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post #11791 of 14231 Old 09-09-2015, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I currently use a JVC X500 and I anticipated a new 4K projector from JVC or Sony, but it did not happen. The VW1200 can still be launched next year, but I think a 4K laser from Sony with a anticipated price of EUR 40000 is much more than I am willing to pay. You get 95% of the performance of a VW1100 (with a 1080p Source) in the JVC X500 for less than 5000$ so I am going to stick with the JVC E-Shift models for a while now waiting for a cheaper and maby better 4K model in the near future.


And three years with a projector is over 3 times as long as I have ever owned a projector so for me it was time to sell the VW1100 anyway.


And I meant to say I will miss it even less when the Xx000 series is launched.
How long did you own the 1100 for and how much did you loose when selling it?

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post #11792 of 14231 Old 09-09-2015, 09:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
How long did you own the 1100 for and how much did you loose when selling it?

I had it for three years as I had the VW1000 since launch and upgraded it to a 1100 when the upgrade came available here in Norway.

I did not loose that much.
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post #11793 of 14231 Old 09-09-2015, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
Andreas21 (and anyone else)- if money were not a factor and you were watching a native 4k film, would you still pick one of the new JVC's over the VW1100ES? Again, money aside and based on preliminary testing/specs.

I guess what I'm asking is, what would you regard as the best 'consumer'-market projector right at this very moment (today) regardless of price, given there are trade-offs with every projector (whether it's price, lack of 4k support, lack of HDR, etc). Perhaps it's too early to say, but does the vw1100es not reign supreme in *most* categories that are important today?

The VW1100 is still the best projector I have ever seen for 2D and with a native 4K source I would pick it over the current JVCs any day. But for me it was the right time to sell the VW1100 and I got a very good replacement in the X500 for a very good price.


When UHD BD comes out the VW1100 will have one problem, and that is no HDR support so a VW1100 will not be able to show what is on the disk just like the JVC X7000/9000 with their 1080p panels. So witch one is going to be best with UHD BD is difficult to say.
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post #11794 of 14231 Old 09-09-2015, 10:34 PM
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Good points, thanks Andreas
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post #11795 of 14231 Old 09-10-2015, 04:25 AM
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Hello,

2 days ago i was at the IFA.
Sony show only the 520 and JVC only the X 5000, both on a 118" Screen in black Rooms.

After i see the performance of the Sony with HDR i look relaxed in future and have no problem to stay with my 1100 without HDR.
Specially for much bigger screens up to 150/170 " is no doubt.
To compare the X 5000 will be unfair in many ways, starting by the price 4500€ only,Brightness and no chance to calibrate bigger CMS like the X 7000/9000.

P.S. I think not many Customers will spend 9000€ for the new X 9000 this Year, if you can have native 4k with the Sony for 1000€ more.
If you satisfy for another 1-2 Years with 1080p /E shift and your Screen is not bigger than the X 5000 is a great Value for Money
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post #11796 of 14231 Old 09-11-2015, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
When UHD BD comes out the VW1100 will have one problem, and that is no HDR support so a VW1100 will not be able to show what is on the disk just like the JVC X7000/9000 with their 1080p panels. So witch one is going to be best with UHD BD is difficult to say.
There might be more than one problem...but lets see what bulb projectors do with HDR before we compare having many less pixels to missing HDR, shall we?

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post #11797 of 14231 Old 09-14-2015, 07:53 AM
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Speaking of that:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarch...-4k-projector/

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The extent of the native HDR difference isn’t as aggressively pronounced as I’ve seen it looking on some of this year’s LCD televisions, though. If I had to hazard a guess as to why this is so, it would be that the VW520ES’s brightness, while impressive, isn’t ‘out there’ enough to do HDR full justice. It will probably take the likes of new laser projection technology or ultra-expensive, ultra-bright DLP engines of the sort provided by, say, Sim2’s high-end projectors to fully ‘unlock’ HDR.

