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post #9631 of 10190 Old 04-16-2014, 12:03 PM
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With the delay of 4k bluray until 2016 (phase 1 with 10 bit specs) and with the new Sony server's 4k streaming capability...this makes the 1000 upgrade much more worthwhile. My guess would be $299 for the new server. I hope the usb port spec saying 2.0 is a misprint and it's really 3.0.

Anyone know if release is estimated to be early, mid or late summer?

Hopefully Sony fixed the bugs in the hdmi 2 audio out in the new server so dd+ will play through our MX151 processors (and other low production processors) via hdmi. The need for a converter is not ideal. Joerod, please notify your contacts at Sony to test for this glitch early. The Oppo 103 had a similar problem and Oppo addressed it.

For those interested, Best Buy has the WD My Book 4TB on sale for $149.99.
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post #9632 of 10190 Old 04-16-2014, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post

With the delay of 4k bluray until 2016 (phase 1 with 10 bit specs)....

Please provide a reliable source of the above.

Best Regards,

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post #9633 of 10190 Old 04-16-2014, 06:22 PM
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post #9634 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 04:13 AM
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If it's going to take until 2016 to roll out 4k UHD discs, then more than Sony is massively dysfunctional.

This industry couldn't roll out a ball apparently...
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post #9635 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 04:34 AM
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If it's going to take until 2016 to roll out 4k UHD discs, then more than Sony is massively dysfunctional.

This industry couldn't roll out a ball apparently...

It's unlikely BD 4k discs would be delayed that long. I wouldn't be surprised we start to see titles late this year or early next year.
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post #9636 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 04:52 AM
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That won't happen. You have no idea of the in fighting that is going on in the BDA. Going on is actually not a good description. There is no action forcing deadline to force decisions that are not of maximum benefit to given stakeholder. There simply is no rush and delay really doesn't cost anybody anything except Manni who will be out cigars and he isn't a member of the BDA.

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post #9637 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 05:24 AM
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That won't happen. You have no idea of the in fighting that is going on in the BDA. Going on is actually not a good description. There is no action forcing deadline to force decisions that are not of maximum benefit to given stakeholder. There simply is no rush and delay really doesn't cost anybody anything except Manni who will be out cigars and he isn't a member of the BDA.

Mark, you can forgive adidino's lassiez faire optimism...he is too consumed crushing his skull with a new hi-end headphone stack, rediscovering missing organ notes in his music collection, to exhibit the true passion this topic needs!
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post #9638 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 05:27 AM
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Mark, you can forgive adidino's lassiez faire optimism...he is too consumed crushing his skull with a new hi-end headphone stack, rediscovering missing organ notes in his music collection, to exhibit the true passion this topic needs!

Bl*w me! smile.gif
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post #9639 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

That won't happen. You have no idea of the in fighting that is going on in the BDA. Going on is actually not a good description. There is no action forcing deadline to force decisions that are not of maximum benefit to given stakeholder. There simply is no rush and delay really doesn't cost anybody anything except Manni who will be out cigars and he isn't a member of the BDA.

Waiting too long would risk consumer interest. I would have to believe there is some level of urgency to get things settled.
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post #9640 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 05:34 AM
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Be careful Thrang, Adidino could have been cast in the Sopranos smile.gif.

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post #9641 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 05:39 AM
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Good news for Lumagen lover smile.gif

Now available a new Radiance 2043 that can output a 4k/60 signal :

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1527734/lumagen-new-radiance-21xx-video-processors
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post #9642 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 05:55 AM
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Be careful Thrang, Adidino could have been cast in the Sopranos smile.gif.

With his new avatar, more like the Little Rascals...
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post #9643 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 06:09 AM
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With his new avatar, more like the Little Rascals...

I knew a guy that spoke to me like that once... ONCE. wink.gif
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post #9644 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Good news for Lumagen lover smile.gif

Now available a new Radiance 2043 that can output a 4k/60 signal :

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1527734/lumagen-new-radiance-21xx-video-processors

It has 8 HDMIs in and 2 out. there is another model that has analog ins as well. The HDMI only 4K 60 out is $3995 MSRP ans is 1RU high just like the 4K 30 out ones. It is available immediately. No trade in deals have been announced. another interesting feature it has both a RS232 in for software updates AND has a USB in for upgrades of software as well. So no more USB to RS232 converter needed and no more null modem cable needed either.

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post #9645 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 09:36 AM
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It has 8 HDMIs in and 2 out. there is another model that has analog ins as well. The HDMI only 4K 60 out is $3995 MSRP ans is 1RU high just like the 4K 30 out ones. It is available immediately. No trade in deals have been announced. another interesting feature it has both a RS232 in for software updates AND has a USB in for upgrades of software as well. So no more USB to RS232 converter needed and no more null modem cable needed either.

 

HDMI 2.0?

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post #9646 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 11:14 AM
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It still doesn't do 4k in. I am a little surprised that they came out with another unit between their previous "4k" ones and a future 4k in box.
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post #9647 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 11:17 AM
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It still doesn't do 4k in. I am a little surprised that they came out with another unit between their previous "4k" ones and a future 4k in box.

Yes, pretty incremental to upgrade from the current 20xx series...unless they offer a very aggressive trade in program.
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post #9648 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 11:21 AM
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The 4K in chips are simply not available to Lumagen yet. I expect the 4K in model to be available late this year an d itto be quite more expensive, say in the $6K range. Maybe we will see Darby 4K level processing and calibration etc at 4K as well. This will require masssive processors (read expensive).. The 4K out in the just announced models is 4:2:0 8 bit at 60. I do not know if it's HDMI 2.0 or HDCP 2.2 compliant. I doubt its HDCP 2.2 given that it's not 4K in.

