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post #10891 of 10899 Old Today, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sandel View Post
I only noticed that the Sony isn't responding to my RS232 connected remote any longer. But of course it might be an option as well that the ports are dead. How can I make sure?
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Originally Posted by Deepsky4565 View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I haven't tried the serial port. Did you get any info on why this happened?
One way to tell was that the IP settings couldn't be changed. Besides that, just try to hook serial/IP up and see if you get any activity. I think IP is easier to tell than serial.

I got no explanation from Sony on why it happened, but they ended up replacing the upgraded board with a replacement.

Matt
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post #10892 of 10899 Old Today, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
We are still about a year away for uhd bd, so level b is good for now.
On top of this, its been confirmed that there is no Ultra 4K 3D in the new standard, because the chips would be too expensive. So another reason why this projector won't be obsolete any time soon. My guess is if competition does get released, it may not even include Blu-ray 3D. So you might get some new features, that may or may not get used in actual studio releases any time soon, but you might miss out on 3D.

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post #10893 of 10899 Old Today, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by turls View Post
One way to tell was that the IP settings couldn't be changed. Besides that, just try to hook serial/IP up and see if you get any activity. I think IP is easier to tell than serial.

I got no explanation from Sony on why it happened, but they ended up replacing the upgraded board with a replacement.
I'll give it a try. Thanks!
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post #10894 of 10899 Old Today, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I do wonder how long it would take for broadcast to be in 4k. I always hear that its years away. Since we know hdmi 2.0 level B is all we need for uhd bd, what else do we need more than level b for? I do want a 4k projector with the full hdmi 2.0 for the future but I'll be on to the next 4k projector by that time. I guess I was expecting more from the start. We are still about a year away for uhd bd, so level b is good for now.
This is a real chicken and egg problem. In a few years - when the majority of TVs sold are UHD - then there will be incentive for cable companies/Dish to offer UHD channels.

Broadcasters are in a different situation. Their TV channels are 6 MHz wide, and can transmit ~20Mbps. Almost all of them have 1 main channel, and 1 or 2 subchannels. All of this must fit in the 20Mbps channel. As it is many skimp on the BW assigned to the main channel - so you end up with crap HD.

Now putting aside the issue of compatibility with existing HD receivers, a 2160p30 UHD is is going to be hard to get into less than 20Mbps. So what about the subchannels - do you think the stations are going to just use 1 main channel and give up the subchannels? Does not seem likely to me. So you would end up with a crappy UHD just like we have (mostly) crappy OTH HD.
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post #10895 of 10899 Unread Today, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by George Kouzev View Post
It seems current Sony 4k PJs support HDMI 2.0 Level B. If that is the case the question to Sony is if a board upgrade is possible to bring support to Level A. That is also assuming the 600/350 panels can support 12bit signals.
They won't be upgrading those units. Information revealed a while back indicated it cost Sony a lot of money to create the update for 1000ES owners to upgrade their motherboard. Much of the cost to do this was subsidized by Sony. Considering there are probably more 600ES/350ES owners than 1100ES owners it would be too costly for Sony to do another upgrade. Then again, like I pointed out, these Sony 4K models have enough bandwidth for what the vast majority of UHD BD will be anyways. There's really no point in an upgrade for all three units. If 600ES owners are expecting some sort of upgrade I don't know why this would be. It was pretty obvious the 600ES and 350ES were "early adopter" units. They were released well beyond a year prior to UHD BD spec being finalized. Were they honestly expecting Sony to know everything about that finalized spec more than a year in advanced (4 years if you consider how old the 1000ES is)? I think it would be a bit ridiculous for end users to expect Sony to provide an update for them. Early adopters should know they usually get shafted in one way or another.
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post #10896 of 10899 Unread Today, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by darksets View Post
Thanks for the explanation. I'm still a little confused by all the possible combinations. In another thread here ("Ultra HD Blu-ray Spec at CES 2015"), Scott Wilkinson writes:

"Also, players must support frame rates up to 60 fps and color gamuts up to BT.2020 with 10-bit resolution."

In your table I don't see a combination of 60fps and 10bit color resolution. You also specify the color standard in a different way so I'm not sure if it translates to the same thing. So I'm still unsure what's going on but I appreciate your and the other knowledgeable people's effort here at AVS, to inform the rest of us.

