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post #10951 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
All their present 4K projectors are 10.2 Gbps, the real issue was providing for HDCP 2.2 which all the 4K projectors have as well as being able to do 60 at 4:2:0 to meet the voluntary CEA standards so that Joe and Mary know their display is truly UHD. 10.2 vs 18 Gbps really will matter little to many here but it will to some. If it does, sell your projector now and wait for a year or two. there are may cheap 1080p projectors that can hold you over.
In a way, I think you're making my point. All their projectors are 10.2! My hypothesis was that they could have but didn't hold off a littler longer to deliver an 18 GB upgrade and new projectors. It was likely only a matter of delaying a few months or some planning ahead to acquire 18 GB chips sooner. As I said, if they weren't so much in the red, they probably could have done this with minimal impact. There's still really no competition in the 4K projector market, so why rush out 10.2 GB units?

As for buying a cheap 1080p, I already had a very nice Epson 6030 from a certain local shop (that talked up the 1000 later). Why the hell would I take a step back now? As long as the 1100 can handle coming 4K BDs with the current motherboard, I'm satisfied. I'm just saying that Sony probably could have waited a little longer to provide a more future-proof 18 GB solution. I think that's all anyone else is saying too.

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post #10952 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 02:47 PM
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And if Sony truly cared about early adopting FMP owners, they'd get their act together with their UHD download content. Even without improved color, I see no technical reason why most of their new releases can't look as good as the free shorts. They could even provide them in P3 with more detail and HD sound. Or are we to expect that the first releases of UHD-BD from Sony will look no better than what we're getting on the X1 (or X10)? If that's the case, then UHD-BD will be DOA, especially if priced higher than BDs.

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post #10953 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 03:22 PM
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I doubt it would have been a wait of only a few months and why wait at all, 18Gbps will not be needed by most for a loooonnng loooooonnnnnng time.

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post #10954 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 05:49 PM
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In a way, I think you're making my point. All their projectors are 10.2! My hypothesis was that they could have but didn't hold off a littler longer to deliver an 18 GB upgrade and new projectors. It was likely only a matter of delaying a few months or some planning ahead to acquire 18 GB chips sooner. As I said, if they weren't so much in the red, they probably could have done this with minimal impact. There's still really no competition in the 4K projector market, so why rush out 10.2 GB units?

As for buying a cheap 1080p, I already had a very nice Epson 6030 from a certain local shop (that talked up the 1000 later). Why the hell would I take a step back now? As long as the 1100 can handle coming 4K BDs with the current motherboard, I'm satisfied. I'm just saying that Sony probably could have waited a little longer to provide a more future-proof 18 GB solution. I think that's all anyone else is saying too.
What can of worms does it open up, if Sony had waited to provide this upgrade. The upgrade probably would not happen until this spring at the earliest and some owner's projectors would be out of warranty. You seem to be under the impression that Sony could have done this work months ago. I am not under that same impression. If that was the case, I am sure that Lumagen would already have an HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 video processor. Believe me, Lumagen is not holding it back for any reason.

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post #10955 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 07:46 PM
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I doubt it would have been a wait of only a few minutes and why wait at all, 18Gbps will not be needed by most for a loooonnng loooooonnnnnng time by most.
I hope that you're correct and if so, it's a moot point and good to know. (It's also what I thought and have no reason to doubt you either.)

However, they still need to improve the quality of their download content and open it up to other studios too.

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post #10956 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 08:09 PM
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What can of worms does it open up, if Sony had waited to provide this upgrade. The upgrade probably would not happen until this spring at the earliest and some owner's projectors would be out of warranty. You seem to be under the impression that Sony could have done this work months ago. I am not under that same impression. If that was the case, I am sure that Lumagen would already have an HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 video processor. Believe me, Lumagen is not holding it back for any reason.
My assumption is based on Sony being in the black and carrying as much weight as Panasonic, LG, or Sony of old. I was under the impression that Panasonic had 18 GB for a while now, almost as long as the time of the MB upgrades. Why not Sony? My understanding is that Panny currently has UHD displays that support Level A. Same for LG. So how is that Sony doesn't? Lumagen is not in the same category as the big players, so using them as an example doesn't carry much weight. Except maybe to point out how far Sony has fallen. Lumagen may get 18 GB chips before Sony.

