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post #12781 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post
Thanks Rich....but had already seen that(as well as followed all the discussions regarding E-Shift down the years).

I will let others do the talking:

And of course 4K Eshift3, the latest version of JVC’s detail enhancement solution. Let’s get this out of the way now. This is not a true 4K projector. Pixel size is the same as any 1080p projector – which is related to the true resolution of 1920×1080. But JVC shifts the optical system to fire each pixel a second time, about 1/3 of a pixel off. That still means the pixels are large. Thus the projector cannot match a true 4K projector, when 4K content is involved. There’s a real difference - http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/....o3AcvpBD.dpuf
Using your argument, then what is the actual resolution of 1080P CRT, since it does not put all of the pixels up at one time?

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post #12782 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 09:37 AM
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TheSony4KRises,

So you have been presented with JVC's own explicit technical explanation of how E-shift works, which shows you are wrong, and yet in "I can't admit I'm wrong on the internet" fashion, you go trawling through reviews for misleading quotes.

Is this the behavior of someone who cares about what is true?

There's no shame in admitting when you didn't first understand something. In fact, it's honorable and educational.

Can you answer this question honestly without quote-mining anyone else?

What resolution does E-shift 4 sample from a 4K source?
What resolution does it then display on screen?
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post #12783 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 11:17 AM
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IMHO, I have to say that this thread has gone so far downhill over the last dozen pages that it may be time to change the title to keep out the naysayers and non-owners. It used to be as close as one could get to an owner's thread without having that in the title, but has devolved into a Sony vs. JVC thread and that SUCKS!

Open another thread if you want to compare the two projectors. In case you forgot, that's really easy to do and you can all go there and have a great little love-fest to your heart's content. If you've switch back to JVC, bully for you, but get the hell out of this thread so that owners that still come here can discuss the Sony projector for which the thread is named!!! If you need to justify your switch to the rest of the Sony owners that still bother to read this thread, then do so elsewhere and whoever wants to listen to that can go there. We're smart enough to find it. And please don't give me your BS about this being an open thread / forum and that you're not fanboys, blah, blah, vomit. The fact remains that over 80% of the recent posts have come from owners of the latest JVCs. And this trend started around the same time that the JVC was announced and your orders taken.

I'm so happy for you that you've dumped your Sony and bought a JVC. Whoppie! Here's a clue for you all, there's a JVC thread for you already out there. And in case you forgot, most of you once owned this Sony projector or wished they could. And most of you came here to discuss it's great PQ and learn and disseminate information related to it. It was the only thread around for that. Now, you're here to bash it and defend your recent purchase. He's a clue for you all, those of us that haven't and remain don't give a rat's ass or what to hear it. Show some maturity and decorum if you can. You've already had your say, now go to another thread and pat yourselves on your backs there. We promise not to come into the JVC thread and bash your new darling of a projector that you've crowned king. Go enjoy what you've purchase, but do the rest of us a favor and just go away and let us get back to our regularly scheduled thread.

And if this offends you, then YES it's you I'm talking about and I suggest examining your motives and taking my advice before posting again and only proving my case.

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post #12784 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 11:48 AM
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move on please

thanks
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post #12785 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 11:59 AM
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I'm just curious if any other 1000ES/1100ES owners have measured their units for contrast and brightness loss over any time period? I'm going to be starting a new dedicated thread on the topic. I'll also be posting in the 600ES and 350ES threads to try and get more owners' measurements that way we can compile the information so it's in spot for people to see and discuss. Hopefully this will trigger a response from Sony on what they plan to do about it.

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post #12786 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I'm just curious if any other 1000ES/1100ES owners have measured their units for contrast and brightness loss over any time period?
I'd love to pursue this, but my understanding is that the level of equipment involved to measure this accurately is probably more than what most people have. Its already been suggested about getting pros involved, and that's probably the only way this would get traction. But then they are likely the ones with the most to lose by upsetting Sony...
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post #12787 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by turls View Post
I'd love to pursue this, but my understanding is that the level of equipment involved to measure this accurately is probably more than what most people have. Its already been suggested about getting pros involved, and that's probably the only way this would get traction. But then they are likely the ones with the most to lose by upsetting Sony...
Exactly.
I suspect that a tool like this is very expensive.
Someone would have to be willing to loan the tool out, pending a VISA number taken or PayPal deposit would be more practical.
The advantage to this is that everyone would be using the same tool so it would take that variable out of the equation.
This is quite common in car clubs such as an expensive hub puller.
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post #12788 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 04:55 PM
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Even a relatively cheap lux meter is accurate enough to measure a large deficit in contrast over time. We aren't trying to convince Sony that there's an issue, as they are already aware of the problem, but I think if more people measured their units and were upset enough to contact Sony about the problem if would expedite things so that Sony creates a fix sooner rather than later. I want Sony to continue to be competitive in the front projection market as that usually means us end users tend to get a better projector because of it.

