Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 40 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1171 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 12:38 PM
 
Randall Morton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Mid South
Posts: 1,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here are a couple more images to look at with RC on and off. Keep in mind these images have been resized and are only approximately what is seen.




Randall Morton is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1172 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post


Off to play with my new I Rule.


Art

You posting impressions on irule anywhere? What are you using for a controller? sorry or the quick off topic post guys..

If no one wants to do it, I'm willing to kick off the VW1000 Owner's thread. Maybe the mods can shift these posts to that. As well as the other vw1000 thread. Would be nice to have just one thread to discuss this projector!

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

Owner, AudioXtream.
Authorized Dealer for Kef, Triad, Bryston, Auralic, Audeze, Grado, Audioquest, Marantz
adidino is offline  
post #1173 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 12:44 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Re the images with and without RC. The one with the flag. Which one do you prefer?

A noted reviewer says its harsh and artificial. I won't comment which one I like better because I wouldn't want to taint anyone's opinion. Look at the two and simply conclude what you like better. Which one looks better to you? That's all that counts. Be interesting to see which one people think looks better. With or without RC?

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #1174 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 12:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JustMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 19
As a static image, I prefer the one with Reality Creation on. I'm not sure which I would prefer with the movie playing. I do see more grain in the image with it on, and that may be what I was seeing in Super 8.

Mike Kobb
(Formerly "ReplayMike". These opinions are mine alone, and in no way reflect the opinions of employers past or present!)
"Mike's Money Pit" Build Thread
JustMike is offline  
post #1175 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 02:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 29
To my way of thinking, all video is creating an illusion. Interpolation is also a well and highly developed methodology of enhancing images; think of all the enhanced images we have seen from space probes. Technically there may be no more 'information' in the enhanced images than in the original, but I think most persons perceive them as improved; maybe Amirm does not, but that's his problem, not mine.
millerwill is offline  
post #1176 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 02:59 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 22,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 92
If no one wants to do it, I'm willing to kick off the VW1000 Owner's thread. Maybe the mods can shift these posts to that. As well as the other vw1000 thread. Would be nice to have just one thread to discuss this projector![/quote]

Do it!

We can put all the settings And tweaks in it as well.

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
joerod is offline  
post #1177 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 03:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DaveN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: TN
Posts: 1,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I found this pre-production review interesting;
http://www.hdwars.com/hardware/2011/...or-first-look/
DaveN is offline  
post #1178 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 03:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ximori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Irvine, Ca
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Re the images with and without RC. The one with the flag. What do you prefer?

A noted reviewer says its harsh and artificial. I won't comment which one I like better because I wouldn't want to taint anyones opinion. Look at the two and simply conclude what you like better. Which one looks better to you? That's all that counts. Be interesting to see which one people think looks better. With or without RC?

I guess it depends how clean the source is. With BDs tier 0-2, I prefer to keep RC Off, but with BDs tier-3 and above I'll probably keep this On and sit farther. Moreover, I don't think I can stand seeing close-up images with it On.

I can see though how a low ANSI CR projector might benefit with having this feature On, especially in mixed bright scenes, but what do I know...
Ximori is offline  
post #1179 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 03:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
mark haflich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: brookeville, maryland, usa
Posts: 19,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

I found this pre-production review interesting;
http://www.hdwars.com/hardware/2011/...or-first-look/


Man. There is so much confusion. The revewer said the Sony people toggled the 4K scaling off and one. Exactly what does that mean? The machine simply has to scale a 1080p image up to 4HD or 4K on its 4K panels. All pixels in the panel have to be used. In 4HD scaling, the side pixels between 3840 and 4096 are not controlled by the source pixels, the scaler sents them whatever the signal it needs for them to light so to speak black. The remaining pixels are controlled by the pixels in the source or rather the scaler is controlled by the pixels in the source. In 4K scaling all pixels are controlled by the source pixels. If the source pixels are black as in black bars the scaler will maintain the correct geometry for the wide aspect of the display pixels, 17/9. A 1.78 source will be stretched or resized horizontally and vertically by the same amount, in other words it will be resized. The correct geometry will be maintained by active vertical image will be lost for aspects between 1.78 and 1.89. There are simply not enough vertical pixels available.There is no free lunch as to trying to display a 16/9 image on a a 17/9 panel. Ayhow, what does the reviewer by switching off the 4K scaling. The machine has to scale to either 4HD or 4K. It can't be switched off but one can chose and change between the two. RC can however be switched off and on. Maybbe that is what the writer was trying to communicate?

