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post #10381 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
So I spent the last 4 hours experimenting with a fresh one from Amazon (just came in stock) and I have to say I am really impressed. Reading the first couple Reviews on Amazon I was expecting to return it after 20 minutes or so. I now can say I know what Mark is always talking about when he mentioned Ringing. I spent the evening checking out NFL preseason games. I can say the image is cleanest I have seen using its Ringing Suppression and Smoothing. I went back and forth quite a bit and during the plays the difference is also noticeable. The numbers on jerseys and score boxes look damn clear. Jaggies are virtually non existent! I am using a Monoprice IR Extender (model 8060) which their manual suggested with perfect results. It works fine with the DVDO Duo and 103D in the chain. Though it is harder to justify the Duo but I love its extra controls and options. If you send in Blu-ray 1080p/24 it passes right through. 3D works fine with it too. Tomorrow I plan to spend more time comparing them. As for now I am very impressed with their VRS Clearview chip and its 4K scaling abilities. The front row just got as good as the back for football!
Joe,
Now that you have had the DVDO Mini 4K Scalier for a while, is it worth while?
Wonder how well it would work with the Oppo103 and D* TiVo THR22?
Do you still have the Darbee in line also?

I see the Mini 4K on ebay now for under 3.
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post #10382 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by hermosa View Post
Thanks Mike.

Room is neutral gray with dark gray carpet. Width would be 96". I use the 1100 only at night. No light issues. Throw distance probably exactly at 11 feet.

I do watch 3D on occasion.

I have never experienced hotspotting with current .95 gain 103" screen.
Since you do some 3D, I would go with the ST130. If we can help you with pricing, give us a call.

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post #10383 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by hermosa View Post
Thanks everyone for the screen advice. Seems like the ST 100 is the way to go. Since my current screen has a .95 gain, I won't miss the 130's brightness. Also, I would just be at the minimum throw distance recommended by Stewart for the 130. Better to be sure and go with the ST 100.

AVS Forum is invaluable for getting everyone's experience with the same equipment.
ST100 will give you great results with 2D, but 3D would be a little better with ST130. It is going to be a slight compromise, which ever way you go.

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post #10384 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 10:33 AM
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OK. You want substance, I will give you substance.

At his throw, 11 ft, he will be within 1 ft of the closest possible throw with his projector, 10 ft.

This will give more brightness than I am getting in 3D at 15 ft. At 15 ft, the 3D is watchable, just a tad dim. But he has a good room and will watch in the dark. The gains in image quality of 2D of the ST100 over the ST130 are substantial and as an owner easily outweigh the dimness of the 3D.

To my knowledge, every one here who has made the switch has reached the same conclusion.

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post #10385 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 10:47 AM
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Thanks, Mark. I tend to agree with you. My projector is almost at the minimum throw distance. And Stewart's recommendation for the ST 130 would also have me at the minimum. I am worried about hotspots with the ST 130 at that short distance.

My current Screen Research is .95 gain. I have been happy with the brightness level. It could always be brighter but artifacts would drive me crazy if they came with a higher gain screen. 3D is not bad with the current screen, but dimmer than I would like. I think my 3D with active shutter glasses is brighter and better than movie theater 3D with passive glasses. 2D looks great.

Since I watch a lot more non-3D, I think I may not need any brightness boost. Not sure why the Stewart rep would recommend the ST 130 - but he assured me no hotspots.

But this is why I turned to Forum members - because several folks have the 1100ES and experience with both screens.

So the tradeoff seems to be no hotspots with the ST 100 and better 3D with the ST 130. Since 90%+ of what I watch is not 3D, the ST 100 seems like the way to go.

Again, thanks to everyone for the input. The discussion helped my decision.
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post #10386 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 10:59 AM
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You have 7 inches to spare with the minimum throw required by Stewart. Hot spotting will not be an issue at a throw of 1.3. the issue is other artifacting which you may or not be sensitive to such as sparklies and the fact that with 130 compared to 100, the screen material will never completely disappear.

ST130 G1 was originally developed by Stewart at the request and assistance of Joe Kane for CRT projectors. The maximum gain that would not hot spot at the fixed throw distance required by most CRT FPs was needed and some red push in the fabric was needed as well. The push was eliminated as the fabric matured in later generations and the smoothness needed for 4K resolution was improved. But the spayed on gain still has minor non hot spotting artifacts.

