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Old 10-20-2015, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
When Sony started talking about the upgrade kit, people were calling me nearly every day asking when is Sony going to start offering the upgrade and why was it taking so long. Most the posters sounded like they were ready to lynch Sony if they could. I remember the posts and they are still there for anyone to look at. At that time there were no 18gbps chips. Now you guys are complaining that Sony should have waited a couple more years to offer the upgrade. Sounds like a no win situation for Sony. Not happy if upgrade is offered. Not happy because upgrade was offered too soon. If the upgrade was offered today, many would be unhappy in a year or two from now, because their projector can't do 2020 or HDR very well and once again say Sony should have waited. I still ask the same question that not one single person has answered. Name me one single under 30K projector that has stayed on the bleeding edge for as long as the VW1000?
Revisionist history. Some did, not all. I sure didn't. Let's not forget this was an upgrade we had to get in a certain timeframe, and we kept hearing about how the techs were getting laid off and we had to hurry. This was Sony pushing the deadline, not us.

Without going back and checking, it may have been more of we had to go ahead and order, and then people want to get what they paid for, if they were bugging you.
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UMR on HDR vs 4K: The benefit of greater saturation and luminance capability is...not very evident in all images unlike more pixels which can be seen in every scene.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:18 AM
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Moral of the story is that most would still be fine with paying a few thousand dollars to upgrade this unit for FULL UHD blu-ray spec support (minus REC2020 gamut coverage. I think most are more than happy with P3 support). That would mean full 18Gbps inputs, HDMI 2.0a with support for HDR. That's all we're after. Obviously a few extras like a CMS and gamma calibration would be nice. Considering the term "future proof" has been used several times by people from Sony, I don't think this is asking for too much. Obviously we don't expect an update for anything more than this (or atleast I don't think anyone is). Most of us would consider these upgrades to future proof this unit and would be the end of the story for this projector.

I'll say this... Sony will lose customers down the line if they don't offer us something. You can't go into a product costing this much, making statements that they'll update the unit to be future proof (which is what was said in that video by Sony's marketing manager) which people heard about and went into buying this projector expecting to receive and then not deliver. Mike you make the point that other expensive units don't offer an upgrade path to keep those units "up to date" but they also didn't insinuate or lure customers in by promising that they'd be taken care of when the dust settled on a new format/interconnect standard. That's what Sony did when they debuted this unit. You can make the point that she only said HDMI, but let's face it...this new HDMI standard was only created BECAUSE of the UHD format. Support for both go hand in hand in terms of updating the 1100ES. The term "future proof" was also stated and I don't think it can be said this unit is future proofed without support for both things.

Personally speaking, I'm okay with the data throughput on the 1100ES upgrade. It's the lack of HDR that upsets me.
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Old 10-20-2015, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by KRGM1 View Post
I never called trying to hurry the upgrade. I remember complaints from some wanting to wait until the 18gbps chips were available. Sony should have waited until the chips were available.
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Originally Posted by turls View Post
Revisionist history. Some did, not all. I sure didn't. Let's not forget this was an upgrade we had to get in a certain timeframe, and we kept hearing about how the techs were getting laid off and we had to hurry. This was Sony pushing the deadline, not us. Without going back and checking, it may have been more of we had to go ahead and order, and then people want to get what they paid for, if they were bugging you.
EXACTLY!!!!

I purchased the 1000ES projector based on Sony's "future proof" promise. I purchased the upgrade kit because I "had to". I didn't want the puck or tablet and expressed that many times, but it was a package deal and I was told to be happy, especially since the EU didn't get it and paid more. AFAIK, I needed to upgrade because it was a limited time frame opportunity and this was the upgrade that would fulfill the "future proof" promise. That was a LIE. I don't care how you slice it, that's what it was. Sony could have waited 6 months. Instead, they pushed these kits out at the same time as the 1100ES to make their annual cycle. They should have waited on the kits and the 1100ES. Now they have 1100ES and upgraded 1000ES customers with no support for HDR. What they do have are 1000ES customers like me that were sold a turd. $2500 for HDCP 2.2, a useless X1 puck and tablet. Thanks for the extra lamp.

