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Old 08-29-2015, 05:58 AM
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I have that BD disc. When I get home later I'll check it out. I'm pretty critical when it comes to artifacts that most would find trivial. If I see even a trace of it, I'll let you know. From what I've seen, these SXRD panels are the closest to DLP when it comes to motion. I can't remember a time where I thought there was something visibly wrong with motion, especially with a 24p signal. Visibly better than JVC's DiLA panels and better than what I saw from Epson's LCoQ panels inside their LS10000 when it comes to motion handling and the sample-and-hold artifact, or should I say a lack there of.
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Old 08-29-2015, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I have that BD disc. When I get home later I'll check it out. I'm pretty critical when it comes to artifacts that most would find trivial. If I see even a trace of it, I'll let you know. From what I've seen, these SXRD panels are the closest to DLP when it comes to motion. I can't remember a time where I thought there was something visibly wrong with motion, especially with a 24p signal. Visibly better than JVC's DiLA panels and better than what I saw from Epson's LCoQ panels inside their LS10000 when it comes to motion handling and the sample-and-hold artifact, or should I say a lack there of.

Gee I do hope Im not more critical than most then as I see it often on a lot of BDs!
Maybe my glasses are just too good!

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Old 08-29-2015, 06:08 AM
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I have the Lumagen set to Rate Match YES, that's correct isn't it?
Yes.

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Yes maybe the artefact I see is the image retention that's on SXRD, strange thought that no one else sees this and complains about it???
Well, image retention on the Sony bothers me, but there's not much to do about it... you can try black frame insertion, but for me it robs too much light. I need a much brighter projector to start with. For now, it's the price I have to pay for the Sony's other great attributes.

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Old 08-29-2015, 06:13 AM
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Yes.



Well, image retention on the Sony bothers me, but there's not much to do about it... you can try black frame insertion, but for me it robs too much light. I need a much brighter projector to start with. For now, it's the price I have to pay for the Sony's other great attributes.
I don't use black frame either as it robs too much light on my 145" scope AT screen. I have a feeling that using it might help, but Im not prepared to have a dim image!

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Old 08-29-2015, 11:29 AM
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Is it possible if you took the Lumagen out of the equation it would be gone or greatly reduced?

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Old 08-29-2015, 12:49 PM
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Is it possible if you took the Lumagen out of the equation it would be gone or greatly reduced?
I dont really think so, Lumagen is not known for adding artefacts! As I mentioned I tested turning any enhancements off on the Lumagen, still there.

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Old 08-29-2015, 12:54 PM
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I dont really think so, Lumagen is not known for adding artefacts! As I mentioned I tested turning any enhancements off on the Lumagen, still there.
I wasn't meaning them in general but maybe there is an issue with yours in particular? Not trying to pick on Lumagen Just stating there has to be something causing it.

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Old 08-29-2015, 12:56 PM
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I dont really think so, Lumagen is not known for adding artefacts! As I mentioned I tested turning any enhancements off on the Lumagen, still there.
But when troubleshooting, simplify...take the lumagen out of the equation and see if the condition changes...
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Old 08-29-2015, 12:58 PM
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I wasn't meaning them in general but maybe there is an issue with yours in particular? Not trying to pick on Lumagen Just stating there has to be something causing it.
Yes I can do that but I believe its the nature of the VW1100 panels, not sure though why others don't see it, my eyes cant be better than all of you. Have you not got a copy of "The International" to test? Everyone who cares about good quality images should have this movie.


Im waiting on Seegs to get back to me, he has the movie.

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Old 08-29-2015, 12:59 PM
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But when troubleshooting, simplify...take the lumagen out of the equation and see if the condition changes...
Yes going to try that.

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Old 08-29-2015, 01:38 PM
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Yes I can do that but I believe its the nature of the VW1100 panels, not sure though why others don't see it, my eyes cant be better than all of you. Have you not got a copy of "The International" to test? Everyone who cares about good quality images should have this movie.


Im waiting on Seegs to get back to me, he has the movie.
I don't have that one. It came out during a dark time in my life I refer to as the war. Actually it was during my divorce. I will order it now from Amazon unless BB has a copy in their store.

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Old 08-29-2015, 03:53 PM
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I watched the scene Murray is referring to. In this case, the artifact is inherent in the source material. I saw what he was referring to and tested it out on the 1100ES, my LG 34UM95 monitor and then on my Planar PD8150 for good measure. The same artifact was there on three displays. Murray, I think what you're seeing on blu-ray is simply the limitation of 24p capture. It can make things look a little stuttery, blurry and some times cause oddities like the one you saw on The International.