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Last edited by mark haflich; 08-29-2014 at 11:34 AM.
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post #10387 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
You have 7 inches to spare with the minim throw required by Stewart. Hot spotting will not be an issue at a throw of 1.3. the issue is other artifacting which you may or not be sensitive to such as sparklies and the fact that with 130 compared to 100, the screen material will never completely disappear.

ST130 G1 was originally developed by stewart at the request and assistance of Joe Kane for CRT projectors. The maximum gain that would not hot spot at the fixed throw distance required by most CRT FPs was needed and some red push in the fabric was needed as well. The push was eliminated as the fabric matured in later generations and the smoothness needed for 4K resolution was improved. But the spayed on gain still has minor non hot spotting artifacts.
Mark

If I got a swatch of the ST 130 fabric and stretched it tightly over a flat surface, would that be a realistic test of artifacts if I moved around to various positions close to the existing screen?
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post #10388 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by hermosa View Post
Mark

If I got a swatch of the ST 130 fabric and stretched it tightly over a flat surface, would that be a realistic test of artifacts if I moved around to various positions close to the existing screen?
The test is your sensitivity to the artifacting. The problem with an A/B comparison between two fabrics is the automatic almost universal attraction to the brighter image.

The test that your propose simply won't show the much greater realism or open window, screen material disappearing effect of the 100 over the 130.

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post #10389 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 02:34 PM
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The thing about the 100, though, is its much greater propensity to scatter light back around your room. I was cautioned by many people when looking at screen material that even with a "black room", the st100 would light up the room a good bit. So couple the lesser gain with the propensity to light up the room and you have decreased overall contrast.

My screen is a woven AT screen (I was looking at microperf versions of the ST100 / ST130), so who knows if the light scattering is any worse than what I already have. Its certainly acceptable to me and I am very happy with my screen.
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post #10390 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 03:05 PM
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Im going to replace my VW500/600 to the VW1100 since I really like the image on the 500 so much.
Does the 1100 have a "blank screen" function?


I have it with the 500 via RS232 even though its not available on the remote.
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post #10391 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Im going to replace my VW500/600 to the VW1100 since I really like the image on the 500 so much.
Does the 1100 have a "blank screen" function?


I have it with the 500 via RS232 even though its not available on the remote.



yes the projector has that function, but no, its not on the remote - but you can use an old remote with the function and learn the code or with a tablet, there is an Sony App with it on ("remote" ) its called "Pic muting"


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post #10392 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
The thing about the 100, though, is its much greater propensity to scatter light back around your room. I was cautioned by many people when looking at screen material that even with a "black room", the st100 would light up the room a good bit. So couple the lesser gain with the propensity to light up the room and you have decreased overall contrast.

My screen is a woven AT screen (I was looking at microperf versions of the ST100 / ST130), so who knows if the light scattering is any worse than what I already have. Its certainly acceptable to me and I am very happy with my screen.

Wouldn't the ST 130 light up the room even more with its increased gain?
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post #10393 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 04:32 PM
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No the coating also focuses the light into a narrower viewing cone. That is why you lose gain as you go off angle. The light is focused more on the viewer straight in front, not to the side walls.

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post #10394 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
No the coating also focuses the light into a narrower viewing cone. That is why you lose gain as you go off angle. The light is focused more on the viewer straight in front, not to the side walls.
My current screen is a Screen Research with .95 gain. Would you think the light scattering would be about the same as my current screen when compared to the 1.0 gain ST 100?

I realize you haven't seen my screen, but using your HT knowledge/logic.

My current screen does somewhat light up the room but does not bother me. At only 11 feet from the screen, it encompasses much of my field of view for the most part.
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post #10395 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 05:42 PM
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Hard to say. Let Mark chime in since he lives with the st100 and I have only read about it and have only seen a small sample. My guess is that it would throw off a little more light than what you currently have.

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post #10396 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hermosa View Post
Thanks, Mark. I tend to agree with you. My projector is almost at the minimum throw distance. And Stewart's recommendation for the ST 130 would also have me at the minimum. I am worried about hotspots with the ST 130 at that short distance.

