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post #12871 of 13341 Old 12-21-2015, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Concerning the contrast loss, pointing it out was welcomed initially, but when it leads to "the sky is falling" levels, it presents the appearance of being overboard.
I think it is real interesting that this contrast issue never got any traction until now. Right when JVC finally has something that may be an actual competitor to the 1100ES. Not sure what to make of that except...just very interesting timing...when it is not a new issue by any stretch of the imagination.

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post #12872 of 13341 Old 12-21-2015, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Hopefully, most can at least understand what I've said and possibly agree with some of my points.
I don't think we are in complete disagreement and can understand some frustration.

I hope we all enjoy whatever we get. Definitely no hard feelings on my end (at least not toward you ).

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post #12873 of 13341 Old 12-21-2015, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by turls View Post
I think it is real interesting that this contrast issue never got any traction until now. Right when JVC finally has something that may be an actual competitor to the 1100ES. Not sure what to make of that except...just very interesting timing...when it is not a new issue by any stretch of the imagination.
I have known this for a long time and I reported the problem directly to Sony in 2014, but I did not want to be a whistleblower so I reported nothing in here. But after the post on the THX forum a while ago I did not want to be silent anymore. So this has nothing to do with the RS500/600 coming out. That is just a silly comment!

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post #12874 of 13341 Old 12-21-2015, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I have known this for a long time and I reported the problem directly to Sony in 2014, but I did not want to be a whistleblower so I reported nothing in here. But after the post on the THX forum a while ago I did not want to be silent anymore. So this has nothing to do with the RS500/600 coming out. That is just a silly comment!
I'm the one that noted the issue in this thread years ago! There's no whistleblowing about it. Its also a long-known SXRD issue. But nobody even commented then...that's the part I find interesting. Why now?? I know that many in the THX forum were aware then too...but now it gets traction after many are out of warranty.

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post #12875 of 13341 Old 12-21-2015, 09:28 PM
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Steve, I get where you're coming from, but I think the reality is that an owners thread is where the vast majority of people who are interested in purchasing a projector come to when looking to find information about a projector. Say you hadn't been paying attention to the projector scene for a year or two and came to the forum looking for information pertaining to a specific projector in your price range that you were looking at possibly getting. You go into that owners thread and only find positive things written. What would you think? You'd think "oh, wow this is a great projector and everyone seems happy because there's no issues." And it would be like that if the forum were run the way you propose. Most people aren't going to go through 30 pages of forum threads looking for threads dedicated to issues. They're going to read the owners thread to see if there are any issues. If you bought a projector based on only the good you read in an owners thread and found out that the projector has some type of major flaw (large contrast drops or bright corners or terrible 3D performance, or whatever) wouldn't you be a little upset that the thread you read all the praise in forgot to mention some of the glaring flaws of the projector too? I don't think I've ever read a post in a dedicated owners thread that went "Hey, can anyone tell me what the issues with this projector are?" People aren't normally going to do that. They're simply going to read owners reviews and thoughts on that projector. It would be a disservice to these potential buyers to only stick to the good especially if there is some glaring bad as well. And ALL projectors have some glaring bad...even the JVCs. If you read the JVC threads, guess what? We talk about the bad too.
Good point! I tend to use the search function, ask questions, read reviews, and do everything I can to see it in person. I've found that there's usually an AVS member within driving distance that's happy to show off their projector. That's one way that I've used to preview what I intend to buy. AVS has a nice 5 hour try and return policy, but you still need to pay for shipping both ways. Seeing it already set up in someone's HT usually works well and saves a little money. Plus, you make new friends too.

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post #12876 of 13341 Old 12-21-2015, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
I don't think we are in complete disagreement and can understand some frustration.

I hope we all enjoy whatever we get. Definitely no hard feelings on my end (at least not toward you ).

Thanks,
Darin
Good man! Definitely none here either and not towards anyone else. If I'm ticked off at anyone, it's probably Sony.

