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post #11131 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 02:58 AM
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Hello Mark,

i ask this before...may be you can answer me:

i Already changed to the Isco 1.25 DLP Lens.
To Stretch 1080p i use the Build in scaler of the vw 1100.

I have no pc and no Knowledge to scale nativ 4k.

So do i have to take off the Lens each Time, before i watch 4k with Mediaplayer For Exemplare netflix or Trailer in nativ 4k?

Then Lumagen brings out a nativ 4k Scaler ( 4k in + out ) later this year, i can leave the lens in the lightway right ?

Best regards dirk
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post #11132 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Hello Mark,

i ask this before...may be you can answer me:

i Already changed to the Isco 1.25 DLP Lens.
To Stretch 1080p i use the Build in scaler of the vw 1100.

I have no pc and no Knowledge to scale nativ 4k.

So do i have to take off the Lens each Time, before i watch 4k with Mediaplayer For Exemplare netflix or Trailer in nativ 4k?

Then Lumagen brings out a nativ 4k Scaler ( 4k in + out ) later this year, i can leave the lens in the lightway right ?

Best regards dirk
The internal scaler can not strech 4K native material so you can not use the lens when watching native 4K 2.35: material, and when Lumagen comes with a 4K in and 4K out it will probarbly do the strech with 4K material. I say probarbly because I don´t know, send a mail to Jim Peterson and he can answer that question.

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post #11133 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 05:42 AM
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Thanks for your answer Andreas.
I think we don't need the 4k Scaler before the UHD Blu Rays (incl. 4k Anamorphic Signals) comes out after IFA Sept 2015.
this means for me, that i take the lens off each time then i watch 4k Netflix

Greetings to Norway
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post #11134 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
It depends on how you set the aspect setting on the projector. You can set it to normal where it will operate as a 3840 x 2160 chip blanking out the 4K pixels on either side (1/2 of (4096-3840) ) on either side. This will preserve the source aspect of 1.78 filling the screen vertically with the extra pixels which there is no source content anyway blanked. the scale is by a multiplier of 2 vertically and horizontally. If you set the projector aspect to 2.35 it will light all 4096 horizontally through scaling to 4096 x 2160 by a multiplier of 2.07 but the chip will not have enough vertical pixels and will clip them, i.e., you will lose a small amount vertically of what's there.
Mark, thanks for that clarification. Just curious, do you see a sharpness degradation or scaling artifacts when use the 2.35 aspect mode to scale by 2.07? The reason I'm asking this is because I'm trying to plan ahead on which anamorphic lens to go with (my throw is too short to utilize the zoom method). The 1.25x ISCO DLP lens is a perfect fit if utilize the full 4096 width, but I will probably want to use a standard 1.33x if the standard 1.78 aspect is preferred. I realize the VPL-VW1000 / 1100 wont do vertical stretch of 4k/UHD material, but I'd be using my HTPC for that anyway.
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post #11135 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Thanks for your answer Andreas.
I think we don't need the 4k Scaler before the UHD Blu Rays (incl. 4k Anamorphic Signals) comes out after IFA Sept 2015.
this means for me, that i take the lens off each time then i watch 4k Netflix

Greetings to Norway
Thank you!

I had the same combination as you with the VW1100 and Isco 1.25x, I have now sold my VW1100 and the Isco is for sale on eBay. I now run the Isco 4 and Cineslide with my JVC X500 and I am waiting for the new 4K models coming this fall.

Regards
Andreas

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post #11136 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 08:58 AM
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I just upgraded my Lumagen to a 2143, and immediately found that 2160@60Hz output is "softer" than 1080p@60Hz. Specifically, text from my cable box (that outputs 1080i@60Hz to the Lumagen) looks sharper/better when I set the Lumagen to output 1080p@60Hz than it does when I set it to output 2160p@60Hz.


Is there something simple/stupid I am missing? For example is the Lumagen's Darbee disabled for 4K output?


Thanks

Alex
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post #11137 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 10:45 AM
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I find the 2x scale to be sharper than the 2.07 scale. I never use the aspect on the Sony set to other than normal. The Lumagen scalar is no ring and that means without the deliberately introduced ringing of other scalars including the scalar built into the projector, it will look softer.

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post #11138 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I find the 2x scale to be sharper than the 2.07 scale. I never use the aspect on the Sony set to other than normal. The Lumagen scalar is no ring and that means without the deliberately introduced ringing of other scalars including the scalar built into the projector, it will look softer.
Thanks Mark. I see your point about ringing. That would certainly explain why the lumagen upscaling "looks soft" compared to the Sony. I knew I was missing something "simple" . I'll check out some test patterns and verify.


By the way, I am using the 2x scale (3840x2160) rather than the 2.07x (4096x2160), and I use the normal setting on the sony.

Alex
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post #11139 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by work permit View Post
Thanks Mark. I see your point about ringing. That would certainly explain why the lumagen upscaling "looks soft" compared to the Sony. I knew I was missing something "simple" . I'll check out some test patterns and verify.

To make it easier for others to follow, ringing is visible as a white halo around dark to lighter contrast transition edges (regardless of the color of the transition). This makes the transition edge easier to see clearly. Obviously the halo must be hiding information behind the artificial halo. Sitting far enough away, the halo or the information it hides normally would not be visible. I do find the halo to be annoying when I see it outlining such things as football helmets etc. While ringing makes an image APPEAR to be sharper, it is ACTUALLY less sharp by masking the info under the halo.

