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post #10291 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 01:11 PM
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Hi. That won't fix a high spotting issue which is a function of throw and screen gain and becomes more complex with a gray substrate and sprayed on gain which in that case becomes determinative of the minimum throw.

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post #10292 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Hi. That won't fix a high spotting issue which is a function of throw and screen gain and becomes more complex with a gray substrate and sprayed on gain which in that case becomes determinative of the minimum throw.
Mark,
Your warning is well noted.
As the specification say the surface color is white not grey.
I have not opened the packing. I don't know if it is gray color?
They mention also No Hot Spotting (?)
And they recommend to place the Sony above my head, which is 5.6m - 5.7m distance from screen.
Screen material:
PureBright 4K 240 - 2.4 Gain White Material.

This is the screen link:

http://www.elunevision.com/purebright.html

Can you please check and commend?
Thanks.
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post #10293 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 06:04 PM
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The description of this screen sounds like it is retro-reflective, like the Dalite HP. Independent of what Mark H says, the latter does NOT hot spot, even at the closest location of the projector (Sony1100 in my case, with the HP2.4). Whether or not the Elune behaves this way, I do not know.
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post #10294 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 06:23 PM
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not the w/shortest throw bu i can report no hotspoting on either the 2.8 hp or the 2.4..
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post #10295 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 07:47 PM
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Do you mean that it is safe to place the Sony1100 4.5 to 5.0 meter distance from my 2.4 gain 150" screen?
I am doing the installation as we speak now.
Any other advises?
Thanks
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post #10296 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
Do you mean that it is safe to place the Sony1100 4.5 to 5.0 meter distance from my 2.4 gain 150" screen?
I am doing the installation as we speak now.
Any other advises?
Thanks
The literature for that screen material says it's a good option regarding hotspotting, but it's a relatively new material so there's no way to be sure it won't have an issue. If you can, place the projector farther back to avoid this issue.

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post #10297 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 08:22 PM
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I will test and check the hot spot by moving the Sony back and fort on a coffee table, before I fix it to ceiling mount.
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post #10298 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 08:28 PM
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I looked up the specs on that screen material. It is unclear whether it is like most screens which are angular reflective and will hot spot if the minimum throw is less than the screen gain (assuming a white screen). Of course retroreflective screens (the HP 2.4 and 2.8 by da-lite Screen company) do not hot spot and the throw distance rules do not apply. Dr. Miller, you know I know this nor did I say to the contrary. Of course to get full gain froma retroreflective screen the screen needs to be the same angle above the screen as the eye angle is below.

The issue is whether the Elunevision bright white 2.4 gain is a retroreflective screen. Does anybody know? Does elunevision know/ I will call them in the morning to find out so we can appropriately advise our foreign friend in his set up.

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post #10299 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
I will test and check the hot spot by moving the Sony back and fort on a coffee table, before I fix it to ceiling mount.

So you know, you test by putting up a white full screen size field. Do any of the areas of the screen look brighter. sit in one position, say horizontal screen center when you do this. the brightness will not look uniform and certain areas will appear brighter. These are hot spots.

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post #10300 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
So you know, you test by putting up a white full screen size field. Do any of the areas of the screen look brighter. sit in one position, say horizontal screen center when you do this. the brightness will not look uniform and certain areas will appear brighter. These are hot spots.
The elune info says that it reflects light back along the axis to the projector, i.e., sounds like retro-reflective.
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post #10301 of 10800 Old 08-14-2014, 09:09 PM
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EluneVision's Dave said : No, hot spotting will not be an issue.
Hopefully he is right, he must know for sure.

By the way, what test picture best to check for HOT SPOT?
I have HTPC Windows7 connect to Denon AV Receiver AVR4520CI as pictures source.
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post #10302 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 06:13 AM
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A white frame, as distinguished from a black frame or field.

It looks like this screen is a retroreflective. If that is so, you won't get hot spotting, BUT if you want the 2.4 gain the screen is capable of (assuming the gain number is accurate) the angle the projector of the projector to the screen needs to be the same and opposite the angle of your eyes to the screen. I am having difficulty expressing this. Basically if your eyes are say 2 ft below the horizontal line dividing the the top from the bottom of the screen and the projector is over your head, the lens on the projector will need to be 2 ft above that center line. Anything will work and deviation from this will cost you some gain but so what? God forbid you get only 2.176 gain.

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post #10303 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 08:12 AM
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I managed to fix the screen only today.
I put Sony on coffee table and place it at about 5 meter distance from that 2.4 screen.

Mark, there is no hot spot which we all worry about. color are amazing, my first impression.
Tomorrow is the judgment day, to hang that monster Sony on ceiling mount.
This 25kg plus beast is a real test to my HT ceiling structure, and other HT components too.
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post #10304 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 10:39 AM
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Can someone tell me how to adjust picture SKEW in Sony1100.
There is nothing I can find in Sony manual.
I have to adjust the bottom part of picture to fill the full screen.
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post #10305 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
Sorry folks, I am desperate. I snitch into this thread for Sony 1100 (Sony 1000 and 1100 are twin sisters).

I am about to install my Sony 1100. Ceiling mount.
I tried to find any unofficial or Sony official "Installation Manual", but no where to find ?
Available only Instruction manual for using the Projector, Remote etc.
Usually Sony issue 2 kind of manuals, Instruction and INSTALLATION manuals.

This is odd enough, for this kind of high-end product Sony try to save some paper cost or web-listing ?

Can someone help me and give me hints, links etc.

Thanks
Sent you an email.

