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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2
10:39 AM Liked: 75
post #9991 of 10796
06-16-2014 | Posts: 2,711
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Thanks Zombie. Where do you get that Sony rj45 to vesa adapter? Is that adapter and the glasses from the following link all I would need?

http://www.amazon.com/XPAND-X105-RF-.../dp/B00BFO4XSA
OzHDHT's Avatar OzHDHT
07:06 PM Liked: 43
post #9992 of 10796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
some info on the Xpand 105 RF performance vs. the Sony IR / RF glasses

direct link to post:

Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014

Good write up Zombie. I see you mention as I kind of suspected, that the RF connection shuts off the IR. I just hooked up my adapter the other day after getting it hardwired with the RJ-45 cable. I haven't even tried it yet. That IR shut off is going to make this 2 month project of mine to get the Sony RF system working quite possibly a massive white elephant annoyingly. I still have to be able to drive the Optoma RF's(like 6 pairs vs 4 pairs Sony brand new from my TV) which I was recently told by a 3D supplier who sells on Ebay, don't use the same RF freq as the Sony/Xpand system. Any chance you've confirmed this, I don't see any Optoma glasses in your write up though? I will most like be confirming it myself in any even when I get 5 mins today.
iwanrs's Avatar iwanrs
09:59 PM Liked: 11
post #9993 of 10796
06-16-2014 | Posts: 1,013
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I need expert advice:
I am planning to install my new Sony VPL-VW1100ES projector. Ceiling Mount.
The screen is EluneVision 4K 240, 150" 16:9, gain 2.40
In Sony manual stated the location of Sony projector (lens) to screen distance is
Minimum 4.47 meter to maximum 9.73 meter.

My HT room can put the projector between 4.47 meter to 7.0 meter from screen surface.

Question:
What is the best/optimal distance to place the projector, to get the best picture quality in term of first Brightness and second other parameters such as picture quality, sharpness, finesse, color etc.

Thanks.
Seegs108's Avatar Seegs108
10:18 PM Liked: 327
post #9994 of 10796
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The more zoom used the more brightness you're going to get. Place it as close as possible if you want max brightness. This will give you the least potential for contrast though. Typically speaking max zoom=max brightness and tele-photo end of the lens=max contrast performance. The lens quality on this projector is basically unrivaled in the consumer marketplace for projectors. You shouldn't visibly notice a difference in sharpness when using max zoom versus other zoom settings. Color should remain the same and overall finesse should look indistinguishable.
work permit's Avatar work permit
10:22 PM Liked: 18
post #9995 of 10796
06-16-2014 | Posts: 2,574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
I need expert advice:
I am planning to install my new Sony VPL-VW1100ES projector. Ceiling Mount.
The screen is EluneVision 4K 240, 150" 16:9, gain 2.40
In Sony manual stated the location of Sony projector (lens) to screen distance is
Minimum 4.47 meter to maximum 9.73 meter.

My HT room can put the projector between 4.47 meter to 7.0 meter from screen surface.

Question:
What is the best/optimal distance to place the projector, to get the best picture quality in term of first Brightness and second other parameters such as picture quality, sharpness, finesse, color etc.

Thanks.
The shorter the throw, the brighter the picture. The longer the throw, the lesser the hotspotting.
iwanrs's Avatar iwanrs
10:36 PM Liked: 11
post #9996 of 10796
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Thanks Seegs, Alex,
I remember my science lesson in the school, the longer the distance, the more light will lost its energy.
I hope I know what I will do, for sure.