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post #12877 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 12:04 AM
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I'm the one that noted the issue in this thread years ago! There's no whistleblowing about it. Its also a long-known SXRD issue. But nobody even commented then...that's the part I find interesting. Why now?? I know that many in the THX forum were aware then too...but now it gets traction after many are out of warranty.
I remember that, but you never reported anything you just said there might be a problem since there is a problem with the 1080p panels if I remember correct.

And you see the reason for me not to do this as the way this was met in here was not good and it almost evolved into personal attacks because I reported this. I have known this for a long time and have as I said reported this to Sony and they did nothing. The 1080p panels have been common knowledge for many years, the 4K panels have only been that for a short time.

Seegs108 and Zombie might report of another severe problem in here later, but they might not because of how you owners react. I reported this problem to Sony in early 2012 when I got my first VW1000 as I saw it as soon as I powered it on, and never heard anything about that from Sony either and all VW1000/1100 has this problem. I have not checked the VW500 for this, but i will when I test the VW520 in 2016, I will not say anything about this as I am not villing to be attacked by the Sony guys again...

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post #12878 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I remember that, but you never reported anything you just said there might be a problem since there is a problem with the 1080p panels if I remember correct.

And you see the reason for me not to do this as the way this was met in here was not good and it almost evolved into personal attacks because I reported this. I have known this for a long time and have as I said reported this to Sony and they did nothing. The 1080p panels have been common knowledge for many years, the 4K panels have only been that for a short time.

Seegs108 and Zombie might report of another severe problem in here later, but they might not because of how you owners react. I reported this problem to Sony in early 2012 when I got my first VW1000 as I saw it as soon as I powered it on, and never heard anything about that from Sony either and all VW1000/1100 has this problem. I have not checked the VW500 for this, but i will when I test the VW520 in 2016, I will not say anything about this as I am not villing to be attacked by the Sony guys again...
Sony did not report back to you, but that does not mean that they did nothing. Unless you have a contact high up in Sony that told you Sony did nothing. We do not know what they did. You could be right, but I suspect you are wrong, since you have reported that changes have been made to the panels. The problem is, we do not know all that has happened and I doubt that we ever will.

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post #12879 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 08:58 AM
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Sony did not report back to you, but that does not mean that they did nothing. Unless you have a contact high up in Sony that told you Sony did nothing. We do not know what they did. You could be right, but I suspect you are wrong, since you have reported that changes have been made to the panels. The problem is, we do not know all that has happened and I doubt that we ever will.
What I mean is Sony did nothing to fix my VW1100.

And that was actually most important to me at that time...

This was reported directly to a contact in Sony Europe and Norway and it was taken further to Japan if I was not lied to. This might have helped, but since this has been a problem for many years I doubt this made a huge change, but I don´t know if there had been any other reports from VW1000/1100 owners so it might have helped.

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post #12880 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 11:15 AM
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Your emphasis on resolution only being relevant at "any given moment" is just grossly ignorant of how displays work. Darin, and others, have been trying to teach you this, but you are stuck in "can't be wrong on the internet in front of everybody mode."

E-shift samples and displays higher resolution than 1080p - double that resolution - by presenting 2 separate frames worth of resolution so fast sequentially that our eyes perceive it as a single frame image. This is no different than how other elements are built sequentially in the same way - e.g. DLP color.

But more to the point, as Darin has pointed out: CRT displays build resolution SEQUENTIALLY.
A CRT quickly scans a frame, one pixel at a time, at a rate fast enough that it appears to our eyes as a single frame presenting all the resolution of a single frame.

So, to use your criteria: "At any given moment".... a CRT is only displaying one lit pixel. Does that mean that CRTs only have a resolution of 1 pixel? Because USING THE LOGIC YOU USE to deny sequential resolution for JVC's E-shift, that's what you would be saying. (1080i also uses sequential fields to create it's higher resolution as well).