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post #10306 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 10:50 AM
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There are no adjustments for adjust things like that in the Sony controls. You must make the lens front exactly parallel to the plane of the screen, both in up down tilt and side to side rotation. When you get a perfect rectangular by physically adjusting the projector mount, you can then use lens shift to center the picture up down and left right on the screen. Your mount has up down tilt for making the top and bottom of the lens front parallel to the screen. Left right edge parallel is reached by rotaing the projector around its horizonal center. That's why most use a ceiling flange and a small pole to attach to the mount to provide the rotational ability you need.

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post #10307 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwanrs View Post
I managed to fix the screen only today.
I put Sony on coffee table and place it at about 5 meter distance from that 2.4 screen.

Mark, there is no hot spot which we all worry about. color are amazing, my first impression.
Tomorrow is the judgment day, to hang that monster Sony on ceiling mount.
This 25kg plus beast is a real test to my HT ceiling structure, and other HT components too.
where are the pictures?
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post #10308 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
I don't think a demo will produce the correct results.


Different rooms, different size screens, just never works.


The only way to tell is in my room next to my 500/600 and that's not easy to setup.
I really need someone from here who has set the two up side by side and compared.
Black levels are better on the VW1100. I have them side by side.

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post #10309 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raczkri View Post
where are the pictures?
I am only halfway done.
Tomorrow will be second round of fixing Sony on ceiling mount.
Then I must twist and turn that mount to get perfect rectangular picture like Mark explained.
Eventually get some nice pictures.
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post #10310 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
There are no adjustments for adjust things like that in the Sony controls. You must make the lens front exactly parallel to the plane of the screen, both in up down tilt and side to side rotation. When you get a perfect rectangular by physically adjusting the projector mount, you can then use lens shift to center the picture up down and left right on the screen. Your mount has up down tilt for making the top and bottom of the lens front parallel to the screen. Left right edge parallel is reached by rotaing the projector around its horizonal center. That's why most use a ceiling flange and a small pole to attach to the mount to provide the rotational ability you need.
Yes Mark, I have CHIEF pole and mount prepared for my Sony.
Hope I can get that perfect rectangular picture.
Thanks again.
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post #10311 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Black levels are better on the VW1100. I have them side by side.
And sharpness ?
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post #10312 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 01:18 PM
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Of course sharpness. People who had both to compare side by side have so remarked. But the 600 lens is quite adequate for normal content viewing especially if you crank up the RC a bit. See zombie10K 's posts.

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post #10313 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
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Black levels are better on the VW1100. I have them side by side.

How much better are the blacks on the 1100 over the 500/600?
5%, 10%, 20%???
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post #10314 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
How much better are the blacks on the 1100 over the 500/600?
5%, 10%, 20%???
Check out the cine4home review on both. They postulate a 20% decrease in on/off contrast by stepping down to the 500ES. You also get less light output, much lower ANSI contrast, and lesser lens quality.

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post #10315 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 03:54 PM
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We have had these discussions before. The issue is the 600 is about 1/2 the price of the 1100. Obviously, the 1100es is not 2x better than the 600. Re black levels your eyes are not linear so the perceived difference will be less than 20%. The ANSI difference will be more apparent. The difference in lumens will be minimal perceived brightness of the 1100 over the 600 on all but the tiniest screen. The lens difference is apparent depending on what you are displaying. For normal movies, i doubt you can see much difference but on fine stuff it is there and you can see it. The lens can be adjusted for by slightly increasing the RC settings on the 600 vs the 1100. This will cause some lost of detail. They are both very good sports cars. The 1100ES is higher performance but if you are going to drive the 600 at normal speeds, it will hold up well. On the open track, pushed, the 1100 will beat it.

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post #10316 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 07:27 PM
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Humble question:
Will Sony 4K Projectors upscale ALL videos feeding to Projector automatically to 4k resolution ? There is no "4K" button on remote or in menu.
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post #10317 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 07:35 PM
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The Sony's native panel chips are 4096 x 2160. The aspect ratio on the Sony if set to normal will light up only 3840 x 2160 which is UHD Most use it that way. Anything input into the machine will be deinterlaced (if necessary) and scaled to 3840 x 2160. When you set the machine up using the zoom control be sure to use the 1.78 edge markers, the test pattern will use all 4096 x 2160 but your content with the aspect set to normal will only lite up to where those edge markers were. Going from screen center out to the edges, the first set of vertical lines are for 1.22, the second set are for 1.78. Use those.

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post #10318 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 07:54 PM
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Yes, it will upscale all video feed in and output it at it's native 4K. It's a 4K projector with 4K panels, so it has to by design.

The question for some purists is how good of a job does it do at upscaling. Mark finds it "rings" and prefers running his sources (mostly TV sports) through a newer 4K-out Lumagen. My sources (TV, BD, etc.) are all digitized and stored on Raid and running through HTPC at 4K@30 with MadVR / JRiver, so I don't really notice any upscaling issues. My other source is the 4K puck which is as good as the source material. I'm waiting for a 4K-in/out solution from Lumagen for the best video and switching solution, but in no rush until an Oppo 4K BD is out.

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post #10319 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 08:05 PM
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It is 8 years ago year 2006 1080p launch all over again, but more exciting of course.
Who can imagine the technology will go that far, and keep going . . .
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post #10320 of 10800 Old 08-15-2014, 09:19 PM
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yes we have come a long way from the days of the Kloss Novabeam and the Sony KP 5010 from the late 1970's.

I am sure Mark remembers these well



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