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post #10711 of 11106 Old 11-19-2014, 06:53 PM
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I would imagine this forum and others like it are the reason why most projectors and TV's have such good out of the box performance lately. If people didn't post and read forums like this then these manufacturers wouldn't bother spending the money giving us such great ootb performance and the tools necessary to tweak the settings to get the picture to your exact liking.

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post #10712 of 11106 Old 11-19-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
To use the projectors pre set gamma is no proof, you need to calibrate it. After 1000 hours my VW1100 measured 2.2 when set to 2.4, when it was new it measured 2.4, this is a known Sony issue. It is not so drastic on the VW1100 and can easily be corrected when calibrated, but you need a external CMS. Sony has now released a limited CMS (only gamma and grayscale) to the VW1100, but it does not work correctly yet and it ony have 10 and 64 point gamma adjustments. My calibrator tried it today on my 1100 and he will report the problems to Sony so they can fix the problems.

I know the Sony iris is not perfect and I am aware of the problems, but if you calibrate it correct it will not clip whites. The pumping issue can not be corrected, but it can be limited with a lower gamma, but I dont like 2.2 or lower gamma in my room so I must live with more pumping when gamma set to 2.35 power. It is of corse easy to get rid of these issues as it is just to turn off the iris, but i like it more on.
First of all allowing or enabling the setting of a precise gamma curve and better gray scale setting ability is NOT a CMS. It is totally incorrect to call this a CMS. A CMS allows the movement of the primaries, sometimes the secondaries, and even a zillion points within the color cube. So let's get that out of the way first.

You can set the gamma curve anyway you like through a variety of means including an external processor such as the Lumagens.

However the auto iris function on the Sony use a dynamic gamma which I think overrides totally (it could be additive) to your chosen gamma curve.. The reason it is brighter on auto full is that the gamma is lowered more on the bright end in full rather than limited. this contributes to the white clipping. It clips less on limited because the gamma at the top end is not lowered as much.. Lower the gamma and you will increase the brightness on the screen. and andreas, your projector is no different than mine. Put that scene on and increase the gamma on manual. You will see a loss of definition in the white hair. Set it where you want and observe. You have to raise the gamma to see it not clip. then go to limited and full auto and observe. and the auto gamma will change the colors from what you calibrate. a dynamic iris causes gray scale deviations. that is why Joe Kane doesn't like auto irises. Frankly, minor color errors don't bother me. Rec 709 has a very limited color space and many colors are moved in coding to a wrong color because the space can't replicate the correct color. So much is wrong to begin with, minor errors within the space are trivial with respect to the actual colors filmed or whatever.

And guys we are a friendly club here. Stop with the accusations of not believing what some one says or accusing someone of BS ing. Stop. we all learn from each other and become more critical viewers as well. We all believe what we say, we are all incorrect part of the time. I have fully mastered the art of being wrong. I have it down pat.

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post #10713 of 11106 Old 11-19-2014, 08:18 PM
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Of course you should tune your projector to the point that it produces a good picture. I'm all for that obviously. I do my own calibration using a decent meter and Calman which is probably more than most folks on AVS do or pay someone to do. My point is that there is a diminishing return with tweaking and debating RC settings or whether to DI full, limited, or none. That's not CMS or grayscale. There is no ROT for any of that. So at some point, it's subjective and comes down to your OWN eyes. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Now I'm off to watch something, maybe even some porn and take a measurement.
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post #10714 of 11106 Old 11-19-2014, 08:37 PM
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You own a micrometer?
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post #10715 of 11106 Old 11-19-2014, 09:01 PM
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I love this forum and the debate. Having people like Kris, Mark, Andreas, etc. share their thoughts, especially when they differ, has helped me understand and enjoy my toy. Keep it up.

Stevenjw, sit back and enjoy or ignore the festivities. If you are on this forum, it's hard to not want to make or try a tweak at least every fifth movie
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post #10716 of 11106 Old 11-19-2014, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post
I love this forum and the debate. Having people like Kris, Mark, Andreas, etc. share their thoughts, especially when they differ, has helped me understand and enjoy my toy. Keep it up.

