Sony VPL-vw1000 - Page 454 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Forum Jump: 
 1264Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #13591 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 02:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 9,369
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked: 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post
Dude

You abandon every projector like it is a sinking ship
I'm always on the look out for the next best thing. Whatever that is I keep until there's something new to try out. Unfortunately for the 1100ES, posterization and the inevitable contrast loss issue were enough of a reason to get rid of it. 6 months was long enough for me to get an understanding of it's potential performance. I had an X500 for two years and now I plan on keeping the RS500 until something seemingly better comes out.
Seegs108 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #13592 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 02:54 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 23,494
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Oddly enough Joerod, you haven't owned this projector for months and that hasn't stopped you from posting either. How hypocritical of you. I sure hope you stay out of the 665ES thread now too.
December counts as months? Plus I am not treating the 1100 like it's an ex girlfriend. Glad I'm away and celebrating but yet still here insulting the brand. I said in November you will still be here in March and now I will predict again you will be here in June. That's 2017!
Billybobjimbob likes this.

My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1462841668379
joerod is offline  
post #13593 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 02:55 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 23,494
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSony4KRises View Post
Dude

You abandon every projector like it is a sinking ship
The title of his own personal book should be "Will There Ever Be A Rainbow?"
cdnscg and TheSony4KRises like this.

My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1462841668379
joerod is offline  
post #13594 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 02:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 9,369
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked: 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
December counts as months? Plus I am not treating the 1100 like it's an ex girlfriend. Glad I'm away and celebrating but yet still here insulting the brand. I said in November you will still be here in March and now I will predict again you will be here in June. That's 2017!
Hmmm, let's see. December, January, February, March. Yep, I'd say that qualifies as months. I'm treating this projector exactly how it is. It's not my fault that some people are in denial about the issues at hand.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #13595 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 02:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 9,369
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked: 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
The title of his own personal book should be "Will There Ever Be A Rainbow?"
Says the person who's went through three $15000+ projectors in as many months. Give me a break...
Seegs108 is online now  
post #13596 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 02:59 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 23,494
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Hmmm, let's see. December, January, February, March. Yep, I'd say that qualifies as months. I'm treating this projector exactly how it is. It's not my fault that some people are in denial about the issues at hand.
You just love reminding everyone every couple weeks of the struggles you had with your Amazon bought 1100 for 10K. We get it. Change the channel. Move on. I guess it's time to put you back on the ignore list. I know of 9 people who have already.

Who's sick and tired of reading the same thing over and over and over again- raise your hand.

My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1462841668379
joerod is offline  
post #13597 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 03:01 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 23,494
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Says the person who's went through three $15000+ projectors in as many months. Give me a break...
My end game all along has been the 5000ES. I have never kept that a secret. I had the 1000/1100 for a few years...

My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1462841668379
joerod is offline  
post #13598 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 03:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 9,369
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked: 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
You just love reminding everyone every couple weeks of the struggles you had with your Amazon bought 1100 for 10K. We get it. Change the channel. Move on. I guess it's time to put you back on the ignore list. I know of 9 people who have already.

Who's sick and tired of reading the same thing over and over and over again- raise your hand.
That's fine. You can go back in the bubble with those other members and live happily. Ignorance is bliss after all.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #13599 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 03:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 9,369
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked: 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
You just love reminding everyone every couple weeks of the struggles you had with your Amazon bought 1100 for 10K. We get it. Change the channel. Move on. I guess it's time to put you back on the ignore list. I know of 9 people who have already.

Who's sick and tired of reading the same thing over and over and over again- raise your hand.
Please remind me what's wrong with buying from Amazon? They're an official Sony electronics dealer. It was an 1000ES when I bought it. The last one they had in stock. I had it sent in for the upgrade to an 1100ES. That was purchased through Mike at AVScience. After I noticed the posterization and banding (as shown in pictures by several others here on the forum as an inherent issue) I had the unit sent in under warranty and had the optical block and SXRD panels/drivers swapped for new ones. I got the unit back. The issue persisted. I PM'ed others and they said it was there as well. That was the final straw. I put it up for sale. How does Amazon being my dealer have anything to do the inherent issues that are plagued by this unit?

