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post #10351 of 10362 Old 08-23-2014, 10:46 AM
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I don't think Sony is selling it in the US. In Europe yes but you have to go through a very select commercial theater sales channel. Same if it were available in the US. I will check with my contacts and contact you with anything I find out.

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post #10352 of 10362 Old 08-23-2014, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rabident View Post
Anyone know the step up in price for the higher end commercial Sony 515 / 510. I've never seen a company make something so hard to buy. I can't even get a price. I've seen the 615 listed at $100k, which makes it easy to dismiss. The small DCI DLP projectors aren't much more than the vw1100. The 515 was Sony's "small" DCI offering, with the 510 cheaper still. For most people, the vw1100 makes a lot of sense. But if I want a 16' wide 1.0 gain AT screen to watch 3D movies, then my needs are different. If pricing is in the stratosphere then I will need to make compromises elsewhere, but I hate to make compromises just to fit into Sony's predetermined opinion of what I need as a consumer. Customer needs a price check. How hard is that? Next to impossible as it turns out.
I will see what we can do.

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post #10353 of 10362 Old 08-23-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I looked up the specs on that screen material. It is unclear whether it is like most screens which are angular reflective and will hot spot if the minimum throw is less than the screen gain (assuming a white screen). Of course retroreflective screens (the HP 2.4 and 2.8 by da-lite Screen company) do not hot spot and the throw distance rules do not apply. Dr. Miller, you know I know this nor did I say to the contrary. Of course to get full gain froma retroreflective screen the screen needs to be the same angle above the screen as the eye angle is below.

The issue is whether the Elunevision bright white 2.4 gain is a retroreflective screen. Does anybody know? Does elunevision know/ I will call them in the morning to find out so we can appropriately advise our foreign friend in his set up.
A whole ago, I compared samples, and the EV 2.4 screen appeared to be the identical material to the Da-lite High Power 2.4, or else extremely close. It was definitely retroreflective.

It was a nice screen, and it gave stunning results for 3D or very large screen sizes.

Edit: Looking back at their site, they have different names now, so I can't say whether it's the same material.
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post #10354 of 10362 Old 08-23-2014, 09:39 PM
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I doubt this company does any more than procure fabric from a variety of sources and sell it with a frame. So I wouldn't be surprised if they purchased HP from Da-lite in bulk. Almost anybody can start up a screen company now with very little investment. Lots of OEM screen companies in China just itching to sell their screens to american relabelers.

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post #10355 of 10362 Old 08-24-2014, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post
Anyone know the step up in price for the higher end commercial Sony 515 / 510. I've never seen a company make something so hard to buy. I can't even get a price. I've seen the 615 listed at $100k, which makes it easy to dismiss. The small DCI DLP projectors aren't much more than the vw1100. The 515 was Sony's "small" DCI offering, with the 510 cheaper still. For most people, the vw1100 makes a lot of sense. But if I want a 16' wide 1.0 gain AT screen to watch 3D movies, then my needs are different. If pricing is in the stratosphere then I will need to make compromises elsewhere, but I hate to make compromises just to fit into Sony's predetermined opinion of what I need as a consumer. Customer needs a price check. How hard is that? Next to impossible as it turns out.
Call me tomorrow and we can discuss the 515.

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post #10356 of 10362 Old Today, 07:28 AM
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Please provide Advice on HTPC

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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
My sources (TV, BD, etc.) are all digitized and stored on Raid and running through HTPC at 4K@30 with MadVR / JRiver, so I don't really notice any upscaling issues.

I have had the VPL1000 for two years. I have upgraded it to the VPL1100 with the Puck. Have an Oppo and Lumagen. I like the unit a lot, but am disappointed with the 4K puck quality. I have never seen PC gaming on my system. I am thinking about building a 4k HTPC. Before I take the time and money to do this, I would like to know your thoughts.
  • Is 4K from HTPC better than the puck?
  • Is there much 4K content available via the Internet?
  • Do 4K PC games look better (more impressive) than 4K video?
  • Will a low end 4K video card get the job done, or do I need a mid to high grade one?
  • Recommendations on components for HTPC setup would be nice.
  • Will need a wireless Keyboard and mouse - any recommendations?
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post #10357 of 10362 Old Today, 08:18 AM
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For those that might be interested in upgrading to a a full DCI system with a DCI server and getting DCI content, the sony 5165 is indeed now available for purchase for HT use, give me a call if interested. A new consumer HT DCI forum has been started a few days ago, DCI-theater.com. See you there.