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post #9649 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 11:27 AM
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Ugh that will really be a shame if the 4k in is that expensive. The current ~4k price point is about as much as I would pay for a video processor... especially since the only reason I would be getting it would be the calibration capabilities.... the Sony's upscaling, especially with the 1100 upgrade, is certainly adequate. And its so close to spot on even without a CMS that I haven't felt the desire to pay for a non 4k processor. But if its $6k retail, I guess I am out. I just don't see the value there. Too bad for me I guess.
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post #9650 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 12:42 PM
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I have no inside info on the 4K in processor. I just know that the processing power needed to process 4K is massive and expensive.

Regarding the Sony scaling, I just can't stand the ringing it deliberately inroduces in an effort to increase the perceived sharpness. That's why I purchased the preceding generation. I didn't realize it didn'y do 4K 60 out making it useless to upscale the HD sports programming I watch. I will be getting the new one shortly and can hardly wait.

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post #9651 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 12:46 PM
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$6k would not work for most. Lumagen is great, but that kind of price point constricts their potential customer base quite a bit.

Heck, they have to figure out how to get their boxes less costly, perhaps to widen their market
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post #9652 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 12:54 PM
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Once again, from what I know about the cost of huge processor chips Remember we are talking talking about a chip with 4 times the amount of processing power than the current processor. .

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post #9653 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 12:59 PM
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Once again, from what I know about the cost of huge processor chips Remember we are talking talking about a chip with 4 times the amount of processing power than the current processor. .

Honestly, so what? TV's themselves have to do this processing (albeit not as well), and they don't cost 6k. I can buy a 2999 Mac Pro that can drive three or four 4k displays simultaneously.

I'm not diminishing the challenges. but its not that monumental...
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post #9654 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 01:35 PM
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At least nothing falls in price faster than processing power..... smile.gif. What costs $$$$ today costs $$ tomorrow. And then $ the next day. One can only hope the manufacturers follow suit. Now proprietary IP $$$$ may not fall so fast....
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post #9655 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 02:16 PM
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Honestly, so what? TV's themselves have to do this processing (albeit not as well), and they don't cost 6k. I can buy a 2999 Mac Pro that can drive three or four 4k displays simultaneously.

I'm not diminishing the challenges. but its not that monumental...

Driving a Windows or Mac desktop at 4K resolution on several monitors is peanuts compared to rendering video in realtime at 4K. This is why we dont see frame interpolation at 4K yet. Not even the best $1000+ graphics cards can do this yet and they're orders of magnitude faster in terms of IPC compared to what's inside the Sony 4K machines. It will be years before we get the same types of processing were used to on 1080p projectors on native 4K ones.
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post #9656 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 02:49 PM
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Driving a Windows or Mac desktop at 4K resolution on several monitors is peanuts compared to rendering video in realtime at 4K. This is why we dont see frame interpolation at 4K yet. Not even the best $1000+ graphics cards can do this yet and they're orders of magnitude faster in terms of IPC compared to what's inside the Sony 4K machines. It will be years before we get the same types of processing were used to on 1080p projectors on native 4K ones.

This may be true Seegs, but every 4k set sold is scaling incoming signals, and several have built in CMS. Now, they may suck because they haven't put the care into creating some great code like Lumagen has, but they still have to process all those pixels - cost does not make sense if it were a 6k VP...

Anyway, I know its not the same, but I always liked this demo...

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post #9657 of 10190 Old 04-17-2014, 02:57 PM
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They're scaling 1080p though. It's really apples and oranges. Most of the video processing on the Sony machines happens before the image is scaled. This is why a ton of functionality is dialsabled on the Sony's when they receive a 4K input.

The saving grace I suppose is that hardware placed inside these displays is designed from the ground up to do a specific video processing task and the software is also fine tuned for that specific hardware. Hopefully I'm wrong and they can expedite some of this functionality to 4K units. But I'm assuming, just as before with 1080p units, we're most likely going to see a race for cheap prices and this will take a toll on video processor choices and make for limited possibilities for a while.
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post #9658 of 10190 Old 04-18-2014, 07:21 AM
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If they are 6K then they may as well plan on making about 10. eek.gif

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post #9659 of 10190 Old 04-18-2014, 07:43 AM
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That's my guess, nothing at all from the company. But if everything in the the new models was held constant, the chip increase cost would force in my opinion a MSRP of $6K. Remember products are discounted and trade in deals are always a possibility. And besides Joe you prefer ring scaling to non ringing scaling. You like the illusion of increased sharpness by the halo at transition edges obscuring edge detail. That's OK and not meant as an insult. its a trick done by many scalers because people like sharpness or the illusion, in such cases, of sharpness and simply do not give two fecals about the detail loss or are simply oblivious to the halos etc.

Big boys who own 1000ES and who want to make it better in many ways will buy it if they can afford it.

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post #9660 of 10190 Old 04-18-2014, 02:27 PM
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That's my guess, nothing at all from the company. But if everything in the the new models was held constant, the chip increase cost would force in my opinion a MSRP of $6K. Remember products are discounted and trade in deals are always a possibility. And besides Joe you prefer ring scaling to non ringing scaling. You like the illusion of increased sharpness by the halo at transition edges obscuring edge detail. That's OK and not meant as an insult. its a trick done by many scalers because people like sharpness or the illusion, in such cases, of sharpness and simply do not give two fecals about the detail loss or are simply oblivious to the halos etc.

Bug boys who own 1000ES and who want to make it better in many ways will buy it if they can afford it.

I actually completely agree with you. smile.gif

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