Do you think with EluneVision screen of 2.40 gain (glass beaded) is too bright in my bat-cave HT room ?
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich
04:44 AM Liked: 600
post #9997 of 10796
06-18-2014 | Posts: 20,275
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The only consideration for placement here, disregard all advice regarding placement to obtain brightness v contrast,l which otherwise would be a consideration, is avoiding terrible hot spotting. A good rule of thumb and one that should never be violated is to mount with a throw ratio. screen width/throw distance (of course not mixing inches on top with throw in meters. Your screen is 131 inches wide, giving you a minimum throw (to avoid hot spotting) of 2.4 x 131 inches of about 315 inches. Converting inches to meters, that means slightly over 8 meters and you only have 7. TILT This is a no go. Go to a lesser gain screen or decrease the screen size. Gain is no free lunch and any angular reflective screen with a gain say higher than 1.3 will never let you forget that you are watching off of a reflective surface. There are lots of screen material choices out there with gains that will work quite nicely with you chosen screen size and placement throw options. Your projector has considerable lumens out power. To avoid hot spotting with a 150 inch D 1.78 1.3 gain, you need a little over 4 1/3 meters. Using that as a minimum, I would use a little over the Sony stated minimum of 4.47 meters (I would use minimum of 4.55 meters to be safe).

The Sony has a minimum throw ratio of 1.25. Go slightly longer and mount no closer than 1.3 times 131 if you end up with a 1.3 gain. Just remember to avoid hot spotting use a minimum of the gain factor times the screen width. This is for a white screen. If you end up with a gray with gain, you will need to go further away. The gain will be a number less than 1 for the gray substrate and a sorayed on coating to give you the positive. Thus the sprayed on coating will probably be around 1.6 ending up with an overall gain of say 1.25. Your minimum then would be the sprayed on coating value, usually around 1.6.
Ron Jones's Avatar Ron Jones
12:46 PM Liked: 216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
Thanks Seegs, Alex,
I remember my science lesson in the school, the longer the distance, the more light will lost its energy.
I hope I know what I will do, for sure.

Do you think with EluneVision screen of 2.40 gain (glass beaded) is too bright in my bat-cave HT room ?

By EluneVision's own description of this screen it is not intended for use an bat cave. Rather it is specifically intended for use in situations where you need to overcome a lot of ambient light. Screens such as this one typically offer rather poor performance for a home theater application. Rather you should be looking for a screen material that offers a very smooth matte white surface with a gain near 1.0 (1.3 max.). Such a surface is especially important with 4K projection where you do not want to be able to see any screen texture, coarseness, or sparklies introduced in the projected image. Look at something like a Stewart screen with their StudioTek 100 or SnoMatte 100 fabric (both gain= 1.0).
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich
01:47 PM Liked: 600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
Thanks Seegs, Alex,
I remember my science lesson in the school, the longer the distance, the more light will lost its energy.
I hope I know what I will do, for sure.

Do you think with EluneVision screen of 2.40 gain (glass beaded) is too bright in my bat-cave HT room ?

The greater throw distance is not the reason for less light on the screen The loss for the extra distance is insignificant. the loss arises because you are using a zoom lens to shrink the mage size down to the screen size. R of the throw distance, provided you stay with the throw range of the lens, you will be lighting up the same screen area. What is happening is the light image exiting the lens at the greater throw is smaller than the exit image at close throw. This means the light pipe or the lens is operating at a smaller pipe if you will and you re restricting how much light the lens can transmit. The effective F stop of the lens is larger the longer he throw nd larger F stop means in essence a smaller diameter of effective lens.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich
01:53 PM Liked: 600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
By EluneVision's own description of this screen it is not intended for use an bat cave. Rather it is specifically intended for use in situations where you need to overcome a lot of ambient light. Screens such as this one typically offer rather poor performance for a home theater application. Rather you should be looking for a screen material that offers a very smooth matte white surface with a gain near 1.0 (1.3 max.). Such a surface is especially important with 4K projection where you do not want to be able to see any screen texture, coarseness, or sparklies introduced in the projected image. Look at something like a Stewart screen with their StudioTek 100 or SnoMatte 100 fabric (both gain= 1.0).

