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post #8731 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Many are happy with just IR. Sony doesn't make the transmitter. They procure it and rebox it. Its rather pricey and it would have raised the kit cost I suspect.

And please let's not argue and bitch. The upgrade is what it is and costs what it is. And US Sony layoffs, massive, were announced this week. Spending money on customer bitches abour should have included more freebees is on no one's mind.

I agree, I'm just saying I don't think they are losing their shirt on this...
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post #8732 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveN View Post


So far I have been so disappointed by the sound quality of any satellite/cable source that I don't know if I could accept the trade-off of 4k video with relatively crappy compressed sound vs Blu-ray. Is the Sony 4k currently uncompressed audio?
I would want the ability to have 4K video quality with HD audio if the successor to Blu-Ray emerges.

 

Apparently not.  One would hope this gets sorted out in the future too.

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post #8733 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post


I agree, I'm just saying I don't think they are losing their shirt on this...

 

+1

 

Especially when you take into consideration the MB is the same unit used in the VPL-500/600es and the VPL-500es selling price in Japan.  That puts the upgrade at approximately 40% of the selling price of the VPL-500es unit.

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post #8734 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Losing their shirt? How?

Their cost basis on the FMP, Lamp, and tablet are, my guess, 40-50% of retail. Logic board perhaps 400-500. Perhaps 300-350 per service call. There may be parts value of the returned logic board as well.

I don't know if there's dealer margin on the kits, probably 5-10%.

Figure another 10% overhead for managing the upgrade process

So they could be making 10-20% on the $2500 upgrade without stretching logic.

Dealers are not doing this for free. This has been a lot of work for us due to all of the coordination. I don't know about you, but I can't make enough money at $300 to $350 an install to pay for the following:

1. Furnish a vehicle, gas and maintenance.
2. Pay the technician for a full day of work for one install.

Some of these installs are requiring a tech to drive 3 hours or more each way, then work 2 to 3 hours for the install. So you would be paying a guy for 8 to 10 hours of work. If paying the guy $30/hour (that is cheap for a service tech) you just spent $240 to $300 on top of the other costs. So I doubt that Sony can find installers willing to do this work for $300 to $350. It would take two installs a day to just break even at that price and even in a highly populated area with installs close together, three would be the most you could do in one day. I would not be interested in doing this at that price if I had an install company. If you are willing to do this for that price, I bet Sony would be interested in talking to you. smile.gif

Now if you can get four units in one place, then it would be possible to do this at that price and make money, as long as there are no problems. We have nearly 40 installs and we have not been able to group four together. We have been able to group one group of three. All the rest are single installs with travel in between. Installer did two for us in one day. The first install took 3 hours. The second also took 3 hours. The second install required the tech to put the old board back in, due to a problem with the new board. So now the tech has to come back and do it a second time. Still think it a wise move for a company to contract at $300 to $350 an install? These were local installs in Rochester. The tech drove a little over 2 hours to get to us. 20 to 30 minutes to get to the second install and a little over 2 hours to get back to his office.

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post #8735 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 06:56 AM
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Good points but even at 500-550 average per install they are not losing their shirts - and if the logic boards are from the 500/600 production their cost could be lower

And remember the original cost of the 1000... I'd be a little surprised if some aspect of upgrade cost basis wasn't factored in, knowing HDMI 2 was in the future...

Anyway, don't want to belabor it...
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post #8736 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 08:46 AM
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It is what it is, but it should be pointed out that this MB upgrade also included hardware that they weren't moving. It also bodes well for customer service and loyalty, fulfilling a promise, rather than a bunch of pissed-off well-to-do folks looking for a class-action lawsuit. I'd guess that at least one owner of the 1000ES is a lawyer (not counting Mark). However, the most important aspect of getting all on the same HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 chip is the implied potential for future sales of any upcoming Sony 4KBD player and 4K media. That's what would make their Studio happy and they have to be the one carrying a lot of weight now because of their profitability within the company. Money talks, unprofitable divisions get sold off, and layoffs occur to stop the bleeding.

They aren't losing money on the 500/600/1000/1100 projectors and certainly won't on sales of 4K movies down the road.

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post #8737 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 09:16 AM
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Be
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Many are happy with just IR. Sony doesn't make the transmitter. They procure it and rebox it. Its rather pricey and it would have raised the kit cost I suspect.

Because it would have more long term usefulness than the puck. They are doing RF going forward it seems like...and the Sony glasses are proprietary and increasingly hard to find.

So I wasn't really saying "more" upgrade just maybe a different bundle. But I guess I spoke too soon because of course they have to get the content sales device in our hands somehow.

Matt
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post #8738 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 09:28 AM
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How feasible is it that HEVC encoding can occur outside the 1100? Ie in an exterior box or in a future 4k streaming product? With 4k Netflix streaming coming this spring/summer, this capability would be nice without a second upgrade to the 1100.
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post #8739 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave9999 View Post

My dealer has ISF certified techs, but has never performed calibration on an 1100 or even a 1000.  Does anyone have a recommendation for someone to calibrate my 1100, or any tips for my dealer if I have the dealer perform the calibration work.  I do not have an outboard video processor, but would consider one when they have 4k more fully integrated into them.  Thanks.