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post #11798 of 14231 Old 09-14-2015, 08:18 AM
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There is simply no way a consumer HT bulb projector of the irk we are talking about here can show HDR to its full extent. If we assume the Dolby HDR is full HDR, a projector would have to put out a peak white about 8.2 times above the reference white level.
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post #11799 of 14231 Old 09-14-2015, 02:28 PM
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So what does all this mean? way to get the fullest HDR assuming that you define Dolby levels as full HDR (which is the way it was announced today by Sony for its UHD Blurays), you would need to calibrate to the lowest reference white level that your screen and screen gain will give you say 14/ft lamberts. Smaller screen sizes with higher gains will give you the needed head room for peak white. So say your projector can do 1800 lumens calibrated for P3 (and the girls you pick up in the bar each night are all 10s and they buy you drinks), you calibrate for 500 lumens out of your projector which with you HP 2.8 gives you your 14 ft lamberts. Now you have 1300 to space for HDR but you will need over 4000 to spare for full HDR but you would get almost 2 f stops of bright end HDR and that wouldn't be too bad..
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post #11800 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 10:55 AM
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Has anyone else seen uniformity issues on the their VW1000ES's or VW1100ES's? Lately I've noticed a very slight magenta hue on about 1/6th of the extreme right of the image (only really visible with a white background, or very bright scenes). It's slightly on the left too, but it's even more subtle. It's very, very slight, and only caught my eye recently...But now that I know it's there, it's driving me a little nuts. There are certain settings that make it clearer (like turning the iris way down manually). Am I just having analysis paralysis? Is this normal? Only about 30 hours on the bulb.

Last edited by voodoo1694; 09-20-2015 at 10:58 AM.
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post #11801 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
Has anyone else seen uniformity issues on the their VW1000ES's or VW1100ES's? Lately I've noticed a very slight magenta hue on about 1/6th of the extreme right of the image (only really visible with a white background, or very bright scenes). It's slightly on the left too, but it's even more subtle. It's very, very slight, and only caught my eye recently...But now that I know it's there, it's driving me a little nuts. There are certain settings that make it clearer (like turning the iris way down manually). Am I just having analysis paralysis? Is this normal? Only about 30 hours on the bulb.
Have you bypassed whatever chain of components that are in the path and plugged a source directly into the projector?

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post #11802 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by netroamer View Post
Have you bypassed whatever chain of components that are in the path and plugged a source directly into the projector?
I did yes. I also plugged in several different sources directly via HDMI to the projector
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post #11803 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Time for a VW1200 Laser for $30-40k at CEDIA....
That may be just the down payment! I'm betting closer to $60k!

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post #11804 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
Has anyone else seen uniformity issues on the their VW1000ES's or VW1100ES's? Lately I've noticed a very slight magenta hue on about 1/6th of the extreme right of the image (only really visible with a white background, or very bright scenes). It's slightly on the left too, but it's even more subtle. It's very, very slight, and only caught my eye recently...But now that I know it's there, it's driving me a little nuts. There are certain settings that make it clearer (like turning the iris way down manually). Am I just having analysis paralysis? Is this normal? Only about 30 hours on the bulb.
Look at the alignment grid, does it show red out of whack on the right edge? Also what's your contrast set at? With iris off as a test, anything over 95/96 can show slight color shifting (you need a brightness / contrast test pattern to see this)
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post #11805 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
Only about 30 hours on the bulb.
Is this a new bulb or the original with the projector.

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post #11806 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netroamer View Post
Have you bypassed whatever chain of components that are in the path and plugged a source directly into the projector?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Look at the alignment grid, does it show red out of whack on the right edge? Also what's your contrast set at? With iris off as a test, anything over 95/96 can show slight color shifting (you need a brightness / contrast test pattern to see this)
thrang - check your PM's
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post #11807 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 12:51 PM
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Panels were aligned properly, nothing abnormal. This is the iris turned down manually (see pic attached). It's definitely worse than what I'm seeing during normal viewing, but it is basically the issue to a more extreme degree. The bulb was at "0" hours in the menu when I received the unit, I don't know the condition of the bulb as the projector and bulb were purchased used (bulb was included in the sale), but it showed 0 hours when I received it.

EDIT: I've tried different screen materials, zooming, shifting, cleaning the lens, etc but it doesn't seem to change anything. I had a test chart I pulled up with various squares, and it looks like vignetting with a slight hue. The squares on the sides were definitely not as bright white as the squares in the center (with a very, very slight magenta/purple hue), to a noticeable degree using optimal iris/brightness settings.

Last edited by voodoo1694; 04-16-2016 at 12:43 AM.
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post #11808 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
Panels were aligned properly, nothing abnormal. This is the iris turned down manually (see pic attached). It's definitely worse than what I'm seeing during normal viewing, but it is basically the issue to a more extreme degree. The bulb was at "0" hours in the menu when I received the unit, I don't know the condition of the bulb as the projector and bulb were purchased used (bulb was included in the sale), but it showed 0 hours when I received it.