I wish Mike G. would stop being an AVS salesman, aka Sony front-man, for a moment and explain how this upgrade kit was actually UHD BD "future proof"? It's not and you know it.
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Old 10-20-2015, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post
They dangled those superficial 4K lollypops in front of you and you subsequently succumbed to each and everyone of them.
You should have waited.
In the UK the upgrade was much more expensive than the US (and with far fewer goodies thrown in too).
But had I been a US 1000es owner in 2013 I still would not have bitten the bullet.


It's all in the marketing.
Sony knew they had you addicted.
But you ultimately decide when to take the next dose
I'm not taking your troll bait (and this will be my only response), but what would we have "waited" for? If we didn't get the upgrade we wouldn't have 4k60 or HDCP 2.2. There was nothing to "wait" for. There was a time limit on the upgrade and there was no way to know if it was the "last" upgrade or not. At least it will hopefully do an OK job on 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray, but if "OK" is all Sony was after that's sad. The alternative was to be locked out of all next-gen content because of Hollywood's silly obsession with copy protection (which has supposedly already been broken before next-gen Blu-ray is even out!).
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:05 PM
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I'm not taking your troll bait (and this will be my only response), but what would we have "waited" for? If we didn't get the upgrade we wouldn't have 4k60 or HDCP 2.2. There was nothing to "wait" for. There was a time limit on the upgrade and there was no way to know if it was the "last" upgrade or not. At least it will hopefully do an OK job on 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray, but if "OK" is all Sony was after that's sad. The alternative was to be locked out of all next-gen content because of Hollywood's silly obsession with copy protection (which has supposedly already been broken before next-gen Blu-ray is even out!).
There is no troll bait ....... just some hard realities.


You can choose to reply at your discretion.
Hypothetically, if there had been no time limit(as is the case here in the UK) would you have still tried to purchase that upgrade as quickly as you did?
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Old 10-20-2015, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
EXACTLY!!!!

I purchased the 1000ES projector based on Sony's "future proof" promise. I purchased the upgrade kit because I "had to". I didn't want the puck or tablet and expressed that many times, but it was a package deal and I was told to be happy, especially since the EU didn't get it and paid more. AFAIK, I needed to upgrade because it was a limited time frame opportunity and this was the upgrade that would fulfill the "future proof" promise. That was a LIE. I don't care how you slice it, that's what it was. Sony could have waited 6 months. Instead, they pushed these kits out at the same time as the 1100ES to make their annual cycle. They should have waited on the kits and the 1100ES. Now they have 1100ES and upgraded 1000ES customers with no support for HDR. What they do have are 1000ES customers like me that were sold a turd. $2500 for HDCP 2.2, a useless X1 puck and tablet. Thanks for the extra lamp.

I wish Mike G. would stop being an AVS salesman, aka Sony front-man, for a moment and explain how this upgrade kit was actually UHD BD "future proof"? It's not and you know it.
Tak Nakane is the man to consult.


He was the project/marketing manager for the 1000/1100es:
"I can definitely say that when the 4K format is standardised, our projector will definitely show 4K native content. So you'll see the real difference in the future."
http://www.insideci.co.uk/articles/i...-ultra-hd.aspx


W.Mayer maybe able to help as Tak visited his home theatre back in 2012 whilst Mayer was experimenting with the then new 1000es.:





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Old 10-20-2015, 03:24 PM
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You question excludes the implication from Sony the logic board was all that was needed, which ended up not being true, as did the implication that their 4K service was going to be good resource for content.

If one knew it was not supporting the full spec, and one the service turned out to be, I think most would not have upgraded and pressed Sony for the correct solution, and one unbundled from the flotsam.

Beyond that retrospective consideration, if there was no time frame to upgrade, I would have been no rush to upgrade...

That's fair enough.


Hey I am one step behind you as I sit on a 1st generation un-upgraded 1000es.
Some clarification from Sony would be welcome regarding the long term future of the 1000/1100:


Elizabeth Pierce, Senior PR Manager, Sony Professional
Tel: +44 (0) 1256 483481, email: elizabeth.pierce@eu.sony.com
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Old 10-20-2015, 07:14 PM
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Is Sony expressing some concern to you that this is the sentiment being raised in this forum by some owners?



My friend, and I mean that, your comment is not appropriate.