Bill. You should be able to use your lumagen to send the two pixel patterns to the projector and then switch RC of and one for both normal aspect and 2.35 zoom aspect. and tell us what happens. Does RC work on both aspects (Normal and 2.35 zoom)?

Mark Haflich
markhaflich@yahoo.com
call me at: 240 876 2536
mark haflich is offline  
post #1180 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 03:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
d.j.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Maybe what seems to be drowning in the big debate about the RC on versus off ,
is that this projector overtly ( especially according to new, but experienced, owners and other people, who have seen the damn thing live, and here I dont mean a prototype, but the finish product - and yes, Im jealous ) is making a impressive picture ( even if it "cheats" and can do sharpness and contrast enhancement things to the picture ) and that is IMO because off a combination off a lot off things as:

A very good optic

A very good native CR ( especially when we have in mind the light output it makes )

A very good DI ( either you like such a thing or not - you can just turn it off, if you dont like it )

A an impressive amount off light output, even calibrated to D65

A unique - for now - resolution posibility / A lot off very small pixels

A very silent operation, not "normally" related with this kind off light output

A very good 3D with apparent no or very little ghosting and still higher light output then "normal"

A very good motion handling ( either you use the motionflow or not - just turn it of, if you dont and see what the director wanted )

A very precise and close to HD standard presets ( gamma, color gamut, greyscale etc. ), without allmost any adjustment.

A very fleksible placement opportunities, because off a 2.1 zoom and 80/35% shift options

Has it weaknesses and/or miss something ? yes it has and do ( like CMS and 3D4K at 50/60P - for now ) but every projectors has that - even the great SIM´s

Is there other very great projector´s out there ? offcause there are, but very few or none, who is at same price level or cheaper

Dos that makes it a "best buy or just a very good buy" ( if you can afford it and it fits your needs )......in my book - YES - but that dosnt mean, that other projectors cant be that too ( but they probely will cost you about the same or even more likely, more money for now )

Just my 2 cent

dj

BTW
The RC chip and performance is probely a lot like the one ( just with 1080P ) who is implanted in their TV model KDL-65HX923 ( Eu model - US model HX929 !?), it even has the same sliders, I think !
d.j. is offline  
post #1181 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 03:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ximori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Irvine, Ca
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Exactly how we feel here. Last night we had a few couples over watching a movie and they had been here before. Right away I heard comments like, "Doesn't matter who sits up front now! Look at the picture. It's awesome all over the room." That is the 1000 in a nutshell. I always sit in my "seat" in the back but now I may be moving up front for a change.

What screen sizes do you guys use for viewing? It's easy to get enamored by 4K with our current screens (or maybe screens that are under 14 ft. wide). There's no question what it provides in terms of dimensionality and detail clarity on a smaller screen. It's definitely there in my top list so I can finally be grabbed with that cinematic feel; however, once I achieve that with a very large screen, it no longer becomes the common denominator as I tend to revert to other main attributes, such as lumens, contrasts, colors, etc...at least, for me.

Same as you, I actually prefer to sit further back...sitting closer would be nice, as long as I can avoid seeing any hint of screen texture. But that's the beauty of 4K - so we can enlarge our screens to almost cover the entire wall.
Ximori is offline  
post #1182 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 05:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 17,999
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Liked: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

To my way of thinking, all video is creating an illusion. Interpolation is also a well and highly developed methodology of enhancing images; think of all the enhanced images we have seen from space probes. Technically there may be no more 'information' in the enhanced images than in the original, but I think most persons perceive them as improved; maybe Amirm does not, but that's his problem, not mine.