Laser projectors also create 2K and 4K resolution by 'at any given time" only producing one pixel on the screen. Look up how they work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_video_display

"The systems work either by scanning the entire picture a dot at a time and modulating the laser directly at high frequency, much like the electron beams in a cathode ray tube, "


So, please, try to answer a question directly: Is building resolution sequentially in a way that our eyes will percieve it as a single image a valid method or not? Does it make sense to denote the resolution of a display based ONLY on what information it displays "at any given time" or does it make sense to acknowledge resolutions that are derived from sequential building up of information our eye will see as one image?

If you deny the validity of sequentially-built resolution, then you would have to say CRTs ought to be considered ONE PIXEL resolution displays, and 2K and 4K laser projectors ought to be considered ONE PIXEL resolution displays. This pits your knowledge against the entire industry. Do you want to look that silly?

Or, can you just admit that sequentially-built resolution - how it will be put together by our eyes - is an entirely valid measurement of resolution?

In which case, two different 1080p frames flashed sequentially to appear as one frame to our eyes, amounts to higher-than-1080p resolution (double that). It would therefore be WRONG to consider E-shift resolution (for 4K sources) as only 1080p for exactly the same reasons it is wrong to refer to CRT or Laser projectors as only being 1 pixel resolution. Can you admit this?

(ETA): If your claims about the large gulf between native 4K vs E-shift were correct, then shoot-outs between the new JVCs playing 4K sources and the Sony 4K projectors should produce obvious a differences in clarity and resolution. Instead: virtually every person who has done a shoot out with the new JVCs and the Sonys playing 4K - that includes reviewers, people on this forum, and several public shoot-outs in Europe, ALL confirm the difference is extremely subtle as predicted by an actual understanding of how E-shift and basic display resolution works.

C'mon. You can do this. I know you can.

To use the CRT comparison is plain wrong.
A CRT is defined as 1080p is because it has a grid/array of 1080X1920.
The fact that each Px is excited incrementally in horizontal"scans" that are so quick that your eyes ultimately decipher them as complete frames(in this case a HD frame of 1080 X 1920) is ultimately based on it's ability to retain the preceding(and current) pixel(s) it has created(until it completes the entire image).


What would happen if, after the 2nd pixel is defined,the first pixel disappeared?

And what would happen if this occurred for every subsequent scan? You would end up with one degraded looking image.

So a CRT effectively holds on to all the image information as it builds and eventually completes that individual frame....JVC's E-shift on the other hand loses what in effect would be the preceding sub frame it has created.

It has to do this in order to display one of those 1080p subframes at any specific moment....because it has 1080p Panels!


I am not belittling the quality of the JVC.....just defining the procedure in terms of how it operates.....and it's definitive limitations when compared explicitly to the 1100/1000es.
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post #12881 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 11:24 AM
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It's not so much that we're "praising" the JVC in this thread. It's that we're correcting misinformation being presented that would otherwise make the Sony look even more superior than it already is. Steve, you're smart enough to understand where Rich, Darin and I are coming from when discussing eshift. Joerod and TheSony4KRises are simply being unreasonable in their posting style. They too have an agenda and I think it's obvious what that agenda is by how they write their posts. Everyone understands the Sony 1100ES has a great lens that's paired with 4K panels and we all know with real 4K content it will have an advantage. We are simply trying to defend the misinformation being discussed about the JVCs eshift technology. The image is greater than 1080p in resolution when fed a 4K source and that it can come close in perceived detail. That's all we've been trying to discuss. As Rich points out, our forum should correct misinformation as it betters the community's understanding of these projectors.

As far as posting negative things. I still don't understand why posting negative aspects of a projector is a bad thing, especially if it hasn't been discussed yet? On top of that the contrast issue is a big deal in my opinion and I think others are concerned too. Why should this topic be swept under the rug and not discussed? I've recently been talking to Ekki of cine4home and a few other members about another issue with this projector and have confirmations from them all that it effects every unit. But I'm almost too afraid to present it here in this thread because I'm sure I'll get more than a few people upset by it. I've read that Sony has people watching this forum. If that's true we should be voicing our opinions more on issues so they know what we want corrected.