EDIT: I've tried different screen materials, zooming, shifting, cleaning the lens, etc but it doesn't seem to change anything. I had a test chart I pulled up with various squares, and it looks like vignetting with a slight hue. The squares on the sides were definitely not as bright white as the squares in the center (with a very, very slight magenta/purple hue), to a noticeable degree using optimal iris/brightness settings.

I wonder could the lamp have been reset to zero since the projector was second hand?
Did the seller say it was a brand new lamp he installed for the sale?

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post #11809 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 01:53 PM
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It was purchased from a reputable electronics wholesaler who was selling many of these for a song, some broken, some working. Unfortunately the customer service rep had almost zero information about its history. The strange thing is that I didn't notice this issue before, so I don't know if it always existed or just started like this...

Are you thinking it's a bulb issue? The rest of the picture looks fantastic. and bright.

Last edited by voodoo1694; 09-20-2015 at 02:00 PM.
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post #11810 of 14231 Old 09-20-2015, 10:00 PM
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I had shading (uniformity) issues with three VPL-VW500ES units that I had before I decided to switch to a VPL-VW1100ES. With the units mounted upside-down (i.e. ceiling mounted), there was slight yellowing at the bottom and especially at the bottom corners. However, it was not as bad as the purple hue displayed in your image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
Has anyone else seen uniformity issues on the their VW1000ES's or VW1100ES's? Lately I've noticed a very slight magenta hue on about 1/6th of the extreme right of the image (only really visible with a white background, or very bright scenes). It's slightly on the left too, but it's even more subtle. It's very, very slight, and only caught my eye recently...But now that I know it's there, it's driving me a little nuts. There are certain settings that make it clearer (like turning the iris way down manually). Am I just having analysis paralysis? Is this normal? Only about 30 hours on the bulb.
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post #11811 of 14231 Old 09-21-2015, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo1694 View Post
It was purchased from a reputable electronics wholesaler who was selling many of these for a song, some broken, some working. Unfortunately the customer service rep had almost zero information about its history. The strange thing is that I didn't notice this issue before, so I don't know if it always existed or just started like this...

Are you thinking it's a bulb issue? The rest of the picture looks fantastic. and bright.
I suspect the issue was always there and since it is hard to notice viewing regular content, you did not see it at first. I bet that projector was returned due to the uniformity problem. It needs to be returned to seller or sent in for repair.

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post #11812 of 14231 Old 09-21-2015, 09:27 AM
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I suspect the issue was always there and since it is hard to notice viewing regular content, you did not see it at first. I bet that projector was returned due to the uniformity problem. It needs to be returned to seller or sent in for repair.
Thanks Mike, I'm debating whether or not to just live with it. I got it for barely anything, and 90% of the time I don't even notice it... Decisions decisions...
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post #11813 of 14231 Old 09-27-2015, 09:41 PM
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If I were you, I would return it or have it repaired by Sony under warranty. I watch a lot of B&W content and colour non-uniformity would drive me nuts.