I don't understand why you mention me here. I clearly stipulated that in digital still imaging such as used in your NASA example we use all of these tools. The difference there is that we have a static image and we can sharpen it enough while keeping an eye on artifacts.

The same tactics don't work with video as well because the image is constantly changing even in the same movie. One frame is during the day and has no grain and another at night with objectionable grain. If I had a still image of the latter, I would not dare sharpening it.

Further, our still image tools are much more sophisticated because they are in software and hence have no "cost." I mentioned how we can for example just apply sharpness to luminance and with it, avoid color shift. This also helps a lot with noise as fair bit of that is in color domain so it doesn't get exaggerated.

We are blessed with a format that has compliance written into it from start. We know what the color should be. We know what the levels should be. We know what resolution should be. Things like display calibration and push to have the right controls in the display came out of this motivation. If we just wanted to have an illusion that didn't match what is on disc, then we were already there. Every professional strives for correctness in video. But somehow as consumers we should not care?

I don't mind folks saying they like something different. I went to my brother's house and took his TV out of Vivid mode and calibrated it. He loved the image. I go to his house the next week and he is back to Vivid mode. I asked what happened? He said everyone in the family liked that overly bright and contrasty image better. So I get where you are coming from in wanting an illusion. For his need, that is what it should be.

What I don't get is why we are afraid of talking about what the reality is. On every post I make, I see a number of people stressed out starting with Mark. I have to keep pinching myself that I am typing this on AVS Forum where I thought we were anal for the video truth. Someone changed the place and didn't send me the memo I guess .

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

amirm is offline  
post #1183 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 05:41 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I don't understand why you mention me here.

I suppose it was because you seem to have harped so much on there being no more 'information' in the 4K upconverted pic than in the original 1080p input. I fully accept that as technically true, but can also fully believe that intelligent vp'ing can improve the perceived image.

I should also note that my comments are from one whose expertise lies in a different area from video; they are simply those that seem reasonable to me.
millerwill is offline  
post #1184 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 06:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 17,999
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Liked: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I suppose it was because you seem to have harped so much on there being no more 'information' in the 4K upconverted pic than in the original 1080p input.

Why is it "harping" to explain how the technology works? Would you say Sony is harping when they say this in their white paper on 4K projectors?

"Next, every Sony 4K projector can use Intelligent Smoothing, a Sony circuit that scales an incoming HD or 2K picture up to the resolution of the 4K screen. In the process, Intelligent Smoothing interpolates new display pixels "in between" the source pixels. In HD-to-4K upscaling, the projector circuitry creates three new pixel values for each pixel in the source signal. These new pixel values do not represent additional picture information. (That can only come from the source.) But the interpolated pixels do enable a more seamless display, for a visible reduction in stairstep jaggies. "

Quote:


I fully accept that as technically true, but can also fully believe that intelligent vp'ing can improve the perceived image.

I get this desire for video alchemy . I really do. I wish as a video engineer I could snap my finger and give it to you. But I can't. We simply can't produce such a circuit and not have it backfire on us on some content. Folks have complained about unnatural film noise. They have complained about DirecTV not looking good. They have complained about pink shift as they move the sliders. When I hear these things, the signal processing person in me cringes because these are the artifacts of changing the frequency response of the video.

Quote:


I should also note that my comments are from one whose expertise lies in a different area from video; they are simply those that seem reasonable to me.

I am sure I would have reasonable ideas about your area of expertise which would be flat wrong. In that case, if you explained to me, should I say stop harping on it because it makes sense to me otherwise?

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

amirm is offline  
post #1185 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 06:18 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 22,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Half of this is my fault. I am as Mark once said an Eye Candy Extremist! At least for sports the rules go out the window here. Now for movies I lately have been taking a more calibrated, serious approach. Except when it comes to 3D. That's all over the map!

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
joerod is offline  
post #1186 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 07:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Why is it "harping" to explain how the technology works? Would you say Sony is harping when they say this in their white paper on 4K projectors?