That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see another upgrade kit priced at about $10K with units having to be sent back to Sony. Time frame? Two years from now.
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Old 10-20-2015, 07:18 PM
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There is no troll bait ....... just some hard realities.


You can choose to reply at your discretion.
Hypothetically, if there had been no time limit(as is the case here in the UK) would you have still tried to purchase that upgrade as quickly as you did?

My answer would be yes.
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:11 PM
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The responses hear are mostly partisan. I agree with Mike completely. Sony has no obligation to do anything more with respect to providing 1100ES owners with further upgrades. That said, if the 1100ES is replaced with a say 1200Es, it would be nice if Sony were to provide an upgrade at the cost difference between the models which I would expect to be about $10K.
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
The responses hear are mostly partisan. I agree with Mike completely. Sony has no obligation to do anything more with respect to providing 1100ES owners with further upgrades. That said, if the 1100ES is replaced with a say 1200Es, it would be nice if Sony were to provide an upgrade at the cost difference between the models which I would expect to be about $10K.
Well, if it's another $10K on top of the $2.5K already spent, I'll sell it and go back to being a JVC fan-boy. Sony, that's no baloney.

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Old 10-20-2015, 09:00 PM
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Well, if it's another $10K on top of the $2.5K already spent, I'll sell it and go back to being a JVC fan-boy. Sony, that's no baloney.
I just JVC would get their act together with 4K, I really want to return back since they have the lumens sorted!
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:10 PM
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Hypothetically, if there had been no time limit(as is the case here in the UK) would you have still tried to purchase that upgrade as quickly as you did?
I can't speak for Turls or anyone else, but my answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT! I said as much in my previous post that I felt I "had to" upgrade at the time. In hindsight, there was absolutely no reason to upgrade given how long it's been since the upgrade and real UHD BD content is still not here yet. Sadly, hindsight is 20-20. There was absolutely no need to rush and buy this upgrade. Other than HDMI 2.2 over ONE input and a lamp, what did we get for our money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post
My answer would be yes.
I have no idea why my good friend Mark thinks the upgrade was worth it. What ROI have you gotten for your money Mark? Oh, that's right, the upgrade took your 1000ES to an 1100ES. So what, they're as short-changed as we are concerning a UHD "future proof" projector. You seriously wouldn't have wanted to wait another 6 months to get full 18GB HDMI and HDR support for your money?

I'd be willing to send them back the entire kit (board, lamp, Z1, tablet) at this point for just a new 18GB board installed. I'd pay shipping both ways. Heck, I'd even give them back the $300 in SEN credit.

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Old 10-20-2015, 09:15 PM
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I would really be surprised if the 1200es would have an msrp of $38,000.

My guess that 1100 owners (in light of upgrade #1) would pay in the $3000 to $6000 range. The lower end of the $ scale for HDR and 2.0a 18 gbps, while bigger $ could be justified if processing improvements were made, i.e. motion flow (low setting) could be active with 4K native material, etc...
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:49 PM
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Is anyone using their 1100 with a Lumagen?

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Old 10-20-2015, 10:32 PM
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The 1100 looks to be an increasingly expensive projector (on a relative basis), so it's difficult to imagine an expensive upgrade being worthwhile. The latest JVC is almost as bright, at about 1/3 the cost. In a year or 2, if it adds 4K and a little more brightness, the Sony will be a tough sell at $28K. Even the step down Sony model is a good performer right now.

The 1000/1100 was previously a lot better, and a lot more expensive. Now, it's a little bit better, but still a lot more expensive.

I say this a true fan of the PJ. I've owned a 1000, then an 1100, and I'm close to buying a third. This despite a frustrating repair experience with Sony. If there is another PJ out there that can match it's particular feature set in it's price range- I would like to know what it is!
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DigsMovies View Post
The 1100 looks to be an increasingly expensive projector (on a relative basis), so it's difficult to imagine an expensive upgrade being worthwhile. The latest JVC is almost as bright, at about 1/3 the cost. In a year or 2, if it adds 4K and a little more brightness, the Sony will be a tough sell at $28K. Even the step down Sony model is a good performer right now.

The 1000/1100 was previously a lot better, and a lot more expensive. Now, it's a little bit better, but still a lot more expensive.