Different Stewart names for the same exact fabric. One name used by the Pro division and the other used by the Consumer division. With a screen ize of 131 inches wide, with the 1000ES etc, ther will not be enough light to adequately light up a 1.0 gain screen. I would go to a 1.3 gain such as the Studeotec 130. ultramatt 150 (1.5) gain would be another good option I have a 54 x 96 Snomat 100 screen from Stewart. I would not want to go wider than that with my Sony. 3D is pretty dim at that size.
Ron Jones's Avatar Ron Jones
07:48 PM Liked: 216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Different Stewart names for the same exact fabric. One name used by the Pro division and the other used by the Consumer division. With a screen ize of 131 inches wide, with the 1000ES etc, ther will not be enough light to adequately light up a 1.0 gain screen. I would go to a 1.3 gain such as the Studeotec 130. ultramatt 150 (1.5) gain would be another good option I have a 54 x 96 Snomat 100 screen from Stewart. I would not want to go wider than that with my Sony. 3D is pretty dim at that size.
I wasn't really considering the 3D brightness when I suggested a gain 1.0 screen. If the VW1000/VW1100 really does put out something around 1300 lumens, calibrated in 2D, then that should produce about 19.5 ft. lamberts for a 131" wide image when using a gain = 1.0 screen and that should allow for some dimming of the lamp before it is really too dim for a bat cave home theater or even using the eco lamp mode for the first few hundred hours on a new lamp. However, I do agree that a screen along the lines of a StudioTek 130 with its gain of 1.3 would be the minimum needed for 3D viewing and even then it will be fairly dim but should be usable. I know it's very subjective as to how bright is bright enough.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich
07:55 PM Liked: 600
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But it really doesn't put that much out. It been a while since I measured the lumens with a new lamp on low but it more like 1200 lumens.
Seegs108's Avatar Seegs108
08:05 PM Liked: 327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
But it really doesn't put that much out. It been a while since I measured the lumens with a new lamp on low but it more like 1200 lumens.
In low lamp or high?
millerwill's Avatar millerwill
08:52 PM Liked: 47
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Can you consider a HiPower screen (sorry, Mark!)?
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich
06:18 AM Liked: 600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
In low lamp or high?

Its been a while. In torch mode I thing you can get about 1380 with a new lamp. With the lamp on low. I remember getting around 1200 out, maybe a little less. I have a very low hour lamp in their now, put in at upgrade time. My screen is 36 sq ft in area. I can't imaging increasing the screen size by 80% and trying to light it adequately. I suppose in my dark pit, I would get use to it with about it looking on my screen in CRT days but then I had and needed a 1.3 gain for the CRT and got about 6 ft lamberts.
turls's Avatar turls
11:12 AM Liked: 48
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I think my worst fear is confirmed--a botched 1000ES to 1100ES upgrade. And I didn't catch it because I've been having Control4 issues anyway and was having control issues before the upgrade. Just had a calibrator here and he could not get into IP or RS232. No wonder I'm having a problem. Haven't done attachments on the new forum but I HAVE NO MAC ADDRESS.

And why were we trying to connect through RS232? Because the SXRD panels still have aging issues. Uggh. Double whammy.

Please somebody tell me I won't have to send it in. I'm waiting on hold for help but I haven't gotten to talk to the ES group yet. One more question: would the tech that upgraded it had to have been able to get to RS232 and IP or just RS232 to transfer the settings? Would testing those have been part of the upgrade?
Attached: IMG_1476.2014-06-19_162130.jpg (145.9 KB) 
thrang's Avatar thrang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post
I think my worst fear is confirmed--a botched 1000ES to 1100ES upgrade. And I didn't catch it because I've been having Control4 issues anyway and was having control issues before the upgrade. Just had a calibrator here and he could not get into IP or RS232. No wonder I'm having a problem. Haven't done attachments on the new forum but I HAVE NO MAC ADDRESS.

And why were we trying to connect through RS232? Because the SXRD panels still have aging issues. Uggh. Double whammy.

Please somebody tell me I won't have to send it in. I'm waiting on hold for help but I haven't gotten to talk to the ES group yet. One more question: would the tech that upgraded it had to have been able to get to RS232 and IP or just RS232 to transfer the settings? Would testing those have been part of the upgrade?
What does the bold line mean?

