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post #12241 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
How can I possibly prove that unless I took a measurement when it was brand new. Replace the bulb and measure it again now. What did you end up replacing the Sony with?
Even without measuring it when it was new you can still measure it now and base these results off of what many professional reviewers got from their units. I would say if you're getting less than 10000:1 native then there's been some contrast loss.

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post #12242 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I will say this... in Andreas's defense, I had a refurbished Sony VPL-VW90ES here last year that had worse contrast performance than a relatively cheap DLP projector (Sharp XV-Z30000). If I had to eye ball it, native contrast was probably around 1000:1 and dynamic contrast around 4000:1. I was shocked and dumbfounded thinking clearly I had set the unit up wrong. Luckily Mike over at AVScience let me return it without question. I think he said something along the lines of "I trust your eyes, you've seen enough projectors to know if something is wrong" when I spoke with him on the phone. A few months later I ran across a post in the VW95ES thread where Ekki from cine4home talked about measuring several of those units over the course of a year and seeing dramatic drops in contrast performance. I believe he mentioned the units that were used the least had the most loss in contrast. So there seems to be some sort of correlation there.

What I propose is that all of us, within the next week or so, try and measure contrast. There are several very accurate and cheap lux meters available on Amazon if you don't own one. My unit is basically brand new as it has a new light engine installed so I can't really be used in the results. Let's put our money where our mouths are.
Thanks Dylan.

Yours can be used as the reference point for new on/off. This is nothing I am doing for fun or trying to cause Sony problems, I only warn owners in here about a very important problem and I have no agenda.

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post #12243 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
Call it what you like, but have you taken measurements of you projector these 4 years. When people say they haven´t noticed any deterioration in SXRD projector in 4 years that is clear and utter BS! (I´m sorry)

There is no agenda or ulterior motive, what would I gain with that. The only thing I gain is negativity from Sony and many in here and I am actually very surprised, you should embrace this info and measure your own projectors and report to Sony if it has dropped. But instead you kill the messenger and that is very surprising to me as I thought this would be taken in a whole other way than me having to defend this from multiple sides.
So if people say the have not experienced any noticeable loss in quality with their unit, that's BS?

What a wonderful closed loop scenario you've set up...

If you limit your opinion to yours, and let others either concur or oppose, that would be one thing. But you are making an ad hoc claim of "many" instances of "severe" degradation, as fact, which seems very suspect to put it kindly. And to those who don't see it, they are living in denial?

Don't you get you are coming across inflammatory, condescending, and somewhat arrogant?

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post #12244 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
How can I possibly prove that unless I took a measurement when it was brand new. Replace the bulb and measure it again now. What did you end up replacing the Sony with?
You should get at least 10000:1 in the worst case scenario with no on/off loss. Mine measured 3000:1 after 1000 hours and 3 years of use.

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post #12245 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
So if people say the have not experienced any noticeable loss in quality with their unit, that's BS?

What a wonderful closed loop scenario you've set up...

If you limit your opinion to yours, and let others either concur or oppose, that would be one thing. But you are making an ad hoc claim of "many" instances of "severe" degradation, as fact, which seems very suspect to put it kindly. And to those who don't see it, they are living in denial?

Don't you get you are coming across inflammatory, condescending, and somewhat arrogant?
If you have some technical understanding you should know it is not possible to have a SXRD projector for 4 years and normal use not to see any changes, even if the panels did not change there is many other things that change in a SXRD or any other projector for that matter. But that is a different story. And since all these different changes happens over time it will be difficult to see so I understand people think I am crazy.

Yes, I am arrogant and only causing a bad environment in here for trying to make you people opening your eyes and take measurements and report to Sony if you measure low on/off on your Sony 4K´s.

And I also say it can be difficult to see as this happens over time and you need to take measurements to check. But it seems to me you only think I am trying to cause problems to Sony 4K owners and I am very surprised by the resistance I meet after reporting this. I have detailed reports, but since they have been sent to Sony I will not publish it in here, you will have to take my word and I have already drawn the conclusion you will not.

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Last edited by Andreas21; 11-15-2015 at 03:06 PM.
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post #12246 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 03:13 PM
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I am actually finished with this now as I am tired of you guys attacking me when you actually should start taking measurements of you projectors and report to Sony.

Think what you want and do what you want as ignorance is bliss.

I have said it before and do it again, I am now finished with this and stop attacking me with BS posts.

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post #12247 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 03:14 PM
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double post.

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post #12248 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
There are plenty of 1000ES/1100ES owners that do their own calibrations and take measurements and I find it odd that none of them have publicly posted that they're having an issue, which leads me to believe that this issue, if real, is not as wide spread as that calibrator is leading on about.
Uh, yes I have publicly stated here that I have measurable changes in my unit due to deterioration of the organic elements in my SXRD chip. But it isn't as bad as the ones from a few years back.

