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post #9961 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 09:47 AM
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post #9962 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 10:14 AM
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AVS Mike- You've had both the VW600 and the VW1100 side by side for a little while now. I'm curious if you could compare the two?
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post #9963 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by billqs View Post

AVS Mike- You've had both the VW600 and the VW1100 side by side for a little while now. I'm curious if you could compare the two?

The main thing I notice is the slightly better black level on the 1100ES.

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post #9964 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 01:09 PM
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Is that with running it native or with the dynamic iris on? (I run mine native .. the DI does crazy things to skin tones on all the samples I have had)


What about noise output differences?


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post #9965 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Is that with running it native or with the dynamic iris on? (I run mine native .. the DI does crazy things to skin tones on all the samples I have had)


What about noise output differences?


That is with dynamic iris. You are correct, the 1100 is quieter. With just the projector on I notice this. With movie going, I do not notice, but I only use low lamp. High lamp may make more of a difference.

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post #9966 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

That is with dynamic iris. You are correct, the 1100 is quieter. With just the projector on I notice this. With movie going, I do not notice, but I only use low lamp. High lamp may make more of a difference.

I've just recently switched to high lamp (really love the dynamic pic!) and use the dynamic iris on 'full'. I've never seen any artifacts, but this may of course be my non-discriminating eyes.
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post #9967 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 07:32 PM
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Using test patterns, do you see any differences in sharpness?

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post #9968 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Using test patterns, do you see any differences in sharpness?

Not that I can discern.
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post #9969 of 10446 Old 06-05-2014, 11:49 PM
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Anybody in the UK got an upgrade yet? I keep nudging my dealer on this but dates keep getting pushed back...

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post #9970 of 10446 Old 06-06-2014, 04:42 PM
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They are pretty busy there in Wales, because PJs from all over Europe are sent there. By the way mine is just there for the upgrade.

 

I was told it should last about 2 or 3 weeks.

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post #9971 of 10446 Old 06-08-2014, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Not that I can discern.


My fault. I would think that there would be no discernible perception of a sharpness differential unless your bulb was really dim and you switched to high. My question was directed to Mike G who has both a 600 and 1100 and has stated so far the contrast is better on the 1100 and its quieter. I wanted to get is critical observations as to which appeared sharper and to what extent. Casual viewing is casual viewing and many projectors will keep one from complaining about a lack of sharpness. By sharpness I am talking about high frequency detail which is in great part already masked by Sony's decision to introduce ringing in to its scaling algs to improve apparent sharpness to the casual viewer. The new Lumagen will eliminate this when viewing HD upscaled to 4K 60 and make the difference in sharpness between the 600 and 1100 quite apparent I would think.

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post #9972 of 10446 Old 06-09-2014, 08:30 AM
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If anyone is interested: I have my VPL-VW1000ES for sale. Placed it in the adverts too.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1533537/sony-vpl-vw1000es/0_100

You might want to try listing it on http://app.audiogon.com/listings?search_text=projector&page=1&no_listing_types_auctions=false&no_listing_types_classifieds=false&items_per_page=50&order_by=&location_filter_radius=25&min_condition=1&max_condition=11&listing_types_auctions=1&listing_types_classifieds=1 as there is not much competition there.

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post #9973 of 10446 Old 06-09-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

That is with dynamic iris. You are correct, the 1100 is quieter. With just the projector on I notice this. With movie going, I do not notice, but I only use low lamp. High lamp may make more of a difference.

I've tested the noise properties of the 1000ES pretty thoroughly. High / Low lamp makes no difference on noise, either directly or indirectly via a change in running temperature.

High vs. Standard cooling setting makes a huge difference. "High" runs the projector's fans much faster and is considerably louder than "Standard".

Ambient temp also makes a big difference. As the temp increases, the fans increase considerably which makes it much louder. Though, there's little difference once the ambient around the projector gets above low-to-mid 80's, which is almost certainly always the case given the heat produced by the projector.

Either way, I believe the advertised noise is something like 22 dB. There's no way that's true at 1m, except *maybe* when the projector is first turned on and the ambient has not yet increased above room temp.

If you're looking to build a really quiet theater (e.g., NR20), you should probably either put this projector into its own projection room reasonably far from the listening positions, or look for a different projector. I'm pretty heavily convinced that there's no way to silence this projector if it's above the listeners heads.
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post #9974 of 10446 Old 06-09-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by aligborat View Post

If you're looking to build a really quiet theater (e.g., NR20), you should probably either put this projector into its own projection room reasonably far from the listening positions, or look for a different projector. I'm pretty heavily convinced that there's no way to silence this projector if it's above the listeners heads.

I was measured at NR23 and that was with a minifridge running in the back of the room. Mine is out in the open. Maybe it is really hard to get lower, just my experience.

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post #9975 of 10446 Old 06-10-2014, 12:54 PM
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I have give Mark Haflich (another) KUDO: I finally took his advice to turn RC down to near minimum values, and the sharpness and clarity of the pic was noticeably better. I should listen to you more carefully, Mark!
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post #9976 of 10446 Old 06-10-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I have give Mark Haflich (another) KUDO: I finally took his advice to turn RC down to near minimum values, and the sharpness and clarity of the pic was noticeably better. I should listen to you more carefully, Mark!

I'm wondering why that would be?