Last edited by Seegs108; 03-04-2016 at 03:10 PM.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #13600 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 03:05 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
joerod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MIDWEST (just outside Chicago)
Posts: 23,494
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 588 Post(s)
Liked: 456
So ignoring posts makes life 1100 times better. Or now should I say 5000 times better? Just learned its enroute. Excited. Have a good weekend everyone. And yes it will be measured...

hermosa likes this.

My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homeste...=1462841668379
joerod is offline  
post #13601 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 03:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfrbw View Post
"All SXRD units suffer from bad panel degradation it is not just a small handful of units. I have measured several 4K and 1080p models and I know many who have measured many and it adds up to several hundreds of SXRD projectors and all suffer from bad panel degradation."

Did it occur that such categorical statements are IMPOSSIBLE to make, since nobody has access to EVERY SXRD panel in use? Also, what kind of reasonable study would it take to determine that hundreds of projectors are bad? It would take a year, you would need to define parameters, you would have to control your results in some way, and you would have to compile and presumably publish such data. Otherwise, the allegation continues to be anecdotal at best.

So, the bedrock of the allegations continue to be that consumers are too dumb or indifferent to know what they are seeing. But, lenses "don't matter". On the one hand, there is allegation of mass impairment that is incredibly important, but that the lenses don't make a difference in the image. Or, that there is a lens that is "good enough" and again, said stupid consumers can't tell the difference, anyway. Though the lens doesn't matter, the panels DO matter based on what seems to be a subset of anecdotal appraisals based on a limited number of units.

So, it is OK in video land to obsess on anecdotal information about SXRD deterioration, but it is NOT OK to desire a better lens.

This is simply crazy information. Did it ever occur that this all is tripping over your own shoelaces with a sliding scale of value systems that are applied differentially and at random in order to reinforce an anecdotal meme?

Also, these same dumb consumers just HAVE TO HAVE un-projectable bells and whistles based on the current planned obsolescence, because even though nobody really even knows how those new standards actually play out, they are critically more important than a high quality lens.

No projector is going to be bullet proof against the future, because the industry simply won't allow it, period. If you show up and a year, there will be simply be another tower of babel to deal with in terms of standards.

OH, GEE, THE LENS DOESN'T MATTER, BUT THOSE CRAPPY PANELS DO MATTER, EVEN IF YOU CAN'T SEE THEM.

I must be the most lucky consumer in the world, having owned three SXRD products, and the 1100es used for a short time. I certainly can't make any statement about the 1100es without a time line, but the other two produces, the SXRD RPTV that is 10 years old and the VPL VW200 that is seven or eight years old continue to perform incredibly well. I certainly cannot prove or disprove "a negative" in regards to the recently owned 1100es one way or another.

I had a Sony CRT projector in the day that was getting old, so I got the VPL VW100. That one had the original 3000:1 panels, and certainly, it could have used better contrast, but the picture was very nice, anyway. I did miss the contrast of the CRT, but it was old. I gave it away to an Arab man in the central valley, who sent me chocolates every christmas for four years and told me how his family continued to enjoy it.

I thought the VPL VW200 was pretty much a CRT killer. The natural appearance, great colors, brightness, sharpness and blacks were plenty "good enough". If the contrast deteriorated to the level of the VW100, I certainly would have noticed. Many of the claims are stating that the current 4k panels are WORSE than the contrast of the original VPL VW100, and yet, consumers aren't noticing.

So, experts, you insult the perceptions of the consumers if they don't reinforce the SXRD meme, but you tell them that any old lens is fine because the quality of the lens doesn't really matter.

The ten year old SXRD RPTV that I have also has the original 3000;1 panels, and as far as I can tell, the contrast has gotten better over the nearly six years I have had it, though that may be a bulb brightness issue, but the picture is blazing bright still.

