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post #10981 of 11455 Old 02-03-2015, 10:08 AM
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if 20 is good, then 40 should be better. I also only run 0-5, I think it looks too overcooked when it's cranked.
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post #10982 of 11455 Old 02-03-2015, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
Note over in the Epson 4K thread, in Art's review of it compared to the Sony 1100, he uses RC set at 20, which he says is Sony's default. Many here (e.g., Mark H), recommend having RC 'on' but at 0, or no higher than 5. Can anyone more knowledgeable than I comment on this?
Yes, it was set too high, causing ringing. Some perceive that as extra sharpening. The Epson was on 2 and from what I have read, it also causes ringing, when going above 1.

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post #10983 of 11455 Old 02-03-2015, 12:55 PM
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Extra or excess sharpening is indeed ringing. When an image is scaled, sharpness is lost. A scalar designer can attempt to bring back the sharpness lost through several techniques. The most prevalent is to deliberately add ringing into the scalar. Ringing masks high frequency detail by hiding it 9if it is there) under what we perceive as a narrow white halo along the darker portion of a dark to lighter transition. the trick is to use this ringing in moderation so that it doers not become visible when viewed at normal viewing distances. The high frequency detail lost or hidden by the halo wouldn't be visible at that distance as well. Thankfully, for purists, there are scalars that don't employ ringing. ring free here means more than wild and single.

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post #10984 of 11455 Old 02-03-2015, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Extra or excess sharpening is indeed ringing. When an image is scaled, sharpness is lost. A scalar designer can attempt to bring back the sharpness lost through several techniques. The most prevalent is to deliberately add ringing into the scalar. Ringing masks high frequency detail by hiding it 9if it is there) under what we perceive as a narrow white halo along the darker portion of a dark to lighter transition. the trick is to use this ringing in moderation so that it doers not become visible when viewed at normal viewing distances. The high frequency detail lost or hidden by the halo wouldn't be visible at that distance as well. Thankfully, for purists, there are scalars that don't employ ringing. ring free here means more than wild and single.
I have to say, I spent this weekend looking at different content on the Sony, using its internal scaler vs the Lumagen. I have to say, as much as I love the Lumagen for greyscale and CMS, the touted 4k scaler was a touch soft compared to the Sony. There was legitimate detail difference (skin pores, hair, other textures) that were more detailed (no halos) with the Sony scaler vs the Lumagen.

Difference isn't enormous, but it's there it seems.

Lumagen is excellent with software improvements, so perhaps there will be some enhancements over time...

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post #10985 of 11455 Old 02-03-2015, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
Note over in the Epson 4K thread, in Art's review of it compared to the Sony 1100, he uses RC set at 20, which he says is Sony's default. Many here (e.g., Mark H), recommend having RC 'on' but at 0, or no higher than 5. Can anyone more knowledgeable than I comment on this?
On my newer 1100 I keep NR at 0 (min) and RC at 22. But that's just me.

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post #10986 of 11455 Old 02-03-2015, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
Note over in the Epson 4K thread, in Art's review of it compared to the Sony 1100, he uses RC set at 20, which he says is Sony's default. Many here (e.g., Mark H), recommend having RC 'on' but at 0, or no higher than 5. Can anyone more knowledgeable than I comment on this?
On my VW1100ES I use the 'Reference' setting with the Dynamic Iris on 'Full Auto' and the Lamp on 'Low'.

I noticed that any increase in RC Resolution above 'Min' gives a fake and harsh aspect to the picture, and makes the film grain look very digital. A Resolution value of '5' is already horrible. So I set the Resolution to 'Min'.

As for Noise Filtering, the Reference default value of '30' provides an image with the same level of softness as with the RC set to 'Off'. This means that, sitting sufficiently far away to not notice the jagged edges when RC is off, turning the RC on and off will not produce any noticeable change in perceived sharpness. I personally prefer a picture with the least amount of video manipulation, so I set the Noise Filtering to 'Min'. In this case, turning the RC on provides a very slight increase in perceived sharpness.

In summary, I have the RC always on and set both the Resolution and the Noise Filtering to 'Min'. What does everybody else think or use?
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post #10987 of 11455 Old 02-03-2015, 09:45 PM
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I think your conclusions are consistent with what most have concluded. turn r on to minimum and noise filtering to min up to about 3 or 4. it is very hard to discern exactly where to set noise filtering and I doubt anyone could distinguish between min and 3 or so for noise filtering.


the problem is there are no test patterns by which to accurately set the settings. RC gives my friend William Miller considerable anxiety I think because he like all of us can see much difference except that the picture looks better with the R set to minimum.


Art I suspect had other things to worry about in his comparison of the Epson to the Sony and he had to return the Sony before he was completely done with it. suppose you leave RC both set to 20. depending on how far you sit from the screen, it probably won't spoil ones enjoyment of the sony although on balance I feel with others such a setting is not optimal. I hope this helps.