The only agenda I have is to make a clear definition on how the JVC creates it's image.....and more pertinently as far as this thread is concerned....how the creation of that image is limited in relation specifically to the 1000/1100es.
If the JVC can laud it over rivals from Epson, BenQ, Panasonic and various other Sony's that is fine.....but the 1000/1100 is a different kettle of fish.
The JVC has it's work cut out.
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post #12882 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 11:40 AM
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TheSony4KRises,

You are clearly in over your head on this technical discussion.
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Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post
The fact that each Px is excited incrementally in horizontal"scans" that are so quick that your eyes ultimately decipher them as complete frames(in this case a HD frame of 1080 X 1920) is ultimately based on it's ability to retain the preceding(and current) pixel(s) it has created(until it completes the entire image).
What does "it's" refer to in this sentence. The projector? The eyes?
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What would happen if, after the 2nd pixel is defined,the first pixel disappeared?
Disappeared off the screen? That would be like a fast phosphor CRT except taking more than one pixel time to dim, or like a scanning laser projector, which I already brought up. Can you figure out what the resolution is for a 4K scanning laser display? Is the resolution of the images created by such a display 1 pixel in your opinion?

You seem to be having trouble with what it means to build up a whole frame such that human vision cannot tell that the individual elements were put on the screen at different times.
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So a CRT effectively holds on to all the image information as it builds and eventually completes that individual frame....
Holds on to? As in, it keeps it in memory? Is that really your argument, that if the JVC just keeps the information internally it is more than 1080p, but if it just displays 1080p at a time and forgets what it just put up it isn't? By your claim it seems that a scanning laser projector is less than its stated resolution if it forgets what it just displayed once it is no longer needed and a fast phosphor 1080p CRT would also be less than 1080p if the image portion gets fed less than 1080p of data at a time, if you mean what it looks like you mean.

Do you really believe that a CRT cannot be designed to throw away the pixel information it just put up and still do 1080p images? How you think that is relevant to what the final images on the screen are (which is what matters) is baffling.

I'm getting the impression you are going to look for any angle you can to make it look like you were right and not actually learn a thing, which you could if the truth really matters more to you more than looking like you are right.

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Last edited by darinp2; 12-22-2015 at 12:07 PM.
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post #12883 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 11:55 AM
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The only agenda I have is to make a clear definition on how the JVC creates it's image.....and more pertinently as far as this thread is concerned....how the creation of that image is limited in relation specifically to the 1000/1100es.
If the JVC can laud it over rivals from Epson, BenQ, Panasonic and various other Sony's that is fine.....but the 1000/1100 is a different kettle of fish.
The JVC has it's work cut out.
The only issue is that your "clear definition" is incorrect and that's been the heart of several people's posts here (including mine) since we started this discussion.

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post #12884 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 11:58 AM
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For those who believe that TheSony4KRises might actually be right (he isn't), here is a thought experiment. Start with a 1080p chip with 25% fill ratio. Now add an e-shift element that shifts the image to the right by 1/2 of the whole 1080p pixel size (not the 25% size), then down by 1/2, then left by 1/2, with that completing one frame. Then repeat for the next 2160p frame.

There would be zero overlap between the pixels and if done at a high frequency the images on screen would be indistinguishable from a 2160p projector with 100% fill ratio and 2160p chips. Is there anybody besides TheSony4KRises who would claim that such a projector which created identical images to human vision to those from a projector with 2160p chips was not displaying 2160p images?

This is AVScience. I understand people's intuition that what matters is what happens at a point in time, but people's intuition also tells them that the world is flat and that heavy objects fall faster than lighter objects. If anybody thinks that a scanning laser projector fed 1 pixel at a time and displaying 1 pixel at a time, but at such a high rate that the images looked identical to 4K images from 4K chips, was only displaying 1 pixel of resolution per source frame then they really don't understand the subject matter that well. Such a projector would not be downscaling 4K images to 1 pixel images. It would be extracting 1 pixel at a time, which is a different thing.