So I just have to ask the ugly question: is this just product steering propaganda? If it is, then the informational utility of these blogs is really in question.
All I can say is ignorance is bliss.

When several people measure several hundreds of SXRD projectors and all get the same result: 100% of them show severe panel degradation I think we can say with quite positive results that this happens to nearly 100% of all SXRD panels.

Regards
Andreas
My Homecinema
Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.
Andreas21 is online now  
post #13602 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 03:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
d.j.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,504
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
So ignoring posts makes life 1100 times better. Or now should I say 5000 times better? Just learned its enroute. Excited. Have a good weekend everyone. And yes it will be measured...






Remember to look after bright corners
d.j. is offline  
post #13603 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 03:55 PM
Senior Member
 
cjfrbw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 27
"All I can say is ignorance is bliss.

When several people measure several hundreds of SXRD projectors and all get the same result: 100% of them show severe panel degradation I think we can say with quite positive results that this happens to nearly 100% of all SXRD panels."

No, you can't.

WHERE'S THE BEEF!

Where are these controlled studies in a credible, published format?

If that isn't forthcoming, then these statements are assertion fallacy that has been elevated to the level of truth then repeated ad nauseum into a purposefully misleading meme.

Are there projectors and panels that are bad? Of course, no manufacturing process is perfect. Do electronics deteriorate with time? Of course, but that is a general statement about electronics in general. However, nobody will state how many projectors are in service and what percentages are affected because presumably NOBODY HAS THAT INFORMATION.

If you had a hundred projectors out of 10 thousand that are affected, that is an incidence of one in a hundred.

Is it possible to do reliable statistical sampling to project a conclusion about a certain number of units? Maybe, but you would have to have reliable, incontrovertible data to do that, you would have to do it on totally random samples, and nobody has shown that such data exist outside of anecdote.
Even such a statistical study would not categorically state that ALL units are affected, it would simply state confidence levels within certain boundaries.

When anybody categorically states that ALL SXRD panels are affected, they stating something that they cannot possibly know. If these individuals are willing to state with confidence something that they could not possibly know is true, then they are simply deluded or are misdirecting on purpose.
cjfrbw is offline  
post #13604 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 03:59 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,442
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1129 Post(s)
Liked: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBCAT View Post
I read about this in a post quite some time ago.
So if Sony hasn't solved this, it will be interesting to see if the 5000es starts to "Go South" after a few hundred hours and owners start to complain.
I hope that Joerod gets a baseline measurement on his 5000es when he receives it, then checks it every 100hrs or so to see if the contrast holds up.
If it has, then Sony has solved the issue.
If not, Sony better have some answers....
You really think Joerod would publish that his new expensive projectors was losing contrast ratio before he sells it? I got the impression that when he sold his VW1100 he didn't tell the buyer about any contrast ratio degradation. Do his reviews ever include any technical information as advanced as doing a measurement for contrast ratio or are they more fluff reviews?

I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

--Darin
LJG, Seegs108 and Andreas21 like this.

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Last edited by darinp2; 03-04-2016 at 04:02 PM.
darinp2 is offline  
post #13605 of 14106 Old 03-04-2016, 04:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfrbw View Post
"All I can say is ignorance is bliss.

When several people measure several hundreds of SXRD projectors and all get the same result: 100% of them show severe panel degradation I think we can say with quite positive results that this happens to nearly 100% of all SXRD panels."

No, you can't.

WHERE'S THE BEEF!

Where are these controlled studies in a credible, published format?

If that isn't forthcoming, then these statements are assertion fallacy that has been elevated to the level of truth then repeated ad nauseum into a purposefully misleading meme.

Are there projectors and panels that are bad? Of course, no manufacturing process is perfect. Do electronics deteriorate with time? Of course, but that is a general statement about electronics in general. However, nobody will state how many projectors are in service and what percentages are affected because presumably NOBODY HAS THAT INFORMATION.

If you had a hundred projectors out of 10 thousand that are affected, that is an incidence of one in a hundred.