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post #12789 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 05:46 PM
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post #12790 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 05:52 PM
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That is a popular cheap-o lux meter, but I'd recommend spending just a little more to gain more accuracy. I forget the model but there's a slightly more expensive one that's supposed to be a decent step up in accuracy.

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post #12791 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 06:09 PM
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http://www.amazon.ca/s/?ie=UTF8&keyw...l_3wir1qhanz_b

???
I've never used one, so I have no idea where to begin _ you're the expert here.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...=-1&isNodeId=1
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post #12792 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
http://www.amazon.ca/s/?ie=UTF8&keyw...l_3wir1qhanz_b

???
I've never used one, so I have no idea where to begin _ you're the expert here.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...=-1&isNodeId=1
When did I say I was a lux meter expert? The first one you linked to is reasonably accurate. Enough to sense a large drop in contrast over time. I'm just saying if you want to give Sony your results as evidence of contrast loss I'd recommend a better meter. There are used Minolta meters that go on sale on occasion. They are much more reliable than the one you linked to on amazon but again, will cost more money, but not enough where I'd consider unreasonably expensive, especially in the context of an 1100ES. Here's an example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Konica-Minol...wAAOSwwPtTvuo3

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post #12793 of 13353 Old 12-13-2015, 07:54 PM
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post #12794 of 13353 Old 12-14-2015, 01:51 AM
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Well said, Steve! It's simply disgusting what's been happening in this thread. It's title is "Sony VPL-VW1000" and this includes the 1100 as well. Dear JVC fanbois, if you have nothing constructively to say about these Sony projectors, please move over to the JVC threads. Lots of bragging can be done there. We won't miss you here. Thank you for your co-operation and understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
IMHO, I have to say that this thread has gone so far downhill over the last dozen pages that it may be time to change the title to keep out the naysayers and non-owners. It used to be as close as one could get to an owner's thread without having that in the title, but has devolved into a Sony vs. JVC thread and that SUCKS!

Open another thread if you want to compare the two projectors. In case you forgot, that's really easy to do and you can all go there and have a great little love-fest to your heart's content. If you've switch back to JVC, bully for you, but get the hell out of this thread so that owners that still come here can discuss the Sony projector for which the thread is named!!! If you need to justify your switch to the rest of the Sony owners that still bother to read this thread, then do so elsewhere and whoever wants to listen to that can go there. We're smart enough to find it. And please don't give me your BS about this being an open thread / forum and that you're not fanboys, blah, blah, vomit. The fact remains that over 80% of the recent posts have come from owners of the latest JVCs. And this trend started around the same time that the JVC was announced and your orders taken.

I'm so happy for you that you've dumped your Sony and bought a JVC. Whoppie! Here's a clue for you all, there's a JVC thread for you already out there. And in case you forgot, most of you once owned this Sony projector or wished they could. And most of you came here to discuss it's great PQ and learn and disseminate information related to it. It was the only thread around for that. Now, you're here to bash it and defend your recent purchase. He's a clue for you all, those of us that haven't and remain don't give a rat's ass or what to hear it. Show some maturity and decorum if you can. You've already had your say, now go to another thread and pat yourselves on your backs there. We promise not to come into the JVC thread and bash your new darling of a projector that you've crowned king. Go enjoy what you've purchase, but do the rest of us a favor and just go away and let us get back to our regularly scheduled thread.

And if this offends you, then YES it's you I'm talking about and I suggest examining your motives and taking my advice before posting again and only proving my case.
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post #12795 of 13353 Old 12-14-2015, 06:07 AM
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Thanks Jason. This is the other regularly recommend meter. More expensive than the the one linked above but this should prove to far more accurate.

For those who buy this meter and measure contrast, please post your results. Native contrast that has been unaffected should be higher than 10000:1. If you've measured lower than this you're experiencing contrast loss. It seems that after 500 hours or so is when this starts to occur and will get worse over time. I don't think there's been anyone who's measured a unit with this many hours who hasn't reported at least a decent drop in contrast. I'd like to see at least one person post they haven't experienced any so that we can say it isn't as widespread an issue as it currently seems.
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post #12796 of 13353 Old 12-14-2015, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
move on please

thanks
perhaps some members missed the request to move on:

if you want to start another thread, NOW is the time to do it
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post #12797 of 13353 Old 12-14-2015, 05:01 PM
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There was mention of Jim Peterson from Lumagen selling his 1000/1100 some time ago because it did not resolve full 4k.

