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post #11401 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 03:47 AM
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Seegs. You state you are "extremely late to the game . . . . " My question to all would be rather poll like. Please select an appropriate category for your interest in projectors. You may select more than one or add more to the choices:


Its:


1. A game;


2. An obsession;


3. Pretty much my whole life, though I have to work to support my purchase of projectors;


4. Its part of my life which I live not in the fast lane, not even in the slow lane, but walking very very slowly on the side walk.
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post #11402 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
When you say its the best motion you have seen, is that with all motion smoothing set to OFF?
Yes, the motion enhancement features are turned off. I broke 'motion' down into two categories on purpose because DLP is still better by a noticeable margin with motion resolution. But the Sony is excellent when it comes to motion reconstruction and how it displays source material. Like I said, next to no added judder, where as other projectors can look choppy with pans even if there's not necessarily motion judder (or that much) inherent in the source. I will post a few tests clips to show people what I'm talking about.
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post #11403 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 09:09 AM
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Does the Sony FMP-X1 (puck, not the newer device) have Netflix 4K capability? Or do I need to buy the newer X10 to get that functionality?
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post #11404 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Does the Sony FMP-X1 (puck, not the newer device) have Netflix 4K capability? Or do I need to buy the newer X10 to get that functionality?
FMP-X1 is worthless................ useless! Either wait a bit for 4k Blueray..........or take chance on streaming with X10. Audio on FMP-X1 was like going back to the stone ages..............wonder if X10 is similar.
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post #11405 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
No, not yet, still don't have an Atmos processor.

But KEF doesn't offer back boxes for the ci200...
Thanks,

Neither do I...................still debating, RS 20i, Altitude..........or 8802a.

Since my Atmos ceiling speakers will be outside of shell, I'm stuck building backer boxes myself using Baltic Birch. With Ci200rr having such a strong motor...........I figured small volume would be ok, but spec indicates otherwise..............infinite baffle is best. After talking to Kef tech support, 20 liters is ideal to reach down to 50 Hz, but I'm only interested in 80 Hz so 10 liters is doable for back box volume.

Still debating................................have to listen to speaker for myself. Tannoy's work as Roger Dressler's setup showcased their application..................
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post #11406 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Does the Sony FMP-X1 (puck, not the newer device) have Netflix 4K capability? Or do I need to buy the newer X10 to get that functionality?
Will not have Netflix 4K streaming with X1. X10 is not an option with the upgrade kit. I asked.

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post #11407 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Thanks,

Neither do I...................still debating, RS 20i, Altitude..........or 8802a.

Since my Atmos ceiling speakers will be outside of shell, I'm stuck building backer boxes myself using Baltic Birch. With Ci200rr having such a strong motor...........I figured small volume would be ok, but spec indicates otherwise..............infinite baffle is best. After talking to Kef tech support, 20 liters is ideal to reach down to 50 Hz, but I'm only interested in 80 Hz so 10 liters is doable for back box volume.

Still debating................................have to listen to speaker for myself. Tannoy's work as Roger Dressler's setup showcased their application..................
If going to cross at 80hz, at least size the box for 70hz. Lower would be even better.

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post #11408 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
If going to cross at 80hz, at least size the box for 70hz. Lower would be even better.

Thanks............will do.

Another question........................

When I had automation done several months ago............I didn't hook up projector, but now have CI back in hooking it up. For some reason, I thought HDMI port 2 was only for 4k server.................guy is in house now hooking up and Oppo which will now only work on port 2, not one. We are both scratching our heads......................

To summarize, had HDMI #1 to OPPO to Marantz and HDMI #2 to 4K server.............................now OPPO only works on #2 . Always thought #2 was for server only.
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post #11409 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Thanks............will do.

Another question........................

When I had automation done several months ago............I didn't hook up projector, but now have CI back in hooking it up. For some reason, I thought HDMI port 2 was only for 4k server.................guy is in house now hooking up and Oppo which will now only work on port 2, not one. We are both scratching our heads......................

To summarize, had HDMI #1 to OPPO to Marantz and HDMI #2 to 4K server.............................now OPPO only works on #2 . Always thought #2 was for server only.
Has Oppo been changed so that it is up-converting to 4K? Oppo set to 1080P and use HDMI #1 . HDMI #2 is for 4K sources.

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post #11410 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Has Oppo been changed so that it is up-converting to 4K? Oppo set to 1080P and use HDMI #1 . HDMI #2 is for 4K sources.
Server was on HDMI #2 ................................pulled it out of system and is sitting on counter.