Is it possible to do reliable statistical sampling to project a conclusion about a certain number of units? Maybe, but you would have to have reliable, incontrovertible data to do that, you would have to do it on totally random samples, and nobody has shown that such data exist outside of anecdote.
Even such a statistical study would not categorically state that ALL units are affected, it would simply state confidence levels within certain boundaries.

When anybody categorically states that ALL SXRD panels are affected, they stating something that they cannot possibly know. If these individuals are willing to state with confidence something that they could not possibly know is true, then they are simply deluded or are misdirecting on purpose.
Think what you like!

I know my statements are 100% true and Sony is working hard on a fix, but they have not found the solution yet. And I have not said it affects 100% of SXRD panels, but when different people in different countries measure hundreds of different SXRD projectors and all show the same it is very possible it affects nearly 100%.

I owned a VW1000/1100 for three years and if the panel degradation had not happened I would still own it. Some in here actually called me a Sony fanboy several times a few years ago!
LJG likes this.

Regards
Andreas
My Homecinema
Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.
Andreas21 is online now  
post #13606 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 02:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
stevenjw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: DC Metro area USA
Posts: 2,520
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
Liked: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I know my statements are 100% true and Sony is working hard on a fix, but they have not found the solution yet.
That's nice to know, but I'm guessing that you're under some NDA that stops you from saying anything more on exactly what the issue is or when they think they'll have it resolved.

If I've read things correctly... It's not due to heat. The panels are not organic. It's likely affected most/all Sony SXRD projectors. They've mitigated it somewhat in the 5000ES, but since there's no solution yet, it's not immune either. And no one is saying if they plan to fix our 1100ES projectors when a solution is found since they're not publicly admitting that there even is an issue. Do I have any of that wrong?
BOBCAT likes this.

...Steve
"Opinions are like orgasms… mine matters most and I really don’t care if you have one."
 
My HT gear
stevenjw is offline  
post #13607 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 04:15 AM
Member
 
jabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I measure with a AEMC CA813 (very close to the lens as it is not very sensitive) without any software, but when I want to be 100% accurate I measure with a Klein K10A (with the diffusor on and facing the lens) and Calman 5 software.
Ok a bit too much than I'm willing to pay for a seldom used device. Would this do the same trick?
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PLMT16-Ha...7176007&sr=1-1

I have a Xrite pro, but I don't think a colorimeter is an effective light meter.
jabz is offline  
post #13608 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 05:48 AM
Senior Member
 
TheSony4KRises's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I'm always on the look out for the next best thing. Whatever that is I keep until there's something new to try out. Unfortunately for the 1100ES, posterization and the inevitable contrast loss issue were enough of a reason to get rid of it. 6 months was long enough for me to get an understanding of it's potential performance. I had an X500 for two years and now I plan on keeping the RS500 until something seemingly better comes out.
That's fine and i don't have a problem with your strategy.
In terms of a sinking ship.....the 1000/1100 has been out for the best part of 5 years(if you include the late half of 2011).
And whilst it might be sinking(in your eyes)....it is taking quite a long time to sink.
That's pretty good going in this game.

I am coming from the other end of the spectrum.
I have had the 1000es for nearly 4 years now(and my Panny AE2000 for 8).....and intend to keep both for much longer.
My next jump will hopefully be for 8K in another 10 years or so(maybe longer).

Yes, the 1000/1100 will be surpassed eventually by "cheaper and better" 4K projectors.

You would argue that is the case already.....others(like me) may beg to differ.

The fact the 1000/1100 is still competitive after half a decade is already testimony to it's quality.
stevenjw, G-Rex and d.j. like this.
TheSony4KRises is offline  
post #13609 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 06:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
G-Rex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 1,502
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
That's nice to know, but I'm guessing that you're under some NDA that stops you from saying anything more on exactly what the issue is or when they think they'll have it resolved.