I have a Lumagen Pro, and output the alternating single pixel lines both vertically and horizontally at 2160p (these are taken a few inches from the screen with my iPhone 6s):







I shared these with Jim, and he indicated this was almost too good, and was a 4k pass.

______

And this is a bright corner test (sheet of paper close to projector lens, Iris off) This seems to be a popular discussion topic on the JVC thread:



This would be considered excellent...


So all is not doom in Gotham!
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post #12798 of 13353 Old 12-14-2015, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
There was mention of Jim Peterson from Lumagen selling his 1000/1100 some time ago because it did not resolve full 4k.

I have a Lumagen Pro, and output the alternating single pixel lines both vertically and horizontally at 2160p (these are taken a few inches from the screen with my iPhone 6s):
Thanks. At Kris's with the VW665 we were trying different settings to see if we could find one that would work for high resolution patterns and never saw anything even close to this, so maybe we just didn't find the right combination or maybe the models are different in this regard. I'm guessing it is just that we didn't find the right combination of settings and these would look pretty good on the VW665 too (although maybe not as sharp) if the right settings were used (or if something in the chain causing an issue was replaced).

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post #12799 of 13353 Old 12-14-2015, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
There was mention of Jim Peterson from Lumagen selling his 1000/1100 some time ago because it did not resolve full 4k.

I have a Lumagen Pro, and output the alternating single pixel lines both vertically and horizontally at 2160p (these are taken a few inches from the screen with my iPhone 6s):







I shared these with Jim, and he indicated this was almost too good, and was a 4k pass.

______

And this is a bright corner test (sheet of paper close to projector lens, Iris off) This seems to be a popular discussion topic on the JVC thread:



This would be considered excellent...


So all is not doom in Gotham!
That looks very good on the 4K test pattern.

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post #12800 of 13353 Old 12-14-2015, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
There was mention of Jim Peterson from Lumagen selling his 1000/1100 some time ago because it did not resolve full 4k.

I have a Lumagen Pro, and output the alternating single pixel lines both vertically and horizontally at 2160p (these are taken a few inches from the screen with my iPhone 6s):
...

I shared these with Jim, and he indicated this was almost too good, and was a 4k pass.

______

And this is a bright corner test (sheet of paper close to projector lens, Iris off) This seems to be a popular discussion topic on the JVC thread:
...

This would be considered excellent...

So all is not doom in Gotham!
Apparently the Sony VW1100ES I had was not in "dot-by-dot" mode when I tested it as I thought. So it looks like the Sony VW1100ES does resolve a full 4k. [EDIT] I was just thinking maybe our screen was too close and the image too bright such that white lines washed out the black lines when I tried the every-other-line pattern. In any case Thrang's pictures show the VW100ES does resolve 4k.

NOTE: I sold the VW1100ES as it was too expensive to keep as a test device at Lumagen once 4k TVs became available, and not because I thought it couldn't resolve 4k. I have always thought the VW1100ES to be an excellent projector even when I did not think it could resolve a full 4k, and I had hoped to keep it and build a home theater with it. I was sad to see it go.

Also, on my comment about the line patterns posted by Thrang: I meant that they were better than I would expect and wanted to make sure the Radiance Pro was actually outputting 4k at the time. The Sony VW1100ES 4k every-other-line patterns posted by Thrang are excellent in my opinion though.

Finally, (whoever was first) please ask me for permission to post before quoting me. I consider my comments in a private conversation/email to be private.
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post #12801 of 13353 Old 12-14-2015, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
Thanks. At Kris's with the VW665 we were trying different settings to see if we could find one that would work for high resolution patterns and never saw anything even close to this, so maybe we just didn't find the right combination or maybe the models are different in this regard. I'm guessing it is just that we didn't find the right combination of settings and these would look pretty good on the VW665 too (although maybe not as sharp) if the right settings were used (or if something in the chain causing an issue was replaced).

--Darin
Nothing particular was set. Sharpness is at 10, and RC off or on passes the patterns as shown, except there is a very slight magenta tint with RC on (10 resolution and noise filtering) that is not visible in content.

Panel alignment is on, used in full pixel (10) adjustment increments where needed, and no zone alignment.