Oppo will only output if signal is sent to HDMI #2 on projector. HDMI #1 on projector does not show source material.............has to be setting on projector since HDMI #2 shows source material.

Currently, Oppo is set to auto for 4K.................either that or Force setting is only alternative

Never used Oppo to up convert signal...................I've used the projector.
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post #11411 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 02:29 PM
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I thought the main difference with HDMI 2 was that it was the only one that was HDCP 2.2, nothing really to do with 4K or not. So it makes little sense that now you can only get HDMI 2 to work with a source that isn't HDCP 2.2. Maybe some other cabling or component issue? What about another HDMI 1.4 source?

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post #11412 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by turls View Post
I thought the main difference with HDMI 2 was that it was the only one that was HDCP 2.2, nothing really to do with 4K or not. So it makes little sense that now you can only get HDMI 2 to work with a source that isn't HDCP 2.2. Maybe some other cabling or component issue? What about another HDMI 1.4 source?
All was working fine until 4k server was pulled from system............................

I agree................makes no sense whatsoever.....................

Dish Hopper is same too...................only HDMI #2 works...........not #1 .
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post #11413 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
All was working fine until 4k server was pulled from system............................

I agree................makes no sense whatsoever.....................

Dish Hopper is same too...................only HDMI #2 works...........not #1 .

Hav you chcked the HDMI cable on the "1" ( maybe it broke when you pulled the server out ) ?


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post #11414 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 03:10 PM
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As I said before I'd be uploading a few clips of motion where I feel the Sony pulls ahead of the JVC and some of the DLP projectors I've had here. These clips have motion judder in the source and from what I've seen, even though it's still visible with the projector displaying it, the Sony seems to handle it just a little better than most projectors out there and will display a little less judder and definitely better motion resolution compared to my X500:

http://www.mediafire.com/?t396zz2299bh002
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post #11415 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 05:18 PM
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Hav you chcked the HDMI cable on the "1" ( maybe it broke when you pulled the server out ) ?


dj
Cable is fine.......works on #2 but not one.
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post #11416 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 05:52 PM
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I know I'm extremely late to the game with this projector (even the 1100ES is over a year old now) but I just wanted to give some thoughts after spending a week with the projector. I've put roughly 40 hours on the unit this past week. For some reason my recollection after getting to play around with Mark Haflich's 1100ES last fall didn't leave me with the same impressions I have now with my unit. I don't know why but my projector just seems so much more "dynamic"? If I recall we were using Cinema 1 mode and I've been doing the bulk of my viewing in Reference mode. The former is far dimmer and I think this is why my experience with my unit has been so different. Rather than post a extremely lengthy essay I'll simply say the reivew @Kris Deering did of the 1100ES over at Sound and Vision (posted here) is spot on with my impressions so far. Kris and I have always seemed to agree on things. I also think he's one of the most honest reviewers out there. He tells it like it is. But I want to add on to his review and make a couple points that I think are worth saying about this projector.

The first thing I want to talk about is motion, and more specifically, motion resolution and motion processing. In many ways this projector reminds me of a high end DLP projector. These units have excellent motion processing and subjective motion resolution is much better than I expected. Better than the other Sony units I've had here. This is one reason why I say this projector resembles a high end DLP projector. Motion resolution, aka the ability to maintain detail inherent in the source during motion, has always been one of the weaknesses of non-DLP projectors. This unit is by far and large the closest you can currently get to DLP in this regard. There is next to no visible added “smear” or ghost trails added by the LCoS panel with a 24p image. On top of that, I’ve never seen a projector with better motion processing. Motion processing deals with recreating the cadence of the movie. Typically this will be 24 frames per second or more specifically 24/1001 as the way it’s meant to be played back through our consumer devices. Proper cadence reconstruction will yield you smoother pans and other motion shots. I've noticed many times that pans and other motion at various speeds on my JVC DLA-X500 can look a bit too choppy. Now, I realize there are very real limitations with shooting films at 24 frames per second and those motion limitations can be captured and be inherent in the source material. But fear not, a simple A/B comparison of two displays can show which one is better at recreating cadence and if one is worse off it will show itself in a visible way. This is how I noticed the JVC had some issues with it. This Sony simply adds less choppiness if there's some in the source. In fact it looks better than most high end DLP projectors I've seen too. Motion shots in films will look as they should on the 1000ES and that is a very exciting feature to have. I don't know if this is some sort of processing technique or if it has to do with the 240hz (10:10 pulldown) native refresh rate of the projector or possibly a combination of both. Either way, I love it.