If I've read things correctly... It's not due to heat. The panels are not organic. It's likely affected most/all Sony SXRD projectors. They've mitigated it somewhat in the 5000ES, but since there's no solution yet, it's not immune either. And no one is saying if they plan to fix our 1100ES projectors when a solution is found since they're not publicly admitting that there even is an issue. Do I have any of that wrong?
Highly doubt Seegs is under an NDA. That is giving his position a bit too much credit. If so, he wouldn't be posting as he is on forums. I have been under NDAs and I wouldn't even touch the topic verbally, never mind in hundreds of public documented posts on forum threads. He even started a thread on it. Besides, if he was somewhat connected to the industry he would not be buying a referb 1000 on Amazon.

The only thing we have learned is an individual alleging what the contrast lost is not...it's not this, it's not that....etc... with no explanation. I doubt even that individual is under an NDA. If accurate, I'm sure he would rather not weaken or risk his relationship with Sony. The latter is the same reason why my guy (engineer) would not come forward and post.

All I know is, my projector will be used as often as possible (in case this is accurate...even though it defies logic) and will be used in low mode to avoid heat. Heat is the #1 killer of electronics. Avoiding high mode can't hurt, even though many say otherwise. My contrast levels appear to be fine and I have no complaints (at this point). I am not saying there is no merit to the contrast issue, but the evidence is very wishy washy and undocumented from a controlled measuring standpoint.
d.j. likes this.

Last edited by G-Rex; 03-05-2016 at 03:56 PM.
G-Rex is offline  
post #13610 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 08:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
That's nice to know, but I'm guessing that you're under some NDA that stops you from saying anything more on exactly what the issue is or when they think they'll have it resolved.

If I've read things correctly... It's not due to heat. The panels are not organic. It's likely affected most/all Sony SXRD projectors. They've mitigated it somewhat in the 5000ES, but since there's no solution yet, it's not immune either. And no one is saying if they plan to fix our 1100ES projectors when a solution is found since they're not publicly admitting that there even is an issue. Do I have any of that wrong?
You are correct and I am not allowed to say what they have done with the new models. And I dont think Sony will ever go public with it, but they have done something. All we can do is follow up the new models with measurements and see if what they have done is doing anything with the problem.

Regards
Andreas
My Homecinema
Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.
Andreas21 is online now  
post #13611 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 08:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabz View Post
Ok a bit too much than I'm willing to pay for a seldom used device. Would this do the same trick?
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PLMT16-Ha...7176007&sr=1-1

I have a Xrite pro, but I don't think a colorimeter is an effective light meter.
It is not accurate enough if it only has one digit, you need at least two digits and if you measure JVC projectors you need to place it very close to the lens to be able to read black.

The Xrite colorimeter is not effective as a lightmeter, but the Klein K10A is and it is 100 times more accurate than the Konica Minolta T10A and my AEMC CA813.
kohe321 likes this.

Regards
Andreas
My Homecinema
Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.
Andreas21 is online now  
post #13612 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 08:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Highly doubt Seegs is under an NDA. That is giving his position a bit too much credit. If so, he wouldn't be posting as he is on forums. I have been under NDAs and I wouldn't even touch the topic verbally, never mind in hundreds of public documented posts on forum threads. He even started a thread on it. Besides, if he was somewhat connected to the industry he would not be buying a referb 1000 on Amazon.

The only thing we have learned is an individual alleging what the contrast lost is not...it's not this, it's not that....etc... with no explanation. I doubt even that individual is under an NDA. If accurate, I'm sure he would rather not weaken or risk his relationship with Sony. The latter is the same reason why my guy (engineer) would not come forward and post.

All I know is, my projector will be used as often as possible (in case this is accurate...even though it defies logic) and will be used in low mode to avoid heat. Heat is the #1 killer of electronics. Avoiding high mode can't hurt, even though many say otherwise. My contrast looks great and I have no complaints (at this point). I am not saying there is no merit to the contrast issue, but the evidence is very wishy washy and undocumented from a controlled measuring standpoint.
It is public knowledge Sony has done something with the new models to try to fix the problem, but it is not common knowledge what they have done. I know what they have done and I am under NDA as I have inside info from Sony.

