, Panasonic Blu Ray, AppleTv, Pioneer CLD-704 laserdisc, and FMP-X1). Originally my dealer was going to use HDMIbaseT but was concerned about my 60 ft. length requirement. They do need to be powered at receiving end but not a big deal.

The HDMI 2 audio issue seems to be more prevalent in slightly more esoteric AVP's. Mine is working flawlessly with my Denon 4520 with no issues from the start.

You're not alone with missing the free movie offer a couple of the panel owners in the FMP-X1 thread got really bent of shape about it. You can take heart in the fact you didn't miss that much with the free stuff.

Haven't ever tried any legacy sources with the 1000 or 1100 myself. Not even sure where to begin in trying to analyse that issue. But you're prob right about something going wrong with the internal conversion to HDMI.

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post #8474 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sner View Post

Well, surprise, Sony delivered the 1100ES before the latest estimated arrival(2/12) and my dealer installed it today. It went smoothly since they had previously installed a Sony demo 1000ES until the 1100 arrived. A few observations:

1. There appears to be no difference in the menus or display quality (as would be expected).
2. The FMP-X1 delivers beautiful video but no audio. The HDMI out from the puck goes directly to HDMI2 on the projector. The second HDMI out from the puck (audio only) goes to AVP(Classe CT-SSP). I have enabled HDMI audio via the 4K app on the tablet but still no sound. I should probably post this in another thread but since several here will be getting the puck with the 1000 upgrade, I thought it would be worth a heads up. From what I have read elsewhere this appears to be a common problem for anyone using an AVP. I would be glad to test any possible solutions offered by this group.
3. The free movie offer expired 12/31 but they did give me a free download( Elysium) and about 30 short clips. It took a little less than five hours to download Elysium.
4. VCR won't play video, probably since 480i composite signal won't be output correctly to HDMI out of AVP. But the Laserdisc player works via composite out(AVP won't accept s-vid) so that is puzzling. Not a big issue since I only have a few old family videos that I can convert to DVDs.
5. I am using two Celerity fiber optic cables to the projector and the video works fine for all sources (Uverse STB, Panasonic Blu Ray, AppleTv, Pioneer CLD-704 laserdisc, and FMP-X1). Originally my dealer was going to use HDMIbaseT but was concerned about my 60 ft. length requirement. They do need to be powered at receiving end but not a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

The HDMI 2 audio issue seems to be more prevalent in slightly more esoteric AVP's. Mine is working flawlessly with my Denon 4520 with no issues from the start.

You're not alone with missing the free movie offer a couple of the panel owners in the FMP-X1 thread got really bent of shape about it. You can take heart in the fact you didn't miss that much with the free stuff.

Haven't ever tried any legacy sources with the 1000 or 1100 myself. Not even sure where to begin in trying to analyse that issue. But you're prob right about something going wrong with the internal conversion to HDMI.

Yes, There are two very common problems and the "techs" at the Sony 4k service line are clueless.

First - No Audio on HDMI 2 out of the FMP-X! to some Pre/Pros

Second- FMP-X1 refuses to recognize an external USB HDD that has been plugged into the USB port

If you find the answers please post them as you will be a hero
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post #8475 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 05:50 AM
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Not discrete yet, but will be by late 2nd Q.

I just don't think it looks good. They will try to compete in the 4K panel sector with a large color space and superior claimed processing.

 

Shure, looks like it's official 2nd calender quarter.  Sony's fiscal year ends March 31st which is just around the corner.

 

I would assume this was not a shoot from the hip decision by Sony and a Sony without TV's seems sacrilegious.

 

I agree it does not look good.  4K TV sounds nice but it's still at early adopter pricing, there is no broadcast TV support or prospect of it, no readily available content unless you subscribe to the Sony Entertainment Network service, and too little visual difference on the average sized TV panel to make people want to ditch their 1080p panels.

 

The new Playstation 4 game console is not expected to break even for another two years as well.

 

It's beginning to smell like the Pioneer scenario; Sony consumer electronics is clearly in triage at this point.