Here is a NNEDI3/JINC scaled image to UHD of a single frame of the movie in question:

http://i.imgur.com/uuBBvDm.jpg

In this frame you see no oddities, but when you playback the scene it looks like there are odd things going on with the umbrella and around the people faces. Almost like the pixels are being scrambled up. I think the motion was too fast for the camera/capture settings which resulted in the artifact seen when played back. But like I said, individual frame captures show no issues.

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Old 08-29-2015, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I watched the scene Murray is referring to. In this case, the artifact is inherent in the source material. I saw what he was referring to and tested it out on the 1100ES, my LG 34UM95 monitor and then on my Planar PD8150 for good measure. The same artifact was there on three displays. Murray, I think what you're seeing on blu-ray is simply the limitation of 24p capture. It can make things look a little stuttery, blurry and some times cause oddities like the one you saw on The International.

Here is a NNEDI3/JINC scaled image to UHD of a single frame of the movie in question:

http://i.imgur.com/uuBBvDm.jpg

In this frame you see no oddities, but when you playback the scene it looks like there are odd things going on with the umbrella and around the people faces. Almost like the pixels are being scrambled up. I think the motion was too fast for the camera/capture settings which resulted in the artifact seen when played back. But like I said, individual frame captures show no issues.
That's great news that you too have now seen it, Im thrilled.
At least it points out that its not my Lumagen or projector, thank God!


This same type of artefact I see from time to time on my VW1100. Usually when a person is moving fast across the screen. I also now wonder if its not enhanced with my Isco III, since the stretch sideways would make the artefact look wider! I don't think Ive noticed this on 16:9 films, probably more pronounced with the A lens in place. Yet A lens or not, it does prove that its in the projected image and can show up in the right type of scene.


Well it is what it is, so I may as well put that one to bed

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Old 08-29-2015, 04:12 PM
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That's great news that you too have now seen it, Im thrilled.
At least it points out that its not my Lumagen or projector, thank God!


This same type of artefact I see from time to time on my VW1100. Usually when a person is moving fast across the screen. I also now wonder if its not enhanced with my Isco III, since the stretch sideways would make the artefact look wider! I don't think Ive noticed this on 16:9 films, probably more pronounced with the A lens in place. Yet A lens or not, it does prove that its in the projected image and can show up in the right type of scene.


Well it is what it is, so I may as well put that one to bed
Have you tried to use the Lumagen for the anamorphic zoom to see it the artifacts are lessened? The Lumagen site has a tip sheet on how to set up the Lumagen for this.
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Old 08-29-2015, 04:38 PM
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Have you tried to use the Lumagen for the anamorphic zoom to see it the artifacts are lessened? The Lumagen site has a tip sheet on how to set up the Lumagen for this.
No I haven't and I wouldn't, I don't like seeing stuff below or above the top and bottom masking. The A lens gives a much cleaner image since everything is masked perfectly, so in that case I would prefer to see the occasional artefact.

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Old 08-30-2015, 12:26 AM
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Yeah, no need to point a finger at the Lumagen here... if there are artefacts, they are caused by the projector.

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Old 08-30-2015, 02:40 AM
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A few questions for you folks:
Do you guys use "2.35 Zoom" or "Normal" for 2.35 films? I want to make sure I'm using all the pixels effectively. I tried searching but I'm having trouble finding a straight answer. Also, do any of you have to decrease the brightness on your vw1100es's significantly? If I don't set it at ~20-25 (or lower - I had Skyfall at around 10-15 brightness to look decent to me), I get washed out milky blacks. I've been reading a lot of folks keeping their brightness at around the default of 50, which would keep the blacks way too washed out for me. My vw1000es (upgraded to vw1100es) is about 14.5 feet from a 130" diagonal .9 gain screen. Any settings I should look at to get the deepest blacks without significantly decreasing the brightness of everything else? I'm having issues from film to film with getting good black levels while maintaining a bright image (I have to keep adjusting brightness up or down which is driving me a little nuts. This is my first projector so maybe this is normal?). I've messed with the Dynamic Iris and it seems 'Auto Full' seems to work the best..

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Old 08-30-2015, 02:55 AM
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A few questions for you folks:
Do you guys use "2.35 Zoom" or "Normal" for 2.35 films? I want to make sure I'm using all the pixels effectively. I tried searching but I'm having trouble finding a straight answer. Also, do any of you have to decrease the brightness on your vw1100es's significantly? If I don't set it at ~20-25 (or lower - I had Skyfall at around 10-15 brightness to look decent to me), I get washed out milky blacks. I've been reading a lot of folks keeping their brightness at around the default of 50, which would keep the blacks way too washed out for me. My vw1000es (upgraded to vw1100es) is about 14.5 feet from a 130" diagonal .9 gain screen. Any settings I should look at to get the deepest blacks? I'm having issues from film to film with getting good black levels (I have to keep adjusting brightness up or down which is driving me a little nuts. This is my first projector so maybe this is normal?).
You don´t set your brightness based on different films you set it according to a brightness pattern, if you have to set your 1100 down to around 20-25 it is something seriously wrong as it should be set at around 50 in most cases.