My current Screen Research is .95 gain. I have been happy with the brightness level. It could always be brighter but artifacts would drive me crazy if they came with a higher gain screen. 3D is not bad with the current screen, but dimmer than I would like. I think my 3D with active shutter glasses is brighter and better than movie theater 3D with passive glasses. 2D looks great.

Since I watch a lot more non-3D, I think I may not need any brightness boost. Not sure why the Stewart rep would recommend the ST 130 - but he assured me no hotspots.

But this is why I turned to Forum members - because several folks have the 1100ES and experience with both screens.

So the tradeoff seems to be no hotspots with the ST 100 and better 3D with the ST 130. Since 90%+ of what I watch is not 3D, the ST 100 seems like the way to go.

Again, thanks to everyone for the input. The discussion helped my decision.
If 3D is okay with your .95 gain screen, then ST100 is a better way to go, because you will get a slight improvement with 3D and a good improvement with 2D. Only thing that made me leery about ST100, is the walls. I thought you said they were a neutral gray, that can reflect a fair amount of light back to the screen.

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post #10397 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 07:54 PM
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If 3D is okay with your .95 gain screen, then ST100 is a better way to go, because you will get a slight improvement with 3D and a good improvement with 2D. Only thing that made me leery about ST100, is the walls. I thought you said they were a neutral gray, that can reflect a fair amount of light back to the screen.
I guess my question now is: would there be more reflected light off the walls with the ST100 than my current .95 gain screen? If not, then I would be OK with the current amount of reflection I am getting. If it were 50% more reflection, then maybe not.

Not having seen the ST 100, i have no comparative reference point.
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post #10398 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 08:11 PM
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I guess my question now is: would there be more reflected light off the walls with the ST100 than my current .95 gain screen? If not, then I would be OK with the current amount of reflection I am getting. If it were 50% more reflection, then maybe not.

Not having seen the ST 100, i have no comparative reference point.
What fabric is your 0.95 screen?

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post #10399 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 08:36 PM
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What fabric is your 0.95 screen?
Unfortunately I don't know the fabric brand name. It is a 7 year old screen from Screen Research. The only fabric reference on the paperwork is"solid pix white". Not very helpful, I know. My previous HT installer is out of business, so I can't get any info from him.

I guess my only path is to go with the ST 100 and hope it is the right choice.

I can always paint my HT completely black.
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post #10400 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 09:35 PM
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OK. I went to the Screen Research website and they have one fabric that has a 1.0 gain that I bet is very similar to yours. most pure white screens have a gain slightly less than one and to bring them up to 1.0, they need a very small amount of sprayed on gain. ST100 is such a screen. Surprisingly, the half gain (viewing cone) on the ST100 is less than 90 degrees from center while the Screen research half angle is much much greater than 90. I conclude that the ST100 will throw less light to the side walls than your Screen Research fabric.

I have a tasteful black fabric on my walls. It is not as black as black velvet and you can barely see the fabric when watching content but it is very very dim and it does not appear to be bright enough to reflect any appreciable amount of light back onto the screen.

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post #10401 of 10800 Old 08-29-2014, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
OK. I went to the Screen Research website and they have one fabric that has a 1.0 gain that I bet is very similar to yours. most pure white screens have a gain slightly less than one and to bring them up to 1.0, they need a very small amount of sprayed on gain. ST100 is such a screen. Surprisingly, the half gain (viewing cone) on the ST100 is less than 90 degrees from center while the Screen research half angle is much much greater than 90. I conclude that the ST100 will throw less light to the side walls than your Screen Research fabric.

I have a tasteful black fabric on my walls. It is not as black as black velvet and you can barely see the fabric when watching content but it is very very dim and it does not appear to be bright enough to reflect any appreciable amount of light back onto the screen.
Excellent and very interesting. Thanks, Mark for the effort. I believe after all the dialog, the ST 100 is my choice. I will live with light scatter or do something to mitigate the reflection if It bothers me. I do know if I got sparklies from the 130, it would constantly irritate me. I see zero artifacts now with my current screen.
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post #10402 of 10800 Old 08-30-2014, 01:29 AM
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yes the projector has that function, but no, its not on the remote - but you can use an old remote with the function and learn the code or with a tablet, there is an Sony App with it on ("remote" ) its called "Pic muting"
Interesting, I see I have access to that pic muting command available in Control4, what is the purpose of this command?

