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post #11701 of 11708 Unread Yesterday, 06:25 PM
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Ive been meaning to post this question for over a year, finally Im doing it.


I notice a horrible before/after artefact with motion on my 1100. If a person walks across the screen medium speed you see an artefact all round their face and body, this happens even with all motion controls turned to off. Now my screen is large so these things certainly are magnified, probably on a 120" screen it would be greatly reduced. Is this a BD 1080p conversion artefact to the 4K panel?


I had the 500/600 before I replaced it with the 1100, and really motion did look better on the cheaper model, maybe something was improved on it???


Thoughts please guys???

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post #11702 of 11708 Unread Yesterday, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Ive been meaning to post this question for over a year, finally Im doing it.


I notice a horrible before/after artefact with motion on my 1100. If a person walks across the screen medium speed you see an artefact all round their face and body, this happens even with all motion controls turned to off. Now my screen is large so these things certainly are magnified, probably on a 120" screen it would be greatly reduced. Is this a BD 1080p conversion artefact to the 4K panel?


I had the 500/600 before I replaced it with the 1100, and really motion did look better on the cheaper model, maybe something was improved on it???


Thoughts please guys???
Two questions:

1.) Do you see this artifact frequently or is it only on specific material? Do you see it on blu-ray discs?

2.) Do you have reality creation on? If so, what settings are you using?

I ask these questions because if you're only seeing this artifact with content from, say, Netflix or some other lower grade/lower bitrate/poorly encoded content this issue may just be inherent in the source and not a problem with the projector itself. Secondly it could just be that, depending on how high you have RC set to, it could be creating or exaggerating some noise, macroblocking, ect to the point where you can visibly see it.

I personally don't see this issue with my 1100ES, but I typically only watch blu-rays or web-downloaded TV shows with pretty decent encoding. I also use RC very sparingly. I suspect it's easily seen on HDTV broadcasts from cable or satellite and other things like YouTube or Netlfix on such a large screen. If you think it's an upscaling issue you could try and use an outboard scaling solution like from a PC, blu-ray player, receiver or Lumagen to try and take out as many variables as possible. Do you have any other sources altering the video signal in your chain?
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post #11703 of 11708 Unread Yesterday, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Two questions:

1.) Do you see this artifact frequently or is it only on specific material? Do you see it on blu-ray discs?

2.) Do you have reality creation on? If so, what settings are you using?

I ask these questions because if you're only seeing this artifact with content from, say, Netflix or some other lower grade/lower bitrate/poorly encoded content this issue may just be inherent in the source and not a problem with the projector itself. Secondly it could just be that, depending on how high you have RC set to, it could be creating or exaggerating some noise, macroblocking, ect to the point where you can visibly see it.

I personally don't see this issue with my 1100ES, but I typically only watch blu-rays or web-downloaded TV shows with pretty decent encoding. I also use RC very sparingly. I suspect it's easily seen on HDTV broadcasts from cable or satellite and other things like YouTube or Netlfix on such a large screen. If you think it's an upscaling issue you could try and use an outboard scaling solution like from a PC, blu-ray player, receiver or Lumagen to try and take out as many variables as possible. Do you have any other sources altering the video signal in your chain?
Thanks Seegs for getting back on this.


I only use BD nothing else. I also use a Lumagen but only as a pass through for stretch on scope. I use a PC, all my BDs are ripped to it. I have the Lumagen set to Auto 2.1
I also believe very very occasionally I see a tiny skipped frame, yet this isn't the problem Im describing.


I do use RC and the built in Darbee in the Lumagen. I wonder if it is RC or the darbee that's bring the artefact in?


When I turn on the Projector in about an hour I'll tell you the RC and Darbee settings I have. Do you use both and have you experimented how far you can use these settings? What size screen do you use?

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post #11704 of 11708 Unread Yesterday, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Thanks Seegs for getting back on this.


I only use BD nothing else. I also use a Lumagen but only as a pass through for stretch on scope. I use a PC, all my BDs are ripped to it. I have the Lumagen set to Auto 2.1
I also believe very very occasionally I see a tiny skipped frame, yet this isn't the problem Im describing.


I do use RC and the built in Darbee in the Lumagen. I wonder if it is RC or the darbee that's bring the artefact in?