Stevenjw, sit back and enjoy or ignore the festivities. If you are on this forum, it's hard to not want to make or try a tweak at least every fifth movie


Yes I like the different opinions also.


I take a little bit from all and make up my own mind. Everyone has something to contribute and no one is always 100% right in this game.


We all have different tastes, some like a dim image, others bright. Its up to each and everyone of us to run our projectors the way we feel looks best in our own room. Those settings we choose to use certainly don't apply for every room out there!
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post #10717 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
So you think ANSI contrast has more to do with white than black? How much influence do you think white has to do with the measurement? The big limitation you are looking for when measuring ANSI contrast is how much your BLACK level is being effected by nearby white mainly due to scatter within the lens and projector body. Essentially bleed over. So no, I don't think the white level effects it that much. But please, tell me why it does.
I am not saying it matters as much as the blacklevel, but of corse it matters! The same goes with on/off where blacklevel affects it most, but without white you get no contrast.

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post #10718 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 02:39 AM
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First of all allowing or enabling the setting of a precise gamma curve and better gray scale setting ability is NOT a CMS. It is totally incorrect to call this a CMS. A CMS allows the movement of the primaries, sometimes the secondaries, and even a zillion points within the color cube. So let's get that out of the way first.

You can set the gamma curve anyway you like through a variety of means including an external processor such as the Lumagens.

However the auto iris function on the Sony use a dynamic gamma which I think overrides totally (it could be additive) to your chosen gamma curve.. The reason it is brighter on auto full is that the gamma is lowered more on the bright end in full rather than limited. this contributes to the white clipping. It clips less on limited because the gamma at the top end is not lowered as much.. Lower the gamma and you will increase the brightness on the screen. and andreas, your projector is no different than mine. Put that scene on and increase the gamma on manual. You will see a loss of definition in the white hair. Set it where you want and observe. You have to raise the gamma to see it not clip. then go to limited and full auto and observe. and the auto gamma will change the colors from what you calibrate. a dynamic iris causes gray scale deviations. that is why Joe Kane doesn't like auto irises. Frankly, minor color errors don't bother me. Rec 709 has a very limited color space and many colors are moved in coding to a wrong color because the space can't replicate the correct color. So much is wrong to begin with, minor errors within the space are trivial with respect to the actual colors filmed or whatever.

And guys we are a friendly club here. Stop with the accusations of not believing what some one says or accusing someone of BS ing. Stop. we all learn from each other and become more critical viewers as well. We all believe what we say, we are all incorrect part of the time. I have fully mastered the art of being wrong. I have it down pat.
I know how the iris and gamma work toghether and how the iris raise the gamma, but the way my VW1100 is calibrated it limits white clipping to what I would say is no clipping, I have set it up so I can see past 245 on a contrast pattern. I will test this clip on Harry Potter and report back here what I see, and if it clips slightly I am very sorry!

I am sorry about the CMS and that is why I called it limited on the VW1100, this is for many other projectors as well and on most you can calibrate the primarys and seconday colors, but not on the VW1100 and GT100.


I am also wrong many times and I will admit it if I am, I don´t think the same goes for many others...

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post #10719 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 07:19 AM
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I agree that ultimately it comes down to what you enjoy but I also think your post trivializes a lot of what goes into making a great image and a lot of the reason this forum exists. If you're fine with blowing $20K+ on a projector and turning it on and watching it that's fine, but saying that talking about what does or doesn't go into that image on an AV science board is kind of missing the point. I'm sure there are plenty of other forums that are great for patting each other's backs about how great their new toy is, I like figuring out why it is great and what can make it better.
Blowing? Really! Who made you the judge of worth or value to the one spending the bucks? Do not take this as an attack, I would suspect you really didn't mean it as other than an expression of your value determination. But you are press my boy and just by that alone you become anointed with being an expert on anything you write about. To me, and to me alone, the 1100ES has been worth every penny I spent on it. Now I spent a lot less on it thn most of a variety of reasons that I won't discuss here and if I had to pay more along the lines of what others paid I wouldn't have been able to afford it but if I could have, even then it would be to me worth every penny more too.