"Next, every Sony 4K projector can use Intelligent Smoothing, a Sony circuit that scales an incoming HD or 2K picture up to the resolution of the 4K screen. In the process, Intelligent Smoothing interpolates new display pixels "in between" the source pixels. In HD-to-4K upscaling, the projector circuitry creates three new pixel values for each pixel in the source signal. These new pixel values do not represent additional picture information. (That can only come from the source.) But the interpolated pixels do enable a more seamless display, for a visible reduction in stairstep jaggies. "


I get this desire for video alchemy . I really do. I wish as a video engineer I could snap my finger and give it to you. But I can't. We simply can't produce such a circuit and not have it backfire on us on some content. Folks have complained about unnatural film noise. They have complained about DirecTV not looking good. They have complained about pink shift as they move the sliders. When I hear these things, the signal processing person in me cringes because these are the artifacts of changing the frequency response of the video.


I am sure I would have reasonable ideas about your area of expertise which would be flat wrong. In that case, if you explained to me, should I say stop harping on it because it makes sense to me otherwise?

Me thinks you protest too much.

Art

My HT


iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #1187 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 07:33 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

You posting impressions on irule anywhere? What are you using for a controller? sorry or the quick off topic post guys..

Not much yet. The best part so far for me ,in limited use, is the feedback from the devices in the rack. I can see volume dB on the IPhone and, of course, the fact that there is no more pointing. The device isn't completed at this point I'm just trying out what has been set up looking for ways to improve the use for me personally.


Art

My HT


iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #1188 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 08:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 17,999
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Liked: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Me thinks you protest too much.

Art

Oh, I didn't think thinking was allowed in these Sony threads.

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

amirm is offline  
post #1189 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 08:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Steve Goff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Olympia, WA, USA
Posts: 1,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Oh, I didn't think thinking was allowed in these Sony threads.

Again, if verisimilitude to the video copy of a film created for storage or transmission by current commercial means is the goal, then you have a point. If verisimilitude to the original film is the goal, not so much.

Steve Goff
Steve Goff is offline  
post #1190 of 10327 Old 02-18-2012, 09:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 17,999
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 685 Post(s)
Liked: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Again, if verisimilitude to the video copy of a film created for storage or transmission by current commercial means is the goal, then you have a point. If verisimilitude to the original film is the goal, not so much.

Seems like we are back to video alchemy argument again . Let's put your theory to test. Here is a close up of the two images Randall post. On top you see the two zooms as he had taken with my indicators overlaid on them. I have only cropped them and nothing else. On the bottom are the same two images except that I have adjusted the image as to make it easier to see the artifacts (same adjustment is made to both images):



So what do we see?

1. There is no extra detail. The Reality Creation version is a bit brighter due to contrast enhancement but no more detail exist. If the original film had more resolution, we have not restored it.

2. There is a noticeable loss of color. The pink hue on the building behind the figure has been subdued due to accuracy errors in their filter or contrast enhancement. Doubt that we have gotten closer to the original film by introducing this.

3. We have the dreaded halos (ie. "Edge Enhancement") distortions now wherever there is a sharp transition. This is much easier to see in the darkened version. Confident that was not in the film.

4. Compression artifacts are exaggerated. Look at the blocking artifacts around the circle now.

You were saying?

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

amirm is offline  
post #1191 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 02:40 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 22,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 92
It's obvious though the majority of new owners like RC on. It reminds me of when Sony released the VW200 with Motionflow and film projection. Sorta. I only (as well as many others) only liked it for sports. At the time it was the only game in town (for Sony projectors at least). Just like now the RC in their projector line has been non existent. Now here it is! I expect it to trickle into most of their future models. Anyway, not using RC is like dating Megan Fox and never... It's addictive once you do experience it and you want it all the time. Talking about RC not MF. Even at minimal settings its enhancement is still noticeable. And if you aren't going to use it you should stick to the 95ES. And or the girl you met at the bar... Not that there's anything wrong with either.

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
joerod is offline  
post #1192 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 02:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JonStatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMike View Post

As a static image, I prefer the one with Reality Creation on. I'm not sure which I would prefer with the movie playing. I do see more grain in the image with it on, and that may be what I was seeing in Super 8.