RC as we know is a sharpening/detail enhancing setting which should, and by almost all accounts does, increase the perception of detail and clarity in an image. (And in any before/after close up shots of RC it seems to do exactly that). Why might you guys be having the reverse experience?

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post #9977 of 10446 Old 06-10-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I'm wondering why that would be?

RC as we know is a sharpening/detail enhancing setting which should, and by almost all accounts does, increase the perception of detail and clarity in an image. (And in any before/after close up shots of RC it seems to do exactly that). Why might you guys be having the reverse experience?

Mark has discussed this quite a bit, quite a while ago. I see that having RC turned up introduces jaggies in curved edges, and Mark has described various artifacts it introduces.

Just turning it 'on', even that the lowest settings, though, does enhance the pic.
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post #9978 of 10446 Old 06-10-2014, 02:49 PM
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I am not the only who recommends turning it on but just to minimum for both the resolution and the noise filtering. I wouldn't argue if the noise setting was set up a few clicks more. This will depend on the seating distance and on how smooth one's scree is. RC is a treatment or a function of scaling. I believe you can scale externally and still apply RC but I still consider it as part of the scaling process. Scaling introduces artifacts. The Sony's scaling artifact is most noticeably ringing which gives the illusion of greater sharpness at the cost of masking high frequency detail under the ringing. RC does other things but as you turn it up, one can observe further lets call them non ringing artifacts. The noise filter part of RC just filters further detail.

I find the need and benefit of RC to be in part a function of lens quality. The 1000/1100ES lens is really great. It doesn't need help to resolve everything. The Sony 55 with its all plastic lens needs a lot of help to improve the sharpness and much higher RC settings than minimum are necessary even at the cost of artifacting. I suspect the 600 needs a bit of RC help to make up for its front plastic element. I have no RC recommendations for the 500/600 since I have never had a 500/600.

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post #9979 of 10446 Old 06-10-2014, 04:46 PM
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Anybody in the UK got an upgrade yet? I keep nudging my dealer on this but dates keep getting pushed back...

What do you guys in England have to pay for the upgrade, here in Norway it is about 4200$ for the board and shipping.eek.gif

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post #9980 of 10446 Old 06-11-2014, 05:00 AM
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I don`t know about the UK, but in Germany it is about 3000€, which must not be the last price.

 

I found out when I connected my VW1000 with the Sony AX-100 Camcorder to display 4K-material,  that the motion enhancer is not working. Is is still the same after the upgrade?

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post #9981 of 10446 Old 06-11-2014, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sunday2 View Post

I don`t know about the UK, but in Germany it is about 3000€, which must not be the last price.

I found out when I connected my VW1000 with the Sony AX-100 Camcorder to display 4K-material,  that the motion enhancer is not working. Is is still the same after the upgrade?

It is the same as in Norway then, motionenhancer will not work with 4K material even after the upgrade.

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post #9982 of 10446 Old 06-11-2014, 05:48 AM
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The upgrade is for connectivity and really nothing else except for some changes to the RC enabling it to be much more accurately set. It allows 4K 60 in and provides the ability to play HDCP 2.2 protected material. There are a few minor changes to the software but the processing power has not be upped and the upping would have to be rather massive to provide for interpolative motion enhancement. I shudder at what would be needed for adaptive 4 vector frame creation.

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post #9983 of 10446 Old 06-12-2014, 07:06 AM
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But how is it possible that most of the 4k-TVs (including Sony) have a motionflow, which is also working, when 4K-material is displayed?

I cannot imagine that a 4000€ TV has more processing power than a 20000€ PJ.
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post #9984 of 10446 Old 06-12-2014, 08:34 AM
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Good question.

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post #9985 of 10446 Old 06-12-2014, 08:45 AM
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I'm completely guessing the 1000 is the oldest of all the Sony 4k models, given its gestation in development, and perhaps that some of the tech was purloined from slightly older Professional 4k predecessors - in toto, the chips used at the time simply weren't spec'ed for it.

Why not change with the 1100? As Mark said, the 1100 was largely to get the minimal 4k compliance offered, and not intended to be a more substantial re-engineer.

Does the 600 offer motionflow on 4k input?


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post #9986 of 10446 Old 06-12-2014, 09:43 AM
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It's the same on the 600, no motionflow on 4k input
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post #9987 of 10446 Old 06-12-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunday2 View Post
But how is it possible that most of the 4k-TVs (including Sony) have a motionflow, which is also working, when 4K-material is displayed?

I cannot imagine that a 4000€ TV has more processing power than a 20000€ PJ.

My guess is the TV downscales the material to 1080p, does the motionflow and then upscaled back to 4K. Not even the most powerful consumer GPUs out there currently can apply motion interpolation in real time to 4K content.
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post #9988 of 10446 Old 06-12-2014, 09:57 PM
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My guess is the TV downscales the material to 1080p, does the motionflow and then upscaled back to 4K. Not even the most powerful consumer GPUs out there currently can apply motion interpolation in real time to 4K content.
Or applies motion flow to a non 4K input signal input before it upscales it to UHD.

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post #9989 of 10446 Old 06-12-2014, 11:14 PM
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Or applies motion flow to a non 4K input signal input before it upscales it to UHD.
He mentioned it happens to 4k signals too.
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post #9990 of 10446 Old 06-13-2014, 07:47 AM
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Sony IR / RF glasses vs. Xpand 105 RF on the VW1100

some info on the Xpand 105 RF performance vs. the Sony IR / RF glasses

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Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014
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