And this is a great forum for patting posters on the back about how great their instrument of video reproduction is. A projector may be a man toy to you but its a lot more to many even if they don't tune it for maximum performance or they ill wittingly or otherwise mistune it because they like it that way. I would say a projector is not a necessity of life. It is a discretionary purchase. A discretionary chattel in legal terms and if attached to the ceiling it is conveyed with the propert unless specifically excluded in the contract of purchase and sale of your property.

Lat's talk about the scene from Harry Potter. Suppose you set the auto iris on full on auto full and definition is lost in the white hair. So what? Only idiots like us are looking in detail at the hair. There is lots of action going on in that scene. Detail or not in the hair, it makes no difference. Nada. Its like a small tiny zit on the face of a beautiful nude woman walking towards you, turning around, and bending over to pick up something. The zit was there as she walked towards you but you probably wouldn't notice it because you were trying to take it all, there was action, and there was anticipation of even more subsequent action.

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post #10720 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 08:27 AM
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Guys....how about the fight scene between Batman and Bane in the dark knight rises.....plenty of contrast between the detail on bane's body armour and the dark underground surroundings.......I always watch this scene(not that I watch it regularly ) on auto full....yes it does cause mild posterization( if such a word exists!---you know what I mean) on bane's skin but accentuates the detail on his costume......switching to Auto Limited or iris off detracts from that fine detail......but you don't get the unnatural skin tones.....aswell as gaining some extra detail in the shadows........always a trade off!
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post #10721 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 08:35 AM
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Blowing? Really! Who made you the judge of worth or value to the one spending the bucks? Do not take this as an attack, I would suspect you really didn't mean it as other than an expression of your value determination. But you are press my boy and just by that alone you become anointed with being an expert on anything you write about. To me, and to me alone, the 1100ES has been worth every penny I spent on it. Now I spent a lot less on it thn most of a variety of reasons that I won't discuss here and if I had to pay more along the lines of what others paid I wouldn't have been able to afford it but if I could have, even then it would be to me worth every penny more too.

And this is a great forum for patting posters on the back about how great their instrument of video reproduction is. A projector may be a man toy to you but its a lot more to many even if they don't tune it for maximum performance or they ill wittingly or otherwise mistune it because they like it that way. I would say a projector is not a necessity of life. It is a discretionary purchase. A discretionary chattel in legal terms and if attached to the ceiling it is conveyed with the propert unless specifically excluded in the contract of purchase and sale of your property.

Lat's talk about the scene from Harry Potter. Suppose you set the auto iris on full on auto full and definition is lost in the white hair. So what? Only idiots like us are looking in detail at the hair. There is lots of action going on in that scene. Detail or not in the hair, it makes no difference. Nada. Its like a small tiny zit on the face of a beautiful nude woman walking towards you, turning around, and bending over to pick up something. The zit was there as she walked towards you but you probably wouldn't notice it because you were trying to take it all, there was action, and there was anticipation of even more subsequent action.
Yeah I think you took it in a different way than what was meant. My comment had to do with the fact that he made it seem like a bad thing to be digging into the technical things we're talking about here. I didn't mean that the 1100ES is a waste of money, that is all subjective and my review of the unit stands. There are a lot of things I have that many would say I blew my money on that represent things I use daily and enjoy VERY much. I would have no issue at all blowing my money on a Sony 1100ES if it was the best fit for my room.

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post #10722 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 08:39 AM
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Guys....how about the fight scene between Batman and Bane in the dark knight rises.....plenty of contrast between the detail on bane's body armour and the dark underground surroundings.......I always watch this scene(not that I watch it regularly ) on auto full....yes it does cause mild posterization( if such a word exists!---you know what I mean) on bane's skin but accentuates the detail on his costume......switching to Auto Limited or iris off detracts from that fine detail......but you don't get the unnatural skin tones.....aswell as gaining some extra detail in the shadows........always a trade off!
Couldn't agree more. You will ALWAYS find an issue with a dynamic iris system if you go looking for it. Finding a projector or a iris mode that fits your viewing needs and doesn't present enough issues for you to complain about is the goal. The dynamic iris on the 1100ES didn't bother me at all during my review. The lack of native contrast combined with the somewhat aggressive bottom end of the iris is what bothered me. But I have yet to find a dynamic iris that doesn't have something that I think could be improved on.

