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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Sony VPL-vw1000
OzHDHT's Avatar OzHDHT 03:08 AM 06-22-2014
Guys have a real classic toe to toe going on here in the puck thread with a guy who's deluded enough to champion the quality coming out of the X1 as it were a accurate representation of what the source transfers should look like. I'm surmising he's looking at an image on the a panel, not a projector or no way would he be this deluded Sony 4K Media Streamer FMP-X1 $699 Coming Summer 2013-

mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 07:25 AM 06-22-2014
Do you mean he thinks what comes out of the puck is an accurate representation of what was fed into it? I would agree with him. If you are saying he thinks what is fed into the puck is an adequate representation of the source material it was created from, I would agree with you. I am not sure what an "accurate representation of what the source transfers should like like" means. Its a hybrid sentence. It is indeed an accurate representation of the source transfers. He is right. What does "should look like doing in the sentewnce. If he is saying the transfers are an adequate representation of the source it was made from, I would agree with you depending on the source material. For example, if you scan a film and shove it into the puck, the scan will probably may be an accurate representation of the source for reasons of bit rates, lengths, chroma subsampling yada yada. If the source, say a Bluray upscaled to 4K, it is both adequate and adequate in and out of the puck.
thrang's Avatar thrang 07:36 AM 06-22-2014
Perhaps the simplest way to describe Sony's first 4k offering is that, in comparison with the same high quality blu ray titles, the download service quality is occasionally marginally better, often no better, and in several cases worse.

Whether this is due to poor original transfers (which I doubt), or (much more likely) the current compression required to achieve a zippy multi-hour download, who knows. Perhaps h.265 will help.

Now, I just purchased the Sony 4k FDR-AX-100 camcorder. While not perfect, the resolution this provides, while still compressed, is much much better than anything I've seen on the FMP.

I've posted the same in that thread.
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 02:22 PM 06-22-2014
I keep going back and forth on that camcorder. I want it for shooting kids sports, but wish it were 60p for that purpose. The next up Sony 4k camcorder that DOES shoot 4k60p looks like a floating movie rig on your shoulder compared to this one though.
thrang's Avatar thrang 03:07 PM 06-22-2014
For anyone that has a fast 4k capable computer they want to connect to their 1100, here's a link to a YouTube clip of about 5mins of 4k footage from the camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMLYu5jvH9c

Pardon the cliche's garden shots - I put it together for my wife who's is traveling overseas (but she cannot watch it since YouTube is blocked in that country)

YouTube's required settings definitely compress, so you will some artifacts that are not there watching directly from the camera to the 1100. You might need to go YouTube directly to choose the highest resolution is the gear icon doesn't appear in the embedded version. Go full screen and take a look...

This was edited in Final Cut Pro X..the problem at the moment is how do I actually play the complete project short of having a powerful computer connected to my projector, which I don't.

The new Sony X10 player states a firmware update will allow transfer and playback of XAVC-S files from the FDR, but I generally like to edit my videos. FCP currently doesn't support outputting to the XAVC-S format, only Sony Vegas does (and even there I'm presuming it will work on the FMP-X10)

Maybe the Nuvola player, but I really don't want to buy something just for home movies. Plus, only the high end $699 unit has separate audio out, which I would need since I don't have an HDMI 2.0 AVR...

Bleeding edge is challenging..
Chosen's Avatar Chosen 03:22 PM 06-22-2014
Thrang,
Your video shows as private and unviewable.
thrang's Avatar thrang 03:51 PM 06-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen View Post
Thrang,
Your video shows as private and unviewable.
Thought it was only unlisted...try it now and let me know.
Chosen's Avatar Chosen 03:53 PM 06-22-2014
Works great now.
turls's Avatar turls 08:46 AM 06-23-2014
3D Glasses again.

These are no longer sold directly by Amazon, and you have to buy from a 3rd party seller:
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BG-ZF21...dp/B008PQJXFO/

On the product page, it points you to a "newer model of this item":
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-ZF2300G...dp/B00K8BK6EQ/

But right there on that product page:
"Optoma ZF2300 glasses are compatible with BC300 emitters only; they are NOT compatible with the older generation RF emitters"

For anybody that hasn't given up on 3D, what are you buying?
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 08:54 AM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
I keep going back and forth on that camcorder. I want it for shooting kids sports, but wish it were 60p for that purpose. The next up Sony 4k camcorder that DOES shoot 4k60p looks like a floating movie rig on your shoulder compared to this one though.

I hate to think what the picture would like like if it were really 60p! I don't think you meant a p to follow that 60.
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 08:57 AM 06-23-2014
Huh? yeah... 4k60p

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=REG&A=details

Maybe I don't get what you are saying...
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 08:57 AM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post
3D Glasses again.

These are no longer sold directly by Amazon, and you have to buy from a 3rd party seller:
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BG-ZF21...dp/B008PQJXFO/

On the product page, it points you to a "newer model of this item":
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-ZF2300G...dp/B00K8BK6EQ/

But right there on that product page:
"Optoma ZF2300 glasses are compatible with BC300 emitters only; they are NOT compatible with the older generation RF emitters"

For anybody that hasn't given up on 3D, what are you buying?