Your network settings don't look good...I assume you have tried setting manually, and then seeing if you can at least ping that address if it even takes?
turls's Avatar turls
12:37 PM Liked: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
What does the bold line mean?

Your network settings don't look good...I assume you have tried setting manually, and then seeing if you can at least ping that address if it even takes?
Someone else here can explain it better than I can, but Sony has issues with SXRD technology. This manifests itself by the panels shifting color over their lifetimes. The 1000ES is better (slower degradation), but not immune. I'm at about 2200 hours and it needed some special adjustments (related to compensating for the aging chip) that need to be made through software, which is when we found out about the problem.

ES Support confirms the communications are dead, and the thing needs to be sent in to fix it. There is no life in RS232 or ethernet now, I was just hoping someone here had been able to jiggle some wires connected to the board and avoid this course of action. I know somebody mentioned having to do some cleanup after an upgrade to the 1100ES...
thrang's Avatar thrang
12:44 PM Liked: 176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post
Someone else here can explain it better than I can, but Sony has issues with SXRD technology. This manifests itself by the panels shifting color over their lifetimes. The 1000ES is better (slower degradation), but not immune. I'm at about 2200 hours and it needed some special adjustments (related to compensating for the aging chip) that need to be made through software, which is when we found out about the problem.

ES Support confirms the communications are dead, and the thing needs to be sent in to fix it. There is no life in RS232 or ethernet now, I was just hoping someone here had been able to jiggle some wires connected to the board and avoid this course of action. I know somebody mentioned having to do some cleanup after an upgrade to the 1100ES...
I know about the old history with early SXRD panels, but haven't read anything about it persisting over the past several generations.

Who mentioned the SXRD "problem" with the 1000/1100? Sony tech support or an independent calibrator?

I have well over 2000 hours on my 1000/1100 and use a Lumagen to calibrate. I find it remarkable how stable the color is, mostly lamp life changes require some tweaks...
scooter_29's Avatar scooter_29
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I just had mine upgraded yesterday. Unfortunately, I cannot use it still because my room is under construction. The tech that did the install said that a small percentage of them have the network issue and he has only ran into 1 thus far that had the problem. What is strange in your case is that he said the diagnostics self test clearly identifies that the problem exists. However, he said the techs have no ability to do anything about it other than to send the projector back. My upgrade went smooth and only took 2 hours.
turls's Avatar turls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter_29 View Post
I just had mine upgraded yesterday. Unfortunately, I cannot use it still because my room is under construction. The tech that did the install said that a small percentage of them have the network issue and he has only ran into 1 thus far that had the problem. What is strange in your case is that he said the diagnostics self test clearly identifies that the problem exists. However, he said the techs have no ability to do anything about it other than to send the projector back. My upgrade went smooth and only took 2 hours.
No surprises here. I was told the mechanical "skipping" in the lens shift had only been seen ONE other time by tech support and both my first two units had the issue! So now I get the "rare" bad board too. I suspect it was a delayed failure because he would not have been able to finish the upgrade successfully if the serial port didn't work. It probably died shortly after his visit and I just didn't notice it until now. If it was DOA at least it would have just been sending the board back instead of the whole projector. smh.