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post #10723 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 08:40 AM
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Yeah I think you took it in a different way than what was meant. My comment had to do with the fact that he made it seem like a bad thing to be digging into the technical things we're talking about here. I didn't mean that the 1100ES is a waste of money, that is all subjective and my review of the unit stands. There are a lot of things I have that many would say I blew my money on that represent things I use daily and enjoy VERY much. I would have no issue at all blowing my money on a Sony 1100ES if it was the best fit for my room.
Kris....just imagine..... hypothetically ......that the Sony v1000/1100 cost exactly the same as the JVCx700......which one would you prefer then!?
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post #10724 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 08:45 AM
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Kris....just imagine..... hypothetically ......that the Sony v1000/1100 cost exactly the same as the JVCx700......which one would you prefer then!?
It has nothing to do with money for me. I would still use the JVC in my room. The dynamic range of the JVC is too hard to give up. I would LOVE to have a bit more light output and a high lamp mode as quiet as the Sony, but ultimately the Sony just doesn't have enough dynamic range for my viewing. But in your hypothetical scenario I might actually be tempted to buy both and have a dual projector setup. The two together would provide everything I need at the moment for all viewing conditions. I am in no way saying the JVC is a perfect projector, there is plenty of room for improvement. It just fits my viewing the best at the moment.

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post #10725 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 08:47 AM
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Couldn't agree more. You will ALWAYS find an issue with a dynamic iris system if you go looking for it. Finding a projector or a iris mode that fits your viewing needs and doesn't present enough issues for you to complain about is the goal. The dynamic iris on the 1100ES didn't bother me at all during my review. The lack of native contrast combined with the somewhat aggressive bottom end of the iris is what bothered me. But I have yet to find a dynamic iris that doesn't have something that I think could be improved on.
Indeed.


I would add that Auto on full and it's perceived effect on very fine detail(+ unintended side effects/artefacts) is also affected by the source itself.


Flicks sourced from grainy 35mm film stocks(and subsequently mastered onto Bluray) seem to exhibit greater artefacts(digital noise or grain) when the Iris is on AutoFull......flicks mastered from digital cameras(Sony F65 4K,Ari Alexa,Red Epic) don't suffer as much......I am going to try and get screen shots up at some point
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post #10726 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 08:53 AM
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It has nothing to do with money for me. I would still use the JVC in my room. The dynamic range of the JVC is too hard to give up. I would LOVE to have a bit more light output and a high lamp mode as quiet as the Sony, but ultimately the Sony just doesn't have enough dynamic range for my viewing. But in your hypothetical scenario I might actually be tempted to buy both and have a dual projector setup. The two together would provide everything I need at the moment for all viewing conditions. I am in no way saying the JVC is a perfect projector, there is plenty of room for improvement. It just fits my viewing the best at the moment.


Interesting and fair enough mate.....I actually got a bit of flack a few months back for preferring my old Panasonic AE2000 to my v1000es(on certain material).


Old grainy flicks can be brutally scrutinized under such a high resolution lens(such as that of the Sony 4K)........sometimes less is more......my Panny handles the some of the older stuff better(or in a more palatable way).
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post #10727 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 09:02 AM
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Let's talk about the scene from Harry Potter. Suppose you set the auto iris on full on auto full and definition is lost in the white hair. So what? Only idiots like us are looking in detail at the hair. There is lots of action going on in that scene. Detail or not in the hair, it makes no difference. Nada. Its like a small tiny zit on the face of a beautiful nude woman walking towards you, turning around, and bending over to pick up something. The zit was there as she walked towards you but you probably wouldn't notice it because you were trying to take it all, there was action, and there was anticipation of even more subsequent action.
That's kinda of my point all along, at some point you need to sit back and just enjoy the show before you end up with white hair too.

Now where's that damn micrometer, there's a beautiful nude woman walking towards me and I need to take another measurement as I track the aging of my.....er.....lamp.

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post #10728 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 11:03 AM
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I've been intrigued reading this thread, and now I'm curious on how one sets the final fl.