I'm not sure what I could change to NOT have it resolve as shown

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post #12802 of 13353 Old 12-15-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jrp View Post
Apparently the Sony VW1100ES I had was not in "dot-by-dot" mode when I tested it as I thought.
Where does one access this setting/option?

John
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post #12803 of 13353 Old 12-15-2015, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by netroamer View Post
Where does one access this setting/option?
I am not sure if there are non dot-by-dot modes (when input resolution matches output resolution) in the VW1100ES.

As I posted in an EDIT of my previous post, after thinking what might have been the cause of my not seeing the Sony VW1100ES resolve 4k, I believe it is more likely that the screen was too close (due to limited space in our lab) and that this might have been too close for best focus. This combined with the image on the screen only being about 4 to 5 foot diagonal perhaps making the image too bright such that the white lines appears wider than they would at a greater projector to screen distance, made the every-other-line pattern not look as sharp as it would have in an actual theater situation like Thrang's.

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post #12804 of 13353 Old 12-15-2015, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp;39763378[B
]I am not sure if there are non dot-by-dot modes[/B] (when input resolution matches output resolution) in the VW1100ES.

As I posted in an EDIT of my previous post, after thinking what might have been the cause of my not seeing the Sony VW1100ES resolve 4k, I believe it is more likely that the screen was too close (due to limited space in our lab) and that this might have been too close for best focus. This combined with the image on the screen only being about 4 to 5 foot diagonal perhaps making the image too bright such that the white lines appears wider than they would at a greater projector to screen distance, made the every-other-line pattern not look as sharp as it would have in an actual theater situation like Thrang's.

Jim


If you did send 3840 x 2160 (?) to the 1100 and you had the setting in "aspect" to 1.85 or 2.35 zoom mode it will scale and make "weird" patterns. it should stand in "normal" where it only will use the 3840x2160 pixels and blank the rest up to 4096 x 2160.


Just a thought


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post #12805 of 13353 Old 12-15-2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post
Jim


If you did send 3840 x 2160 (?) to the 1100 and you had the setting in "aspect" to 1.85 or 2.35 zoom mode it will scale and make "weird" patterns. it should stand in "normal" where it only will use the 3840x2160 pixels and blank the rest up to 4096 x 2160.


Just a thought


dj
Yes I was in normal mode...this is a good selling point for the Lumagen, since you can set up an anamorphic aspect setting in the Radiance, which leaves the Sony in normal aspect, but zoomed to the width of your 2.3x screen

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post #12806 of 13353 Old 12-16-2015, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Yes I was in normal mode...this is a good selling point for the Lumagen, since you can set up an anamorphic aspect setting in the Radiance, which leaves the Sony in normal aspect, but zoomed to the width of your 2.3x screen



Thanks Thrang ( for the feed back and Pictures )


But the post / suggestion was a response to JRP ( Jim Peterson, Lumagen ) , sorry if I took it from your orginal post and not his ?


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post #12807 of 13353 Old 12-16-2015, 10:35 AM
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BTW.


Here is mine, with Picture mute and with a screen sample arround 10 -15 cm from the lens ( hint : no bright corners )
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post #12808 of 13353 Old 12-17-2015, 11:46 AM
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So all is not doom in Gotham!
My 1100ES still has great uniformity, no bright corners, excellent color, sharpness, DI, motion, and no other issues except a raised black floor. More testing and discussions on that subject are being carried out in the Sony SXRD Degradation Thread - Effects All Current Sony SXRD 1080p/4K Panels thread with good information from other sources.

As I said before, my biggest concern isn't necessarily where my native CR is right now at 1900+ hours, it's if it will get any worse as time goes on. That's the $28,000 question along with knowing Sony's position on the issue. Are they Batman or the Joker? They need to take their mask off.
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post #12809 of 13353 Old 12-18-2015, 09:55 AM
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Yes I was in normal mode...this is a good selling point for the Lumagen, since you can set up an anamorphic aspect setting in the Radiance, which leaves the Sony in normal aspect, but zoomed to the width of your 2.3x screen
I use the Radiance Pro to scale to my 2.39 screen and am very pleased with the output of the Pro/1100 combo. Jim Petersen also came up with a formula to allow the Pro to scale to full height and correct width a couple of oddball AR's. 2.00 and 2.20 to be specific

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post #12810 of 13353 Old 12-18-2015, 10:05 AM
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BTW.


Here is mine, with Picture mute and with a screen sample arround 10 -15 cm from the lens ( hint : no bright corners )
Distance makes a huge difference in that image. Here is my projector at 10cm.
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