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post #8476 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sner View Post

Well, surprise, Sony delivered the 1100ES before the latest estimated arrival(2/12) and my dealer installed it today. It went smoothly since they had previously installed a Sony demo 1000ES until the 1100 arrived. A few observations:

1. There appears to be no difference in the menus or display quality (as would be expected).
2. The FMP-X1 delivers beautiful video but no audio. The HDMI out from the puck goes directly to HDMI2 on the projector. The second HDMI out from the puck (audio only) goes to AVP(Classe CT-SSP). I have enabled HDMI audio via the 4K app on the tablet but still no sound. I should probably post this in another thread but since several here will be getting the puck with the 1000 upgrade, I thought it would be worth a heads up. From what I have read elsewhere this appears to be a common problem for anyone using an AVP. I would be glad to test any possible solutions offered by this group.
3. The free movie offer expired 12/31 but they did give me a free download( Elysium) and about 30 short clips. It took a little less than five hours to download Elysium.
4. VCR won't play video, probably since 480i composite signal won't be output correctly to HDMI out of AVP. But the Laserdisc player works via composite out(AVP won't accept s-vid) so that is puzzling. Not a big issue since I only have a few old family videos that I can convert to DVDs.
5. I am using two Celerity fiber optic cables to the projector and the video works fine for all sources (Uverse STB, Panasonic Blu Ray, AppleTv, Pioneer CLD-704 laserdisc, and FMP-X1). Originally my dealer was going to use HDMIbaseT but was concerned about my 60 ft. length requirement. They do need to be powered at receiving end but not a big deal.

I hate to hear this. I have the uninstalled upgrade kit sitting in a box that is not far from my CT-SSP. Keep us posted, if you find a solution. For now, call Classe. They tend to be very helpful. They helped me with some special CAN bus stuff that was unique to my setup. If they are aware of the issue, they can probably get the HDMI working with an update.

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post #8477 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post

I hate to hear this. I have the uninstalled upgrade kit sitting in a box that is not far from my CT-SSP. Keep us posted, if you find a solution. For now, call Classe. They tend to be very helpful. They helped me with some special CAN bus stuff that was unique to my setup. If they are aware of the issue, they can probably get the HDMI working with an update.

I think calls should be made to Sony that their hdmi2 audio out is the odd duck here...
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post #8478 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 08:04 AM
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Regarding Sony TV biz. My business experience tells me mostly companies split off divisions when they want to sell them to someone else - Samsung, LG, etc. Making them a separate business has more to do with shedding the division than anything else. You can't run a money losing business forever.

Of course for me this is an unhappy prospect with both the 1000ES and a brand new 84X900 panel. Future support and future product development is at risk. Competitiveness in the TV market will be reduced with a merger/sale - meaning prices will stabilize. It is the nature of capital markets.
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post #8479 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
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I think calls should be made to Sony that their hdmi2 audio out is the odd duck here...

I'm assuming those calls will be made. But if AVPs are having issues that receivers aren't, the AVPs are doing something a little different and potentially tweakable. I have a love-hate relationship with all AVPs.

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post #8480 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 08:19 AM
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I'm hoping the commercial projector side of the business provides a nice synergy with the consumer side. It seems pretty efficient to pass down cinema tech to the home, but who really knows. Ye ole upgraded 1000 should take us to a time where everyone is making 4k projectors, and many are LED driven.

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post #8481 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post

I'm assuming those calls will be made. But if AVPs are having issues that receivers aren't, the AVPs are doing something a little different and potentially tweakable. I have a love-hate relationship with all AVPs.

I believe I've read somewhere (not on AVS) that some Onkyo and Pioneer receivers had issues with HDMI 2 audio, but don't quote me...

I look at it this way. With my McIntosh MX 151, I have (or had)

- 2 PC's with AMD and nVidia HDMI video cards
- 2 Sony Blu Ray players
- 1 Samsung Blu ray Player
- an Oppo 103
- a PS3
- a PS4
- an Xbox 360
- an Xbox One
- a DirecTv Genie
- a Tivo Roamio
- a Dune
- a Mede8er
- a Popcorn Hour
- an Apple Mac Mini
- an Apple TV

Directly and through a Dual Cat 7 HDMI matrix switch.

Directly and through a Lumagen

And never had an audio issue with the McIntosh (save a DirecTV loss of audio when changing channels, but this was a Lumagen issue they promptly fixed). Some had an issue with audio from on Oppo, but Oppo released a fix.