And the last point I want talk about is how natural the image looks. Again, this is a trait I normally classify a high end DLP projector with having. I've never (NEVER) seen an LCD-variant projector have this quality before. There is an effortless look to the image that is addicting. I've never seen a JVC or Epson projector have this trait. I don't know what creates it. I would imagine it's a combination of high ANSI contrast, great lens quality, subjectively good motion handling, and video processing that does as little as possible to the incoming image to create this natural "look". The Sony has all of these characteristics in spades so it's no wonder it has this quality. By comparison, a current generation JVC can look a little more digital. Sometimes the image takes on a pasty appearance with a subtly harsh look. It's subtle on the JVC but after seeing so many DLP projectors it's just something I've noticed on the JVCs. The Sony never appears this way and, again, resembles a high end DLP by comparison. Kudos to Sony for this. This is one of those elusive qualities I thought I'd only ever see on a DLP projector. So while the on/off contrast isn't at the JVC level, it is noticeably better than the DLP competition currently out there. With this higher on/off contrast compared to DLP projectors and class leading ANSI contrast, nearly all material looks excellent in terms of intra-scene contrast and looks state of the art. Only the darkest of material favors the JVC. If Sony could just get native contrast to around 20000:1 with the iris open at max zoom, with it's great dynamic iris implementation on board, I think this projector would literally be the best projector for every situation out there. But as that isn't the case I'll be keeping my X500 for the time being for content that's particularly dark. Maybe Sony will introduce a 1200ES with better contrast? One can hope....

Anyways...this went longer than I meant it to. But the owners of this projector already know what I'm talking about as most of them have had it for a few years now. Enjoy your projectors. I suspect we'll be getting many years of enjoyment to come as UHD bluray isn't even here yet.
I am forever indebted to Mark Haflich for convincing me to spring for the Sony 1000 when it first came out. Yes, tt was expensive, but has probably been the wisest HT decision i've ever made; even to this date (with the upgrade to the 1100) there is still little motivation to seek an upgrade. And this may well be the case for another yr or two. With a 12 ft wide HP2.4 screen (for 2.35} it still awes me with the viewing experience (as I'm now watching Maria Sharapova in the Madrid tennis semifinals).
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post #11417 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 08:09 PM
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As I said before I'd be uploading a few clips of motion where I feel the Sony pulls ahead of the JVC and some of the DLP projectors I've had here. These clips have motion judder in the source and from what I've seen, even though it's still visible with the projector displaying it, the Sony seems to handle it just a little better than most projectors out there and will display a little less judder and definitely better motion resolution compared to my X500:

http://www.mediafire.com/?t396zz2299bh002

That's interesting thanks for sharing Seegs, but Gee it still looks horrible, especially on those posters on the wall of the first clip!
I wish things were better than this....

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post #11418 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 08:25 PM
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That's interesting thanks for sharing Seegs, but Gee it still looks horrible, especially on those posters on the wall of the first clip!
I wish things were better than this....
These three clips really show off the limitation that 24 frames per second capture has. Though, that clip of The Hobbit really deserves some slack. The movie was captured at 48fps and when capturing a scene at this higher frame rate you can pull of motion shots with a lot more speed before judder shows up and I suspect this is just what we get with the 24fps version of the film. The DP of The Hobbit (Andrew Lesnie, who actually died a few weeks ago) tried his best to find a middle ground because he knew the movie would be shown at both frame rates. There are still some shots that took it too far for 24fps and we get a bit of noticeable judder more often than most Hollywood movies.
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post #11419 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 08:29 PM
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These three clips really show off the limitation that 24 frames per second capture has. Though, that clip of The Hobbit really deserves some slack. The movie was captured at 48fps and when capturing a scene at this higher frame rate you can pull of motion shots with a lot more speed before judder shows up and I suspect this is just what we get with the 24fps version of the film. The DP of The Hobbit (Andrew Lesnie, who actually died a few weeks ago) tried his best to find a middle ground because he knew the movie would be shown at both frame rates. There are still some shots that took it too far for 24fps and we get a bit of noticeable judder more often than most Hollywood movies.

Can you explain the difference with 50 and 60 BDs, are they better than 24?