Even if the Sony 4Ks stored half of each frame in one memory and half in another memory they would still be 4K projectors if they displayed all the pixels as encoded in the source.

E-shift JVCs are not displaying full 4K, but they are also not downscaling 4K images to 1080p. As I said a while ago, if a person wants to say they downscale 4K images to 2x1080p that would be fine.

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Last edited by darinp2; 12-22-2015 at 12:11 PM.
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post #12885 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 12:37 PM
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Since I thought this argument died off, but clearly hasn't, I'll throw this out for thought....

If Sony's next projector incorporated pixel shift technology, wouldn't their pseudo-8K be better than their current 4K image? Surely they'd make that claim. I realize that it's a matter of diminishing returns for most eyesight, but clearly it would be an improvement over 4K. And if so, isn't that improvement in terms of perceived resolution? If you see more detail, especially when passed a true 8K signal, that's increased resolution. On the other hand, no would would argue that a native 8K projector would be better.

e-Shift is an improvement in perceived resolution, but is not as good as native 4K. I hope that everyone can agree with this statement.

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post #12886 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 12:43 PM
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Since I thought this argument died off, but clearly hasn't, I'll throw this out for thought....

If Sony's next projector incorporated pixel shift technology, wouldn't their pseudo-8K be better than their current 4K image? Surely they'd make that claim. I realize that it's a matter of diminishing returns for most eyesight, but clearly it would be an improvement over 4K. And if so, isn't that improvement in terms of perceived resolution? If you see more detail, especially when passed a true 8K signal, that's increased resolution. On the other hand, no would would argue that a native 8K projector would be better.

e-Shift is an improvement in perceived resolution, but is not as good as native 4K. I hope that everyone can agree with this statement.
Given the lens is at least half way decent, yes, I'd agree 100%.
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post #12887 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 12:48 PM
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E-shift JVCs are not displaying full 4K, but they are also not downscaling 4K images to 1080p. As I said a while ago, if a person wants to say they downscale 4K images to 2x1080p that would be fine.
Just curious, are those two 1080p fields the same or slightly different? I would think the latter would be better.

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post #12888 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Since I thought this argument died off, but clearly hasn't, I'll throw this out for thought....

If Sony's next projector incorporated pixel shift technology, wouldn't their pseudo-8K be better than their current 4K image? Surely they'd make that claim. I realize that it's a matter of diminishing returns for most eyesight, but clearly it would be an improvement over 4K. And if so, isn't that improvement in terms of perceived resolution? If you see more detail, especially when passed a true 8K signal, that's increased resolution. On the other hand, no would would argue that a native 8K projector would be better.

e-Shift is an improvement in perceived resolution, but is not as good as native 4K. I hope that everyone can agree with this statement.

I could agree with you in theory Steve. Ultimately all we have to go by is what we see on the screen. Granted, I have a VW600, not a VW1100. Some things look better to me on the Sony VW600. Some things look better on the RS600. And some new movies like " Spy " look great on either one. I'm hoping that 4K Blu Ray comes soon so we can have something new to talk about - hopefully how great it makes both E shift and 4K projectors look. Hurry up CES......................

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post #12889 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
If Sony's next projector incorporated pixel shift technology, wouldn't their pseudo-8K be better than their current 4K image?
Yes. Just like JVC offers there simulation customers these with increasing quality and price:

2K
e-shift 4K (2k chips with e-shift element)
4K
e-shift 8K (4K chips with e-shift element)
8K

I was told about one major customer who cared greatly about resolution, but when shown image comparisons and what they will each cost this customer decided that e-shift was the way to go.
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Just curious, are those two 1080p fields the same or slightly different? I would think the latter would be better.
I haven't analyzed them, but I am sure they are different. They may differ the most when fed 4K content instead of 1080p content, but that is just in my thinking about it and not actually analyzing the different cases.