I probably have more 3D glasses than 3D discs at this point. I may buy soe 3D discs in the future but I doubt I will feel the need to buy different glasses.
turls's Avatar turls 09:24 AM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I probably have more 3D glasses than 3D discs at this point. I may buy soe 3D discs in the future but I doubt I will feel the need to buy different glasses.
I'm still buying because I don't have enough for typical viewing parties--I'm not switching to different ones, I've got a mix of IR and RF now. Well, I have enough with the $20 PS3 glasses, but they won't work in my environment without the external emitter and the problem is getting that emitter to the front of the room.

I have tons of 3D discs and there is still plenty of good content being released. Just finished watching Hobbit 1 extended in 3D last night on a new bulb with D-BOX and it was fantastic.
Ron Jones's Avatar Ron Jones 06:34 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Huh? yeah... 4k60p

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=REG&A=details

Maybe I don't get what you are saying...
I think Mark is pointing out the correct terminology would be 2160p/60 or just 4K/60 since all 4K video is progressive by the existing standards for the 4K and UHD formats. In any case the 'p' does not come after the refresh rate when listing the video format (e.g, it's 1080p/24 and not 1080/24p).
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 06:36 PM 06-23-2014
Ah ok. Fair enough.
thrang's Avatar thrang 07:35 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
I think Mark is pointing out the correct terminology would be 2160p/60 or just 4K/60 since all 4K video is progressive by the existing standards for the 4K and UHD formats. In any case the 'p' does not come after the refresh rate when listing the video format (e.g, it's 1080p/24 and not 1080/24p).
Though our projectors show, for example, 1080/60p if you look at the signal info in the Information menu
OzHDHT's Avatar OzHDHT 07:43 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post
3D Glasses again.

These are no longer sold directly by Amazon, and you have to buy from a 3rd party seller:
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BG-ZF21...dp/B008PQJXFO/

On the product page, it points you to a "newer model of this item":
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-ZF2300G...dp/B00K8BK6EQ/

But right there on that product page:
"Optoma ZF2300 glasses are compatible with BC300 emitters only; they are NOT compatible with the older generation RF emitters"

For anybody that hasn't given up on 3D, what are you buying?
Interesting, I've just ordered 2 ZF2300 to see if they have compatibility with the newer Sony/Xpand Vesa RF adapter. If they work with that I could farm off my old IR/RF transmitter to my other projector and use my 5 pairs of ZF2100's with it. That would give me 4 pairs of Sony RF and 2 pairs of ZF2300's to use with the 1100.
mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 08:15 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Though our projectors show, for example, 1080/60p if you look at the signal info in the Information menu

Sony has been known to incorrectly label things. In their 600 manual, they refer to the contrast enhancement control as increasing sharpness.

Obviously a resolution can be expressed as either progressive or interlaced depending on what it is. the most common where both are used are for 480i and 480p and today we have 1080i as a HD broadcast standard along with 720p and by cable et al also 1080p. that's the place where a p or i belongs. what follows could be a frame rate such as 24 fps or for video in essence a refresh rate of 30 or 60. No p. its frames or cycles.
joerod's Avatar joerod 09:20 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post
3D Glasses again.

These are no longer sold directly by Amazon, and you have to buy from a 3rd party seller:
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-BG-ZF21...dp/B008PQJXFO/

On the product page, it points you to a "newer model of this item":
http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-ZF2300G...dp/B00K8BK6EQ/

But right there on that product page:
"Optoma ZF2300 glasses are compatible with BC300 emitters only; they are NOT compatible with the older generation RF emitters"

For anybody that hasn't given up on 3D, what are you buying?
Still buying the now "older" ones since they are compatible with my Monster emitter. I have about 10 pairs now (including two sony) so I should be good for the long haul.


mark haflich's Avatar mark haflich 01:32 AM 06-24-2014
Only 10? I only can seat 12 in my theater. What do the big boys with theaters that seat over 20 do?
joerod's Avatar joerod 03:27 AM 06-24-2014
Well technically 12 with the two kids pairs from Sony.