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Thanks Mike, I'm debating whether or not to just live with it. I got it for barely anything, and 90% of the time I don't even notice it... Decisions decisions...
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post #11814 of 14231 Old 09-30-2015, 04:11 PM
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If the rumored Sony1200ES comes out, and is anything like the GTZ270, are many of you 1000/1100 owners contemplating an upgrade (assuming the price is 'reasonable', e.g., close to the 1100)? Or are you happy to stand pat with your 1100 and wait for another cycle or two?
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post #11815 of 14231 Old 09-30-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
If the rumored Sony1200ES comes out, and is anything like the GTZ270, are many of you 1000/1100 owners contemplating an upgrade (assuming the price is 'reasonable', e.g., close to the 1100)? Or are you happy to stand pat with your 1100 and wait for another cycle or two?
I think the only thing that would get me to upgrade would be higher native on/off contrast performance along with a boost in brightness and the same ANSI contrast. That's a tall order that Sony would need to fill. The rumors suggest the same lens which is a good sign as this is an amazing lens.
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post #11816 of 14231 Old 09-30-2015, 05:39 PM
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I think the only thing that would get me to upgrade would be higher native on/off contrast performance along with a boost in brightness and the same ANSI contrast. That's a tall order that Sony would need to fill. The rumors suggest the same lens which is a good sign as this is an amazing lens.
Yes, a higher o/f CR would be high on the list of my desirables, and more lumens.
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post #11817 of 14231 Old 09-30-2015, 06:28 PM
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Yes, a higher o/f CR would be high on the list of my desirables, and more lumens.
From a marketing standpoint a laser light source is a wet dream. It offers long life, stable calibration, and a fairly linear drop off in lumen output over time. Plus it just sounds cool. But how much are people willing to spend on such technology? Laser pumped phosphor doesn't really offer any picture quality upgrades over lamp based designs. I suppose you could argue it offers the possibility of less lumen loss for larger color gamuts and seems to be more efficient in terms of heat output per lumen created (though it looks like they are more power hungry going off of Epson's LS10000 power usage). I guess the question people need to ask themselves is; are these benefits worth a hefty price tag? Most are guessing an MSRP quite a bit higher than the 1100ES. These guesses could be wrong, but just look at how much LED units were going for over their similar performing lamp based competition. It was about double the price tag. If the contrast performance is roughly the same, as well as feature set and lumen output I just don't see the value in the laser unless you're a heavy power user putting a ton of hours on the unit every day. As we've seen, some third party sellers are selling genuine bare bulbs at ridiculously low prices so the rumored price difference could definitely buy one a hell of a lot of bulbs. The performance gain going to the 1200ES would most likely need to be high to get a lot of 1100ES owners to upgrade.
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post #11818 of 14231 Old 09-30-2015, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
From a marketing standpoint a laser light source is a wet dream. It offers long life, stable calibration, and a fairly linear drop off in lumen output over time. Plus it just sounds cool. But how much are people willing to spend on such technology? Laser pumped phosphor doesn't really offer any picture quality upgrades over lamp based designs. I suppose you could argue it offers the possibility of less lumen loss for larger color gamuts and seems to be more efficient in terms of heat output per lumen created (though it looks like they are more power hungry going off of Epson's LS10000 power usage). I guess the question people need to ask themselves is; are these benefits worth a hefty price tag? Most are guessing an MSRP quite a bit higher than the 1100ES. These guesses could be wrong, but just look at how much LED units were going for over their similar performing lamp based competition. It was about double the price tag. If the contrast performance is roughly the same, as well as feature set and lumen output I just don't see the value in the laser unless you're a heavy power user putting a ton of hours on the unit every day. As we've seen, some third party sellers are selling genuine bare bulbs at ridiculously low prices so the rumored price difference could definitely buy one a hell of a lot of bulbs. The performance gain going to the 1200ES would most likely need to be high to get a lot of 1100ES owners to upgrade.
Have you looked at the specs of the GTZ270? If a 1200ES were a consumer version of this, it would be considerable more than just a laser light source. But I agree, that I'm not totally convinced; will be interesting to see what comes about.
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post #11819 of 14231 Old 09-30-2015, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
Have you looked at the specs of the GTZ270? If a 1200ES were a consumer version of this, it would be considerable more than just a laser light source. But I agree, that I'm not totally convinced; will be interesting to see what comes about.
Sony has this marketing video out, but nothing super specific has been released as far as I'm aware:


They also have some "preliminary" info listed here:

https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/mkt-in...?prd=VPLGTZ270

Quote:
(Preliminary information) The VPL-GTZ270 is a 4K Laser 5,000lm projector using the latest Sony SXRD™ display technology to create high quality images with 4K resolution and a super-high contrast ratio. The projector also incorporates Sony’s laser phosphor light source technology, “Z-Phosphor,” which delivers numerous customer benefits including lamp-free operation, stable brightness over time, angle free installation, and instant power On/Off. This projector has a compact chassis for simple installation and operation, and runs very quietly. This projector is ideally suited for applications providing an immersive reality experience in Planetariums, Museums and Theme Parks.
Highlights:
(Preliminary information)
• 4K SXRD Laser 5,000lm Projector
• 4,096 x 2,160 native resolution
• Super high contrast ratio
• HDR (High Dynamic Range) Support
• Wide color space mode - DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative) and Simulated BT2020
• Small and light weight - W21.6” x H9.0” x D29.5”, 88.2lb
• Quiet - 35dB or less
• Angle free installation
• Instant power on and off
• Durable and stackable chassis
• 20,000h life laser light source
• Long life and anti-dust sealed optics
• Auto color adjustment by built-in color sensor
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post #11820 of 14231 Old 09-30-2015, 06:46 PM
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Yes, that it what I was referring to; there is a preliminary spec sheet at the end. I agree that this is all very 'preliminary' re what a 1200ES would be. It would esp be interesting to see if o/f CR is increased to something approaching the JVC's.
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