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post #8740 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 09:37 AM
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Losing their shirt? Sony electronics doesn't have a shirt left to lose. I think that's why Amy (who is very pretty) left (just kidding). She probably didn't want to run around Sony USA headquarters in San Diego topless.

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post #8741 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 09:37 AM
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post #8742 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

They are already losing their shirt on this upgrade, why do you think they should have included more?

I think that if Sony could figure a way to back out of this deal, they would.
Perhaps that's why they are dragging their feet on shipping out the upgrade kits to AVS.
30 kits are a drop in the bucket to them, there is no reason that they couldn't have gotten them out to AVS by now.
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post #8743 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

What do you mean exactly by the "adaptor"?

This adapter:


http://www.winnings.de/Projektoren-u-Beamer/Sony/Sony-3D-Brillen-u-Zubeh-r/Sony-TMR-RF1-Funk-Emitter-mit-2-Brillen-f-r-Sony-HW50.html


It looks like they are selling it with an RJ-45 -> 3 pin VESA adapter. I would buy one and make the adapter but I don't see these as being available in the US, even under the Xpand brand.


sony-rf1.jpg



VW1100-access.jpg

The advertisement shows the AD025-RF-X1 which only has a 3 PIN VESA port. They must be including this adapter for it to work on the Sony models.
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post #8744 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 11:56 AM
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The Sony service rep for my install is flying from Michigan to Seattle, but my install is in Spokane. So he had to fly here special, and 1.5 hours for car travel, rental car, and probably an overnight stay. I'm the only one in the area. So I think I've got a pretty good deal on the upgrade. smile.gif
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post #8745 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 12:27 PM
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still cleless about the adaptor. What's the box at the end of the cable for. I see one end is an RJ45.

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post #8746 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post

I think that if Sony could figure a way to back out of this deal, they would.
Perhaps that's why they are dragging their feet on shipping out the upgrade kits to AVS.
30 kits are a drop in the bucket to them, there is no reason that they couldn't have gotten them out to AVS by now.

I think Mike said almost half the kits have shipped. When I talked with Sony last week about various matters, I was told there was now no shortage of kits and that the installers were making significant headway in quickly getting them installed.

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post #8747 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I think Mike said everybody's kit has now been shipped. When I talked with Sony last week about various matters, I was told there was now no shortage of kits and that the installers were making significant headway in quickly getting them installed.

Don't think so.
Mike told me that I was #19 on the list and haven't been notified and my credit card has not been charged.
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post #8748 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 12:55 PM
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I can't believe how much griping there is about the upgrade. We can parse the board price, tech cost, etc., but there is a substantial cost to simply set this program up, test it, train people to do it, oversee the process, and implement it. There is a big process behind getting this thing out, especially given the limited number of 1000s there are in the grand scheme of Sony. Plus, the dealer gets a cut out of the price, which they deserve for putting up with our crying. I may be naive, but I'm still shocked that Sony is actually doing this at this price. Assuming this works with 4k bluray, we got a steal.

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post #8749 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I think Mike said everybody's kit has now been shipped. When I talked with Sony last week about various matters, I was told there was now no shortage of kits and that the installers were making significant headway in quickly getting them installed.

I called the number on my upgrade and the Sony lady said 2-4 weeks in general, but didn't have specifics for me.

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post #8750 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post

I can't believe how much griping there is about the upgrade. We can parse the board price, tech cost, etc., but there is a substantial cost to simply set this program up, test it, train people to do it, oversee the process, and implement it. There is a big process behind getting this thing out, especially given the limited number of 1000s there are in the grand scheme of Sony. Plus, the dealer gets a cut out of the price, which they deserve for putting up with our crying. I may be naive, but I'm still shocked that Sony is actually doing this at this price. Assuming this works with 4k bluray, we got a steal.

Who's griping?
I'm just waiting, Then Mark states that they all have been shipped?
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post #8751 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

How feasible is it that HEVC encoding can occur outside the 1100? Ie in an exterior box or in a future 4k streaming product? With 4k Netflix streaming coming this spring/summer, this capability would be nice without a second upgrade to the 1100.

 

Don't think anyone knows yet.  You would think that something like a Roku box, or a set-top box might have the hardware it.  On the other hand, Sony, Vizio, and Samsung have announced they will have HEVC decoding built into new 4K TV's coming later this year.

 

It's a chicken or the egg question at this point. A TV with HEVC built in doesn't need a box with HEVC decoding and a box with HEVC decoding is no good without a 4k display...  Then you have a potential format war or at least the inconvenience of Google pushing the VP9 4K cocec.

 

The bigger question for me is where is the 4k content coming from?  Sony's studio's are the only ones participating at this point.  Hollywood is probably going to demand different royalty structures for the same movie from SD through UHD.  Internet providers are going to have a field day with data caps.  I don't see where all the pieces fit at the moment to really worry about a second upgrade.

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post #8752 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post

Who's griping?
I'm just waiting, Then Mark states that they all have been shipped?