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post #10358 of 10362 Old Today, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremehomtheatr View Post
I have had the VPL1000 for two years. I have upgraded it to the VPL1100 with the Puck. Have an Oppo and Lumagen. I like the unit a lot, but am disappointed with the 4K puck quality. I have never seen PC gaming on my system. I am thinking about building a 4k HTPC. Before I take the time and money to do this, I would like to know your thoughts.
  • Is 4K from HTPC better than the puck?
  • Is there much 4K content available via the Internet?
  • Do 4K PC games look better (more impressive) than 4K video?
  • Will a low end 4K video card get the job done, or do I need a mid to high grade one?
  • Recommendations on components for HTPC setup would be nice.
  • Will need a wireless Keyboard and mouse - any recommendations?
1920x1080 PCs can be built very cheaply using a NUC and it's decent on-board Intel graphics. I'm using one in my family room. 4K PCs require a very good video card and therefore the "stuff" that goes around it (case, CPU, MB, memory, SSD, etc.), so it costs more. I don't really see the need for an i7, so went with an i5. Unless you have a need for the top of the line OC gaming machine or other reason, an i5 will do just fine for an HTPC. I can only speak to my video card - the AMD Radeon R9 290, which is a good bargain for 4K video card IMHO. It's extremely stable and displays everything I've thrown at it without any problems. Again, I don't need to OC or have the top of the line. I just tried to find the sweet spot for an HTPC build that would last. I highly recommend going with a SSD for at least the OS. 120Gb should be more than plenty for your needs. However, content takes up room and I recommend storing that outside the HTPC on a RAID. I use Synology for it's stability, expansion capabilities, and features. If you go that route, spend the money on quality HDDs. I went with cheaper 3Gb Seagates. They work when they work, but fail too often. Seagate will send you a replacement quickly for $9.99 shipping and return of defect, but their warranty is now only one year. If I had to do it again, I'd spend more for drives with longer warranty designed for RAID use, probably from WD. As for wireless keyboard and mouse, I like trackballs and use an all-in-one RF solution that has a thumball and buttons located at the top for my right hand. The one that I have for the HT is no longer made. The closest I found to it that I use with my family room NUC HTPC is a SIIG keyboard for under $50. It's a little on the lower quality side, but seems to work OK for me so far. I guess Logitech would be a good choice, especially if you prefer separate KB and mouse or a trackpad.

I think the 4K coming out of the HTPC is excellent do for the most part because of the software (JRiver and it's use of MadVR, etc). The Radeon 290 helps too. I think the puck probably looks just as good. The issue with the puck is that it's all based on content. It's limited to what Sony puts on their site and it's a joke since it's only a subset of Columbia (Sony) movies and some shorts. A few of the shorts look great, so the potential is there. I downloaded and watched The Amazing Spider-Man II using the voucher. It looked at least as good as BD, but I'd still call it 4K-lite. The 4K on the puck is only as good as the source. The same is true really for any source including the HTPC. There are some nice shorts and clips for playback from the HTPC, but the available content is very limited too. 4K source is just not here yet which is why we're all waiting for 4K BD.

I'm not a big gamer, so can't really speak much to it. I'd ask others like Zombie about it. What I've seen looks good, but is it more impressive than the best 4K shorts? No.