Is it better to set the iris manually to output 14-16fl then calibrate then turn on the Auto iris full. Or is it better to adjust the fl to 14-16fl whilst the Auto iris full is on, then switch the Auto Iris full off whilst you calibrate?
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post #10729 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 11:22 AM
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I know how the iris and gamma work toghether and how the iris raise the gamma, but the way my VW1100 is calibrated it limits white clipping to what I would say is no clipping, I have set it up so I can see past 245 on a contrast pattern. I will test this clip on Harry Potter and report back here what I see, and if it clips slightly I am very sorry!

I am sorry about the CMS and that is why I called it limited on the VW1100, this is for many other projectors as well and on most you can calibrate the primarys and seconday colors, but not on the VW1100 and GT100.


I am also wrong many times and I will admit it if I am, I don´t think the same goes for many others...
The part you should watch is at 59 minutes in. If you have the two disc 3D blu-ray set it's the first chapter of the second disc. The clip in question only lasts about a minute. Keep a keen eye on Draco Malfoy's hair. I'd make an effort to pause on him to make the comparisons.

Pausing on a shot like this should help:


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post #10730 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 11:22 AM
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One should never calibrate with the Auto iris on. And since you can't limit the dynamic iris with the manual setting, you have to essentially calibrate the projector and then figure out which auto mode delivers the peak white level you desire or forgo one of the auto modes completely.
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post #10731 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 11:55 AM
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The part you should watch is at 59 minutes in. If you have the two disc 3D blu-ray set it's the first chapter of the second disc. The clip in question only lasts about a minute. Keep a keen eye on Draco Malfoy's hair. I'd make an effort to pause on him to make the comparisons.

Pausing on a shot like this should help:

I will check it out soon and report back here.

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post #10732 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 12:47 PM
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OK. How do you guys determine that the whites are not clipping in scenes where the screen is primarily dark but there is a white portion, say on somebody's hair or beard. freeze the image and you will see a loss of detail towards the whitest whites on auto full. Switch to limited and there is delineation in the white hair. to me, this is clipping of the whites.





You just use a test pattern which is primarily dark, but with some white patterns in with say 100 ire ( 100 % = 235 / white) 102,104 etc. up to 109 % ( 255 ) - and if none of the patterns get wash out / disapears, when you switch to full mode, it dosnt clip WTW - not ????


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post #10733 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 01:16 PM
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I have tested the scene from Harry Potter now and there is slight clipping (had to go closer to the screen to see it as it was not visible from my seat, but no difference between Auto Full and Auto Limited only iris off) when Malfoy is furthest from the camera, when he is closer there is no difference in detail between Auto Full, Limited and off. What I do see is that Auto Limited tends to loose some detail in black compared to Auto Full with my 2.35 power gamma in this movie. And I really like this film, it is time for a new Harry Potter marathon.

What I also see is that a 2.35 gamma is to dark for this movie with the VW1100 as the iris goes bananas (both in Auto Full and Limited) in the different attack scenes on Hogvarts, a slightly lower gamma say 2.30 perhaps will do the trick to get the iris to ease down a bit. I will try to get a 2.30 or 2.25 gamma next time so I can compare it to the 2.35 gamma in these difficult scenes for the VW1100 iris.
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Last edited by Andreas21; 11-20-2014 at 01:35 PM.
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post #10734 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I think you're missing the point he's trying to make. He's saying if low lamp mode or auto-limited mode gave you 20 ftL on your screen, as you say this is where you like the brightness to be, would you still use high lamp mode/auto full? If low lamp mode/auto limited gave you your desired ftL on your screen what would be the point of using high lamp mode? Because low lamp/auto limited doesn't give you enough light on your screen obviously high lamp/auto full looks better to you. But if you had a different screen where low lamp/auto limited gave you the same brightness that high lamp/auto full did on your old screen would you be happy? Or would you still choose the brighter image every time?

Because low lamp/auto limited mode on Kris's screen gives him his desired brightness he doesn't see the point in using high lamp mode. To him things don't look dull. He's trying to point out that these things are relative to screen size and gain. Your example of a dull and flat looking image with auto-limited mode or low lamp mode don't always apply. On your screen they do, but not on all screens.