And if you use the 2.35 Zoom on the 1100ES you use the whole 4096x2160 pixels of the chip when watching a 16x9 film, but if you use the zoom function on a 2.35:1 screen you don´t use the whole chip as you loose many pixels in the black bars.
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Old 08-30-2015, 03:38 AM
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The Lumagen and the projector should be at default for correct brightness and contrast - no need to change as both devices are well behaved in regards digital signals. As Andreas says, use test patterns to set verify this: the Lumagen even has built in patterns you can use.

Check that the HDMI setting on the projector is set to Auto.

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Old 08-30-2015, 05:51 AM
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Yeah, no need to point a finger at the Lumagen here... if there are artefacts, they are caused by the projector.
I own a Lumagen. They can glitch. And there are numerous settings that, if not correct, and degrade the picture. So from a video issue troubleshooting perspective, in principle it makes sense to remove a video processor as a split half process to isolate.
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Old 08-30-2015, 06:30 AM
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I own a Lumagen. They can glitch. And there are numerous settings that, if not correct, and degrade the picture. So from a video issue troubleshooting perspective, in principle it makes sense to remove a video processor as a split half process to isolate.
These devices are not infallible like some would make them out to be. It's process of elimination to finding out where the issue is sourced from.
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Old 08-30-2015, 08:50 AM
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I own a Lumagen. They can glitch. And there are numerous settings that, if not correct, and degrade the picture. So from a video issue troubleshooting perspective, in principle it makes sense to remove a video processor as a split half process to isolate.
Well, yes, the user can mess things up, of course, but the Lumagen itself is not going to randomly "degrade"; at least I've never experienced that and have owned all the models...

I suspect user error.

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Old 08-30-2015, 08:59 AM
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Well, yes, the user can mess things up, of course, but the Lumagen itself is not going to randomly "degrade"; at least I've never experienced that and have owned all the models...

I suspect user error.
I've already concluded that the artifact is in the source...
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Old 08-30-2015, 10:19 AM
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You don´t set your brightness based on different films you set it according to a brightness pattern, if you have to set your 1100 down to around 20-25 it is something seriously wrong as it should be set at around 50 in most cases.

And if you use the 2.35 Zoom on the 1100ES you use the whole 4096x2160 pixels of the chip when watching a 16x9 film, but if you use the zoom function on a 2.35:1 screen you don´t use the whole chip as you loose many pixels in the black bars.
Where can I get an accurate brightness test pattern for the vw1100es? Also, I'm using the "Reference" preset and most advanced features are turned off. Anything that could be causing me to have to turn down the brightness that I might be overlooking? One thing I probably should note is that my room has tan walls and carpeting. The projector is also on an ottoman pretty close to the carpet (yes, it's a very lame looking theater right now).

The room will be 'theater-ized' in about 4-5 months from now with proper wall treatments, etc to turn it as dark as possible, reduce reflections and acoustically treat it. Even though it's pitch black in the room with the lights turned off, do you think the lighter color of the walls could be causing such milky blacks at "50" brightness? I wouldn't think it'd be so dramatic. You have me worried as something "seriously wrong" with a non-warrantied projector is not what I like to hear. Surely this must be something I'm overlooking as overall PQ looks beautiful but the blacks are having issues unless brightness is brought down. Please help!

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Old 08-30-2015, 09:08 PM
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Where can I get an accurate brightness test pattern for the vw1100es? Also, I'm using the "Reference" preset and most advanced features are turned off. Anything that could be causing me to have to turn down the brightness that I might be overlooking? One thing I probably should note is that my room has tan walls and carpeting. The projector is also on an ottoman pretty close to the carpet (yes, it's a very lame looking theater right now).