Bobcat, I didn't say you were griping, but every few days the gripes from the naysayers seem to flare up. My post was more of just a general note to be appreciative and have realistic expectations. As for the gripes, just check out the last two pages of posts. I'm not being critical of anyone, but feel like those who gripe and critique the price and packaging of the upgrade need to think about the big picture, pun intended. Even using the same board as provided in the 1100, think of the overhead, management, engineering, testing, packaging, boxing, training, insurance, shipping, travel, etc. that is needed for this project, which is so small compared to the lower end projector market, television market, PS4 market, etc. Even if they hosed everyone who had a 1000, the future impact would probably not affect the bottom line enough to even register after the bean counters round things up or down the way they normally do.

Now, please share with me how you guys are setting your gamma? I don't have an external processor. I've seen reviewers recommend running gamma correction off (and starting with ref. mode), which is how reference mode comes preset. When searching this thread, I've seen folks using the 2.2 and 2.4 correction settings. Is there a consensus with gamma and the iris?

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post #8753 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 01:47 PM
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Had the upgrade installed yesterday (huge thanks to installer Alex Prince for doing such a fantastic, thorough job). All I can say is that the upgrade may be a tad overpriced but the image quality you get out of the projector with it really does make good on the 4k promise that Sony advertised in the first place for the 1000ES. At this point it looks vastly better than the majority of most movie theaters out there and on my 146" Studiotek 130 it just sings like crazy. I can't get over how good the IQ is on newer 4k acquired movie sources like The Amazing Spiderman, Total Recall, and some of the free shorts that come with the puck.

One question - and I really do apologize if this has been covered in this thread before - since the movie deal that Sony promised us with the puck expired last year what are they doing now as far as crediting the buyers of the upgrade package? We were promised roughly 400 dollars in movies as part of the upgrade (average 4k movie price for the puck is 39.99 and we were promised 10 movies as part of the deal). Is there a code that came with the upgrade kit that I have to redeem? I can't seem to find any documentation on this anywhere.

Thank you all!!
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One question - and I really do apologize if this has been covered in this thread before - since the movie deal that Sony promised us with the puck expired last year what are they doing now as far as crediting the buyers of the upgrade package? We were promised roughly 400 dollars in movies as part of the upgrade (average 4k movie price for the puck is 39.99 and we were promised 10 movies as part of the deal)

The person in charge of the coupon code was let go in the mass layoffs...he has taken the codes with him and is currently residing in eastern Lithuania trying to contact Edward Snowden to post the files, which will be available by Bitcoin purchase only.
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post #8755 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

still cleless about the adaptor. What's the box at the end of the cable for. I see one end is an RJ45.

look closer, there is a 3 pin VESA input

adapter.jpg

This looks like the same type of adapter people were making on the german forums to connect the MV3D transmitter to the RJ-45 a few years ago.
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post #8756 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheo View Post

One question - and I really do apologize if this has been covered in this thread before - since the movie deal that Sony promised us with the puck expired last year what are they doing now as far as crediting the buyers of the upgrade package? We were promised roughly 400 dollars in movies as part of the upgrade (average 4k movie price for the puck is 39.99 and we were promised 10 movies as part of the deal). Is there a code that came with the upgrade kit that I have to redeem? I can't seem to find any documentation on this anywhere.

Thank you all!!

I don't know if it's included in the upgrade kit but when I got the puck with my 1100, there was a coupon for the 10 free movies via ultraviolet. My first reaction was I don't want to watch movies on a pc/tablet, but if you create a Vudu account and then access Vudu via your BluRay player, you can the watch them in 1080p on your 1000/1100. Granted, 1080p is not 4K but some of the Vudu movies look pretty good and the UI is better/faster imo than Apple store.

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post #8757 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

The person in charge of the coupon code was let go in the mass layoffs...he has taken the codes with him and is currently residing in eastern Lithuania trying to contact Edward Snowden to post the files, which will be available by Bitcoin purchase only.

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post #8758 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

What do you mean exactly by the "adaptor"?


he transmitter ends in a 3 pin "Din" ( VESA ) plug and the projector has a RJ45 connection.





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post #8759 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

This adapter:


http://www.winnings.de/Projektoren-u-Beamer/Sony/Sony-3D-Brillen-u-Zubeh-r/Sony-TMR-RF1-Funk-Emitter-mit-2-Brillen-f-r-Sony-HW50.html


It looks like they are selling it with an RJ-45 -> 3 pin VESA adapter. I would buy one and make the adapter but I don't see these as being available in the US, even under the Xpand brand.


sony-rf1.jpg



VW1100-access.jpg

The advertisement shows the AD025-RF-X1 which only has a 3 PIN VESA port. They must be including this adapter for it to work on the Sony models.


Thanks Z10K, for answering it for me ( and faster biggrin.gif )

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post #8760 of 10094 Old 03-01-2014, 03:37 PM
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So basically you terminate the standard male RJ45 with cat 5 and then go to the wiring diagram for the RJ45 on the projector and connect he wires for the 3 pins used to the appropriate three points on the male 3 pin Din. But once what is the box doing. There are no electronic transcoding. Its just two different end connectors with the Din only using 3 of the internal wires in the cat 5 cable..

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