Somehow recent posters in this thread pretend I never posted this? This thread is over 12000 posts in, be careful with absolutes with Sony 1X00ES owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
I agree. I had a discussion with an experienced owner of 1100es and he said that it was as good as new, after a year of use. If there were any issues, I would also assume that they were limited to a few sets - possibly the very early batch. The person I had the conversation with, had owned his unit, for a year. Hence, early enough batch.
No, I'm on my 3rd unit, at this point it wouldn't have been an early unit. It had to be at least 6-9 months after the first batch.

Matt

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post #12249 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I am actually finished with this now as I am tired of you guys attacking me when you actually should start taking measurements of you projectors and report to Sony.

Think what you want and do what you want as ignorance is bliss.
Its true (although I'm not sure if we are talking about exactly the same issue since I'm not sure what calibrator you are talking about). Not sure why with Sony's history with this problem and the way these chips are made that it would be that impossible to believe it is still an issue.

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post #12250 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 06:05 PM
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I just measured my unit. This light engine (SXRD panels, optical block, ect) literally has 4 hours on it. The lamp has 176 hours of use, but I doubt this will alter the contrast measurements. High lamp mode was used and I used the internal test patterns found within the service menu of the projector to take peak white and black level readings. The iris was set to off (fully open, no dynamic iris). I measured with my Minolta CL-200 recently calibrated by Tom Huffman of Chromapure. It was placed on a tripod about 6 inches from the lens and the sensor was placed as close to image center as possible:





I measured max zoom (max brightness) and telephoto (max contrast) and got 14,008:1 and 16,888:1 respectively for native on/off contrast.

Guys, if you have a lux meter, please measure your 1100ES/1000ES projectors and let me know what you get. My numbers match up pretty well with many of the pro-reviews out there who've measured new units. If you post please let us know how long you've owned the projector and roughly how many hours you've put on it.

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post #12251 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 06:26 PM
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I'd also like to say that RIGHT NOW, the image is simply amazing coming from this projector. I have no hesitation at all to say it's the best projected image I've ever seen. Considering I became less and less impressed with JVCs dynamic iris, to the point where I normally left it off, and me liking Sony's DI enough where I normally left it on, the Sony actually has more contrast available to it when brightness matched. And when you factor in the superior ANSI contrast, lens quality, sharpness, motion, and overall naturalness to the image I really don't want to sell this projector. But my gut feeling is that Andreas is correct and I'm going to sell this projector before this issue becomes known widespread and the value of Sony 4K projectors (especially this unit) plummets. If I'm wrong, and I hope I am, then someone will end up with this lovely 1100ES, with enough extra bulbs to last quite some time. If wrong, I'll most likely repurchase this unit in a few years because it's that good. Yes, I'm 26 and should invest the money into my first home, but I don't necessarily need the money right this second, but I'm not going to take any chances.

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post #12252 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
There are several very accurate and cheap lux meters available on Amazon if you don't own one.
Which one on Amazon, would you suggest?
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post #12253 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Which one on Amazon, would you suggest?
This meter gets recommended often as a cheap and relatively accurate unit:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...f_rd_i=desktop

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post #12254 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
This meter gets recommended often as a cheap and relatively accurate unit:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...f_rd_i=desktop
ordered it.. thanks!
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post #12255 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I'd also like to say that RIGHT NOW, the image is simply amazing coming from this projector. I have no hesitation at all to say it's the best projected image I've ever seen. Considering I became less and less impressed with JVCs dynamic iris, to the point where I normally left it off, and me liking Sony's DI enough where I normally left it on, the Sony actually has more contrast available to it when brightness matched. And when you factor in the superior ANSI contrast, lens quality, sharpness, motion, and overall naturalness to the image I really don't want to sell this projector. But my gut feeling is that Andreas is correct and I'm going to sell this projector before this issue becomes known widespread and the value of Sony 4K projectors (especially this unit) plummets. If I'm wrong, and I hope I am, then someone will end up with this lovely 1100ES, with enough extra bulbs to last quite some time. If wrong, I'll most likely repurchase this unit in a few years because it's that good. Yes, I'm 26 and should invest the money into my first home, but I don't necessarily need the money right this second, but I'm not going to take any chances.
Gut feeling? How many projectors have you owned and sold over the past year? Two years? I have a gut feeling that you'd be selling your Sony regardless of recent posts.
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post #12256 of 13341 Old 11-15-2015, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I just measured my unit. This light engine (SXRD panels, optical block, ect) literally has 4 hours on it. The lamp has 176 hours of use, but I doubt this will alter the contrast measurements. High lamp mode was used and I used the internal test patterns found within the service menu of the projector to take peak white and black level readings. The iris was set to off (fully open, no dynamic iris). I measured with my Minolta CL-200 recently calibrated by Tom Huffman of Chromapure. It was placed on a tripod about 6 inches from the lens and the sensor was placed as close to image center as possible:





I measured max zoom (max brightness) and telephoto (max contrast) and got 14,008:1 and 16,888:1 respectively for native on/off contrast.