I say this a true fan of the PJ. I've owned a 1000, then an 1100, and I'm close to buying a third. This despite a frustrating repair experience with Sony. If there is another PJ out there that can match it's particular feature set in it's price range- I would like to know what it is!

I think the new JVCs are brighter than the 1000/1100 are they not?

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Old 10-20-2015, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
I would really be surprised if the 1200es would have an msrp of $38,000.

My guess that 1100 owners (in light of upgrade #1) would pay in the $3000 to $6000 range. The lower end of the $ scale for HDR and 2.0a 18 gbps, while bigger $ could be justified if processing improvements were made, i.e. motion flow (low setting) could be active with 4K native material, etc...
Agreed. I also think 3-6k would a sweet spot for everyone involved.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:23 AM
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No, but the 600 is close at 1900 lumens

You are talking specs, what is actually measured can be different.

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Old 10-21-2015, 05:30 AM
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So is now not the best time to post if anyone is seriously interested in my less than 200 hour true 1100 to send me a PM?

Oh and I even have an extra lamp.


My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1462841668379

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Old 10-21-2015, 06:36 AM
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Of course...I had this conversation with a fellow AVS'er yesterday on spec vs reality...for some reason do you anticipate calibrated output to be brighter on the rs600 vs the 1100, for 709 or P3?

Your comments as a past 1000 owner vs the new high end JVC you're getting will be interesting..looking forward
I anticipate it to be equal or maybe a bit brighter than my VW1000/1100. Looking forward to check out the X7000 if I get the chance, and I will 99% sure buy the 7000 when it is released.

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Old 10-21-2015, 06:39 AM
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Is anyone using their 1100 with a Lumagen?
Yes, but I'm under NDA at the moment.

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Old 10-21-2015, 06:54 AM
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Especially interested in the DCI/P3 color space light output comparison, which apparently takes a hit with the filter on the 1100 (or will P3 enocded material be mastered as a higher brightness level to compensate for display related filtering, sort of like how better 3D titles seem to be mastered at a higher brightness level to compensate for the glasses?)
I will measure brightness with the filter in the lightpath.

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Old 10-21-2015, 07:00 AM
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Is anyone using their 1100 with a Lumagen?
I have a Chicago-area installation with a Radiance Pro on a 1100 stack. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

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Old 10-21-2015, 09:02 AM
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I anticipate it to be equal or maybe a bit brighter than my VW1000/1100. Looking forward to check out the X7000 if I get the chance, and I will 99% sure buy the 7000 when it is released.
Dude you should have held onto the 1100.


You are far better off spending roughly the same amount of money on the 65inch OLED ......than the new JVC7000.
Sure you will lose immersion but you will gain in pretty much every other area.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:07 AM
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Dude you should have held onto the 1100.


You are far better off spending roughly the same amount of money on the 65inch OLED ......than the new JVC7000.
Sure you will lose immersion but you will gain in pretty much every other area.
The new JVC X7000 I am sure will be a better projector than the VW1100 in almost all aspects, I do not regret selling my 1100. Actually I dont miss my 1100 at all and I have lived without it since february of this year, and like my X500.

I have a 65" TV and even if it was an OLED it will never replace a 133" 2.35:1 screen even if I could only afford a cheap Optoma DLP...

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Old 10-21-2015, 12:16 PM
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Your comments as a past 1000 owner vs the new high end JVC you're getting will be interesting..looking forward

Looks like I too will have a 7000 here for testing in the next week, would love to love it!

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Old 10-21-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post
Dude you should have held onto the 1100.


You are far better off spending roughly the same amount of money on the 65inch OLED ......than the new JVC7000.
Sure you will lose immersion but you will gain in pretty much every other area.
The immersion factor is pretty much the reason these projector forums even exist in the first place.
If it weren't so important, we'd be having this discussion in the flat panel TV forums.
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post
So is now not the best time to post if anyone is seriously interested in my less than 200 hour true 1100 to send me a PM?

Oh and I even have an extra lamp.

So Joe, what are you replacing your 1100 with?
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post
So Joe, what are you replacing your 1100 with?
Eventually a 5000 but I plan to Review a couple of the newer models as well.


My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1462841668379
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