...Steve
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post #10359 of 10362 Old Today, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
1920x1080 PCs can be built very cheaply using a NUC and it's decent on-board Intel graphics. I'm using one in my family room. 4K PCs require a very good video card and therefore the "stuff" that goes around it (case, CPU, MB, memory, SSD, etc.), so it costs more. I don't really see the need for an i7, so went with an i5. Unless you have a need for the top of the line OC gaming machine or other reason, an i5 will do just fine for an HTPC. I can only speak to my video card - the AMD Radeon R9 290, which is a good bargain for 4K video card IMHO. It's extremely stable and displays everything I've thrown at it without any problems. Again, I don't need to OC or have the top of the line. I just tried to find the sweet spot for an HTPC build that would last. I highly recommend going with a SSD for at least the OS. 120Gb should be more than plenty for your needs. However, content takes up room and I recommend storing that outside the HTPC on a RAID. I use Synology for it's stability, expansion capabilities, and features. If you go that route, spend the money on quality HDDs. I went with cheaper 3Gb Seagates. They work when they work, but fail too often. Seagate will send you a replacement quickly for $9.99 shipping and return of defect, but their warranty is now only one year. If I had to do it again, I'd spend more for drives with longer warranty designed for RAID use, probably from WD. As for wireless keyboard and mouse, I like trackballs and use an all-in-one RF solution that has a thumball and buttons located at the top for my right hand. The one that I have for the HT is no longer made. The closest I found to it that I use with my family room NUC HTPC is a SIIG keyboard for under $50. It's a little on the lower quality side, but seems to work OK for me so far. I guess Logitech would be a good choice, especially if you prefer separate KB and mouse or a trackpad.

I think the 4K coming out of the HTPC is excellent do for the most part because of the software (JRiver and it's use of MadVR, etc). The Radeon 290 helps too. I think the puck probably looks just as good. The issue with the puck is that it's all based on content. It's limited to what Sony puts on their site and it's a joke since it's only a subset of Columbia (Sony) movies and some shorts. A few of the shorts look great, so the potential is there. I downloaded and watched The Amazing Spider-Man II using the voucher. It looked at least as good as BD, but I'd still call it 4K-lite. The 4K on the puck is only as good as the source. The same is true really for any source including the HTPC. There are some nice shorts and clips for playback from the HTPC, but the available content is very limited too. 4K source is just not here yet which is why we're all waiting for 4K BD.

I'm not a big gamer, so can't really speak much to it. I'd ask others like Zombie about it. What I've seen looks good, but is it more impressive than the best 4K shorts? No.

All good advice, I would just add that there are three things missing in ALL GPUs right now: HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and HEVC acceleration.


While these are not essential to play the kind of 4K crappy content we can get on the internet at the moment, it will be necessary to be able to play 4K bluray (from a 4K PC bluray reader, likely based on BDXL) and other protected content using commercial software players like future versions of PDVD/TMT etc. These players will NOT be able to play 4K blurays without HDCP 2.2 support in the GPU, just like they need HDCP to play bluray discs.


The reason why jRiver/MadVR can deal with 4K content (just) is because of its poor quality: the same old rec 709 / YCC 420 8 bits of bluray and using h264 compression (which has hardware support in existing GPUs), just the resolution is bumped up from 1080p to 2160p. When we start seeing 10 or 12 bits content in Rec 2020 or DCI compressed using HEVC/h265), all existing cards without HEVC hardware support will choke. Try to play any 4K content with 10 bits bit depth, they already choke.


If you plan to rip everything and use only open source software, then HEVC acceleration is the only thing that really matters for film playback, HDMI 2.0a also important to play 50/60p 4K video content (better than the 420 8bits limitation of HDMI 2.0b) and possibly bluray 4K in full quality, depending on the final specs.


Unless you are in a hurry, I would wait for the upcoming GPUs with these three things (expected early in 2015) or I would buy a cheap temp GPU knowing you'll have to upgrade it to play 4K content properly (both form a performance point of view and from a content protection point of view).


If possible, wait for the Bluray 4K specs to be published so you'll know what the GPU will have to support to be able to play upcoming 4K content in full quality.


Madshi should update MadVR to support higher than 8 bits resolution at some point (that's MadVR's maximum right now). 10 bits would be a minimum for upcoming UHD content. This will hopefully come along with HEVC hardware support.