I'm guessing that Sony has at least thought about using an e-shift element as the next step from 4K instead of going straight up to 8K. I think e-shift 8K to real 8K would especially be diminishing returns for the extra chip cost (and possibly lens cost to really take advantage of the full 8K). With lenses that would be considered realistic for the price levels we are discussing here going to 8K from e-shift 8K may be worth it more for marketing than for actual improvement to the projected images.

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Last edited by darinp2; 12-22-2015 at 12:59 PM.
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post #12890 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Just curious, are those two 1080p fields the same or slightly different? I would think the latter would be better.
They are slightly different, hence taking double the information of 1080p. Otherwise a 4K source would look no better than a 1080p source on the JVCs (which isn't the case).

That the two frames contain separate information was established quite a while ago - as I remember it someone - I think it was JVC rep GaryB - confirmed this with JVC engineers. It's also what JVC states in their technical explanation of E-shift as well.

And...I'm still looking forward to owning a true 4K projector as soon as possible (when it makes sense for me) whether it's JVC or Sony (if Sony makes some more strides in contrast).
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post #12891 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 01:36 PM
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How many owners here are using a Darbee with your 1000/1100s?

I used to have a Darblet some years back when i had the Sony VW85 and thought it did a nice job with sharpening the image on that projector. Never really tried it on my VW500 because of the RC but i`m thinking of trying it on my VW1100 to see if it can enhance the image further.
I`m not keen on too much video processing going on but i did like it with the VW85 on low levels (15-25%) in high-def mode. No obvious artifacts with these settings that i could see.
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post #12892 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
What I mean is Sony did nothing to fix my VW1100.

And that was actually most important to me at that time...

This was reported directly to a contact in Sony Europe and Norway and it was taken further to Japan if I was not lied to. This might have helped, but since this has been a problem for many years I doubt this made a huge change, but I don´t know if there had been any other reports from VW1000/1100 owners so it might have helped.
Sorry, I thought you were talking about all projectors, not your own. Understandable why you would be concerned with your own.

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post #12893 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Since I thought this argument died off, but clearly hasn't, I'll throw this out for thought....

If Sony's next projector incorporated pixel shift technology, wouldn't their pseudo-8K be better than their current 4K image? Surely they'd make that claim. I realize that it's a matter of diminishing returns for most eyesight, but clearly it would be an improvement over 4K. And if so, isn't that improvement in terms of perceived resolution? If you see more detail, especially when passed a true 8K signal, that's increased resolution. On the other hand, no would would argue that a native 8K projector would be better.

e-Shift is an improvement in perceived resolution, but is not as good as native 4K. I hope that everyone can agree with this statement.
I am replying to what is in bold. The answer is yes, if all the rest of the specs are equal, but all other specs are not equal.

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post #12894 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I could agree with you in theory Steve. Ultimately all we have to go by is what we see on the screen. Granted, I have a VW600, not a VW1100. Some things look better to me on the Sony VW600. Some things look better on the RS600. And some new movies like " Spy " look great on either one. I'm hoping that 4K Blu Ray comes soon so we can have something new to talk about - hopefully how great it makes both E shift and 4K projectors look. Hurry up CES......................
Craig what content do you find looks better on the VW600 compared to the RS600?

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post #12895 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 05:14 PM
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How do Blu-rays look on the Sony?

Does scaling 1080p to 4K cause any kind of loss (in terms of sharpness, details, artifacts, etc.) to where it makes sense to actually watch Blu-ray on a 1080p projector if that is the vast amount of viewing?

I realize the Oppo 103D will upscale to 4K, so that's another option although I wonder how it compares to sending 1080p and allowing the Sony to upscale.

This is one the issues I struggle with on a 4K projector as I know Blu-ray will be the vast amount of my viewing for the next several years. I don't expect UHD BD to offer very many of the titles I will want to watch and it will take years for such movies to get released (and many probably never will). So I wonder if I am better off with a native 1080p projector for a while.