Also, what app are you referring to that can access commands on the 1100ES? I can't find it in the Google Play store.

Thanks.

Matt
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post #10403 of 10800 Old 08-30-2014, 07:18 AM
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Interesting, I see I have access to that pic muting command available in Control4, what is the purpose of this command?


Also, what app are you referring to that can access commands on the 1100ES? I can't find it in the Google Play store.

Thanks.



It just mute / remove / blank the Picture ( you get a completly Black screen )


Sorry, dont know the apps name ( it is already on the Sony tablet I have )


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post #10404 of 10800 Old 08-30-2014, 01:29 PM
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Interesting, I see I have access to that pic muting command available in Control4, what is the purpose of this command?

Also, what app are you referring to that can access commands on the 1100ES? I can't find it in the Google Play store.

Thanks.


One only needs this feature say if you have a stage curtain covering the screen. I cue up a movie, set it on pause then blank the image from the curtain before guests come into the cinema. When I dim the lights and the footlights, the curtain opens and the image then hits the screen at the same time.


I call the function on my ipad, "Douser" this is the name that we used in all the projections rooms I worked in for 35+ years. This is exactly how it is done in all cinemas, you can have the light hitting the screen when the audience is arriving, or during intermission music, advertising playing etc etc etc....


The red handle in this image is a lamphouse douser
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post #10405 of 10800 Old 08-30-2014, 03:58 PM
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One only needs this feature say if you have a stage curtain covering the screen. I cue up a movie, set it on pause then blank the image from the curtain before guests come into the cinema. When I dim the lights and the footlights, the curtain opens and the image then hits the screen at the same time.
Thanks, I think I might have some use for it during times where I have a bigger picture than the screen when I use the 1100ES zoom functions for different aspect ratios in my motorized masking CIH setup. Kind of distracting to have the image visible during some of that.

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post #10406 of 10800 Old 08-30-2014, 04:55 PM
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Thanks, I think I might have some use for it during times where I have a bigger picture than the screen when I use the 1100ES zoom functions for different aspect ratios in my motorized masking CIH setup. Kind of distracting to have the image visible during some of that.
This is exactly how they use the function also in the cinema. When the lens turret turns the douser (screen blank) closes so one doesn't see the lens and aperture plates move.
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post #10407 of 10800 Old 08-31-2014, 06:23 PM
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Do the folks on the Forum with calibration expertise recommend an ISF calibration with the 1100ES or not? If I have one done, I have to import a calibrator from 4-5 hour drive away.
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post #10408 of 10800 Old 08-31-2014, 10:29 PM
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You really don't need to calibrate it. Just be sure you set contrast and brightness, and really its just brightness, contrast can be set to anything from about 90 to 100 with no real effect, brightness will be correctly set between a range of 49 to 51 depending on the machine, use a test disc, set sharpness to 10, set RC to on for R and about 3 or 4 for filtering, set to d65 and rec 709. Add a good three fingers of bourbon and a good cubano and you should be good to go.

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post #10409 of 10800 Old 08-31-2014, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
You really don't need to calibrate it. Just be sure you set contrast and brightness, and really its just brightness, contrast can be set to anything from about 90 to 100 with no real effect, brightness will be correctly set between a range of 49 to 51 depending on the machine, use a test disc, set sharpness to 10, set RC to on for R and about 3 or 4 for filtering, set to d65 and rec 709. Add a good three fingers of bourbon and a good cubano and you should be good to go.
Hah! Thanks, Mark. I can always count on you for good -- and cheeky-- advice.

I was a little worried at getting an ISF calibration and then thinking the picture was diminished without a way to reverse it.
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post #10410 of 10800 Old 09-01-2014, 07:06 AM
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Reversing it is never a problem. There are fixed color memories for the preset temps and spaces and custom ones. Further, there is no Color Management System in the unit anyway. You can, of course, create two point custom gray scales using the custom color memories, but that is it. Color space errors can not be corrected but the unit is pretty much on setting the color temp to d65

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