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post #11420 of 11703 Old 05-08-2015, 09:20 PM
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Can you explain the difference with 50 and 60 BDs, are they better than 24?
Are you referring to 1080i50 and 1080i60? The bluray standard doesn't allow for progressive material at such frame rates. With 1080i50 and 1080i60 IVTC (inverse telecine) is used to recreate 1080p24 and 1080p25.
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post #11421 of 11703 Old 05-09-2015, 03:54 AM
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Mark, anther great game last night - Holtby and Lundqvuist are having an epic battle in goal not seen in decades.

I should be a coach! I said earlier the Rangers need to try stay a little wider around the cluster-f of the Capitals D and work the puck back to point/trailers to get some different angles to Holtby - and both goals for the Rangers were in that vein...

I don't know if any remembers the VPL-VW85, but for some reason, that was my top projector for motion handling, even better than the 1100. But the 1100 is very good, and certainly better than my past RS-50...

As a hockey savant, it might also be that shooting techniques have changed over the years since the 85, making motion more challenging. At times, I feel there is an effort to frame shots a bit tighter, making camera panning motion worse.

NHL really needs to look at more end-zone cameras (which are used sometimes during power plays) - almost no camera motion, and you see the plays develop from a goalies perspective, with the full width of the ice filling the frame. I'd also like to see cameras-by-wire over the length of the ice, similar to NFL over-field cameras, to move with the play from one zone to the next.
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post #11422 of 11703 Old 05-09-2015, 06:35 AM
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This has been one great series. Yes. You should be coaching hockey somewhere.


I think overhead moving cameras ala the NFL gyro cameras on wires would be a lot more noticeable to the fans above the camera level since they sit so much closer than at a NFL stadium. Of course the NHL could give two fecals of what the fans think. They have nets blocking the view in the end zones to protect us (really to lower their legal liability disclosure) and now hold up face offs for the time commercials are running. I remember the days when this was not done and it caused the whole pace of the game to change Fans would be screaming for the puck to be dropped and the refs just kept holding it with the players ready to go as soon as the ref got the green light from the TV director.




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post #11423 of 11703 Old 05-09-2015, 07:10 AM
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BTW. The Sony puck is not worthless. It has a salvage value and, if not sold for salvage value, it can be used for a variety of purposes such as a pie crust weight, a boat anchor, door stop etc. The list is endless. We have gone through this before. Its like any piece of technology, today's joy is tomorrow's relic. I know you were forced to buy it. I look at it as a freebee with the upgrade motherboard. The tablet is still useful
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post #11424 of 11703 Old 05-09-2015, 11:23 PM
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Speaking of the ill fated Puck... A friend is coming over for dinner next week and wants to see a 4k source. I figured I better turn the thing on and make sure it works. Low and behold after wrangling with trying to remember my Sony password, I get no audio from HDMI 2 from the puck. It claims it is outputting audio on HDMI 2 but Nada, Nill, Zilch. Tried the cable swap bit,etc....
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post #11425 of 11703 Old 05-10-2015, 02:38 AM
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Try going into the settings and turning audio off/on. Remember you get to it on the app by hitting the three vertical dots. BTW Please send me my password. I haven't a clue.

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post #11426 of 11703 Old 05-11-2015, 09:06 AM
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So I ordered the Philips bulb on eBay, will likely install over the weekend, and we'll see...

Time to find my rubber surgical gloves and goggles...
How did it go? Want more than one opinion on the complexity of this before I pull the trigger.

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post #11427 of 11703 Old 05-11-2015, 10:13 AM
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No issues - just take a few photos along the way in case you get confused - all the screws were the same - took about 6 minutes
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post #11428 of 11703 Old 05-11-2015, 11:23 AM
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Thrang. Now a game 7. So many shots in game 6, it could have been a NBA playoff game instead.

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post #11429 of 11703 Old 05-11-2015, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
Thrang. Now a game 7. So many shots in game 6, it could have been a NBA playoff game instead.
What was interesting was though there was an obvious big push by the Caps, they actually landed only two shots on net in the final five and half minutes, which included a power play...saw the end of the game again this morning and paid attention to that...
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post #11430 of 11703 Old 05-11-2015, 03:18 PM
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For a truly great spectacle, tune to the UEFA Championship semi-final game between Barcelona and Bayern Munich. It is tomorrow at 2:45pm EST. The first leg was last week in Barcelona and was quite a show.
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