Everyone can do what they want , but I dont get the " go to a desired light output" ( your eyes live in the real Word, where the light dont get limited to say - anywhere near 14 fL, when you say go outside a normal day ( not even a sunny day ) or turn on a light inside, so I dont really understand that you get "blinded" in almost all movies with peak light output at. say over 14 fl ( but of course there can be a quick scene where it goes from Black to white, where you eyes need to adjust, but that happens to in real live too everyday, so IMO thats whats should happens in the movies too - to mimic "reallity" - and that would happen too, if you go from Black too say 9 fL - so do you then limit the projector to 8 fL ?


And why not maximizes the CR always, where possible ( full mode ) even if it "only" is a Little ( I see it as very easy to see, but havnt meassured it ) instead off use the low lamp ( less power, less noise less, heat ) and / or a longer distance if posible


And if going from limited to full only gives a very small increase in the Whites/ CR ( your statement ), it surly cant be a problem for the eyes to absorbs ( try on your projector to open the iris a Little more up - like going from say 14fL to 18fL - do it blind you ? and is the Picture worse ?


dj


dj

Last edited by d.j.; 11-20-2014 at 01:20 PM. Reason: adding text
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post #10735 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 03:06 PM
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Why not just run the DI on limited? The picture will be a little dimmer but most of all the visibility of the artifacts will be subtantially decreased.
In the case of this particular scene in Edge of Tomorrow, the pumping is terrible in both full and limited iris settings. I do think it's a pathological case, though.

Before I had the projector calibrated, I had been running it in Auto Limited, and rarely noticed problems with the iris. I would certainly notice it working on occasion, usually when a scene faded to black, but otherwise it wasn't obtrusive. What I've found since the calibration was done and we turned it off is that I don't miss it.

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post #10736 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 03:16 PM
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Nobody here is using either HDBaseT or a fiber-based HDMI cable with their 1100ES and a Sony 4K source?

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post #10737 of 11106 Old 11-20-2014, 04:17 PM
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In the case of this particular scene in Edge of Tomorrow, the pumping is terrible in both full and limited iris settings. I do think it's a pathological case, though.

Before I had the projector calibrated, I had been running it in Auto Limited, and rarely noticed problems with the iris. I would certainly notice it working on occasion, usually when a scene faded to black, but otherwise it wasn't obtrusive. What I've found since the calibration was done and we turned it off is that I don't miss it.
To be honest, there are very few good dynamic iris implementations that I would be comfortable using all of the time. This Sony has one of them. Granted I only spent about 8-10 hours viewing the 1100ES, from what I saw, it does a great job most of the time at showing no artifacts. It's really just when a scene gets particularly dark you might start to see it working. But for the other 99.5% of the time it's a great DI. JVC's is good too, but I'm hoping they do a little more work on it because while good, it feels a little rough around the edges with some material. It flickers a bit too much for my liking. But like the Sony's DI, the flickering only happens on occasion. The nice thing about the JVC is that you can disable the DI and get a very respectable on/off contrast ratio and black level. For me, the 1100ES (and all other projectors for that matter), relies heavily on a DI to get respectable contrast and black levels. So for all but a JVC you really need to have a well implemented DI if you want a decent amount of contrast by today's standards. This is my biggest concern with DLP projectors. They desperately need a DI for them to look okay with contrast and frankly there's only been two or three DLP based DI's that I like enough where I'd be comfortable owning it for the long haul and be happy with it.

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post #10738 of 11106 Old 11-21-2014, 12:40 AM
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Is there a way that the 1100ES can have the firmware updated? I understand that the machine comes with various firmware versions installed, depending on the manufacturing date. But, unlike the 500ES/600ES, the 1100ES does not have a USB port. How does Sony provide firmware updates for the 1100ES?
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post #10739 of 11106 Old 11-21-2014, 12:40 AM
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is there a way that the 1100es can have the firmware updated? I understand that the machine comes with various firmware versions installed, depending on the manufacturing date. But, unlike the 500es/600es, the 1100es does not have a usb port. How does sony provide firmware updates for the 1100es?
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post #10740 of 11106 Old 11-21-2014, 01:17 AM
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So it is possible. Have there been firmware updates that Sony has provided so far? Where can they be downloaded from? I looked here and found nothing: http://www.sonybiz.ca/pro/lang/en/ca...100es/support/
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