Guys, if you have a lux meter, please measure your 1100ES/1000ES projectors and let me know what you get. My numbers match up pretty well with many of the pro-reviews out there who've measured new units. If you post please let us know how long you've owned the projector and roughly how many hours you've put on it.
This is about the same my VW1000 measured when it was new and after 1000 hours it measured 3000:1 mid zoom.

And the VW1100 when new is by far the best 2D projector I have seen to date, I am looking forward to checking out one of the top JVC models when they arrive as the X5000 gave a little of that VW1000 feeling when I saw it a while back.

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Last edited by Andreas21; 11-15-2015 at 11:25 PM.
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post #12257 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 01:20 AM
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Seegs i know how i open the Service menu,But i can Not find more Test pattern.
There can i find it in this Menu?
Thanks
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post #12258 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Seegs i know how i open the Service menu,But i can Not find more Test pattern.
There can i find it in this Menu?
Thanks
I'm at work right now so I can't say exactly where it is but it's under the 'Other' submenu like 3 or 4 items down once you go into the Other submenu. I think it says EnbTestPtn or something and you press right on that item and if shows like 10 or 12 different test patterns.
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post #12259 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Gut feeling? How many projectors have you owned and sold over the past year? Two years? I have a gut feeling that you'd be selling your Sony regardless of recent posts.
Say what ever makes you feel better. Do you plan on measuring your unit or are you going to keep posting on blind ignorance?
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post #12260 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 06:15 AM
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Thank you very much i try to find it tonight.
i need an cinemascope pattern for my new deep curved centerstage
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post #12261 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 06:46 AM
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Thank you very much i try to find it tonight.
i need an cinemascope pattern for my new deep curved centerstage
You dont need a cinemascope pattern to measure on/off contrast, and you dont need to use the service menu as you only need a testpattern disk with 0 and 100IRE.

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post #12262 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
You dont need a cinemascope pattern to measure on/off contrast, and you dont need to use the service menu as you only need a testpattern disk with 0 and 100IRE.

Should you take the readings off the screen. I thought the meter would be overloaded if positioned to take reading close to the lens?
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post #12263 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 06:56 AM
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Should you take the readings off the screen. I thought the meter would be overloaded if positioned to take reading close to the lens?
It depends on the meter being used. I just positioned the meter far enough away from the lens where it wasn't past it's limit.
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post #12264 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 07:10 AM
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It depends on the meter being used. I just positioned the meter far enough away from the lens where it wasn't past it's limit.

Thanks. (I don't own the 1000 but I do have a Sony pj). Never measured contrast before. I may give this ago next time I switch it on.
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post #12265 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 07:22 AM
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You dont need a cinemascope pattern to measure on/off contrast, and you dont need to use the service menu as you only need a testpattern disk with 0 and 100IRE.
Hi Andreas,
the pattern has nothing to do with your theme sorry.
I need a 21:9 cinemascope test picture to correct my 15" deep curve with the geobox unit
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post #12266 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 09:08 AM
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It is unfortunate that we are now seeing more cases of these type of problems. I would have hoped that with the optical block SXRD issues that Sony has had in the past; the designs would have gotten better/ more robust over the years. Hopefully, it will turn out that only be a small number of users that are effected by this issue. For the most part, things are always amplified on message boards because we all have a bit more knowledge than the average consumer. In the meantime, as an 1100 owner I plan to do my part and try to capture the contrast numbers over time. My unit has low hours so I can't really add much color on a older unit. Like many owners here, we have seen enough units to recognize a contrast issue, especially a drastic one like what we are discussing in this thread.
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post #12267 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Should you take the readings off the screen. I thought the meter would be overloaded if positioned to take reading close to the lens?
It depends on how sensitive your meter is and how bright it can measure, if you use a lightmeter you need to take measurements very close to the lens as the most sensitive only have 2 digits. With a Klein K10A you can take measurements off the screen on most projectors and get a exact measurement. When I measure on/off contrast on a JVC I use my K10A with the diffusor and faced towards the lens and then you get the most accurate measurements as the K10A is a 100 times more sensitive than the most sensitive lightmeter commonly used (Konica Minolta T10A).

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Last edited by Andreas21; 11-16-2015 at 09:27 AM.
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post #12268 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk44 View Post
Hi Andreas,
the pattern has nothing to do with your theme sorry.
I need a 21:9 cinemascope test picture to correct my 15" deep curve with the geobox unit
Sorry.

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meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501 on preorder Soon to be THX II certified.
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post #12269 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
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This is about the same my VW1000 measured when it was new and after 1000 hours it measured 3000:1 mid zoom.
you must have taken a big hit selling it with only 3K:1 contrast?
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post #12270 of 13341 Old 11-16-2015, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Say what ever makes you feel better. Do you plan on measuring your unit or are you going to keep posting on blind ignorance?
I'm at over 1800 hours on my current lamp and, even though I apparently have blind ignorance, I don't notice any drastic drop in black levels with my eyes. I have a good meter and will take a measurement. I'll take it again once I get a Mack lamp replacement. Then I'll join the bandwagon and sell the best looking projector under $50K on the market and buy a ???.

...Steve
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." - V
 
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