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post #10988 of 11455 Old 02-04-2015, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9009 View Post
On my VW1100ES I use the 'Reference' setting with the Dynamic Iris on 'Full Auto' and the Lamp on 'Low'.

I noticed that any increase in RC Resolution above 'Min' gives a fake and harsh aspect to the picture, and makes the film grain look very digital. A Resolution value of '5' is already horrible. So I set the Resolution to 'Min'.

As for Noise Filtering, the Reference default value of '30' provides an image with the same level of softness as with the RC set to 'Off'. This means that, sitting sufficiently far away to not notice the jagged edges when RC is off, turning the RC on and off will not produce any noticeable change in perceived sharpness. I personally prefer a picture with the least amount of video manipulation, so I set the Noise Filtering to 'Min'. In this case, turning the RC on provides a very slight increase in perceived sharpness.

In summary, I have the RC always on and set both the Resolution and the Noise Filtering to 'Min'. What does everybody else think or use?
If you have a Darblet in the chain, this makes even more sense.

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post #10989 of 11455 Old 02-04-2015, 11:36 AM
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Hello,

I have RC min / NR min, in my Oppo 105D I use Darbee at 20.

More than this I start to see artifacts (screen 110in at 4m distance).

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post #10990 of 11455 Old 02-04-2015, 04:46 PM
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Are you sure your RS232 port works? My IP and RS232 were dead after the upgrade. Didn't realize it right away (long story) and ended up having to ship the thing off to get it fixed. The codes shouldn't have changed much if at all.
My serial port seems dead, too. I'm sure I was using the correct settings, too. Well, guess I've got to ship her off. Any advice for this process?
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post #10991 of 11455 Old 02-04-2015, 05:30 PM
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My serial port seems dead, too. I'm sure I was using the correct settings, too. Well, guess I've got to ship her off. Any advice for this process?
Not really, except take a lot of pictures of the condition before you send it off.

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post #10992 of 11455 Old 02-04-2015, 09:59 PM
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do you need a special 4K hdmi cable for 4k projectors (vw1100, vw600 etc)?

my projector to AV receiver needs a 15 meters cable.
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post #10993 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 12:40 AM
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Best summary article I've read yet on HDCP 2.2, HDMI 2.0:

http://www.residentialsystems.com/de...90&EntryId=936

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post #10994 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 07:31 AM
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do you need a special 4K hdmi cable for 4k projectors (vw1100, vw600 etc)?

my projector to AV receiver needs a 15 meters cable.
I've been advised that a 1.4 high speed cable will handle the present 4K delivery system, but for HDCP 2.2 which is expected for the future, you will need a 2.0 high speed cable min. Check with your sales rep before purchasing.
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post #10995 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
I've been advised that a 1.4 high speed cable will handle the present 4K delivery system, but for HDCP 2.2 which is expected for the future, you will need a 2.0 high speed cable min. Check with your sales rep before purchasing.


Who gave you this advice? Was it an untrained salesman? HDCP 2.2 is a copy protection scheme and to my understanding does not add in any appreciable manner to the bandwidth requirements for the HDMI cable you need. There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable with or without HDCP 2.2 being put on as a cable descriptor. What you are looking for is a Type II HS (high speed) HDMI cable. That may not work in the future as HDMI may change over the years. To be safe run several pairs of cat 5e or cat 6e cable along with your chosen HDMI cable. Be aware that many longer length HDMI cables are directional and must be run in the correct direction.

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post #10996 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 07:46 AM
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I'm currently using (well, using is a relatively phrase since I hardly ever "use" it) a 40 foot Monoproice Redmere 1.4 cable from the FMP-X1 to the 1100 and have not experienced any issues at all with HDCP 2.2 compliance.

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post #10997 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 07:51 AM
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Who gave you this advice? Was it an untrained salesman? HDCP 2.2 is a copy protection scheme and to my understanding does not add in any appreciable manner to the bandwidth requirements for the HDMI cable you need. There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable with or without HDCP 2.2 being put on as a cable descriptor. What you are looking for is a Type II HS (high speed) HDMI cable. That may not work in the future as HDMI may change over the years. To be safe run several pairs of cat 5e or cat 6e cable along with your chosen HDMI cable. Be aware that many longer length HDMI cables are directional and must be run in the correct direction.
It was a rep from Audioquest, and they stated the 2.0 HDMI Chocolate cable would support HDCP 2.2. I did not say a cable with or without did I? How do you know which direction to send a HDMI cable for the correct direction? I'm installing a 10m tomorrow, and want it to be correct.
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post #10998 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 07:51 AM
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Thrang. I was thinking (something I rarely do anymore) that a ringing scalar who not show halo artifacts for your favorite sport (hockey) because the white halos wouldn't really be that apparent against the white ice and white boards.

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post #10999 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 08:00 AM
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I would call AQ and ask them. 10m is around the break point for where directionality matters.