And if you guys don´t belive the Sony SXRD panels have serious degradation problems I think you should stop posting in here an just live in your own bubble and enjoy your VW1000/1100 that will probably have about 1/3 of its original contrast after around 1000 hours. It still throws a very nice image, but if you could test it side by side with a new unused VW1100 you would be shocked.
kohe321 likes this.

Regards
Andreas
My Homecinema
Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.
Andreas21 is online now  
post #13613 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 08:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 9,369
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3840 Post(s)
Liked: 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Highly doubt Seegs is under an NDA. That is giving his position a bit too much credit. If so, he wouldn't be posting as he is on forums. I have been under NDAs and I wouldn't even touch the topic verbally, never mind in hundreds of public documented posts on forum threads. He even started a thread on it. Besides, if he was somewhat connected to the industry he would not be buying a referb 1000 on Amazon.
He wasn't talking about me and the unit I bought wasn't a refurb. You'll notice they currently sell the 1100ES:

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VPLVW1100...Q3DM52PSRRE0W8

Well, they used to have 1000ES's in stock. That was before I bought I bought the last one. Have you guys ever heard of a clearance sale?

Last edited by Seegs108; 03-05-2016 at 08:22 AM.
Seegs108 is online now  
post #13614 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 08:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 8,490
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1418 Post(s)
Liked: 2112
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
So anyone, who asks Sony questions, including consumers, about the alleged drop in contrast winds up on an NDA list? Were they visited by men in black? Man so must be good at keeping things quiet from all.

If this issue was very widespread (and yes not only would I want to know, but I would take action), you would think major leaks would have occurred as to the cause and remedial measures taken. It's these remedial measures that would open the door to possible liability and feasibility of repair or credit to another model. i.e. the lawsuits relative to the SXRD green blobs.

If many people are in the know, but remain silent, it is really quite the injustice for us consumers. We need someone to come forward with the hard facts and measures taken to repair, or we are screwed at finding a remedy. If this were proven, they should give us a huge credit to a 5000.
I am privy to a lot of inside information from companies and receive emails quite frequently from them with disclaimers written specifically into the email that states that the information contained is not to be used or released to the public without direct consent from the company that provided it. It isn't a standard NDA, which I've signed many, but it does bind you to not release the info and gives them a way to cover their bases. In fact I got one yesterday from a company that is well discussed in these very forums and this was written along the bottom:

Quote:
Confidentiality Notice: "The information contained in this e-mail and all attachments is confidential and is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender by return e-mail and delete the e-mail and all attachments from your system. Thank you."
So there are many ways to get information that you're not allowed to share without signing actual NDAs.
Andreas21 and kohe321 like this.

My Home Theater
Technical Editor/Writer Sound and Vision Magazine
Kris Deering is offline  
post #13615 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 08:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
G-Rex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 1,502
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 209
I would agree with that, but see my edit above:

"It sounds like a very odd NDA, where one is allowed to talk about the contrast loss problem, how to help avoid the problem and that there has been remedial measures taken. However, one is strictly forbidden to talk about the cause or the specifics of the remedial measures taken. Very unusual from an NDA standpoint."

These agreements are usually very broad and not highly specific/selective in scope.

Last edited by G-Rex; 03-05-2016 at 08:50 AM.
G-Rex is offline  
post #13616 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 08:45 AM
Senior Member
 
12GAGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 36
I think that sums it up well Steven. This is like an engineering riddle of the highest order. It degrades with use but supposedly heavy usage lessens the degradation. However, the panel degradation is permanent once it occurs. Seems it could be a cycling/fatigue issue. Almost like we have to condition the panel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
That's nice to know, but I'm guessing that you're under some NDA that stops you from saying anything more on exactly what the issue is or when they think they'll have it resolved.

If I've read things correctly... It's not due to heat. The panels are not organic. It's likely affected most/all Sony SXRD projectors. They've mitigated it somewhat in the 5000ES, but since there's no solution yet, it's not immune either. And no one is saying if they plan to fix our 1100ES projectors when a solution is found since they're not publicly admitting that there even is an issue. Do I have any of that wrong?
12GAGE is offline  
post #13617 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 08:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
So anyone, who asks Sony questions, including consumers, about the alleged drop in contrast winds up on an NDA list? Were they visited by men in black? Man Sony must be good at keeping things quiet from all.