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You need to do some reading up on the topic. Currently there are literally NO displays (flat panels or projectors) that fully support REC2020 color space. This is a limitation of the current light source and display technologies. Currently displays based on LEDs, OLEDs, Quantum Dot, CCFL, Plasma, UHP lamps, Xenon lamps, and phosphor wheel/laser illumination cannot create a spectrum of light large enough to create a REC2020 gamut and thus none of the displays can be calibrated for REC2020. What this means is that at first REC2020 color gamut will not be used. They will most likely use REC709 or possibly P3 color space for UHD BD. The use of REC2020 is still years off. The same goes for 60fps material. There aren't any films I know of that are 60fps and most of the amateur/consumer grade 4K recording gear out there records at 8bit 4:2:0 so these Sony units will be more than capable to display the content correctly. The 600ES/350ES cannot produce a P3 color space but the 1100ES has a special filter which allows this. So that unit is the most future proof.

The reason why I say you need to read more into it is because I think you're confusing a lot of what the Scott Wilkinson article says because it's also missing a lot of information so people are coming away from it less informed compared to when they first went in. The UHD BD spec will be "loose" in it's specs. A lot of what Scott wrote neglects further clarification. What I mean is that while he says the players need to support REC2020, he neglects to say that it's not the only color gamut supported. It will also support P3 or REC709 either separately or will adopt SMPTE 2086 so the correct color gamut information can be generated for a display that doesn't support REC2020. Then he mentions it will need to support 10bit color resolution, but neglects to say the spec will include support for UHD video anywhere from 8 bit to 16 bit video with support for various chroma subsampling rates at each bit depth.

The format will have "loose" specs because the BDA realizes this format is calling for things that don't exist yet and for things that current displays cannot do. So while Scott's article says certain things those are not the specs of all video that UHD BD will have. It's more than likely, for a number of years, we won't see anything but 8bit (possibly 10bit) 4:2:0 UHD video color graded for a REC709 color space with a possibility in the future for UHD BDs to come out with higher bit depth, chroma subsampling, and content color graded for a larger gamut. This format is no where near as strict as 1080p blu-ray is and they're doing it like this to ensure this format is as future proof as possible.

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post #10897 of 10899 Unread Today, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
The format will have "loose" specs because the BDA realizes this format is calling for things that don't exist yet and for things that current displays cannot do. So while Scott's article says certain things those are not the specs of all video that UHD BD will have. It's more than likely, for a number of years, we won't see anything but 8bit (possibly 10bit) 4:2:0 UHD video color graded for a REC709 color space with a possibility in the future for UHD BDs to come out with higher bit depth, chroma subsampling, and content color graded for a larger gamut. This format is no where near as strict as 1080p blu-ray is and they're doing it like this to ensure this format is as future proof as possible.

This reflects my expectation too, which lead to my decision not to wait and take the plunge. Some say wait a year and you will have displays that "truly" support 4k spec... well the real answer is they will likely support a bit more than the displays of today, and within another year we may see better support yet and so on. Process that may depend on how content rolls out too, i.e. it can take a few years. By the time displays cover most/all of the 4k spec, there will be other innovations on the horizon and these latest displays will not be future proof again. You see my point...


If I had to state one concern about the current Sony PJs, it is about not supporting motion flow with 4k as I really like it when compared to true cinema, and the first 4k movies will likely come in 24fps...
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post #10898 of 10899 Unread Today, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by George Kouzev View Post
If I had to state one concern about the current Sony PJs, it is about not supporting motion flow with 4k as I really like it when compared to true cinema, and the first 4k movies will likely come in 24fps...
This is really a limitation in the current computing power of video processors. It's not so much that Sony chose not to include it, but more along the lines of it's not yet possible with the current processors available.
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post #10899 of 10899 Unread Today, 05:25 PM
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This is really a limitation in the current computing power of video processors. It's not so much that Sony chose not to include it, but more along the lines of it's not yet possible with the current processors available.
I am not blaming Sony for that, they are already ahead of the curve in 4k. Regardless, it is a feature I would likely miss more than the rest of the 4k spec.
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