When I turn on the Projector in about an hour I'll tell you the RC and Darbee settings I have. Do you use both and have you experimented how far you can use these settings? What size screen do you use?
I can't use my Darblet because I'm using MadVR's JINC/NNEDI3 to scale the image and I output UHD to the projector. It does a better job at scaling than the 1100ES. The Darblet will only accept 1080p. I do use RC with a UHD input, set to 20 under Resolution and Noise Reduction is set to 0. When you input a 4K/UHD signal to the 1100ES RC is extremely lite and doesn't alter the video much.

Next time you see the artifact, remove the Darblet and disable RC and see if you can still see it. Also, let me know which blu-ray you see it on and an time code. If I have the blu-ray I'll check it out and see if I can see it too. My screen size is 7 feet wide but I can move closer to my screen if necessary.
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post #11705 of 11708 Unread Yesterday, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I can't use my Darblet because I'm using MadVR's JINC/NNEDI3 to scale the image and I output UHD to the projector. It does a better job at scaling than the 1100ES. The Darblet will only accept 1080p. I do use RC with a UHD input, set to 20 under Resolution and Noise Reduction is set to 0. When you input a 4K/UHD signal to the 1100ES RC is extremely lite and doesn't alter the video much.

Next time you see the artifact, remove the Darblet and disable RC and see if you can still see it. Also, let me know which blu-ray you see it on and an time code. If I have the blu-ray I'll check it out and see if I can see it too. My screen size is 7 feet wide but I can move closer to my screen if necessary.
Im going to check all this out in approx. 1 hour and Ill get back. Many thanks!

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post #11706 of 11708 Unread Yesterday, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I can't use my Darblet because I'm using MadVR's JINC/NNEDI3 to scale the image and I output UHD to the projector. It does a better job at scaling than the 1100ES. The Darblet will only accept 1080p. I do use RC with a UHD input, set to 20 under Resolution and Noise Reduction is set to 0. When you input a 4K/UHD signal to the 1100ES RC is extremely lite and doesn't alter the video much.

Next time you see the artifact, remove the Darblet and disable RC and see if you can still see it. Also, let me know which blu-ray you see it on and an time code. If I have the blu-ray I'll check it out and see if I can see it too. My screen size is 7 feet wide but I can move closer to my screen if necessary.

I just checked!
I have RC Databass set to Normal
Resolution = 12
Noise Filter = 12
Darbee on Lumagen = 40


I see the artefacts on many films. One I just checked again with your setting of 20 Resolution and no noise filter on is "The International" Right at the start with the main titles in white bottom right, watch as people move past the titles with black umbrellas, its shocking! This is exactly the same artefact I see on the screen when people move swiftly across the screen on every Bluray. Mind you I do have very good glasses that you see the hair in ones ears and nose.


I just hate this, been seeing it on the 1100 since day 1!
500/600 looked much cleaner.

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Last edited by RapalloAV; Yesterday at 10:04 PM.
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post #11707 of 11708 Unread Yesterday, 10:10 PM
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No good Seegs, I see the before and after artefact with everything turned off or on.


Turned off RC, still there.
Turned off Darbee, still there.
Turned off sharpness, still there.
Turned off sharpness on Lumagen, still there.
I always use very minimal settings, even less than you.
Its always there on moving objects no matter what!
Probably don't see it without my glasses, but that's no good for watching films, I like a real clean sharp image....


Image is amazing, but artefact is a shocker! Ive seen this on the 1100 now since I got the projector over a year ago. Was a heap better on my 500/600.
Ive never mentioned this as I just thought it was the nature of the beast. As it was cleaner on the 500/600 I had, I thought is was something that Sony knew about and addressed/improved on the newer 500/600 model.

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post #11708 of 11708 Unread Today, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
I also believe very very occasionally I see a tiny skipped frame, yet this isn't the problem Im describing.
What is your Rate Match setting on the Lumagen? Set to Yes to help with the odd frame skip...

MENU → Output → Styles → [Styles] → HDMI Format → Rate Match → (No, Yes)

Are you sure the "artefact" you are describing isn't simply the image retention that all SXRD/LCOS/LCD has?

Try turning on black frame insertion to see if it improves things...

My cinema: The Cave!

My kit: 15' 2.35:1 Screen Research CP2 4-way mask, Sony vw1000es, Lumagen 2144, Meridian 861/621/7x5500/2xSW5500


Last edited by Mark_H; Today at 12:31 AM.
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