It sounds like a very odd NDA, where one is allowed to talk about the contrast loss problem, how to help avoid
the problem and that there has been remedial measures taken. However, one is strictly forbidden to talk about the specifics of the remedial measures. Very unusual form a legal standpoint.

If this issue was very widespread (and yes not only would I want to know, but I would take action), you would think major leaks would have occurred as to the cause and remedial measures taken. It's these remedial measures that would open the door to possible liability and feasibility of repair or credit to another model. i.e. the lawsuits relative to the SXRD green blobs.

If many people are in the know, but remain silent, it is really quite the injustice for us consumers. We need someone to come forward with the hard facts and measures taken to repair, or we are screwed at finding a remedy. If this were proven, they should give us a huge credit to a 5000.
I have not signed a NDA, but I have gotten confidential info from someone inside Sony and I will not discuss anything like this info in a public forum.

And I am also a calibrator and I have owned 30+ projectors personally and tested at least the same amount. I have also some pro calibrators as friends and one of them calibrates and recalibrates hundreds of projectors each year and he is sitting on a huge database about the degradation of Sony SXRD panels as this has happened since the release many years ago.

I have only calibrated personally for a year or so, but I have calibrated and recalibrated some Sony projectors and all of them shows problems to different degrees. The last one I measured was a VW500 and it had dropped from around 10000:1 to 4000:1 on/off in 950 hours, the gamma also had to be set to 2.6 to get anywhere near 2.3-2.4. Set to 2.2 it was all the way down to 1.5 with an average at 1.8, not much depth in the image with that gamma curve... The owner used 2.2 gamma and was pleased with that and he was amazed how the picture changed with calibration. I could of corse not do anything with the contrast loss.
DavidHir and kohe321 like this.

Regards
Andreas
My Homecinema
Calibration software: Lightspace and Calman. TPG: Murideo Fresco SIX-G
Meters: Klein K-10 A and Jeti 1501. THX II certified.
Andreas21 is online now  
post #13618 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 09:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
G-Rex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 1,502
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Andreas, what was the least contrast drop you have measured personally or was told by your pro calibrator friends with hours of approx 1000 hours + ? How often do you come across an 1100 that shows minimal contrast loss?
G-Rex is offline  
post #13619 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 10:12 AM
Member
 
stephen_bj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Nice setup you have there.

Theater Room Oppo BDP-105DJPL, Sony VPL-520SE, SMX 120" 2.37:1 screen, ISCO ANAMORPHIC LENS
(Just in as of 29th June 2016) XTZ 3x12 SubX2, M6X3, S5 X4, S2X4, MX-160, Byston 9BSST THX, Bryston 9BS, Only changed speakers and added an Amp, else the same as above
(Coming soon) Steinway and Lyndoff 2xS-15, 3xIW-26V, 2xModel LS
stephen_bj is offline  
post #13620 of 14106 Old 03-05-2016, 10:13 AM
Member
 
stephen_bj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I just got the VPL 520ES. My friend has a 60 and was going to upgrade to a 320, but I am telling him to upgrade it to a 520 because it has HDR, higher Lux and higher contrast. Should I tell him not to upgrade yet and wait? Thanks.

Theater Room Oppo BDP-105DJPL, Sony VPL-520SE, SMX 120" 2.37:1 screen, ISCO ANAMORPHIC LENS
(Just in as of 29th June 2016) XTZ 3x12 SubX2, M6X3, S5 X4, S2X4, MX-160, Byston 9BSST THX, Bryston 9BS, Only changed speakers and added an Amp, else the same as above
(Coming soon) Steinway and Lyndoff 2xS-15, 3xIW-26V, 2xModel LS
stephen_bj is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Casio Rs 232 Adapter Catalog Category Projectors Accessories , Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off