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post #10957 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 08:46 PM
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My assumption is based on Sony being in the black and carrying as much weight as Panasonic, LG, or Sony of old. I was under the impression that Panasonic had 18 GB for a while now, almost as long as the time of the MB upgrades. Why not Sony? My understanding is that Panny currently has UHD displays that support Level A. Same for LG. So how is that Sony doesn't? Lumagen is not in the same category as the big players, so using them as an example doesn't carry much weight. Except maybe to point out how far Sony has fallen. Lumagen may get 18 GB chips before Sony.
Panasonic and especially LG are MUCH larger in terms of panel production compared to Sony. It makes more sense for LG and Panasonic to have these chips created first and it makes sense for LG and Panasonic to have their own solution to keep manufacturing costs down. They don't have to pay an extra fee to buy a third party or competitor's solution. Sony doesn't have enough marketshare to justify such things or at least this is my opinion as to why they don't have their own solution. Do they even manufacture their own LCDs anymore? I think this is why it took a third party company, in this case Silicon Image, before you saw anyone else come out with full spec HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 compatible products. I doubt LG and Panasonic wanted to lose the advantage their products had at the time. When profit margins on flat panel are as low as they've ever been, having even a small advantage like this can make a world of difference in sales.

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post #10958 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 08:47 PM
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What can of worms does it open up, if Sony had waited to provide this upgrade. The upgrade probably would not happen until this spring at the earliest and some owner's projectors would be out of warranty. You seem to be under the impression that Sony could have done this work months ago. I am not under that same impression. If that was the case, I am sure that Lumagen would already have an HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 video processor. Believe me, Lumagen is not holding it back for any reason.
Based on volume, Lumagen would be at the back of the line for the 18 gbps chips (unless supply/demand equilibrium has already been reached)

Lumagen should also be in no rush to release a 4k processor. It's way too early for them, and it would behoove them (as it would have Sony) to wait a while until the jello chills.
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post #10959 of 10972 Old 01-28-2015, 08:54 PM
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I hope that you're correct and if so, it's a moot point and good to know. (It's also what I thought and have no reason to doubt you either.)

However, they still need to improve the quality of their download content and open it up to other studios too.
Don't think you will get any argument there.
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post #10960 of 10972 Old 01-29-2015, 03:41 PM
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Panasonic and especially LG are MUCH larger in terms of panel production compared to Sony. ... Sony doesn't have enough market share to justify such things
And who's fault is that? Sony's of course and that's my point. If Sony had it's collective $#!+ together, they wouldn't have lost market share, they'd still be in the display business, and they'd have had the 18 GB chips on hand for their projectors. And we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I just hope they stay in business long term because their projectors are very, very good and we all need a repair center just in case.

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post #10961 of 10972 Old 01-30-2015, 05:40 AM
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Dummie Question:
Isn't the Lumagen or any other 4k Scaler a good point to look positv is the future ?

To display nativ 4k on the Sony we need a new Scaler anyway, so if use this new Scaler, he can handle /Transport the 18G to the Sony Panel, so the VW 1000 can show it ?

Offtopic: I have a VW 1000 still without Upgrade, do I need the Upgrade for display Netflix oder Amazon in UHD, then i have the Mediaplayer ?
In Europa Sony FMP -X5.
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I have to say I have been 100% happy with my movie watching lately. Sure the new format will add a little but to be honest between the amazing sound (using a Datasat RS20i) and the pristine picture from my 1100 I am not sure just how much better it can get...
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post #10963 of 10972 Old 01-30-2015, 03:53 PM
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I have to say I have been 100% happy with my movie watching lately. Sure the new format will add a little but to be honest between the amazing sound (using a Datasat RS20i) and the pristine picture from my 1100 I am not sure just how much better it can get...
Are you watching Blu-ray or 4K from the server? The audio from the server is very disappointing. I'm still flabbergasted that Sony chose to accompany 4K with 1999 vintage Dolby Digital. The drop in audio quality outweighs the enhancement of the 4K source material. I'm pretty happy with the Blu-ray, but can't help but be a bit frustrated that I can't get the the best audio with the best video when they are both readily available.

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post #10964 of 10972 Unread 01-30-2015, 05:12 PM
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I haven't turned on the Server in months. I forget I even have it until I read this thread. I am talking about Blu-ray 1080p.