So now the FMP comes, and suddenly the lack of audio is the processor's fault? And know that if you hook up hdmi 1 to the MX, you will hear the audio (it just can't pass 4k video of course). And if I pass the hdmi 2 audio through a lumagen, it cleans up the handshake so I can also hear audio via he MX.

So while I can't absolve the McIntosh as I don't know yet what's happening, the accretion of evidence leads in a different direction...
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post #8482 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 12:38 PM
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Thrang, you've had good luck with HDMI. I have or have seen little HDMI glitches all over my house. My Oppo's have frustrated me on many occasion. One of my cable boxes seems to make the order in which I turn my TV, receiver, and cable box on important. I'm not saying everyone should bow to Sony and work around their issues. I just think it is worth making Classe (and MacIntosh) aware of the issue. It could be something they could and would want to resolve. Sony should definitely know and try to help us as well. These processor companies remind me of a Porsche, which has these awesome drive trains and suspensions with user interface and control technology that seems eight years old.

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post #8483 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 02:39 PM
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OK. the audio problem is solved. Not Classe's fault; not Sony's fault.... but mine. Embarrassing! The Classe has five HDMI inputs. If you assign a DVD player to input 1, then you tell it that video is on HDMI1 and so on for other HDMI inputs. You then assign each component an audio connection(optical,analog, HDMI etc.). But if you choose HDMI for audio, there is no HDMI1, 2, etc.---just plain old HDMI on the menu. Since the video for the puck goes directly to the projector I didn't bother assigning a "video" input on the Classe, I just gave it the HDMI assignment for audio. But it turns out that the Classe uses the video connector assignment to figure out which port the HDMI audio will be coming from. Makes sense, but never occurred to me--probably because of the horror stories I had heard about the audio issues, I just assumed I was another victim.

A few things I learned when hooking up the puck that may speed up your install time:
1. When the tablet arrives, start charging it right away since it takes a while.
2. The instructions tell you to launch the 4K app, but they do not tell you it does not come pre-installed. You need to go to their version of an app-store and download it.
3. After that, the software will probably ask to install updates. You also will be asked to enter a code from you TVscreen to the tablet app in order to "pair" the projector/tablet.
4. The puck needs a wired connection to your home LAN; the projector does not need an internet connection.
5. On the settings menu in the app, make sure you go to "audio" settings to enable the puck's HDMI audio connection to be used for audio (unless for some reason you want to send audio to the projector)

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post #8484 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 03:00 PM
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I have not had any problems with audio with my Meridian 861v8 processor.  It works fine.  The biggest challenge was getting the puck paired with the tablet.

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post #8485 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 07:03 PM
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I have a weird issue with my 1000ES. I always set the Preset to 'Reference', but sometimes when I'm back in the Menu I see that is has changed, sometimes to 'Photo' or some other preset. I set it back to 'Reference', and is stays there for several weeks, but sometimes I see that it has changed. (And i'm the only one that uses the projector.)

Has anyone else observed this behavior?
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post #8486 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 07:06 PM
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I have not. Are your sources/input frequencies and refresh rates always the same? I think the memories are based on type of input.
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post #8487 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I have not. Are your sources/input frequencies and refresh rates always the same? I think the memories are based on type of input.

Perhaps not. I switch between HDTV and BD's, never paying any attention to the input parameters.
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post #8488 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I have a weird issue with my 1000ES. I always set the Preset to 'Reference', but sometimes when I'm back in the Menu I see that is has changed, sometimes to 'Photo' or some other preset. I set it back to 'Reference', and is stays there for several weeks, but sometimes I see that it has changed. (And i'm the only one that uses the projector.)

Has anyone else observed this behavior?

I was in the same boat until I realized I was laying remote face down.......those darn buttons are sensitive! biggrin.gif
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post #8489 of 10190 Old 02-07-2014, 10:29 PM
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I was in the same boat until I realized I was laying remote face down.......those darn buttons are sensitive! biggrin.gif

Thx, doublewing; maybe that's it.
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post #8490 of 10190 Old 02-08-2014, 03:25 AM
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I have had the same occurrence occasionally. An annoyance at best and I have never even thought of trying to figure out how it happened or even reporting it. I think this phenomena for purposes of further discussion here should be referred to as an incidental non intentional modal change occurring at turn on (INIMC). Alternatively we could just call it the Russian electronic snow flake glitch (RESNFG).

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