With our two rows of 4 (love seat in the middle of both rows) we can do 8-10 depending on the size or if there are kids. Definitely 8 comfortably. I also have room on the sides where I have brought in a few more chairs (Super Bowl) but anymore than that then I am sure we are breaking the fire code!
turls's Avatar turls 09:49 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Sony has announced a new UHD server called the FMP-X10 available in the USA this summer at a price yet to be determined. The specs and other stuff can be found on the Sony site. It will work with the tablet but comes with a remote control. Only 1TB of internal storage but the currently "in with us" external storage device is the Western Digital 4TB at $149 so you can transfer all the stuff on your FMP-X1 to the external drive and plug it in to the FMP-X10. The X10 does do 60 in and out unlike the X1 which is limited to 30 in and out. Its HDMI 2.0 and also adds H265 while maintaining H264.
Does anybody know if this remote will be IR or Bluetooth? I think I've read everything I can Google about this box and can't find that information.
OzHDHT's Avatar OzHDHT 08:36 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post
Does anybody know if this remote will be IR or Bluetooth? I think I've read everything I can Google about this box and can't find that information.
I don't know that anyone will be able to confirm that till they ship in a few weeks. I certainly haven't come across any info. I only just noticed that it had its own remote a couple of days ago. Guess I'll be retiring my separately purchased Xperia Tablet to the bottom draw. Mind you I'll be more than happy to not have to be messing around with wirelessly connecting the tablet and getting it to comm properly with the player when using the X10.
thrang's Avatar thrang 08:39 PM 06-24-2014
I expect (eh, hope...) there is IP support as well...
thestewman's Avatar thestewman 11:18 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
I don't know that anyone will be able to confirm that till they ship in a few weeks. I certainly haven't come across any info. I only just noticed that it had its own remote a couple of days ago. Guess I'll be retiring my separately purchased Xperia Tablet to the bottom draw. Mind you I'll be more than happy to not have to be messing around with wirelessly connecting the tablet and getting it to comm properly with the player when using the X10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I expect (eh, hope...) there is IP support as well...
The tablet is still a cool way to view the available videos and handle the streaming,searches etc that you cannot do with a remote control unless you incorporate and use your projector or display.
OzHDHT's Avatar OzHDHT 11:53 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post
The tablet is still a cool way to view the available videos and handle the streaming,searches etc that you cannot do with a remote control unless you incorporate and use your projector or display.
I just find getting wifi to stretch from my router to without extender (X1 didn't like the use of extender) a bit of a hassle. Have to be mindful of the signal strength all time or the software would hiccup heaps. Practicality of old fashion remote will do for me to browse everything on screen and it ends up being IR or RF(doubt Sony would implement RF), it will be really easy to integrate with my Harmony Ultimate remote.
sunday2's Avatar sunday2 06:27 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
For anyone that has a fast 4k capable computer they want to connect to their 1100, here's a link to a YouTube clip of about 5mins of 4k footage from the camera

Pardon the cliche's garden shots - I put it together for my wife who's is traveling overseas (but she cannot watch it since YouTube is blocked in that country)

YouTube's required settings definitely compress, so you will some artifacts that are not there watching directly from the camera to the 1100. You might need to go YouTube directly to choose the highest resolution is the gear icon doesn't appear in the embedded version. Go full screen and take a look...
Congratulations, I bought the AX100 one months ago. In the beginning I was not very happy, because when I looked at my first results with the VW1000, I found out that the montion enhancer in 4K is not working.

I was very impressed by the sharpness of details in 4K, but you have to learn again how to move this camera or better not to move it.

So I hope you don`t mind if I make the proposal, you should move this camera slower, than the gardenvideo would be even more impressive than it is already.

By the way to play 4k on a PC you now only need a videocard for e.g. 150$, but for cutting it should be a high performance PC, which I bought last November.

If You Tube is blocked there are unblocking programmes. May-be even 4K-downloader can provide a solution, but I am not sure of that.
thrang's Avatar thrang 06:29 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post
The tablet is still a cool way to view the available videos and handle the streaming,searches etc that you cannot do with a remote control unless you incorporate and use your projector or display.
Personally, I hate having the tablet just for that. A proper on screen GUI is much better, especially when making a decision with others watching with you.

I already use an ipad to control everything, so if Sony would out an app out to control it, I would probably at least browse it the service more. As it stands, the tablet is plugged in on a table, collecting dust, and I never remember to grab it before settling in.
robmarti@tampa's Avatar robmarti@tampa 07:17 AM 06-25-2014
Hey guys, I haven't been able to try it but anyone with a NVid video card with 1000 or 1100 with hdmi2.0 can try this.


Nvid released recent drivers that push 4K 60p over hdmi 1.4 bandwith of existing video cards using 4:2:0 sampling or 4:0:0 ( I forget). Some other people on their sony 4K TV's, on other forums, have had success running games at that resolution, speed and like it. They say though not good for text due to the less color detail but not noticed on video games. SO if you want to try games on the projector at full 4k and good frequency, try it out. I am hopefully going to move my computer and try today or tomorrow and will post results.


-Rob
thrang's Avatar thrang 07:19 AM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by robmarti@tampa View Post
Hey guys, I haven't been able to try it but anyone with a NVid video card with 1000 or 1100 with hdmi2.0 can try this.


Nvid released recent drivers that push 4K 60p over hdmi 1.4 bandwith of existing video cards using 4:2:0 sampling or 4:0:0 ( I forget). Some other people on their sony 4K TV's, on other forums, have had success running games at that resolution, speed and like it. They say though not good for text due to the less color detail but not noticed on video games. SO if you want to try games on the projector at full 4k and good frequency, try it out. I am hopefully going to move my computer and try today or tomorrow and will post results.


-Rob
Pretty sure it's 4:2:0 just like blu ray...
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