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post #10965 of 10972 Unread 01-30-2015, 06:30 PM
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I have to say I have been 100% happy with my movie watching lately. Sure the new format will add a little but to be honest between the amazing sound (using a Datasat RS20i) and the pristine picture from my 1100 I am not sure just how much better it can get...

It can always get better. The problem is the older you get, the more difficult it is to keep it up.


And this applies to other things besides HT.

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post #10966 of 10972 Unread Yesterday, 03:09 PM
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So what are people's opinions on what to do for a surround prcoessor that handles video switching? The ones that are coming out now only seem to have a single HDCP2.2 compliant input and at some point in the next 12-24 months, I am guessing we will need more than 1. My room is fairly small and can only run 5.1 so I don't need all of the bells and whistles.. The FMP-X1 never gets turned on but am expecting there to be more 4k streaming options at some point (maybe comcast, AppleTV, etc...). Its pretty crudy timing but am short HDMI inputs on my current processor and need to do something.
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post #10967 of 10972 Unread Yesterday, 08:15 PM
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So what are people's opinions on what to do for a surround prcoessor that handles video switching? The ones that are coming out now only seem to have a single HDCP2.2 compliant input and at some point in the next 12-24 months, I am guessing we will need more than 1. My room is fairly small and can only run 5.1 so I don't need all of the bells and whistles.. The FMP-X1 never gets turned on but am expecting there to be more 4k streaming options at some point (maybe comcast, AppleTV, etc...). Its pretty crudy timing but am short HDMI inputs on my current processor and need to do something.
None of them have HDCP 2.2, so none of them can pass 4k BD. You can buy a Denon AVR 7200 right now (we have been selling those since December) and it can be upgraded in May to full HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. Same for the Marantz AV8802, when it starts shipping in February.

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None of them have HDCP 2.2, so none of them can pass 4k BD. You can buy a Denon AVR 7200 right now (we have been selling those since December) and it can be upgraded in May to full HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. Same for the Marantz AV8802, when it starts shipping in February.
Unless I am missing something, the current Onkyo/Integra processor and receivers have an HDCP 2.2 input. The new line of Sony receivers also have HDCP2.2

That being said, everything mentioned (Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Sony) only have a single HDCP 2.2 input which baffles me.
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So what are people's opinions on what to do for a surround prcoessor that handles video switching? The ones that are coming out now only seem to have a single HDCP2.2 compliant input and at some point in the next 12-24 months, I am guessing we will need more than 1. My room is fairly small and can only run 5.1 so I don't need all of the bells and whistles.. The FMP-X1 never gets turned on but am expecting there to be more 4k streaming options at some point (maybe comcast, AppleTV, etc...). Its pretty crudy timing but am short HDMI inputs on my current processor and need to do something.
Unfortunately, you're correct in that this is a "crudy" time to make an upgrade. Personally, I'd wait and use the Sony's two inputs plus whatever you current processor has. If that's still not enough, try reducing your sources for a while or get a cheap HDMI 1.4 switch to hold you over.

At some point, receivers and processors will get up to speed. I was hoping that the Emotiva XMC-1 was going to be the solution when the owner announced support for HDMI 2.0, but they quickly backed off that and are finally shipping with HDMI 1.4.

Personally, I'm now waiting for a full 4K in/out solution from Lumagen for the video solution. I treat the audio separately so that I can still run my decades old Lexicon or upgrade to something that supports the latest audio bells and whistles if I decide to splurge. PCM and Logic 7 still produce a great 7.1 soundstage from my MC-1. I'm not missing anything really.

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post #10970 of 10972 Unread Today, 02:27 PM
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I wonder why Sony can not do something like Samsung with their evo kit. Make things a lot easier
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While companies such as Panasonic had full HDMI (18 Gbps) inputs, those inputs do not support HDCP 2.2. Some products that came out during 2014 (eg, Panasonic & Samsung) could be configured to support either 10.2 Gbps HDMI 2.2 & HDCP 2.2 or full HDMI 2,O w/o HDCP 2.2, but not the combination of HDMI & HDCP we really would like to have. Sony buys their HDMI chips from Silicon Image (going back to PS3 days and even earlier) and SI just starting shipping their nes production HDMI chips in October & so 2015 is the year we will see them first appearing in new products.

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Ron, I'm assuming these new chips from SI can do both HDCP 2.2 and full spec 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 throughput?

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