The room will be 'theater-ized' in about 4-5 months from now with proper wall treatments, etc to turn it as dark as possible, reduce reflections and acoustically treat it. Even though it's pitch black in the room with the lights turned off, do you think the lighter color of the walls could be causing such milky blacks at "50" brightness? I wouldn't think it'd be so dramatic. You have me worried as something "seriously wrong" with a non-warrantied projector is not what I like to hear. Surely this must be something I'm overlooking as overall PQ looks beautiful but the blacks are having issues unless brightness is brought down. Please help!
A signal generator like an AccuPel if you want ultimate accuracy . But really just get a calibration disk like DVE HD or Spears & Munsil, which I personally prefer. You can also burn some test patterns to disc, there's been threads about it over the years in the forums here. You can also generate with HTPC and patterns on file, which I quite often use to check my PC's output into the 1100 etc. You need to sort that extremely low brightness setting out, if I put mine down that far you'd see no detail at all in black.

Tan walls are a bit better that white. I doubt though you'd perceive a black level issue with that wall colouring, probably the opposite. The darker you make the room the more you'll be able to perceive any limitations with a projector's black level capabilities, something I'm starting to be able to observe now that I've built a new room and with a mid grey wall and ceiling colour.

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Old 08-30-2015, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
A signal generator like an AccuPel if you want to ultimate accuracy . But really just get a calibration disk like DVE HD or Spears & Munsil, which I personally prefer. You can also burn some test patterns to disc, there's been threads about it over the years in the forums here. You can also generate with HTPC and patterns on file, which I quite often use to check my PC's output into the 1100 etc. You need to sort that extremely low brightness setting out, if I put mine down that far you'd see no detail at all in black.

Tan walls are a bit better that white. I doubt though you'd perceive a black level issue with that wall colouring, probably the opposite. The darker you make the room the more you'll be able to perceive any limitations with a projector's black level capabilities, something I'm starting to be able to observe now that I've built a new room and with a mid grey wall and ceiling colour.
Thanks Oz - I'm actually using a matte white milliskin spandex screen with grey spandex behind it (courtesy of the DIY section here.... This will be completely temporary until my actual Seymour screen comes in a few months), but even when projected on the bare tan wall I experienced the same issue needing to decrease brightness. Are there any in-menu settings I should look at that could possibly create washed out blacks? I did futz around with settings quite a bit, but nothing really seemed to do anything dramatic. Reference is definitely the setting I like the most. Is there any way it could just be the tan walls bouncing light and washing out the black levels? Again, this is my first projector - I'm starting as a total newb here so I apologize if I'm asking silly questions...

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Old 08-30-2015, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
Thanks Oz - I'm actually using a white spandex screen with grey spandex behind it, but even when projected on the bare tan wall I experienced the same issue needing to decrease brightness. are there any in-menu settings I should look at that could possibly create washed out blacks?
Not sure what a 'spandex' screen is, sounds like some kind of female hosiery. Of course wall or materials you project on to are going to influence your image results. If all your settings are otherwise untouched out of the box, then reference should be yielding a damn sight better picture than you're experiencing currently. I can't think of a way to screw up your black levels that dramatically with settings other than brightness on the projector side. There a few ways to screw it up from the source, like wrong output levels say 0-255 PC vs 16-235 Video. A good question is are you trying other sources, like Cable/Sat/FTA, media players, etc. and experiencing the same issues?
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Old 08-30-2015, 09:34 PM
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I'll try connecting the puck tonight and see what happens... Right now it's hooked up to a SurfacePro3 tablet via DisplayPort-to-HDMI. No strange settings on the SurfacePro3 that I'm aware of.
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Old 08-30-2015, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
I'll try connecting the puck tonight and see what happens... Right now it's hooked up to a SurfacePro3 tablet via DisplayPort-to-HDMI. No strange settings on the SurfacePro3 that I'm aware of.
Unless I missed it, you haven't said what your source devices are, what receiver or pre-pro your connecting through to the 1100, any video processors, etc...what's the "map" of your set up, and what are video related settings in each device (as noted earlier, this sounds like an HDMI brightness range mismatch)

It's hard to help without some level of detail...
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Last edited by thrang; 08-31-2015 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 08-30-2015, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Unless I missed it, you haven't said what your source devices are, what receiver or pre-pro your connecting through to the 1100, any video processors, etc...what's the "map" of your set up, and what are video related settings in each device (as noted earlier, this sounds like an HDMI brightness range mismatch)

It's hard to help some level of detail...
Absolutely nothing. I literally have a Surface Pro hooked up directly to the projector and I'm listening to movies on headphones. It's the absolute saddest thing you'll ever see. The projector is sitting on an ottoman right now - it's not even ceiling mounted since I'm waiting for a chief mount to come in
Everything is trickling in slowly over the next few months... All equipment is ordered or pre-ordered as we speak with exception to a few things, since construction is starting months from now. All I have now is the projector, DIY screen and a SurfacePro3 - nothing betwixt them.

Last edited by voodoo1694; 08-30-2015 at 10:01 PM.
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