By the way Super 8 is a really bad movie to evaluate with. It has a wobbly black floor that you can see pulsating on dark scenes all the way through the film.
JonStatt is online now  
post #1193 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 03:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Owen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
We can get a similar or better result than "Reality Creation" with any projector by processing the video signal externally via a PC or other video processing device. Been doing that for almost 10 years and it definitely can be done without visible negative side effects.
Owen is online now  
post #1194 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 03:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

And if you aren't going to use it you should stick to the 95ES. And or the girl you met at the bar... Not that there's anything wrong with either.

I wouldn't go that far There's much more than RC that makes this projector desirable over the 95.

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

Owner, AudioXtream.
Authorized Dealer for Kef, Triad, Bryston, Auralic, Audeze, Grado, Audioquest, Marantz
adidino is offline  
post #1195 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Lawguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

So what do we see?

1. There is no extra detail. The Reality Creation version is a bit brighter due to contrast enhancement but no more detail exist. If the original film had more resolution, we have not restored it.

2. There is a noticeable loss of color. The pink hue on the building behind the figure has been subdued due to accuracy errors in their filter or contrast enhancement. Doubt that we have gotten closer to the original film by introducing this.

3. We have the dreaded halos (ie. "Edge Enhancement") distortions now wherever there is a sharp transition. This is much easier to see in the darkened version. Confident that was not in the film.

4. Compression artifacts are exaggerated. Look at the blocking artifacts around the circle now.

You were saying?

Isn't it really about tradeoffs?

Two of the issues that you identify can only be detected in comparison to a reference (contrast enhancement and color loss). The other two (edge enhancement and compression artifacts) were made apparent by you in making the image darker.

On balance, someone can think that the pic with RC on is an improvement over it with RC off. I don't have a problem with that at all. These seem like subtle tweaks, not extreme changes. If it gets out of hand, just turn it off.

I think that I would not use this feature for the reasons that you mention but I have a no problem if someone like it.

The video standards ultimately should be followed by people in the chain of production. They do what they and make sure that the product is as it should be. But when the product is sold to the consumer, all bets are off. Those engineers are in no position to say how someone should enjoy that movie in someone's home.

Affable Nitwit
Lawguy is offline  
post #1196 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 05:38 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Oh, I didn't think thinking was allowed in these Sony threads.

As you know it's futile to try to disprove a religious belief with science. I personally was astounded with the appearance of the image from a detail perspective but it lacked other things which made a change from the 3 chip DLP unacceptable for me.

Art

My HT


iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #1197 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 05:59 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 22,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I wouldn't go that far There's much more than RC that makes this projector desirable over the 95.

True. I was just being overly dramatic like the RC setting!

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
joerod is offline  
post #1198 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 06:04 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 22,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

We can get a similar or better result than "Reality Creation" with any projector by processing the video signal externally via a PC or other video processing device. Been doing that for almost 10 years and it definitely can be done without visible negative side effects.

Like fine detail and edge enhancement? Still I have to give it to Sony for adding this terrific VP in their projector. It's the first time I truly don't need any external processing. Sure the extra features like test Patterns are appreciated but as far as the image goes it doesn't get much better than this!

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
joerod is offline  
post #1199 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 06:09 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 22,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 92
So last night we had a couple over (someone interested in buying their own 1000) and I flipped the RC back and forth several times and he and his wife were adamant about leaving it on. Especially his wife! Needless to say he is getting one for sure since he has that coveted WAF.

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1402680301175
joerod is offline  
post #1200 of 10327 Old 02-19-2012, 06:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

So last night we had a couple over (someone interested in buying their own 1000) and I flipped the RC back and forth several times and he and his wife were adamant about leaving it on. Especially his wife! Needless to say he is getting one for sure since he has that coveted WAF.

Joe - What setting do you keep it on? Lowest or Sony's suggested 20/20 or 50/50

McIntosh MX151 Owner's Thread

Owner, AudioXtream.
Authorized Dealer for Kef, Triad, Bryston, Auralic, Audeze, Grado, Audioquest, Marantz
adidino is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector , Casio Rs 232 Adapter Catalog Category Projectors Accessories
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off