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post #11140 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
I find the 2x scale to be sharper than the 2.07 scale. I never use the aspect on the Sony set to other than normal. The Lumagen scalar is no ring and that means without the deliberately introduced ringing of other scalars including the scalar built into the projector, it will look softer.
Hi Mark - I'm not convinced the Lumagen is best for upscaling to 4k, as I find it a tad soft. I don't prefer ringing, but I've spent a lot of time switching between two presets, one outputting 1080 and one outputting 4k, and even from my seat, the Lumen 4 is soft. Conversely, I don't see the 1100 creating halos, unless one grossly adjust RC and sharpness settings of course..

I'm hestitant to post screen grabs, as they are fraught with issues, but even so, you can see differences in fine hairs, pores, lines, stubble, etc, between these two:



Sony scaling left, Lumagen scaling right

Sharpness is the same on both (10), RC is 15/15 on the Sony scale. RC doesn't function on 4k signals.

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post #11141 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 03:30 PM
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Left and right? BTW You know I have sharpness set to 10 and RC set to min, min but the halos are still visible around uniform edges against the white ice on hockey and on football helmets.

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post #11142 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Left and right? BTW You know I have sharpness set to 10 and RC set to min, min but the halos are still visible around uniform edges against the white ice on hockey and on football helmets.
Left and right referring to the posted images...

It really depends on source material...some broadcasts seem to have been scaled/compressed/decompressed every which way by the time it is sent via DirecTV, and they often have baked in issues. MSG broadcasts however look great with no ringing.

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post #11143 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 03:37 PM
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OK. Let me be clearer. Your post shows two images, one above the other and not two images side by side, one being on the left and the other being on the right.

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post #11144 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
OK. Let me be clearer. Your post shows two images, one above the other and not two images side by side, one being on the left and the other being on the right.
perhaps your browser width is too narrow..then consider the top one left, the bottom one right I would presume..Or widen your browser a bit...

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post #11145 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 04:08 PM
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Sorry for the of topic, but where do I find the browser width setting? Thanks in advance.

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post #11146 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Left and right? BTW You know I have sharpness set to 10 and RC set to min, min but the halos are still visible around uniform edges against the white ice on hockey and on football helmets.
Turn your sharpness down to 0.

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post #11147 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 04:21 PM
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It is set to the minimum for both, are you suggesting to set it to off?

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post #11148 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 04:30 PM
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No, you said you have your sharpness set at 10 and RC at minimum, set your sharpness control to 0 not 10.

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I still find the DVDO MINI sharpest for 4K upscale and use it with DirecTV viewing.
When Lumagen releases a new 4K scaling solution I will be more than happy to try it. Yes, the MINI runs at a fraction of the cost but you are doing yourself a disservice not at least trying one...

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post #11150 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 06:11 PM
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Use your same settings and just try one. It even has a RINGING SUPPRESSION adjustment.


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post #11151 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 07:09 PM
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I just threw up the "sharpness" test pattern from my QD 780 and boy, I must say, the sony upscaler sure does ring. Not only is it obvious on the neeedles, one of the grid patterns shows a lot of "blotchiness". I'm sure I noticed this when I first got the sony but since I didn't bother me in regular viewing, I didn't think much of it.


The lumagen is clean.

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post #11152 of 11156 Old Yesterday, 08:25 PM
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The sharpness control really has nothing to do with the scalar. The sharpness control can introducing ringing independently of the scalar. this is easy to see if one uses one of the 4K (noy UHD) patterns built into the Sony. Shut the RC off. The scalar is bypassed. Now adjust the sharpness control. O on that control is not necessarily the off position. The off position is where no ringing is evident on a 4K single color pattern. Most have determined this to be 10, the sony default. Going below where there is no ringing may lessen the PQ.

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post #11153 of 11156 Unread Today, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
Thank you!

I had the same combination as you with the VW1100 and Isco 1.25x, I have now sold my VW1100 and the Isco is for sale on eBay. I now run the Isco 4 and Cineslide with my JVC X500 and I am waiting for the new 4K models coming this fall.



What new model ?


dj
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post #11154 of 11156 Unread Today, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by work permit View Post
Thanks Mark. I see your point about ringing. That would certainly explain why the lumagen upscaling "looks soft" compared to the Sony. I knew I was missing something "simple" . I'll check out some test patterns and verify.


By the way, I am using the 2x scale (3840x2160) rather than the 2.07x (4096x2160), and I use the normal setting on the sony.



I do think, that you need to set the RC different on the 1100 when you send 2160P into it ( higher ), then whats its set at on a1080P input - if you want to compare between them.


Just a thought


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post #11155 of 11156 Unread Today, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Hi Mark - I'm not convinced the Lumagen is best for upscaling to 4k, as I find it a tad soft. I don't prefer ringing, but I've spent a lot of time switching between two presets, one outputting 1080 and one outputting 4k, and even from my seat, the Lumen 4 is soft. Conversely, I don't see the 1100 creating halos, unless one grossly adjust RC and sharpness settings of course..

I'm hestitant to post screen grabs, as they are fraught with issues, but even so, you can see differences in fine hairs, pores, lines, stubble, etc, between these two:



Sony scaling left, Lumagen scaling right

Sharpness is the same on both (10), RC is 15/15 on the Sony scale. RC doesn't function on 4k signals.



Thang


Dosnt it ? ( it long time ago, I did test that ) I mean it do, but it is lot more sutle, so you need to adjust it a lot higher, so see the difference - or do I remember wrong ?


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post #11156 of 11156 Unread Today, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
Turn your sharpness down to 0.



Agree ( actully I have mine at "1" because it ads a better result in combination with the RC on one pixel on/off test patterns and allmost no visible ringing at all )




Didnt you like the 1100 anymore or did you like the X500 better ? ( or is it just because you want te new 4K model from ......WHO ? ....I just lures


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