The VW1x00ES is one of the few displays with 10bits panels and DCI gamut support, so all this does matter if you want the HTPC to deliver as good a picture as the VW1x00ES can deliver.


Just my .2 cents.
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post #10360 of 10362 Old Today, 11:16 AM
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Agreed, but in my case, the $399 for a card capable of supporting 4K out to my projector for upscaled playback of current source (BDs, Fios TV, 4K samples, games, etc.) was more than worth it. The source you're talking about it months away at best and I built my HTPC a while ago. If I had to do it again, I'd still pick up an R9 290 now and upgrade to something that will support HEVC, etc. if/when the dust settles. Right now, there really is no content to speak of, so it's really a moot point. In my case, I'll just upgrade the video card when the time comes. The rest of my HTPC should be ready to handle it as I installed a very nice power supply, MB, etc. OK, I'll need a 4K BD-R too.

I see no reason to wait for the dust to settle and source to become available to built an HTPC now and a RAID for content. You'll still get the best upscaled picture available onto the Sony (without buying a Lumagen 4K out) and have ability to play games and what current unencrypted 4K content. None of it will be obsolete except the video card and BD-R and you can put them up on fleabay to recoup some money. Or if you want to wait on the video card, you could skip buying one now and just use the HDMI for 1920x1080p off the motherboard. The Intel chips are good enough for that. It's what I'm using on my NUC and works just fine. That may be the best option for any new build.

In my case, I'll likely just leave my HTPC alone (for now) and upgrade to whatever new 4K Oppo comes out and a Lumagen 4K-in for my switching/processing needs. That will cover my 4K BD source requirements until someone figures out how to rip and store them on a RAID. Then I'll upgrade the HTPC to support that.

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post #10361 of 10362 Old Today, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Agreed, but in my case, the $399 for a card capable of supporting 4K out to my projector for upscaled playback of current source (BDs, Fios TV, 4K samples, games, etc.) was more than worth it. The source you're talking about it months away at best and I built my HTPC a while ago. If I had to do it again, I'd still pick up an R9 290 now and upgrade to something that will support HEVC, etc. if/when the dust settles. Right now, there really is no content to speak of, so it's really a moot point. In my case, I'll just upgrade the video card when the time comes. The rest of my HTPC should be ready to handle it as I installed a very nice power supply, MB, etc. OK, I'll need a 4K BD-R too.

I see no reason to wait for the dust to settle and source to become available to built an HTPC now and a RAID for content. You'll still get the best upscaled picture available onto the Sony (without buying a Lumagen 4K out) and have ability to play games and what current unencrypted 4K content. None of it will be obsolete except the video card and BD-R and you can put them up on fleabay to recoup some money. Or if you want to wait on the video card, you could skip buying one now and just use the HDMI for 1920x1080p off the motherboard. The Intel chips are good enough for that. It's what I'm using on my NUC and works just fine. That may be the best option for any new build.

In my case, I'll likely just leave my HTPC alone (for now) and upgrade to whatever new 4K Oppo comes out and a Lumagen 4K-in for my switching/processing needs. That will cover my 4K BD source requirements until someone figures out how to rip and store them on a RAID. Then I'll upgrade the HTPC to support that.
I wasn't talking about your setup, I have a similar setup with a 7870 which I bought last year as a temp solution able to playback the crappy 4K content we have at the moment.

I was just flagging these things for someone who was about to put an HTPC together, as the GPUs with HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and HEVC are - supposedly - around the corner (end of this year or early 2015). Then everyone can decide how much they want to put in an already obsolete GPU re 4K playback. It's all about knowing that the GPUs that support 4K today won't support bluray 4K or any decent 4K content, that's the only point I was trying to make .

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post #10362 of 10362 Old Today, 11:45 AM
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And I didn't say that you were. I was merely stating why I still built one knowing that it wasn't future proof and what I plan to do down the road. Your point is an excellent one and given that we're closer to a GPU with the right specs, I suggested just using the onboard graphics, which will work well for 1080p over HDMI, and hold off on the current crop of 4K video cards.

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