Almost all new movies are finished at 2K today and will continue for some time. Since HDR is probably not going to be a big factor for front projectors, we're left with the wider color gamut, 10 bit, and seemingly more efficient compression. I am starting to wonder how much 4K matters for movies unless we see catalog titles released (from analog film with 4K scans and DIs), but I think the studios are going to largely hold off on those for a while. Note, I only use my projector for movies and that will not change.



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post #12896 of 13341 Old 12-22-2015, 08:29 PM
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IMHO, the Sony does a great job with BDs. There's some very minor ringing, so perfectionists opted for a Lumagen. I've primarily watching all my BD and material through an HTPC that uses MadVR, so that may be why I'm seeing great results. Of course, it always boils down to the source. Garbage in / garbage out. I should also point out that true 4K shorts via the HTPC or FMP-X1 look even better than BD, so I think that UHD-BDs will look great. I'm hoping to at least also see improvement from DCI/P3 that the Sony can do.
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post #12897 of 13341 Old 12-23-2015, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BakeApples View Post
How many owners here are using a Darbee with your 1000/1100s?

I used to have a Darblet some years back when i had the Sony VW85 and thought it did a nice job with sharpening the image on that projector. Never really tried it on my VW500 because of the RC but i`m thinking of trying it on my VW1100 to see if it can enhance the image further.
I`m not keen on too much video processing going on but i did like it with the VW85 on low levels (15-25%) in high-def mode. No obvious artifacts with these settings that i could see.

I do ( HD 35 ) , and it do make it ( a Little ) better IMO - its hard to live with out, when you first is getting used to it.


dj

Last edited by d.j.; 12-23-2015 at 06:34 AM.
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post #12898 of 13341 Old 12-23-2015, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
How do Blu-rays look on the Sony?

Does scaling 1080p to 4K cause any kind of loss (in terms of sharpness, details, artifacts, etc.) to where it makes sense to actually watch Blu-ray on a 1080p projector if that is the vast amount of viewing?

I realize the Oppo 103D will upscale to 4K, so that's another option although I wonder how it compares to sending 1080p and allowing the Sony to upscale.

This is one the issues I struggle with on a 4K projector as I know Blu-ray will be the vast amount of my viewing for the next several years. I don't expect UHD BD to offer very many of the titles I will want to watch and it will take years for such movies to get released (and many probably never will). So I wonder if I am better off with a native 1080p projector for a while.

Almost all new movies are finished at 2K today and will continue for some time. Since HDR is probably not going to be a big factor for front projectors, we're left with the wider color gamut, 10 bit, and seemingly more efficient compression. I am starting to wonder how much 4K matters for movies unless we see catalog titles released (from analog film with 4K scans and DIs), but I think the studios are going to largely hold off on those for a while. Note, I only use my projector for movies and that will not change.



IMO better then a 1080P projector ( with the same quality ), so it absolutly benefit from the upscaling and RC to "UHD" resolution.
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post #12899 of 13341 Old 12-23-2015, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
IMHO, the Sony does a great job with BDs. There's some very minor ringing, so perfectionists opted for a Lumagen. I've primarily watching all my BD and material through an HTPC that uses MadVR, so that may be why I'm seeing great results. Of course, it always boils down to the source. Garbage in / garbage out. I should also point out that true 4K shorts via the HTPC or FMP-X1 look even better than BD, so I think that UHD-BDs will look great. I'm hoping to at least also see improvement from DCI/P3 that the Sony can do.
For the two months that I had a 1000 in my room, I agree.
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post #12900 of 13341 Old 12-23-2015, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Craig what content do you find looks better on the VW600 compared to the RS600?

I prefer the way " Mad Max : Fury Road looks on the VW600. Mind you I'm still fine tuning the RS600. But, I find that all three projectors I have, have subtle differences to their look. I prefer " Avatar " on my Lumis. And I definitely prefer " Gravity " on the RS600. Not that any of these projectors are throwing a bad image. I'm splitting hairs like the rest of you.
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