Wondered if not being able to keep the old board was going to bite me. Why couldn't I send the old board back to Laredo and they copy the settings and then I could have installed the replacement myself. For that matter, why couldn't I just send the bad board to Laredo...if I did that without authorization, they probably wouldn't allow that repair...
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich
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Highly unlikely that this type of failure would develop over a short time. I had three units upgraded at my house and two went fine. The upgrade for my machinefailed. This is because the board they used, one of the first that the techs trained on, had bad software. they used that board because my kit did not arrive on time. My kit was only a board anyway, but that is anther story. Anyhow a new board arrived at my techs house the next day and he took my projector to his house in NJ to do the upgrade again. no problem and we met halfway between his house and mine to transfer the projector back to me. has worked flawlessly. If its bad, its just a mother board issue and nothing else in the projector needs be touched.
turls's Avatar turls
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post #10013 of 10796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Highly unlikely that this type of failure would develop over a short time.
Mark, not exactly sure what you mean here. I believe the scenario is this--my board was defective from the start, it just didn't manifest itself as a complete failure until after the tech left. If it was defective from the start he wouldn't have been able to finish the upgrade. Do you have a different hypothesis? I mean its possible it just went bad or something in my environment caused it--it happens, but why so soon on a new board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
If its bad, its just a mother board issue and nothing else in the projector needs be touched.
Are you encouraging me to attempt to get the repair done through means short of sending the whole projector in? If they have a way to get the settings off the board, this would be much preferable.
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2
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You certainly COULD... its just a few screws and ribbon cables from what I remember.. nothing more sinister than the inside of a desktop computer. Now whether Sony will LET you use that as a method of repair is a better question. And I have no idea. Give Chad a call I guess and discuss.
turls's Avatar turls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Give Chad a call I guess and discuss.
Good advice. Going to call the ES Integrator Support Hotline and plead my case. This is a solid unit except for the defective board and sending the whole thing in is much more of a risk than an IT professional using a YouTube video to figure out how to remove and install a board. Would be cheaper for Sony too.

Can I talk to Chad or Tony? Are they still both working for Sony?
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post
Mark, not exactly sure what you mean here. I believe the scenario is this--my board was defective from the start, it just didn't manifest itself as a complete failure until after the tech left. If it was defective from the start he wouldn't have been able to finish the upgrade. Do you have a different hypothesis? I mean its possible it just went bad or something in my environment caused it--it happens, but why so soon on a new board?



Are you encouraging me to attempt to get the repair done through means short of sending the whole projector in? If they have a way to get the settings off the board, this would be much preferable.
My suggestion is to see if they will redo the in field swap with a new board, I am reasonably sure they will not approve you doing the physical swap because of the potential of damaging one of the three very delicate edge connectors. I wouldn't be suprised if the field tech damaged one. It has happened before.
turls's Avatar turls
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
My suggestion is to see if they will redo the in field swap with a new board, I am reasonably sure they will not approve you doing the physical swap because of the potential of damaging one of the three very delicate edge connectors. I wouldn't be suprised if the field tech damaged one. It has happened before.
I'll try that angle too. Regular support wouldn't budge, but from the posts here, they obviously still have people doing these swaps in the field recently. I'd even pay a reasonable amount to avoid the shipping.

EDIT: I forgot, this is too simple to work because they won't have an old board to pull the settings from, since it is broken. I'm still going to try in case my logic is off. This is why I said I wished they had left me the old board like they did some other lucky upgraders. At least the techs that can't install these without breaking them should have left the old boards...
joerod's Avatar joerod
04:57 PM Liked: 117
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You wouldn't want to attempt it yourself. It would be like defusing a bomb.

Seriously, I have personally seen a few that for whatever reason didn't install correctly. And the few here on the forum makes enough to validate not trying it on your own. Not by any means saying you couldn't do it but there are too many variables that are happening. They will probably end up sending you a replacement.
Hang in there.
BOBCAT's Avatar BOBCAT
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turls,
If you remember who the tech was that did your upgrade, check with him, he may have saved your backup files.
The tech that did my upgrade said that he saves all the backup files he did just in case my or some other person's new board fails.
turls's Avatar turls
11:14 PM Liked: 48
post #10020 of 10796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
They will probably end up sending you a replacement.
Well, Tony is the one that I talked to originally (Chad and Tony are the ones at the hotline, from what I understand after reviewing old posts). And he wouldn't budge on sending it in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post
turls,
If you remember who the tech was that did your upgrade, check with him, he may have saved your backup files.
The tech that did my upgrade said that he saves all the backup files he did just in case my or some other person's new board fails.
I would have asked for a copy of my backup files myself if I knew that was an option or if it might have helped down the road. I thought the consensus was most of these guys doing the upgrade were getting laid off soon after this project completed anyway? I might try to contact him if I can find that information, but I think he was an actual Sony employee.
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