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post #11000 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 08:05 AM
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Thrang. I was thinking (something I rarely do anymore) that a ringing scalar who not show halo artifacts for your favorite sport (hockey) because the white halos wouldn't really be that apparent against the white ice and white boards.
This could be true, but I've seen that with poor scalers in hockey games with sweater lettering (player names) for example, which I don't see with the Sony scaler. Of course, one has to be careful with broadcast evaluations, as many channels have varying levels of compression and other artificial enhancements that mean you are starting off with a sucky image..there is a wide range of DirecTV quality with its Center Ice feeds for example...

I spent a good deal of time watching Lucy on Blu ray, switching back and forth between the Lumagen and Sony 4k scaler, watching several segments repeatedly, and that really firmed my opinion. It's an extremely well rendered disc, with a wide variety of scenes, the the Sony scaler always looked better to my eyes.

Now, perhaps the Sony is at fault, doing or not doing things with incoming 4k that are affecting this opinion, but I don't believe so - some of the best 4k I've seen are the precious few online sample files (ignoring compression artifacts) played in native 4k from my iMac Retina 5k or from a PC GT 770 series video card.

BTW, the candidate for the most awesome 4k sampler we might not ever see is "Slow Life" on Vimeo. Thought the description says it's available in 4k, that's only for licensing customers I beleive. Even the down res'd 1080p file you can view is pretty incredible.

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post #11001 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
It was a rep from Audioquest, and they stated the 2.0 HDMI Chocolate cable would support HDCP 2.2. I did not say a cable with or without did I? How do you know which direction to send a HDMI cable for the correct direction? I'm installing a 10m tomorrow, and want it to be correct.
A directional cable is an active cable. It has a chip in it. One end is labeled display and the other end is labeled source. Right now there are many cables that can do 4K at 10.2Gbps, but it may be a problem finding a cable that can do 18Gbps in a length over 20'.

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post #11002 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 10:47 AM
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A directional cable is an active cable. It has a chip in it. One end is labeled display and the other end is labeled source. Right now there are many cables that can do 4K at 10.2Gbps, but it may be a problem finding a cable that can do 18Gbps in a length over 20'.
Thanks for the info.
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Unfortunately, almost all cables over 20 ft or so have a chip inside them but many resellers do not indicate whether the cable is active nor which end is the source and which is the sink. My sources tell me that almost all HDMI cables come from two Chinese manufacturers. American companies do not build HDMI cables. They simply label and package what they buy from the Chinese.

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post #11004 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 04:16 PM
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For current Sony projectors any of the HDMI cables that work for 1.4 will be fine for these projectors. The bandwidth has not changed between HDMI 1.4 (high speed) which could do 4K and HDMI 2.0 at 10.2gbs, if a cable can handle 10.2gbs it will work. The only difference between 1.4 and 2.0 at 10gbs is HDCP 2.2 and that has nothing to do with the cable and its bandwidth. When you go to 18gbs then the current 1.4 cables might not work. If you have passive cables and only need 10.2gbs then you are fine until about 25 feet, for 18gbs about 15feet will be the limit. Beyond those distances you will need an active cable. DPL labs tests cables and you can find out which cables have passed their testing which ,is about 20% tougher than HDMI standards.
http://www.dpllabs.com/page/dpl-approved-products
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post #11005 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 06:29 PM
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Unfortunately, almost all cables over 20 ft or so have a chip inside them but many resellers do not indicate whether the cable is active nor which end is the source and which is the sink. My sources tell me that almost all HDMI cables come from two Chinese manufacturers. American companies do not build HDMI cables. They simply label and package what they buy from the Chinese.
Mark,
There is one American made cable source:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/...hdmi-cable.htm
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post #11006 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 06:40 PM
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The fiber optic hdmi cables from Celerity are great. As long of a run as you could want and 18gbps capability. Also will help with ground loops since electrical can't run over it. I use it and it's great. Mycablemart.com sells it.

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Mark,
There is one American made cable source:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/...hdmi-cable.htm

They are made with USA sourced cable but as the link clearly states the connectors etc are put on in China. Regardless of the component source, like every other HDMI cable, they are made (assembled) in China.

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post #11008 of 11455 Old 02-05-2015, 09:51 PM
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The fiber optic hdmi cables from Celerity are great. As long of a run as you could want and 18gbps capability. Also will help with ground loops since electrical can't run over it. I use it and it's great. Mycablemart.com sells it.
I can't find anywhere on mycablemart or Celerity site that states the fiber hdmi is rated at 18gbps?
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post #11009 of 11455 Old 02-06-2015, 03:29 AM
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I am sure the fibre optic can handle it but it is the converter piece I'm not sure about as it might need a newer chipset. I'd give them a call.
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post #11010 of 11455 Old 02-06-2015, 05:29 AM
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Yeah you are right... and that is very weird. That is not what it used to say. I notice that the 40ft cable still says 18gb in the title but not down in the product description.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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